Proof How Your Religion Could Be Made Up

[PostmodernProph]

They are not eyewitness accounts.

you keep saying that as if it weren't made up.....why?....

 

[sealybobo]

They are not eyewitness accounts.

you keep saying that as if it weren't made up.....why?....

Because the people who wrote the bible in 1600 didn't see it happen. Look and fucking read 1 & 2 on whynogod.com or just fucking google "who wrote the bible" and see peter Paul john and Luke did not write the bibles. They didn't even tell the authors what happened while they wrote it down. If you think they did you're delusional. Look at what most experts believe who and when the bibles were written and get back to me. And don't go to your christian sites. They are the ones lying to you lady not me. Why would I lie? You dont put money in my collection plate and I promise I'm not the devil. Your priest is. Run!

 

[sealybobo]

They are not eyewitness accounts.

you keep saying that as if it weren't made up.....why?....

If you really investigate it you'll see the bibles are hearsay. All of it. Do you know what hearsay is? I hope you refute 1 & 2 on whynogod. Read it. Or would that be blasphemous?

 

[westwall]

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

There is zero direct evidence for the Big Bang. Cosmology can take us to within 500,000 years or so of the event. The best mathematicians, and the best physicists, and the best astronomers have been working on that particular problem for 75 years now. These are the best and the brightest that mankind has produced in a 1000 years. They have been able to track down proxies, and other forms of indirect evidence for this event.

And we still believe that it happened. That all of the universe that we know of originated from a singularity the size of a proton. Do you know what a proton is? It is part of the nucleus of an atom..... In other words ALL of the matter that exists in this universe....ALL OF IT......originated from a point smaller than the period at the end of this sentence.

That is the theory that the best and the brightest have come up with. You are quibbling over the existence of a man who's followers founded a religion, who we have direct evidence of 60 years after the fact, and who existed in a time when there were almost no people who could read or write?

Do you have any idea how stupid that statement is? Just as I believe that the Big Bang occurred, and that all of this universe erupted from that singularity, I also believe that Jesus was a real person. Of that there is NO doubt. Whether he is the Son of God or not is for religious people to discover for themselves. But that he existed is not in question.

To say he didn't is to ignore the history that does remain (and remember dear bobo, most of everything that has ever been written has been lost or destroyed) and to ignore the very nature of mankind, and how we interacts with others.

There are no absolute truths in science; all laws, theories and conclusions can become obsolete if they are found in contradiction with new evidence. However, ascientific theory is the highest honour any scientific principle can obtain, for they comprise all the evidence, laws and models relevant to an observed phenomena.

God isn't a theory because you have to have some scientific evidence for it to be that. All god is IS a hypothesis. The big bang is a scientific theory. Could it be wrong? Sure. But so far you can't even give us one shred of evidence for your god's existence. Pathetic. You just made it up. Today we don't get killed for calling you out on this but we did get killed for thousands of years. Why do you think the lie is so embedded into your brain? Your society/parents put it there. If we all believed in unicorns for thousands of years you'd be on USMB arguing for unicorns.

To be sure, and yet you ignore well established human behavior, and well known historical facts, that support the existence of a person known as Jesus. I'm agnostic silly boy, so don't go lumping me in with the religious folks. I AM a scientist however, and there is more evidence for the existence of Jesus than there is for the Big Bang.

As far as the existence of a God, however, there is neither evidence for, or against that too, is a fact.

You're half right.

Oh and I'm an agnostic athiest. I don't know if a creator created everything I just doubt it. And as for christianity I'm an atheist.

Either way if they are right you and I are going to hell. Lol

There's no such thing. You are either a theist, an atheist, or simply acknowledge that there is no evidence either way. And an agnostic truly doesn't give a poo, and treats everyone with respect.

 

[westwall]

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

There is zero direct evidence for the Big Bang. Cosmology can take us to within 500,000 years or so of the event. The best mathematicians, and the best physicists, and the best astronomers have been working on that particular problem for 75 years now. These are the best and the brightest that mankind has produced in a 1000 years. They have been able to track down proxies, and other forms of indirect evidence for this event.

And we still believe that it happened. That all of the universe that we know of originated from a singularity the size of a proton. Do you know what a proton is? It is part of the nucleus of an atom..... In other words ALL of the matter that exists in this universe....ALL OF IT......originated from a point smaller than the period at the end of this sentence.

That is the theory that the best and the brightest have come up with. You are quibbling over the existence of a man who's followers founded a religion, who we have direct evidence of 60 years after the fact, and who existed in a time when there were almost no people who could read or write?

Do you have any idea how stupid that statement is? Just as I believe that the Big Bang occurred, and that all of this universe erupted from that singularity, I also believe that Jesus was a real person. Of that there is NO doubt. Whether he is the Son of God or not is for religious people to discover for themselves. But that he existed is not in question.

To say he didn't is to ignore the history that does remain (and remember dear bobo, most of everything that has ever been written has been lost or destroyed) and to ignore the very nature of mankind, and how we interacts with others.

There are no absolute truths in science; all laws, theories and conclusions can become obsolete if they are found in contradiction with new evidence. However, ascientific theory is the highest honour any scientific principle can obtain, for they comprise all the evidence, laws and models relevant to an observed phenomena.

God isn't a theory because you have to have some scientific evidence for it to be that. All god is IS a hypothesis. The big bang is a scientific theory. Could it be wrong? Sure. But so far you can't even give us one shred of evidence for your god's existence. Pathetic. You just made it up. Today we don't get killed for calling you out on this but we did get killed for thousands of years. Why do you think the lie is so embedded into your brain? Your society/parents put it there. If we all believed in unicorns for thousands of years you'd be on USMB arguing for unicorns.

To be sure, and yet you ignore well established human behavior, and well known historical facts, that support the existence of a person known as Jesus. I'm agnostic silly boy, so don't go lumping me in with the religious folks. I AM a scientist however, and there is more evidence for the existence of Jesus than there is for the Big Bang.

As far as the existence of a God, however, there is neither evidence for, or against that too, is a fact.

Go to whynogod.com and see plenty of "evidence" that proves gods made up. Watch the cosmos. Youtube Carl Sagan or find a podcast of atheists explaining it.

There really is no good evidence for even Jesus. Could be completely made up. I assume he existed but was just a man and he probably didn't say or do half the shit they say he did.

No, there isn't. It is opinion and nothing more. What if God created the Big Bang, setting everything in motion, with a set of natural laws in place, and then went away? Merely checking in from time to time to check on his experiment, but otherwise not interacting in any way? Provide evidence that that could not be the way the universe was created.

 

[westwall]

They are not eyewitness accounts.

you keep saying that as if it weren't made up.....why?....

Because the people who wrote the bible in 1600 didn't see it happen. Look and fucking read 1 & 2 on whynogod.com or just fucking google "who wrote the bible" and see peter Paul john and Luke did not write the bibles. They didn't even tell the authors what happened while they wrote it down. If you think they did you're delusional. Look at what most experts believe who and when the bibles were written and get back to me. And don't go to your christian sites. They are the ones lying to you lady not me. Why would I lie? You dont put money in my collection plate and I promise I'm not the devil. Your priest is. Run!

Wow, you really don't know the slightest bit of history do you? The Bible is made up of two books, the Old and the New Testaments. The Old testament was written approximately 1400 BCE. The oldest surviving manuscript is I believe the Dead Sea Scrolls, of 200 BCE but I could be wrong on that. The New Testament was written in approximately 45-95 AD. The oldest known surviving example is around 125 AD and contains a small portion of the book of John IIRC, it is written on papyrus.

The oldest known complete Bible with both Old and New Testaments is a codex dated around 300-359 AD. The 1400ish Bible is the first one PRINTED on a printing machine, it's also called the Gutenberg Bible and was printed in latin. The 1600's Bible was the first one printed in English and is called the King James Bible because of that. The book has been around a real, real long time.

Before you start trying to teach others, you had better learn the very basics.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If you'd like I can link to the work of an archaeologist who found a burial tomb in Jerusalem that was covered by stone a 12 foot diameter, 2 feet thick that had sheared off the metal bolts securing it over the tomb. The base of the bolts are still in the wall and it's estimated you'd have to apply an 80 ton force to shear off the bolts flush with the wall.

Oh, no. Not again.
Discovery Channel?

Listen, just for reason. If, IF somebody could give a solid proof something could be the tomb of Jesus, the pope of the catholic church would be there within 2 hours with a heli.
Everything else is a bullshit story of some movie makers, religious book authors and TV evangelists making money out of the, say, not so bright people.
Now, this tomb was discovered in the 80's, right?
You know, whatever my opinion about the Vatikan and its male citizens in womens clothes is, this guys are knowledgeable to the bone about this part of history. They own one of the worlds largest libraries, mostly connected to this issue. They read and speak latin as well as hebrew or aramaic, because it is their own goddamn history.

So, no matter what your bible TV or other TV sensation channel airs: as long as nobody in the Vatikan jumps, it is an absolute zero occurance.

Archaeology News Flash <[email protected]>
6/24/14

to me

ARCHAEOLOGY NEWSFLASH NO. 413a


Frank, this news is from Jonathan Gray -
www.beforeus.com You authorized this mailing
when you requested your free report on our
web-site or a friend enrolled you. See the end
of this email for removal directions.


THE MYSTERY OF THE IRON PEG

David was stunned.

He stared at it. Then shook his head.

Finally, he looked me in the eye and said, “Jonathan,
this iron peg is the greatest archaeological mystery
of all time.”

Then he paused, carefully measuring his words:
“…unless Matthew's eyewitness account is true.”

Please read this amazing report of our Jerusalem
expedition and tell me what you think.

SOLVING THE IRON PEG MYSTERY

So, Frank, how would you explain this very strange
discovery we have made in Jerusalem?

It concerns a tomb and an iron peg.

Did we guess right - or is there something we have
missed?

You see, some very precise clues (for future
archaeologists?) were given in the New Testament
account of the crucifixion of Jesus in 31 AD.

We are informed in the writings that Jesus was
crucified:

(a) “outside the city” (Hebrews 13:12; John 19:20)
(b) at a place called “the Skull” (Matthew 27:33;
Mark 15:22; Luke 23:33; John 19:17)

SKULL HILL

There is only one place around Jerusalem which has
borne, and still bears, the name Skull Hill. It is
just outside the North Wall, about 250 yards
north-east of the Damascus Gate. A portion of this
hill bears a striking resemblance to a human skull.

It is also the traditional site of burials for
Moslems, Jews and Christians.

Here it was, according to local tradition, that
criminals were stoned to death. In the Mishna this
place is called Beth ha-Sekelah, literally, “House
of Stoning”.

This was the recognized place of public execution
for Jewish criminals.

As late as the beginning of the 20th century, devout
Jews would spit at the hill, throw stones and curse
the “destroyer of their nation”.

It is such a site that the Roman authorities would
have selected for executions.

“OUTSIDE” THE CITY

Skull Hill is just a short distance outside the
Damascus Gate, the only direct exit from the
Castle of Antonine (the alleged place of Jesus’
mock trial).

Recent archaeological opinion also holds that
the Damascus Gate, which today marks the northern
boundary of the Old City, likewise marks the
northern boundary of Jerusalem in the 30s, the
time of Jesus’ crucifixion.

All this tends to add weight to the feasibility
of Skull Hill, outside the wall, advocated by
Otto Thenius (1842), Colonel Couder (1875) and
General Gordon (1883), being the actual site.

CRUCIFIXION PLATFIORM UNCOVERED

During excavations from January, 1979 to January,
1982, in front of the escarpment of which Skull
Hill is a part, a crucifixion platform was
uncovered.

The excavation crew found four squarish holes,
each 12 to 13 inches wide, cut into the
bedrock — holes which, apparently, had once held
crosses.

“A VERY GREAT STONE”

Continued clearing of the area exposed a portion
of a large, flat rock, which was a little less
than two feet thick. I would like you to remember
that measurement. We shall meet it again.

The exposed edge was curved, somewhat like that
of a large, thick, rounded table-top.

As the men cleared away more dirt and debris,
it became apparent that the stone was enormous.
They stopped digging. The dirt and debris piled
over it was ten feet deep.

It would be several years later before its true
dimensions were to be determined by sub-surface
radar from above the ground.

The diameter was found to be 13 feet 2 inches!
Thirteen feet two inches.

Remember that measurement also, as we shall meet
it again.

A building had apparently been constructed
at one time to enclose BOTH the crucifixion
site AND this great, round stone.

How was this stone connected with a crucifixion
site?

NEARBY – A TOMB

The New Testament states that near the crucifixion
site was a garden which contained the newly cut out
tomb of a wealthy man, Joseph of Arimathea.

And that the owner of this tomb, who had witnessed
the crucifixion of Jesus, was so moved that he went
to the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, to ask for
the body of Jesus to be placed in his – Joseph’s
– own unused tomb. This request was granted.

Three things close together:

1. the Skull Hill crucifixion site
2. a surrounding garden, and
3. a nearby tomb.

And one might note that Skull Hill does contain
a large complex of Jewish tombs dating from the
First and Second Temple periods - and in
particular, one known as the “Garden Tomb”.

In 1867, in the same cliff face close to the
crucifixion-site, a landowner was digging a
cistern on his property, when he discovered a
tomb cut into the cliff face.

As with the crucifixion site, this tomb was
beneath the current ground level, covered in the
debris of many centuries.

Several cisterns were also unearthed at this
spot. These suggested that an olive grove
could have existed here.

One of the cisterns was very large — and it
dated back to the first century or earlier.

Lying some 12 feet below the pavement against
the east wall, it could hold about 200,000
gallons of water, sufficient to keep a large
plantation green throughout the eight dry
months of the year.

In 1924, a very fine wine press was excavated
near the present main entrance to the garden.
This indicated that there had been a vineyard
nearby.

Of course the discovery of a tomb in this
vicinity could hardly be described as
sensational. Many tombs had been found in
this large, ancient burial area of Jerusalem.
But this tomb was of special interest.

When a tomb is seen to be unusual (and we shall
address that shortly), and is seen to be
adjacent to an ancient execution site, as well
as in the setting of a garden, such a
combination of factors is not to be taken
lightly.

In 1883, General Gordon, the notable British
soldier, came to the area — and became
convinced that the “skull face” was Jesus’
crucifixion site.

This prompted him to go looking for a
tomb that was “near at hand”, as indicated
in the Bible.

And just a few hundred feet away was this tomb,
today known as the Garden Tomb.

Although first discovered in 1867, it was not
excavated until 1891. At that time, Dr Conrad
Schick prepared a report with diagrams, which
was published in the Palestine Exploration
Fund Quarterly of April, 1892.

“FIRST CENTURY”

Once excavation of the tomb was completed,
characteristics were noted which did prove it
to be dated to the first century CE, the time
of Jesus.

Dame Kathleen Kenyon, the famous British
archaeologist, said in 1970, “It is a typical
tomb of about the first century.”

EIGHT VITAL CLUES

Very well, then, we have here today a first
century tomb. But that is a far cry from
identifying it as the tomb of the biblical
Joseph of Arimathea who gave his personal
tomb for the burial of Jesus.

An archaeologist wants evidence. Is there
any way the ancient accounts might assist us?
Indeed, in those ancient writings I was able
to find eight clues.

According to the biblical reporters John,
Matthew and Luke, the tomb of Joseph had
special characteristics:

1. It was near the place of
crucifixion. (John 19:42)
2. It was in a garden. (v. 41)
3. It was carved out of the rock.
(Matthew 27:60)
4. It was a rich man’s tomb. (v. 57)
5. One could look into the tomb from
outside. (John 20:5)
6. There was standing room for a number
of persons. (Luke 24:1-4)
7. It was a new tomb and not an old tomb
renewed. (John 19:41)
8. The tomb was closed by rolling a GREAT
stone over the entrance. (Matthew 27:60)

In every one of these particulars, the tomb
discovered in 1867 matched the biblical
description. It fitted like a glove.

A RICH MAN’S TOMB

Entering the tomb, one is impressed with the size.
Certainly, only a rich man could have afforded a
tomb such as this.

Inside the tomb, to the right, was a spot for the
owner of the tomb to be laid — and close to that,
another spot, possibly for his wife. To the left,
a large room was cut out for mourners to stand.

BUT USED BY SOMEONE ELSE

But this tomb was NOT used by the person or
persons for whom it had been cut out.

Inside the tomb, one section carved out of the
rock to fit one man, had clearly been enlarged
for somebody else —someone who was taller than
the man for whom the tomb had been measured.

This enlarged section indicated that NOT the
owner, but some other person, was laid in this
rich man’s tomb.

The ancient record states that Joseph, a member
of the Sanhedrin, took the body of Jesus and
“laid it in his own new tomb”, “wherein was
never man yet laid.” (John 19:41)

And that is exactly what we discovered - this
spot in the tomb that was enlarged for
someone’s feet. Another link in the evidence?

A “NEW” TOMB

The existence of the cavity in the receptacle
at the tomb’s north-east corner, and the absence
of this cavity in the south-east receptacle, as
well as the unfinished groove toward the north
end of the west wall, show clearly that this
tomb was never completed.

A “GREAT STONE”

Something else. The record states that Joseph,
after placing the body in his own new tomb,
“rolled a great stone to the door of the tomb,
and departed.” (Matthew 27:60)

It goes out of its way to say “great” stone.
This clue, that it was a GREAT stone, is another
evidence that the owner of the tomb was a rich
man.

Someone else was also interested in this tomb.

The Jewish chief priests and Pharisees went to
Pilate, the Roman governor, saying:

“Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while
he was yet alive, After three days I will rise
again.

"Command therefore that the tomb be made
sure until the third day, lest his disciples
come by night, and steal him away, and say unto
the people, He is risen from the dead, so the
last error shall be worse than the first.

"Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your
way, make it as sure as ye can. So they went,
and made the tomb sure, sealing the stone, and
setting a watch.” (vv.62-66)

THE MISSING SEAL STONE

And that brings us to the seal stone.

Immediately in front of the tomb is a stone
trench, or trough. This was for the rolling
of a stone to seal the doorway.

At the left end is an incline. The stone was
rolled onto the trough at this end.

In 1995, my archaeological team in Jerusalem
measured this trough which was built to
channel the rolling stone. We found this trough
to be — wait for it — about two feet wide!

At the right hand end of the trough is a large
stone block, positioned to prevent further
movement of the seal-stone toward the right.

Above that, on the right hand face of the tomb
itself, a ridge was cut in the rock, which would
block the stone from rolling further in that
direction.

In the face of the tomb were two evidences which
showed that a very, very large seal-stone was
once used to seal this tomb.

1. In the right side of the tomb face, team
member Dr Nathan Meyer had on an earlier visit
pointed out a hole which was pierced into the
cliff face. The hole held the oxidized remains
of an iron shaft. This has since been removed,
but the hole remains.

2. On the left hand side of the tomb face,
another hole had been pierced into the rock for
the insertion of a metal shaft, to prevent the
seal-stone from being rolled to the left and
the tomb being opened.

On October 20, 1995, team members Dr David
Wagner and Peter Mutton measured across the
tomb face from the shaft hole on the left to
the ridge at the right. The distance was
discovered to be — you guessed it — precisely
13 feet 2 inches!

This shows that the seal-stone was, indeed,
“a very great stone” - over twice the diameter
of any other seal-stone found in Israel! To
our knowledge, the largest seal-stone
previously found was 5 feet 6 inches.

This and the size of the buried stone at the
nearby crucifixion site were a PERFECT MATCH.

MYSTERY OF THE IRON SHAFT

Now, are you ready for the mystery of the
iron shaft? Hold onto your seat...

We photographed and video-taped the spot where
the Romans drove the iron shaft into the stone
face of the tomb at the left edge of where the
13 foot seal-stone would have been.

They had done this in an attempt to prevent the
stone from being rolled to the side and the
tomb being opened.

The record states that the stone was “sealed”.
(Matthew 27:60,66)

The metal shaft on the left which held the stone
in place was about two fingers in thickness.

It would be impossible to bend this shaft, much
less snap it off, simply by pushing the seal-
stone against it.

You see, to move the great stone even one inch,
the shaft must first be taken out.

However, when we examined the hole that held
the metal shaft, we found that the shaft was
still in there! What was left of it, that is.

It was sheared off, level with the wall.

The appearance of the metal was consistent with
its having been sheared off when struck with a
tremendous force from the right-hand side.

According to an engineer, the shear strength
of this peg was approximately 60 to 80 tons.

To put it another way, a metal peg of such
thickness would withstand 60 to 80 tons’ pressure
before it actually snapped off.

Imagine, if you can, ten tip trucks all
compressed together - or all the materials for
two brick houses squeezed together - and suddenly
dropped onto the iron peg.

That is the pressure required to snap the
iron peg.

Read that again, please. It is vital.

However, being soft and malleable, the peg
might have taken more than 60 to 80 tons’
pressure, bending first before it sheared
right off.

The engineer confirmed my conclusion.

“I could see that the end had been torn slightly
sideways - perhaps a quarter inch - to the left,
even though it was now rusted
some,” he said.

“It was an incredible sight, to witness what
had happened. Accomplished by moving the
stone in one simple move.”

He calculated that the stone itself weighed
around 13.8 tons.

Do you get this? It would be impossible,
humanly speaking, to snap off that metal shaft
by pushing from a dead stop. You see, there was
no leverage.

But the fact is, the seal-stone has gone.

Someone did push the stone aside without taking
out the metal peg... What kind of person or power
was it?

The disciple Matthew informs us that the power
involved was non-human: He says, “... the angel
of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and
rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon
it.

"His countenance was like lightning, and his
raiment white as snow: And for fear of him the
keepers did shake, and became as dead men.”
(Matthew 28:2-4)

He claims there were witnesses to this - the Roman
guards themselves.

And what is the archaeological evidence?

It is the type of evidence that is easy to read.
It shows that the stone was moved with great speed,
by some colossal force WITHOUT TAKING OUT THE METAL
ROD.

CRITICS EMBARRASSED

For several years after I first reported this
discovery, critics asserted that we were mistaken –
that this metal spike was no more than a piece of
shrapnel from an exploded shell which hit the wall
during the 1967 war.

Of course the skeptic's argument sounded plausible.

Then, early in 2004, the metal was tested by the
Israeli Antiquities Authority (IAA).

Eventually, IAA archaeologist Yehiel Zelinger wrote
a short article stating that the metal object found
in the wall of the Garden Tomb was consistent with
metal pins used in Roman construction.

He stated that samples taken from the metal object
were tested at Hebrew University and shown to contain
both iron and lead.

It was common in ancient times to set metal pins in
molten lead. This would make them easier to drive
into solid objects.

While these tests do not determine the date of the
metal object, they do show a consistency with metal
pins used to construct the Coliseum in Rome and with
those found in other Roman period sites.

Bottom line… the findings are consistent with my
conclusion that this metal pin was used by the Romans
to seal the Garden Tomb.

The metal pin is NOT SHRAPNEL from an exploded shell.
It definitely IS of ancient origin.

The evidence also shows that the stone was moved with
great speed, by some colossal super-human force which
did NOT REQUIRE TAKING OUT THE METAL ROD.

Do you grasp the significance of this? Firstly, such
a feat is unexplainable by human action. Secondly, it
did happen.

Like it or not, the physical evidence stares us in
the face.

I have asked for any person on earth to explain this.
Critics have fallen deathly silent.

But this question demands an answer:

That sheared-off metal shaft still stuck in the wall –
could this be evidence of a supernatural opening of
the tomb?

Pardon me, please. I am a hard-nosed archaeologist.

But this question must be asked: What led Jewish
historian Pinchas Lapide to declare that the
Resurrection of Jesus Christ was a historical fact?

If there's a more logical solution, I'm interested.
But, remember, I'm interested only in facts.

Please don't give me any philosophical nonsense like
"It has never happened to anyone I know, therefore it
could never happen." Or I've never seen a dead man
rise, therefore it is impossible.

Simply review the above archaeological evidence again.
Then let your common sense guide you.

If this has whetted your appetite for more scientific
discovery, you may like to pursue this further.

Here’s a good starting point:
Ticking Bomb 3

Well, Frank, may this upcoming week be a good one
for you.

Best regards,
Jonathan Gray
[email protected]

 

[sealybobo]

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

There is zero direct evidence for the Big Bang. Cosmology can take us to within 500,000 years or so of the event. The best mathematicians, and the best physicists, and the best astronomers have been working on that particular problem for 75 years now. These are the best and the brightest that mankind has produced in a 1000 years. They have been able to track down proxies, and other forms of indirect evidence for this event.

And we still believe that it happened. That all of the universe that we know of originated from a singularity the size of a proton. Do you know what a proton is? It is part of the nucleus of an atom..... In other words ALL of the matter that exists in this universe....ALL OF IT......originated from a point smaller than the period at the end of this sentence.

That is the theory that the best and the brightest have come up with. You are quibbling over the existence of a man who's followers founded a religion, who we have direct evidence of 60 years after the fact, and who existed in a time when there were almost no people who could read or write?

Do you have any idea how stupid that statement is? Just as I believe that the Big Bang occurred, and that all of this universe erupted from that singularity, I also believe that Jesus was a real person. Of that there is NO doubt. Whether he is the Son of God or not is for religious people to discover for themselves. But that he existed is not in question.

To say he didn't is to ignore the history that does remain (and remember dear bobo, most of everything that has ever been written has been lost or destroyed) and to ignore the very nature of mankind, and how we interacts with others.

There are no absolute truths in science; all laws, theories and conclusions can become obsolete if they are found in contradiction with new evidence. However, ascientific theory is the highest honour any scientific principle can obtain, for they comprise all the evidence, laws and models relevant to an observed phenomena.

God isn't a theory because you have to have some scientific evidence for it to be that. All god is IS a hypothesis. The big bang is a scientific theory. Could it be wrong? Sure. But so far you can't even give us one shred of evidence for your god's existence. Pathetic. You just made it up. Today we don't get killed for calling you out on this but we did get killed for thousands of years. Why do you think the lie is so embedded into your brain? Your society/parents put it there. If we all believed in unicorns for thousands of years you'd be on USMB arguing for unicorns.

To be sure, and yet you ignore well established human behavior, and well known historical facts, that support the existence of a person known as Jesus. I'm agnostic silly boy, so don't go lumping me in with the religious folks. I AM a scientist however, and there is more evidence for the existence of Jesus than there is for the Big Bang.

As far as the existence of a God, however, there is neither evidence for, or against that too, is a fact.

You're half right.

Oh and I'm an agnostic athiest. I don't know if a creator created everything I just doubt it. And as for christianity I'm an atheist.

Either way if they are right you and I are going to hell. Lol

There's no such thing. You are either a theist, an atheist, or simply acknowledge that there is no evidence either way. And an agnostic truly doesn't give a poo, and treats everyone with respect.

There is evidence we made it up (athiest) but could there be a creator? Can't say 100% no(agnostic)

Get it? I'm just more skeptical then you.

There are also no theists because they don't know 100% sure there is. So they are actually agnostic theists. Unless god visited them how can they KNOW? They can't. Same way I can't know there isnt. I'd have to be a god myself to know. Right?

 

[sealybobo]

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

There is zero direct evidence for the Big Bang. Cosmology can take us to within 500,000 years or so of the event. The best mathematicians, and the best physicists, and the best astronomers have been working on that particular problem for 75 years now. These are the best and the brightest that mankind has produced in a 1000 years. They have been able to track down proxies, and other forms of indirect evidence for this event.

And we still believe that it happened. That all of the universe that we know of originated from a singularity the size of a proton. Do you know what a proton is? It is part of the nucleus of an atom..... In other words ALL of the matter that exists in this universe....ALL OF IT......originated from a point smaller than the period at the end of this sentence.

That is the theory that the best and the brightest have come up with. You are quibbling over the existence of a man who's followers founded a religion, who we have direct evidence of 60 years after the fact, and who existed in a time when there were almost no people who could read or write?

Do you have any idea how stupid that statement is? Just as I believe that the Big Bang occurred, and that all of this universe erupted from that singularity, I also believe that Jesus was a real person. Of that there is NO doubt. Whether he is the Son of God or not is for religious people to discover for themselves. But that he existed is not in question.

To say he didn't is to ignore the history that does remain (and remember dear bobo, most of everything that has ever been written has been lost or destroyed) and to ignore the very nature of mankind, and how we interacts with others.

There are no absolute truths in science; all laws, theories and conclusions can become obsolete if they are found in contradiction with new evidence. However, ascientific theory is the highest honour any scientific principle can obtain, for they comprise all the evidence, laws and models relevant to an observed phenomena.

God isn't a theory because you have to have some scientific evidence for it to be that. All god is IS a hypothesis. The big bang is a scientific theory. Could it be wrong? Sure. But so far you can't even give us one shred of evidence for your god's existence. Pathetic. You just made it up. Today we don't get killed for calling you out on this but we did get killed for thousands of years. Why do you think the lie is so embedded into your brain? Your society/parents put it there. If we all believed in unicorns for thousands of years you'd be on USMB arguing for unicorns.

To be sure, and yet you ignore well established human behavior, and well known historical facts, that support the existence of a person known as Jesus. I'm agnostic silly boy, so don't go lumping me in with the religious folks. I AM a scientist however, and there is more evidence for the existence of Jesus than there is for the Big Bang.

As far as the existence of a God, however, there is neither evidence for, or against that too, is a fact.

Go to whynogod.com and see plenty of "evidence" that proves gods made up. Watch the cosmos. Youtube Carl Sagan or find a podcast of atheists explaining it.

There really is no good evidence for even Jesus. Could be completely made up. I assume he existed but was just a man and he probably didn't say or do half the shit they say he did.

No, there isn't. It is opinion and nothing more. What if God created the Big Bang, setting everything in motion, with a set of natural laws in place, and then went away? Merely checking in from time to time to check on his experiment, but otherwise not interacting in any way? Provide evidence that that could not be the way the universe was created.

I can't. You just give me no reason to believe that so I'm skeptical. Agnostic atheist.

 

[sealybobo]

They are not eyewitness accounts.

you keep saying that as if it weren't made up.....why?....

Because the people who wrote the bible in 1600 didn't see it happen. Look and fucking read 1 & 2 on whynogod.com or just fucking google "who wrote the bible" and see peter Paul john and Luke did not write the bibles. They didn't even tell the authors what happened while they wrote it down. If you think they did you're delusional. Look at what most experts believe who and when the bibles were written and get back to me. And don't go to your christian sites. They are the ones lying to you lady not me. Why would I lie? You dont put money in my collection plate and I promise I'm not the devil. Your priest is. Run!

Wow, you really don't know the slightest bit of history do you? The Bible is made up of two books, the Old and the New Testaments. The Old testament was written approximately 1400 BCE. The oldest surviving manuscript is I believe the Dead Sea Scrolls, of 200 BCE but I could be wrong on that. The New Testament was written in approximately 45-95 AD. The oldest known surviving example is around 125 AD and contains a small portion of the book of John IIRC, it is written on papyrus.

The oldest known complete Bible with both Old and New Testaments is a codex dated around 300-359 AD. The 1400ish Bible is the first one PRINTED on a printing machine, it's also called the Gutenberg Bible and was printed in latin. The 1600's Bible was the first one printed in English and is called the King James Bible because of that. The book has been around a real, real long time.

Before you start trying to teach others, you had better learn the very basics.

Wrong! They use to say the OT was written 1400 years bc but now they believe it was 500bc. AFTER Homer? All made up.

You sure your an agnostic or are you trying to pretend to be a neutral observer?

The more you learn the more you'll start leaning towards athiest.

 

[sealybobo]

They are not eyewitness accounts.

you keep saying that as if it weren't made up.....why?....

Because the people who wrote the bible in 1600 didn't see it happen. Look and fucking read 1 & 2 on whynogod.com or just fucking google "who wrote the bible" and see peter Paul john and Luke did not write the bibles. They didn't even tell the authors what happened while they wrote it down. If you think they did you're delusional. Look at what most experts believe who and when the bibles were written and get back to me. And don't go to your christian sites. They are the ones lying to you lady not me. Why would I lie? You dont put money in my collection plate and I promise I'm not the devil. Your priest is. Run!

Wow, you really don't know the slightest bit of history do you? The Bible is made up of two books, the Old and the New Testaments. The Old testament was written approximately 1400 BCE. The oldest surviving manuscript is I believe the Dead Sea Scrolls, of 200 BCE but I could be wrong on that. The New Testament was written in approximately 45-95 AD. The oldest known surviving example is around 125 AD and contains a small portion of the book of John IIRC, it is written on papyrus.

The oldest known complete Bible with both Old and New Testaments is a codex dated around 300-359 AD. The 1400ish Bible is the first one PRINTED on a printing machine, it's also called the Gutenberg Bible and was printed in latin. The 1600's Bible was the first one printed in English and is called the King James Bible because of that. The book has been around a real, real long time.

Before you start trying to teach others, you had better learn the very basics.

Do you take everything you THINK you know as gospel?

 

[sealybobo]

Just because people in a new growing cult were persecuted for their beliefs does not even mean they saw Jesus do what he supposedly did. Look at how much you guys believe and you didn't see it for yourself. The ancient Greeks who were suckered into this new cult were very superstitious and gullible. Some Christian came up to them and told them all the Greek gods were not real, there is only one true god and if you don't accept him you'll go to hell. They, like modern day Christians, require no proof. Either they want to believe it or they don't want to go to hell or a mixture of both.

And the funny thing is I use to believe this crap. Nothing bad happened to change my mind. I just listened to the facts. I learned the history of Christianity and all other religions. For example, when you learn the history of Christianity in 1500ad, how can you believe anything those churches and societies handed down to us? I'll tell you how. You would have to stop using your brain. You would have to be brainwashed.

I know a lot of theists think, "how could such a lie spread and get so popular?". Well just look at Islam or Mormons. No difference.

Now go ahead and explain away why your fairy tale is real. But provide no evidence. Just hypothesize about how their must be a creator because you can't imagine there isn't one. Then give him a personality and tell us how he visited you. Dopes.

There is zero direct evidence for the Big Bang. Cosmology can take us to within 500,000 years or so of the event. The best mathematicians, and the best physicists, and the best astronomers have been working on that particular problem for 75 years now. These are the best and the brightest that mankind has produced in a 1000 years. They have been able to track down proxies, and other forms of indirect evidence for this event.

And we still believe that it happened. That all of the universe that we know of originated from a singularity the size of a proton. Do you know what a proton is? It is part of the nucleus of an atom..... In other words ALL of the matter that exists in this universe....ALL OF IT......originated from a point smaller than the period at the end of this sentence.

That is the theory that the best and the brightest have come up with. You are quibbling over the existence of a man who's followers founded a religion, who we have direct evidence of 60 years after the fact, and who existed in a time when there were almost no people who could read or write?

Do you have any idea how stupid that statement is? Just as I believe that the Big Bang occurred, and that all of this universe erupted from that singularity, I also believe that Jesus was a real person. Of that there is NO doubt. Whether he is the Son of God or not is for religious people to discover for themselves. But that he existed is not in question.

To say he didn't is to ignore the history that does remain (and remember dear bobo, most of everything that has ever been written has been lost or destroyed) and to ignore the very nature of mankind, and how we interacts with others.

There are no absolute truths in science; all laws, theories and conclusions can become obsolete if they are found in contradiction with new evidence. However, ascientific theory is the highest honour any scientific principle can obtain, for they comprise all the evidence, laws and models relevant to an observed phenomena.

God isn't a theory because you have to have some scientific evidence for it to be that. All god is IS a hypothesis. The big bang is a scientific theory. Could it be wrong? Sure. But so far you can't even give us one shred of evidence for your god's existence. Pathetic. You just made it up. Today we don't get killed for calling you out on this but we did get killed for thousands of years. Why do you think the lie is so embedded into your brain? Your society/parents put it there. If we all believed in unicorns for thousands of years you'd be on USMB arguing for unicorns.

To be sure, and yet you ignore well established human behavior, and well known historical facts, that support the existence of a person known as Jesus. I'm agnostic silly boy, so don't go lumping me in with the religious folks. I AM a scientist however, and there is more evidence for the existence of Jesus than there is for the Big Bang.

As far as the existence of a God, however, there is neither evidence for, or against that too, is a fact.

Go to whynogod.com and see plenty of "evidence" that proves gods made up. Watch the cosmos. Youtube Carl Sagan or find a podcast of atheists explaining it.

There really is no good evidence for even Jesus. Could be completely made up. I assume he existed but was just a man and he probably didn't say or do half the shit they say he did.

No, there isn't. It is opinion and nothing more. What if God created the Big Bang, setting everything in motion, with a set of natural laws in place, and then went away? Merely checking in from time to time to check on his experiment, but otherwise not interacting in any way? Provide evidence that that could not be the way the universe was created.

Tell me why you dont believe. Otherwise I think I'm talking to a christian in agnostic clothing.

 

[PostmodernProph]

They are not eyewitness accounts.

you keep saying that as if it weren't made up.....why?....

Because the people who wrote the bible in 1600 didn't see it happen. Look and fucking read 1 & 2 on whynogod.com or just fucking google "who wrote the bible" and see peter Paul john and Luke did not write the bibles. They didn't even tell the authors what happened while they wrote it down. If you think they did you're delusional. Look at what most experts believe who and when the bibles were written and get back to me. And don't go to your christian sites. They are the ones lying to you lady not me. Why would I lie? You dont put money in my collection plate and I promise I'm not the devil. Your priest is. Run!

except that the Bible wasn't written in 1600....and "whynogod", probably better called "whynotruth" wasn't written in 1990...that would make it far less than hearsay would it not?.......why wouldn't I go to Christian sites to look for experts on the Bible....do you think I should trust the studies of the AtheistsRUs websites to be better experts than the Christians?........and again, why do you call me 'lady'.....I am a man you fucking idiot......

 

[PostmodernProph]

They are not eyewitness accounts.

you keep saying that as if it weren't made up.....why?....

If you really investigate it you'll see the bibles are hearsay. All of it. Do you know what hearsay is? I hope you refute 1 & 2 on whynogod. Read it. Or would that be blasphemous?

I am afraid you have lost your bible.....

Oh no! This blog’s domain whynogod.com expired 36 days ago!

 

[PostmodernProph]

They are not eyewitness accounts.

you keep saying that as if it weren't made up.....why?....

Because the people who wrote the bible in 1600 didn't see it happen. Look and fucking read 1 & 2 on whynogod.com or just fucking google "who wrote the bible" and see peter Paul john and Luke did not write the bibles. They didn't even tell the authors what happened while they wrote it down. If you think they did you're delusional. Look at what most experts believe who and when the bibles were written and get back to me. And don't go to your christian sites. They are the ones lying to you lady not me. Why would I lie? You dont put money in my collection plate and I promise I'm not the devil. Your priest is. Run!

Wow, you really don't know the slightest bit of history do you? The Bible is made up of two books, the Old and the New Testaments. The Old testament was written approximately 1400 BCE. The oldest surviving manuscript is I believe the Dead Sea Scrolls, of 200 BCE but I could be wrong on that. The New Testament was written in approximately 45-95 AD. The oldest known surviving example is around 125 AD and contains a small portion of the book of John IIRC, it is written on papyrus.

The oldest known complete Bible with both Old and New Testaments is a codex dated around 300-359 AD. The 1400ish Bible is the first one PRINTED on a printing machine, it's also called the Gutenberg Bible and was printed in latin. The 1600's Bible was the first one printed in English and is called the King James Bible because of that. The book has been around a real, real long time.

Before you start trying to teach others, you had better learn the very basics.

that has been explained to him several times.....he will ignore it as he has before......

 

[sealybobo]

They are not eyewitness accounts.

you keep saying that as if it weren't made up.....why?....

Because the people who wrote the bible in 1600 didn't see it happen. Look and fucking read 1 & 2 on whynogod.com or just fucking google "who wrote the bible" and see peter Paul john and Luke did not write the bibles. They didn't even tell the authors what happened while they wrote it down. If you think they did you're delusional. Look at what most experts believe who and when the bibles were written and get back to me. And don't go to your christian sites. They are the ones lying to you lady not me. Why would I lie? You dont put money in my collection plate and I promise I'm not the devil. Your priest is. Run!

except that the Bible wasn't written in 1600....and "whynogod", probably better called "whynotruth" wasn't written in 1990...that would make it far less than hearsay would it not?.......why wouldn't I go to Christian sites to look for experts on the Bible....do you think I should trust the studies of the AtheistsRUs websites to be better experts than the Christians?........and again, why do you call me 'lady'.....I am a man you fucking idiot......

Wiki it then but don't use the bible to tell me when it was written. The bible lied. Look into "when were the bibles written" and see what the consensus is.

At best they aren't sure but what we know is Luke john and Paul didn't put pen to paper. Sometimes the authors wrote in first person sometimes not.

I'll help you later when I'm on a computer.

 

[sealybobo]

They are not eyewitness accounts.

you keep saying that as if it weren't made up.....why?....

If you really investigate it you'll see the bibles are hearsay. All of it. Do you know what hearsay is? I hope you refute 1 & 2 on whynogod. Read it. Or would that be blasphemous?

I am afraid you have lost your bible.....

Oh no! This blog’s domain whynogod.com expired 36 days ago!

Somehow I got in yesterday? I saw that a couple days ago too.

Thanks for making the effort to go look though.

 

[PostmodernProph]

. Look into "when were the bibles written" and see what the consensus is.

I'm already quite familiar with that consensus.......the consensus is that the gospels were written by those whose names they are attributed to and that Paul wrote his epistles.....the first books of the Bible we have today were written in the mid-50s by Paul.....the latest the gospel of John by the 90s......

 

[PostmodernProph]

They are not eyewitness accounts.

you keep saying that as if it weren't made up.....why?....

If you really investigate it you'll see the bibles are hearsay. All of it. Do you know what hearsay is? I hope you refute 1 & 2 on whynogod. Read it. Or would that be blasphemous?

I am afraid you have lost your bible.....

Oh no! This blog’s domain whynogod.com expired 36 days ago!

Somehow I got in yesterday? I saw that a couple days ago too.

Thanks for making the effort to go look though.

I've read your bullshit source before....it contained nothing but some idiot atheist's complaints about what he imagined Christians were arguing.....to call his lame-brained arguments "evidence" just shows how far from reality you atheists roam.......

 

[sealybobo]

They are not eyewitness accounts.

you keep saying that as if it weren't made up.....why?....

If you really investigate it you'll see the bibles are hearsay. All of it. Do you know what hearsay is? I hope you refute 1 & 2 on whynogod. Read it. Or would that be blasphemous?

I am afraid you have lost your bible.....

Oh no! This blog’s domain whynogod.com expired 36 days ago!

Somehow I got in yesterday? I saw that a couple days ago too.

Thanks for making the effort to go look though.

I've read your bullshit source before....it contained nothing but some idiot atheist's complaints about what he imagined Christians were arguing.....to call his lame-brained arguments "evidence" just shows how far from reality you atheists roam.......

And yet I could use that source for 99.9% of the arguments you theists make. Being bias of course you didnt like any of their responses. That is clear from the replies I got on usmb.

Anyways if it doesn't matter If I believe then this is just an interesting hypothesis I like to discuss. If you think people who don't believe go to hell then you and your god can piss off. Lol