Question for catholics

[Harry Dresden]

no one prays to statues
bullshit.....when someone is kneeling before a statue of Joseph or Mary what the hell do you think they are doing?...

I know what they are doing. They are praying to God, and asking a fellow believer to pray to God with them.

Do you people truly believe that Catholics think a statue can answer a prayer. Come on. You're smarter than that. God, not artwork, answers prayers. We all know that.

i was raised a catholic....and i remember the bull thrown at us....i was told numerous times that they are praying to Mary and Joseph to ask them to put in a good word to Jesus for them or someone they know.....so dont give me your catholic crap like the priests and brothers used to do in catechism class....the big kicker we were told was that the Pope is the closest human to God on the planet and he talks to him frequently.....yea i and many others were smart enough to see through the bullshit....

 

[Harry Dresden]

no one prays to statues
bullshit.....when someone is kneeling before a statue of Joseph or Mary what the hell do you think they are doing?...

I know what they are doing. They are praying to God, and asking a fellow believer to pray to God with them.

Do you people truly believe that Catholics think a statue can answer a prayer. Come on. You're smarter than that. God, not artwork, answers prayers. We all know that.

you dont need to kneel in front of a statue of mary to pray to god....and yes i do believe that many catholics think a statue can answer a prayer.....i was taught this....luckily i asked questions,when i got some pretty pathetic answers back.....i was out of there....

 

[rightwinger]

As long as we are taking the second commandment literally, lets go all the way

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:

for I the Lord thy God am o jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of then that hate me; and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.' Exod 20: 4-6.

 

[Meriweather]

i was raised a catholic....and i remember the bull thrown at us....i was told numerous times that they are praying to Mary and Joseph to ask them to put in a good word to Jesus for them or someone they know.....so dont give me your catholic crap like the priests and brothers used to do in catechism class....the big kicker we were told was that the Pope is the closest human to God on the planet and he talks to him frequently.....yea i and many others were smart enough to see through the bullshit....

1. Catholics are taught and most practice that they may ask any other member of the Body of Christ to pray for them. The Body of Christ includes both the living and those who have passed on. If I ask my Dad, my best friend, Mary and Joseph and Saint John of the Cross to pray for me, it doesn't mean I am worshiping my Dad, my friend or any of the others. I am simply requesting they remember me in their own prayers to God.

2. The Pope is the closest human Church authority to God, and oddly enough the Pope does pray frequently.

If you don't believe others may ask others for their prayers, and if you don't believe the Pope is the closest human Church authority to God, so what? I don't think that gives you the right or the authority to state that people who are asking another to pray for them are "in reality worshiping that person." If you don't recognize the Pope as the highest Church authority, no skin off my nose. Personally, I never had to go as high as the Pope to speak to or accept what someone in authority said.

 

[Meriweather]

you dont need to kneel in front of a statue of mary to pray to god....and yes i do believe that many catholics think a statue can answer a prayer.....i was taught this....luckily i asked questions,when i got some pretty pathetic answers back.....i was out of there....

Of course you don't need to kneel, let alone kneel in front of statue to pray to God. Many of my prayers occur during walking, lying in bed, or waiting for a light to turn green. I went to Catholic school myself. We weren't taught that statues can answer prayers. We were taught God answers prayers, but that Saints, friends, and family can intercede for us and join us in our prayers. As you know, Saints have been credited for intercessory prayer and miracles God worked through them. Still it is God who answered the prayer, God who worked the miracle.

Perhaps teachers recognized that students like you were jumping to the wrong conclusion about intercessory prayer and clarified matters before my class came along.

 

[guno]

The Catholic church declares unto all that are of her church to embrace and gather as many statues, medals, relics, and artifacts to themselves as a sign of holiness unto the Lord God. However, the Creator specifically states...

Exodus 20:4, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

Deuteronomy 29:17, "And ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them

Catholic church teaches it's followers to bow down before statues when in prayer. Anyone can walk into a Catholic church and see kneelers before every statue place within.

 

[rightwinger]

God needs to lighten up....statues are cool
Ask Michelangelo ( the painter and sculptor, not the Ninja Turtle)

 

[Meriweather]

Catholic church teaches it's followers to bow down before statues when in prayer. Anyone can walk into a Catholic church and see kneelers before every statue place within.

What is wrong with kneelers? None of the the three Catholic churches I most commonly attend have kneelers in front of any statuary or artwork. Should I start up a petition do you think? In the garden area where one of these churches has the stations of the cross there is one kneeler in front of the cross. I've done the stations of the cross many times, but have never used that kneeler. Now I don't know whether next time to laugh and kneel and think of you, Guno, but I suppose you wouldn't appreciate the gesture however well intended.

Why aren't you interested in what Catholics really do, why we do it, what we really believe? It's all about love of God, embracing His love of us, and living daily life in the peace of that love. A statue/artwork can't give that. It can only serve as a reminder. Sometimes, some of us need that reminder as we go through our day. It renews our focus on God and His ways and that is what we try to pass on to those we encounter in everyday situations. Jews who do things in a certain way each day to keep God front and center in their own lives should certainly understand how this works in Catholicism. There is no reason for unnecessary sneering.

 

[Harry Dresden]

i was raised a catholic....and i remember the bull thrown at us....i was told numerous times that they are praying to Mary and Joseph to ask them to put in a good word to Jesus for them or someone they know.....so dont give me your catholic crap like the priests and brothers used to do in catechism class....the big kicker we were told was that the Pope is the closest human to God on the planet and he talks to him frequently.....yea i and many others were smart enough to see through the bullshit....

1. Catholics are taught and most practice that they may ask any other member of the Body of Christ to pray for them. The Body of Christ includes both the living and those who have passed on. If I ask my Dad, my best friend, Mary and Joseph and Saint John of the Cross to pray for me, it doesn't mean I am worshiping my Dad, my friend or any of the others. I am simply requesting they remember me in their own prayers to God.

2. The Pope is the closest human Church authority to God, and oddly enough the Pope does pray frequently.

If you don't believe others may ask others for their prayers, and if you don't believe the Pope is the closest human Church authority to God, so what? I don't think that gives you the right or the authority to state that people who are asking another to pray for them are "in reality worshiping that person." If you don't recognize the Pope as the highest Church authority, no skin off my nose. Personally, I never had to go as high as the Pope to speak to or accept what someone in authority said.

Catholics are taught and most practice that they may ask any other member of the Body of Christ to pray for them. The Body of Christ includes both the living and those who have passed on.
you bought their shit hook line and sinker.....when you are kneeling in front of a statue of Mary or anyone else....and asking that statue to pray for you....you are praying to that statue....this went on every time i remember going to church.....i dont seem to remember Jesus or the Apostles praying to a statue....but i do remember that 2nd commandment....
I don't think that gives you the right or the authority to state that people who are asking another to pray for them are "in reality worshiping that person."
living people or a statue?.....there is a difference....

 

[Penelope]

God needs to lighten up....statues are cool
Ask Michelangelo ( the painter and sculptor, not the Ninja Turtle)

The RC God likes art and creativity , its a present to him.

 

[Penelope]

The Catholic church declares unto all that are of her church to embrace and gather as many statues, medals, relics, and artifacts to themselves as a sign of holiness unto the Lord God. However, the Creator specifically states...

Exodus 20:4, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

Deuteronomy 29:17, "And ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them

Catholic church teaches it's followers to bow down before statues when in prayer. Anyone can walk into a Catholic church and see kneelers before every statue place within.

Hey the jewish God had an issue with jealousy, and to be frank he was right, your were all pagans and just used and abused your God to the max. Take Solomon, no wonder.

The RCC God does not have that issue, we keep it all in the family.

 

[Meriweather]

.....when you are kneeling in front of a statue of Mary or anyone else....and asking that statue to pray for you....you are praying to that statue....this went on every time i remember going to church.....

You asked a statue to pray for you??!!? lol. How old were you at the time?

i dont seem to remember Jesus or the Apostles praying to a statue....but i do remember that 2nd commandment....living people or a statue?.....there is a difference....

Look, I'm going to try to get off the floor and stop laughing, but even as a little kid, I knew we didn't pray to statues! I'm sorry, very sorry in fact, that you came to that conclusion. You remember the second Commandment? Because in Catholicism the order is somewhat different.

1. I am the Lord your God. You shall not put false Gods before me.
2. You shall not take the name of God in vain.
3. Keep holy the Lord's day.

Catholic teaching is that nothing comes before God, a worrisome Commandment for a small child, because of course, I put my family and most of my friends before God. I even made a list of everyone I put before God. It was a very long list before the name of God appeared. I was also taught that God didn't expect perfection in an instant--that we had our whole life to work on becoming perfect--and that God loved us and was there to help us accomplish that goal. And sure enough, as life went on, God kept moving up towards the top of the list.

So, while I was praying to God, you were praying to a statue. I'm now sorry about my original burst of laughter, but that cannot be undone. Truly, I don't know how you got it into your head a statue could hear or pray. Or, once it was in your head why a teacher or family member didn't correct your impression.

I can say with certainty that Jesus nor the Apostles prayed to a statue. You are the first person I have ever heard say that they, in fact, prayed to a statue. But here's the reality. Apparently even as a small child you knew statues couldn't hear and pray with/for you. And you stopped doing it. Those of us who never prayed to statues to begin with didn't have to stop. I hope with all my heart you didn't stop praying, only that you stopped praying to statues.

 

[Harry Dresden]

.....when you are kneeling in front of a statue of Mary or anyone else....and asking that statue to pray for you....you are praying to that statue....this went on every time i remember going to church.....

You asked a statue to pray for you??!!? lol. How old were you at the time?

i dont seem to remember Jesus or the Apostles praying to a statue....but i do remember that 2nd commandment....living people or a statue?.....there is a difference....

Look, I'm going to try to get off the floor and stop laughing, but even as a little kid, I knew we didn't pray to statues! I'm sorry, very sorry in fact, that you came to that conclusion. You remember the second Commandment? Because in Catholicism the order is somewhat different.

1. I am the Lord your God. You shall not put false Gods before me.
2. You shall not take the name of God in vain.
3. Keep holy the Lord's day.

Catholic teaching is that nothing comes before God, a worrisome Commandment for a small child, because of course, I put my family and most of my friends before God. I even made a list of everyone I put before God. It was a very long list before the name of God appeared. I was also taught that God didn't expect perfection in an instant--that we had our whole life to work on becoming perfect--and that God loved us and was there to help us accomplish that goal. And sure enough, as life went on, God kept moving up towards the top of the list.

So, while I was praying to God, you were praying to a statue. I'm now sorry about my original burst of laughter, but that cannot be undone. Truly, I don't know how you got it into your head a statue could hear or pray. Or, once it was in your head why a teacher or family member didn't correct your impression.

I can say with certainty that Jesus nor the Apostles prayed to a statue. You are the first person I have ever heard say that they, in fact, prayed to a statue. But here's the reality. Apparently even as a small child you knew statues couldn't hear and pray with/for you. And you stopped doing it. Those of us who never prayed to statues to begin with didn't have to stop. I hope with all my heart you didn't stop praying, only that you stopped praying to statues.

why dont you show me were i said...
i asked a statue to pray for me
can say with certainty that Jesus nor the Apostles prayed to a statue. You are the first person I have ever heard say that they, in fact, prayed to a statue.
instead of lying like an ass,show me were i ever said i prayed to a statue or i said jesus did.....you are a typical die hard religious person....you will hear what you want to hear and twist around what someone else says about your fucking religion because you dont want to hear how foolish the catholic religion is...show me were i said what you said i said or i will just consider you another one of them religious zealots with your head stuck up your religions collective ass....

 

[Meriweather]

why dont you show me were i said...
i asked a statue to pray for me

show me were i ever said i prayed to a statue or i said jesus did.....you are a typical die hard religious person....you will hear what you want to hear and twist around what someone else says about your religion because you dont want to hear how foolish the catholic religion is...show me were i said what you said i said or i will just ...

Re-read your posts. Note your own use of "you", I know you were not talking about me or anyone I know because I know that's not what I do, or anyone I know does. Therefore, "you" must have been speaking from your own experience about praying to a statue. What, you protest when someone tells you what "you" do, when that's precisely the technique you use? Calm down and take a joking poke in return.

You can consider me any which way you please--after all, it's your mind. What I know about you is that you have no problem telling everyone else what they are doing, but get royally ticked off when it happens to you. Why not present what you do and listen when people explain what they do? If you did not get the idea that people pray to statues because that's what you did as a Catholic, then where did you get the idea all of us other "yous" do?

 

[zaangalewa]

no one prays to statues
bullshit.....when someone is kneeling before a statue of Joseph or Mary what the hell do you think they are doing?...

I know what they are doing. They are praying to God, and asking a fellow believer to pray to God with them.

Do you people truly believe that Catholics think a statue can answer a prayer. Come on. You're smarter than that. God, not artwork, answers prayers. We all know that.

you dont need to kneel in front of a statue of mary to pray to god....and yes i do believe that many catholics think a statue can answer a prayer.....

Somehow true. The whole creation of god can answer. When Gautama Siddartha became the awoken Shakyamunie he asked for example the transzendent reality wether he should teach his way others too. And the answer was his bowl swam not down a river - it swam in the other direction, where the water came from. So he knew it was not his own will and delusions which dominated his teachings.

i was taught this....luckily i asked questions,when i got some pretty pathetic answers back.....i was out of there....

I bring you back. When the Osmans attacked Vienna (Middle Europe) often the people saw statues of the Madonna cry. The people interpreted this as a sign to make her happy again and fought like crazy against the Osmans - who on the other side destroyed often complete towns and villages and killed everyone. But the tears of the Madonna - seen in many statues - did not stop until the war was over.

Some years ago a Turk told me something about the meaning of their proud flag. He spoke a lot about blood and war and proudness in this context. I tried to verify his stories about his flag. But in the end the colors and signs of his flag told me another story - a bycantinic story. Indeed three times appears mother Mary in this flag. The red color is not blood but aurora, eos, dawn. The star is the star of Mary: Also known in the compass as a sign for orientation to be able to find the way to heaven - now it is only a five-pointed-star any longer in the turkish flag but was once an eight-pointed-star. And the moon in the flag - sometimes seen as a symbol of the Islam at all - is just simple Mary's footstool. It's said Mary lived once in asia minor in an area called the golden moon - an area of rich harvestings. But perhaps this area is only an idea and the moon an instrument for rich harvesting: a sickle -- or - as ist was also under the celtic druids - an instrument for cuting healthful plants, for medicine. This would be a bridge to the cultures of the red indians too.

And what had happened in this war? The Sultans of the osman empire often stole children - not only from christian families - and educated this children as fanatics in their army. It was very difficult to stop this fanatics - history calls them still "elites" . A typical report out of this times was: "We found a destroyed village. We will follow the murderers and kill them all. God may be mercyful (gracious, compassionate) with our souls." It needed some time for me to understand why they asked for mercy for their own souls and not for mercy for the souls of their enemies. I guess they feared to have to live in hell for the deeds they had to do on reasons of self-defense. But they gave their enemies a chance: Who became a Christian was not killed.

And now tell me please what you would do if you would be mother Mary. I for myselve hope I never will see tears in the eyes [of a statue] of mother Mary - without being able to stop the reasons for this tears. Her tears are my tears.

 

[zaangalewa]

The Catholic church declares unto all that are of her church to embrace and gather as many statues, medals, relics, and artifacts to themselves as a sign of holiness unto the Lord God. However, the Creator specifically states...

Exodus 20:4, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

Deuteronomy 29:17, "And ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them

Catholic church teaches it's followers to bow down before statues when in prayer. Anyone can walk into a Catholic church and see kneelers before every statue place within.

Hey the jewish God had an issue with jealousy, and to be frank he was right, your were all pagans and just used and abused your God to the max. Take Solomon, no wonder.

The RCC God does not have that issue, we keep it all in the family.

Who is "we"? Nothing what you say here has only a little to do with the holy catholic church. Specially your antisemitism is absolutely incompatible with Catholics and nothing replaces Jews or the Old Testament in the holy catholic church nor produces the holy catholic church a special kind of god. There's only one god and this god is for everyone the same god. And what for heavens sake is your problem with Solomon? Made he a seal on your bottle and threw you into the sea, genie ... ahm: jinnny?

 

[Harry Dresden]

why dont you show me were i said...
i asked a statue to pray for me

show me were i ever said i prayed to a statue or i said jesus did.....you are a typical die hard religious person....you will hear what you want to hear and twist around what someone else says about your religion because you dont want to hear how foolish the catholic religion is...show me were i said what you said i said or i will just ...

Re-read your posts. Note your own use of "you", I know you were not talking about me or anyone I know because I know that's not what I do, or anyone I know does. Therefore, "you" must have been speaking from your own experience about praying to a statue. What, you protest when someone tells you what "you" do, when that's precisely the technique you use? Calm down and take a joking poke in return.

You can consider me any which way you please--after all, it's your mind. What I know about you is that you have no problem telling everyone else what they are doing, but get royally ticked off when it happens to you. Why not present what you do and listen when people explain what they do? If you did not get the idea that people pray to statues because that's what you did as a Catholic, then where did you get the idea all of us other "yous" do?

show me were you "claimed" i prayed to statues or i said Jesus did,you said it,now back it up,or will you just do what you people always do....twist things to fit what you want it to say....your "religion" is the worlds richest cult and you have bought their bullshit.......ask your pope why does the vatican have all that gold and silver inside and why they are worth billions.....Jesus would have a field day throwing all that stuff out of that place.....

 

[zaangalewa]

... why does the vatican have all that gold and silver inside and why they are worth billions ...

Very easy. We are many and we are old. Without Catholics and Orthodoxs nearly no Christians at all would exist on planet Earth. Indeed a penny invested in the right way at the birth of Jesus Christ would today be worth 7 Earthes full of gold. But we decided to be poor and not to be as rich, because this could destabilize the orbit of the Earth around the sun.

The citizens of the USA have by the way a lifestyle as if 4.8 Earthes would exist and more than 50% of the resources of the USA are outside of the USA. That's why you have an household as if the USA would be a military dictatorship and a social developing country.

 

[Penelope]

The Catholic church declares unto all that are of her church to embrace and gather as many statues, medals, relics, and artifacts to themselves as a sign of holiness unto the Lord God. However, the Creator specifically states...

Exodus 20:4, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

Deuteronomy 29:17, "And ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them

Catholic church teaches it's followers to bow down before statues when in prayer. Anyone can walk into a Catholic church and see kneelers before every statue place within.

Hey the jewish God had an issue with jealousy, and to be frank he was right, your were all pagans and just used and abused your God to the max. Take Solomon, no wonder.

The RCC God does not have that issue, we keep it all in the family.

Who is "we"? Nothing what you say here has only a little to do with the holy catholic church. Specially your antisemitism is absolutely incompatible with Catholics and nothing replaces Jews or the Old Testament in the holy catholic church nor produces the holy catholic church a special kind of god. There's only one god and this god is for everyone the same god. And what for heavens sake is your problem with Solomon? Made he a seal on your bottle and threw you into the sea, genie ... ahm: jinnny?

We the family of RC's , we are not Jews, I wish Christians would realize that we are not jews. Solomon (in the story) got wisdom from God which brought him wealth, and yet he turns into the biggest worshipper of other Gods, kinda of like slapping your God in the face time and time again hey. We do not want to emulate ole Solomon, who had 700 wifes and even more sex slaves. (according to the story)

 

[Meriweather]

show me were you "claimed" i prayed to statues or i said Jesus did,you said it,now back it up,or will you just do what you people always do....twist things to fit what you want it to say....your "religion" is the worlds richest cult and you have bought their bullshit.......ask your pope why does the vatican have all that gold and silver inside and why they are worth billions.....Jesus would have a field day throwing all that stuff out of that place.....

We've already gone over the praying to statues, and now we should both agree no one prays to statues. You said I did, and I assured you I didn't and never had. When you kept using 'you' insisting I and others did, I turned it around and said it must have been you who prayed to statues in order to think anyone else did or does. You assured me you never prayed to statues either. So no one prays to statues. I'm happy we got that truth established.

It's funny you accuse me of twisting when that how this all started out: People twisting displays of artwork into people praying to artwork. Laughing, I gave it a little untwist and tossed it back, but instead of finding the humor in the exchange and getting the point, you want to start a fight. I did not wish to fight--only to make a point.

As far as Vatican City: The Catholic Church gives and tends to the poor more than any other world charity. Last Sunday the Church all over was collecting contributions to help the poor in South America. It is because the Church is so big that it can do so much for the poor. That is a high priority, but the poor is not the Church's sole priority. It also has a responsibility to inspire. Many people, after touring the Vatican, return with a renewed faith, a renewed sense of purpose.

You might recall what Jesus said when Judas complained that the woman who bathed Jesus feet with expensive perfume should have sold it and gave it to the poor. Jesus said, "The poor you always have with you..." and we do. But sometimes, just like Jesus, people need/appreciate the expensive perfume as well.