Real Christianity vs Modern Christianity

[Delta4Embassy]

Hard not to notice many outspoken Christians seem to talking about a Jesus and Christianity not backed up by actual Scriptures. When ever you wanna know the truth about something go to the source and oldest, most original version (before schizms and rewritting took place.) For Christianity this is found in Gnosticism which is the original version of 'Christ followers.'

Great site here, link is to a chronological listing of the Christian writings as with the NT, apocrypha, etc.

Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers

Looking at this link it's amazing where Gospel fo Matthew is considering the 20 or so pieces of writing out decades before. Yet I'll bet most Christians assume Matthew was written first since it appears first in the NT.

The site's entry for Gnostics is especially worth-while,
Gnostics, Gnostic Gospels, & Gnosticism

"A one-sentence description of Gnosticism: a religion that differentiates the evil god of this world (who is identified with the god of the Old Testament) from a higher more abstract God revealed by Jesus Christ, a religion that regards this world as the creation of a series of evil archons/powers who wish to keep the human soul trapped in an evil physical body, a religion that preaches a hidden wisdom or knowledge only to a select group as necessary for salvation or escape from this world."

Most Christians think Jesus was the literal son of God since many referred to him as that. Yet the earliest "Christian" writings reveal much more accurately what Jesus was all about than the modern fables do.

With a more accurate and complete picture of the religion that sprang up LONG after Jesus' death, what we think it means to be Christian today can only make you laugh.

 

[Chuckt]

We reject Gnosticism.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Most do. The early Catholics all but wiped them off the face of the earth.

 

[mudwhistle]

It's extremely weird that gays support a president that has a close friendship with the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas, both of which would be tickled to saw every homosexual's head off just for general purposes.

I just wonder if some of you are aware of this or has your sense of self-preservation taken a dirt nap?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Going off topic/thread hijacking is against this site's rules and can result in disciplinary action. Even in a mirror and upside down, that has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[Chuckt]

Most do. The early Catholics all but wiped them off the face of the earth.

We don't recognize Gnosticism except to teach that it is false.

 

[mudwhistle]

Going off topic/thread hijacking is against this site's rules and can result in disciplinary action. Even in a mirror and upside down, that has nothing to do with this thread.

Report me then.

I wanted to bring some perspective to this discussion.

I hear this constant criticism of Christianity, but no complaints about the folks that liberals like going to bat for.

I just like pointing out the irony every so often.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Hard not to notice many outspoken Christians seem to talking about a Jesus and Christianity not backed up by actual Scriptures. When ever you wanna know the truth about something go to the source and oldest, most original version (before schizms and rewritting took place.) For Christianity this is found in Gnosticism which is the original version of 'Christ followers.'

Great site here, link is to a chronological listing of the Christian writings as with the NT, apocrypha, etc.

Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers

Looking at this link it's amazing where Gospel fo Matthew is considering the 20 or so pieces of writing out decades before. Yet I'll bet most Christians assume Matthew was written first since it appears first in the NT.

The site's entry for Gnostics is especially worth-while,
Gnostics, Gnostic Gospels, & Gnosticism

"A one-sentence description of Gnosticism: a religion that differentiates the evil god of this world (who is identified with the god of the Old Testament) from a higher more abstract God revealed by Jesus Christ, a religion that regards this world as the creation of a series of evil archons/powers who wish to keep the human soul trapped in an evil physical body, a religion that preaches a hidden wisdom or knowledge only to a select group as necessary for salvation or escape from this world."

Most Christians think Jesus was the literal son of God since many referred to him as that. Yet the earliest "Christian" writings reveal much more accurately what Jesus was all about than the modern fables do.

With a more accurate and complete picture of the religion that sprang up LONG after Jesus' death, what we think it means to be Christian today can only make you laugh.

I believe the title of your thread would make for an excellent discussion, Delta. I respectfully disagree with your defining of real christianity vs modern christianity however. I believe that true Christianity is based on the Cross and the Message of the Cross and modern Christianity has forgotten the message of the Cross and embraced other doctrines which have resulted in a powerless church. Now I know some Christians would disagree with me about that but in my belief there is only one true Christianity and that is the message of the Cross. What is that message? Ye must be born again to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. The way I feel about this matter is very simple, Delta. If it is not found in the Written Word of God - The Holy Bible? It is not of God. Everything must be based off the written Word of God or I cannot accept it. That would be my response to your thread discussion although I must reiterate again, your title is very thought provoking. Very. ( in light of where the church is headed in this hour ) Thank you for reading.

 

[Avatar4321]

The original source isn't the ancient writings though. The original source is God. One can appeal to Him easily.

 

[mudwhistle]

The original source isn't the ancient writings though. The original source is God. One can appeal to Him easily.

Jesus is the beginning of Christianity.

His grace and his sacrifice replaced killing of a lamb in God's eyes, and washes the sin from our souls.

Without him we wouldn't have salvation.

Many Christians forget his example and exhibit bigotry and hatred for others because of their false superiority.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Hard not to notice many outspoken Christians seem to talking about a Jesus and Christianity not backed up by actual Scriptures. When ever you wanna know the truth about something go to the source and oldest, most original version (before schizms and rewritting took place.) For Christianity this is found in Gnosticism which is the original version of 'Christ followers.'

Great site here, link is to a chronological listing of the Christian writings as with the NT, apocrypha, etc.

Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers

Looking at this link it's amazing where Gospel fo Matthew is considering the 20 or so pieces of writing out decades before. Yet I'll bet most Christians assume Matthew was written first since it appears first in the NT.

The site's entry for Gnostics is especially worth-while,
Gnostics, Gnostic Gospels, & Gnosticism

"A one-sentence description of Gnosticism: a religion that differentiates the evil god of this world (who is identified with the god of the Old Testament) from a higher more abstract God revealed by Jesus Christ, a religion that regards this world as the creation of a series of evil archons/powers who wish to keep the human soul trapped in an evil physical body, a religion that preaches a hidden wisdom or knowledge only to a select group as necessary for salvation or escape from this world."

Most Christians think Jesus was the literal son of God since many referred to him as that. Yet the earliest "Christian" writings reveal much more accurately what Jesus was all about than the modern fables do.

With a more accurate and complete picture of the religion that sprang up LONG after Jesus' death, what we think it means to be Christian today can only make you laugh.

What the hell makes you an expert on real anything?

FYI, Gnosticism was roundly condemned by the early church. You should read up on church history before declaring yourself an expert on something you are completely ignorant about.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Going off topic/thread hijacking is against this site's rules and can result in disciplinary action. Even in a mirror and upside down, that has nothing to do with this thread.

An example of this is when Muslim violence is pointed out but someone will post "But Christians are just as bad!"

Right?

 

[mudwhistle]

Going off topic/thread hijacking is against this site's rules and can result in disciplinary action. Even in a mirror and upside down, that has nothing to do with this thread.

An example of this is when Muslim violence is pointed out but someone will post "But Christians are just as bad!"

Right?

Maybe about 400 years ago or more....but that's beside the point.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Gnostic writings are documents of the Gnostic religion, not documents of Christianity.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

We reject Gnosticism.

the basic problem with gnostics was that they believed EVERYTHING......they incorporated everything everyone believed into one all encompassing religion......

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Hard not to notice many outspoken Christians seem to talking about a Jesus and Christianity not backed up by actual Scriptures. When ever you wanna know the truth about something go to the source and oldest, most original version (before schizms and rewritting took place.) For Christianity this is found in Gnosticism which is the original version of 'Christ followers.'

Great site here, link is to a chronological listing of the Christian writings as with the NT, apocrypha, etc.

Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers

Looking at this link it's amazing where Gospel fo Matthew is considering the 20 or so pieces of writing out decades before. Yet I'll bet most Christians assume Matthew was written first since it appears first in the NT.

The site's entry for Gnostics is especially worth-while,
Gnostics, Gnostic Gospels, & Gnosticism

"A one-sentence description of Gnosticism: a religion that differentiates the evil god of this world (who is identified with the god of the Old Testament) from a higher more abstract God revealed by Jesus Christ, a religion that regards this world as the creation of a series of evil archons/powers who wish to keep the human soul trapped in an evil physical body, a religion that preaches a hidden wisdom or knowledge only to a select group as necessary for salvation or escape from this world."

Most Christians think Jesus was the literal son of God since many referred to him as that. Yet the earliest "Christian" writings reveal much more accurately what Jesus was all about than the modern fables do.

With a more accurate and complete picture of the religion that sprang up LONG after Jesus' death, what we think it means to be Christian today can only make you laugh.

I believe the title of your thread would make for an excellent discussion, Delta. I respectfully disagree with your defining of real christianity vs modern christianity however. I believe that true Christianity is based on the Cross and the Message of the Cross and modern Christianity has forgotten the message of the Cross and embraced other doctrines which have resulted in a powerless church. Now I know some Christians would disagree with me about that but in my belief there is only one true Christianity and that is the message of the Cross. What is that message? Ye must be born again to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. The way I feel about this matter is very simple, Delta. If it is not found in the Written Word of God - The Holy Bible? It is not of God. Everything must be based off the written Word of God or I cannot accept it. That would be my response to your thread discussion although I must reiterate again, your title is very thought provoking. Very. ( in light of where the church is headed in this hour ) Thank you for reading.

My choice in thread title was deliberate like most of mine. I coulda been very successful in advertising.

As to the difference though, 'real' Christianity simply refers to what contemporaries of Jesus practiced, not what we have now after literally hundreds of church splits and reinventions to say nothing of Bible edits and rewrites.

 

[Chuckt]

Hard not to notice many outspoken Christians seem to talking about a Jesus and Christianity not backed up by actual Scriptures. When ever you wanna know the truth about something go to the source and oldest, most original version (before schizms and rewritting took place.) For Christianity this is found in Gnosticism which is the original version of 'Christ followers.'

Great site here, link is to a chronological listing of the Christian writings as with the NT, apocrypha, etc.

Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers

Looking at this link it's amazing where Gospel fo Matthew is considering the 20 or so pieces of writing out decades before. Yet I'll bet most Christians assume Matthew was written first since it appears first in the NT.

The site's entry for Gnostics is especially worth-while,
Gnostics, Gnostic Gospels, & Gnosticism

"A one-sentence description of Gnosticism: a religion that differentiates the evil god of this world (who is identified with the god of the Old Testament) from a higher more abstract God revealed by Jesus Christ, a religion that regards this world as the creation of a series of evil archons/powers who wish to keep the human soul trapped in an evil physical body, a religion that preaches a hidden wisdom or knowledge only to a select group as necessary for salvation or escape from this world."

Most Christians think Jesus was the literal son of God since many referred to him as that. Yet the earliest "Christian" writings reveal much more accurately what Jesus was all about than the modern fables do.

With a more accurate and complete picture of the religion that sprang up LONG after Jesus' death, what we think it means to be Christian today can only make you laugh.

I believe the title of your thread would make for an excellent discussion, Delta. I respectfully disagree with your defining of real christianity vs modern christianity however. I believe that true Christianity is based on the Cross and the Message of the Cross and modern Christianity has forgotten the message of the Cross and embraced other doctrines which have resulted in a powerless church. Now I know some Christians would disagree with me about that but in my belief there is only one true Christianity and that is the message of the Cross. What is that message? Ye must be born again to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. The way I feel about this matter is very simple, Delta. If it is not found in the Written Word of God - The Holy Bible? It is not of God. Everything must be based off the written Word of God or I cannot accept it. That would be my response to your thread discussion although I must reiterate again, your title is very thought provoking. Very. ( in light of where the church is headed in this hour ) Thank you for reading.

My choice in thread title was deliberate like most of mine. I coulda been very successful in advertising.

As to the difference though, 'real' Christianity simply refers to what contemporaries of Jesus practiced, not what we have now after literally hundreds of church splits and reinventions to say nothing of Bible edits and rewrites.

I'm tied to a person and not a Church building.

I'm looking for my quote but Robert Lightner the church historian noted that the early church had congregational, episcopal and other forms of church leadership and they heard right from the apostles.

The fact is that I am free and I don't have to live like everybody else. That is what Christ gives to me. The fact that I can travel the world, meet a Christian and we can feel like brothers is amazing even though we never met before is a testament to itself.

As far as re-writes go, that is false for several reasons because there were four manuscript families that went to four different geographical areas of the earth where no one person or group had control so if one person changed something, it would be noticed in the other three manuscript families. I traced what I believe back to the early church and their first early creeds were Bible verses which is what I have today. On top of that, we have the writings of the Church fathers and with that we can reproduce all but something like ten verses of the Bible from their writings.

On top of that, God gives us inspiration, illumination and revelation because the word of God speaks through God's spirit to us and I am never alone.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

It's a well-known fact every college student learns that with every retelling of a tale, little changes creep in. With religions this is especially true given there's been almost 2000 years of retellings. And with every church-split as new denominations are founded, almost every time a new edit of the Bible comes along with it. Consequently, unless you can read the original ancient Greek and Hebrew, and are looking at the surviving text fragments (there is no complete original Gospels, NT, or Bible) chances are you're just following someone else's idea of what Jesus meant to say was...

First was the Gnostics, but as competition to the blossoming Catholic church they got wiped out so the Catholics could control the information. And they did for about a thousand years. Then the Protestant Reformation came along, and after a while more all the Proestant denominations we have today fracturing off the first reformation. Thus "Christianity" as thought of today bears little if any resemblance to anything Jesus actually taught. Christians are inadvertantly following the ideas of men and women, not Jesus. At least not in any great way. There's two main differences, what Jesus taught which was Judaism since the NT Gospels wouldn't get written until centuries after his death, and the current warm and fuzzy version which makes Jesus and God seem all benevolent.

 

[Chuckt]

It's a well-known fact every college student learns that with every retelling of a tale, little changes creep in. With religions this is especially true given there's been almost 2000 years of retellings. And with every church-split as new denominations are founded, almost every time a new edit of the Bible comes along with it. Consequently, unless you can read the original ancient Greek and Hebrew, and are looking at the surviving text fragments (there is no complete original Gospels, NT, or Bible) chances are you're just following someone else's idea of what Jesus meant to say was...

First was the Gnostics, but as competition to the blossoming Catholic church they got wiped out so the Catholics could control the information. And they did for about a thousand years. Then the Protestant Reformation came along, and after a while more all the Proestant denominations we have today fracturing off the first reformation. Thus "Christianity" as thought of today bears little if any resemblance to anything Jesus actually taught. Christians are inadvertantly following the ideas of men and women, not Jesus. At least not in any great way. There's two main differences, what Jesus taught which was Judaism since the NT Gospels wouldn't get written until centuries after his death, and the current warm and fuzzy version which makes Jesus and God seem all benevolent.

The difference is that it was something they did professionally and full time back then because they weren't preoccupied with television or radio back then.
I knew an engineer who learned how to recite half the book and he did it for me perfectly.

The second thing is that we have four gospels and we don't have to worry about one person's account or what he saw because there are four.

The truth is that we're following the words of God as recorded by God's people.

You are wrong about Gnosticism being wiped out.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/The-Gnostic-Origins-Calvinism-Johnson/dp/149238609X]The Gnostic Origins of Calvinism: Ken Johnson: 9781492386094: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Gnostic-Origins-Roman-Catholicism/dp/1492830569/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1405180750&sr=1-1&keywords=the+gnostic+origins+of+roman+catholicism+by+ken+johnson]The Gnostic Origins of Roman Catholicism: Ken Johnson: 9781492830566: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

These two books kind of wipe out your argument that Gnosticism was early Christianity and today's Christianity is false because the early Christians wiped them out.

Give me refutable footnotes because what I am hearing is nonsense and if you still think it is nonsense, God can still judge you by His law.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

"Whereas formerly Gnosticism was considered mostly a corruption of Christianity, it now seems clear that the first traces of Gnostic systems can be discerned some centuries before the Christian Era."

"When Gnosticism came in touch with Christianity, which must have happened almost immediately on its appearance, Gnosticism threw herself with strange rapidity into Christian forms of thought, borrowed its nomenclature, acknowledged Jesus as Saviour of the world, simulated its sacraments, pretended to be an esoteric revelation of Christ and His Apostles, flooded the world with apocryphal Gospels, and Acts, and Apocalypses, to substantiate its claim. As Christianity grew within and without the Roman Empire, Gnosticism spread as a fungus at its root, and claimed to be the only true form of Christianity, unfit, indeed, for the vulgar crowd, but set apart for the gifted and the elect. So rank was its poisonous growth that there seemed danger of its stifling Christianity altogether, and the earliest Fathers devoted their energies to uprooting it."
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Gnosticism

As they did with others like Jews, pagans, Muslims, the Catholics fought and killed any competing narrative which might threaten their power.