Reason vs. Morality

[Wry Catcher]

I find it most rational to live and think as amorally as possible.

Are you a corporation?

 

[eagle1462010]

no---what is the rationale for NOT killing.

1. Genesis 9:6 prescribed the death penalty for murder when it said that if a man “shed the blood” of another man, by man must his blood be shed. The only law repeated in all five of the books of the old testament.

2. Exodus 21:12-14
Leviticus 24:17 and 21
Numbers 35:16-18 and Numbers 35:31
Deuteronomy 19:11-13

How come atheist are anti murder ?

That always depends on the person. Just because they don't believe in God does't mean they don't have an ethics code.

 

[dilloduck]

1. Genesis 9:6 prescribed the death penalty for murder when it said that if a man “shed the blood” of another man, by man must his blood be shed. The only law repeated in all five of the books of the old testament.

2. Exodus 21:12-14
Leviticus 24:17 and 21
Numbers 35:16-18 and Numbers 35:31
Deuteronomy 19:11-13

How come atheist are anti murder ?

That always depends on the person. Just because they don't believe in God does't mean they don't have an ethics code.

I understand that. I'm trying to acertain what that code would be based on.

 

[September]

I find it most rational to live and think as amorally as possible.

Whose morals do you chose to rebel against ?

There is no rebelling against any moral code. Instead there is a sense of understanding and respect towards all of them, while keeping myself free from such limitations unless a situation calls for me to exploit such behavior in order to fulfill an objective or manipulate someone.

To embrace the Sun at Night and the Moon during the Day... thus is my Way.

 

[dilloduck]

I find it most rational to live and think as amorally as possible.

Whose morals do you chose to rebel against ?

There is no rebelling against any moral code. Instead there is a sense of understanding and respect towards all of them, while keeping myself free from such limitations unless a situation calls for me to exploit such behavior in order to fulfill an objective or manipulate someone.

To embrace the Sun at Night and the Moon during the Day... thus is my Way.

So you're not amoral--you just make up your own as you see fit.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I find it most rational to live and think as amorally as possible.

Whose morals do you chose to rebel against ?

There is no rebelling against any moral code. Instead there is a sense of understanding and respect towards all of them, while keeping myself free from such limitations unless a situation calls for me to exploit such behavior in order to fulfill an objective or manipulate someone.

To embrace the Sun at Night and the Moon during the Day... thus is my Way.

A new age corporation then?

 

[Steven_R]

no---what is the rationale for NOT killing.

Again, rationale is part of Reason and Morals..........They are one in the same to me. If I feel I'd go to hell if I did so would I have a rationale based on religion...........

ok--- then an atheist rationale for laws prohibiting murder

It's wrong to hurt people and there is no greater way to hurt someone than to snuff out their life.

Why is it wrong to hurt some one I the next question you're likely to ask. I'm not a philosopher and so I can't articulate the answer except to say it just is. I don't need orders from a supernatural being to know not to be a dick.

 

[dilloduck]

Again, rationale is part of Reason and Morals..........They are one in the same to me. If I feel I'd go to hell if I did so would I have a rationale based on religion...........

ok--- then an atheist rationale for laws prohibiting murder

It's wrong to hurt people and there is no greater way to hurt someone than to snuff out their life.

Why is it wrong to hurt some one I the next question you're likely to ask. I'm not a philosopher and so I can't articulate the answer except to say it just is. I don't need orders from a supernatural being to know not to be a dick.

This is turning out to be tougher than I thought----either that or secularists have no answer. NO----that's not what I'm asking.
What is the rational basis for having laws prohibiting murder ? Not the religious or moral one---the RATIONAL one as it pertains to the OP.

 

[Steven_R]

Well, it's wrong to hurt people without a damned good reason. Beyond that we can discuss things like no allowing laws to be taken into one's hands because of the breakdown in society that will arise in the presence of vigilantism or how the authority of the state means the state alone will have a monopoly on violence.

 

[dilloduck]

Well, it's wrong to hurt people without a damned good reason. Beyond that we can discuss things like no allowing laws to be taken into one's hands because of the breakdown in society that will arise in the presence of vigilantism or how the authority of the state means the state alone will have a monopoly on violence.

and that damned good reason is ?

 

[Unkotare]

Can't have one widdout da udder.

 

[Steven_R]

Well, it's wrong to hurt people without a damned good reason. Beyond that we can discuss things like no allowing laws to be taken into one's hands because of the breakdown in society that will arise in the presence of vigilantism or how the authority of the state means the state alone will have a monopoly on violence.

and that damned good reason is ?

Defense of one's life and/or property. It certainly isn't stuff like revenge or anger or to cover up a crime, all of which killing for would constitute a reasonable definition for murder.

 

[PoliticalChic]

no---what is the rationale for NOT killing.

1. Genesis 9:6 prescribed the death penalty for murder when it said that if a man “shed the blood” of another man, by man must his blood be shed. The only law repeated in all five of the books of the old testament.

2. Exodus 21:12-14
Leviticus 24:17 and 21
Numbers 35:16-18 and Numbers 35:31
Deuteronomy 19:11-13

How come atheist are anti murder ?

If I understand your query, you are asking, if one is not of the Judeo-Christian persuasion, how can they be a 'good person'?

If that is your point.....you're not serious, are you?




1.Now for the idea that the rational, the common sense method is better than religious morality. Can a human being be good without reference to God? As the saying goes, ‘Going to church doesn’t make you a good Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.’

2. Sure….there could be good pagans….or bad religious folks. While it is true that one can be moral and good and not religious, the idea does not work for all or even most.

3. Why? Because there is no force behind reason. Take murder as an example. There is no rational way to convince the murder that he shouldn’t kill his fellow man if the individual stands in his way of making a profit, of solving some problem, or, simply because he enjoys same.

4. If there is no God who declares that such an act is wrong, then my arguing such is simply my opinion versus that of the murderer. Without God, good and evil are a matter of taste.
Reason supports a lot of things, as for example, a very liberal position on abortion. If there is no God, "Love your neighbor as yourself" is just a good idea. That's why it is written, incidentally, in Leviticus, "Love your neighbor as yourself, I am God."
I, God, tell you to be decent to other people.


Either one accepts that there is something more than themselves, or one lives based on his /her desires alone.
Which is better?

 

[dilloduck]

Well, it's wrong to hurt people without a damned good reason. Beyond that we can discuss things like no allowing laws to be taken into one's hands because of the breakdown in society that will arise in the presence of vigilantism or how the authority of the state means the state alone will have a monopoly on violence.

and that damned good reason is ?

Defense of one's life and/or property. It certainly isn't stuff like revenge or anger or to cover up a crime, all of which killing for would constitute a reasonable definition for murder.

I know----it's hard to admit that atheists are against murder for the same reason that religious people are.

 

[Steven_R]

Because "It's wrong to kill because it's a dick move" is exactly the same as "It's wrong to kill because God said so".

 

[PoliticalChic]

no---what is the rationale for NOT killing.

1. Genesis 9:6 prescribed the death penalty for murder when it said that if a man “shed the blood” of another man, by man must his blood be shed. The only law repeated in all five of the books of the old testament.

2. Exodus 21:12-14
Leviticus 24:17 and 21
Numbers 35:16-18 and Numbers 35:31
Deuteronomy 19:11-13

And yet Scott Roeder and Eric Rudolph still breath.

I've thought about that in connection with you, as well.

Somewhere out there is a tree tireless producing oxygen so you can breathe. I think you owe that tree an apology.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I find it most rational to live and think as amorally as possible.

Exactly my point: half-witted, rotten, no good, four-flushing, snake-licking, sleezy, slimy, dirt-eating, inbred, ignorant, blood-sucking individuals like you tend to believe that.


So glad you dropped by to serve as an example.

 

[dilloduck]

Because "It's wrong to kill because it's a dick move" is exactly the same as "It's wrong to kill because God said so".

a dick move ? I guess men everywhere should be outraged.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I find it most rational to live and think as amorally as possible.

Are you a corporation?

OK...that was clever.
Funny.

 

[Wry Catcher]

ok--- then an atheist rationale for laws prohibiting murder

It's wrong to hurt people and there is no greater way to hurt someone than to snuff out their life.

Why is it wrong to hurt someone I the next question you're likely to ask. I'm not a philosopher and so I can't articulate the answer except to say it just is. I don't need orders from a supernatural being to know not to be a dick.

This is turning out to be tougher than I thought----either that or secularists have no answer. NO----that's not what I'm asking.
What is the rational basis for having laws prohibiting murder ? Not the religious or moral one---the RATIONAL one as it pertains to the OP.

Both the rational and pragmatic basis for the rule of law is to prevent chaos. Of course laws are made by mankind and thus are not perfect.