Reconstructing Q: Some Research Done

[hobelim]

So it may but the earliest dates I can find for the Torah are after 800 BCE. Much of the Bible takes place before that time.

If you believe God dictated the Torah why did he choose to plagiarize some of the stories?

The Mesopotamian work known as the Sargon Birth Legend offers the most striking parallels to the Exodus account of Moses’ birth. It relates the birth story of Sargon the Great, an Akkadian emperor who ruled a number of Sumerian city-states around 2300 BCE, around 800 years before Moses. The infant boy is born into great peril: His mother is a high priestess, and he is illegitimate. As a result of these circumstances, his mother decides to place him on a river in a reed basket. The boy is rescued and raised by a gardener named Akki. He lives as a modest gardener in Akki’s service until the goddess Ishtar takes an interest in him, and puts him on a path to kingship.​

Genesis Chapter 10.
They plagiarized the Torah.
I posteda dissertation on this last year.
I'll explain but I'm on the road at the moment.

I hope to get a chance to see it.

I will take one of a multitude of paths.
God created man and, from that man, the perfect partner.
God gave the man a command (concerning the Tree).
God commanded both of them to have children and master existence.
The man gave his partner the command concerning the Tree but altered it.
The Nah-chash took advantage of this alteration and both the man and the woman breached this line item of the contract.
When confronted by God, Adam passes the buck by telling God that the perfect partner he was given is imperfect.

Imagine Adam telling this episode to Cain and Hevel.
Which version does Adam relate?
Adam's version which Adam told God?
Or the chain of actual facts?

I don't know...because Cain and Hevel eventually got into a fight, probably by fabricating their own versions of reality, and a murder was committed.

Noach's family leaves the Teh-vah and go their separate ways.
Everybody, including Noach, enjoys wine and sex.
So everybody starts their own media outlet.

Nothing is new under the sun.

A "perfect" partner? Apparently not so perfect. Eve wanted knowledge, which made your god (s) very angry.

A rather poor observation.
God commands the first woman to master the universe.
God does not want humans to break the contract.
Instant Karma, so to speak, is never ever lasting.

Not to mention the forbidden fruit was from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Every other tree in eden had fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat....

 

[Indeependent]

With so many copies of the NT available, much older than the newest Torah, why not a bunch of hair-brained idiotic conspiratard theories about it from Rosie and the other mental cases? They would have far more arguments from silence to work with there, obviously.

We have plenty of, mostly, fragments of the NT but none of them agree with any of the others. Mostly typos of course but also some serious changes and additions to tweak the theology. Another term for hair-brained idiotic conspiratard, in this case at least, is scholar.

The NT does not mandate studying the NT so accuracy is irrelevant.

The fact is most of the 'books' were already accepted before 100 A.D.; they are closer to their origins than any other text surviving, outside of those that are currently found in caves and the like, and from Ireland to the Coptic countries, and east to India, they all pretty much overwhelmingly agree, outside of a few minor snivels, like the one over Hebrews, and Peter II, etc., which is a clear indication they weren't susceptible to fakes and forgeries, something that annoys the Gnostic faddists who follow the conspiracy theories, and the discredited Bauer school and Pagel's careerist nonsense. You can be confident you're getting accurate translations; the bad ones and the fake ones get caught pretty easily. They pass all the tests. Whether one is a believer or not is a separate and personal issue, not an historical one, nor is one going to find any major problems with the western NT's having 27 books versus the Eastern NT's having 22 for the most part either; the eastern churches had stricter standards, but still consider the five they rejected as worthy of reading on their own, like the Shepherd Of Hermas, for instance.

Nah!
They were not considered devine and nobody went out of their way to preserve them.
Preserving papyrus was a very expensive endeavor.

They were preserved by recopying them as needed, yes; papyrus deteriorates rapidly by handling and traveling around. There are many methods historians use to establish provenances for texts. There was no 'canon', it wasn't thought necessary, until Marcion created his own, and they thought they needed to protect against his warped one, so they set about very early at the task, long before Nicea.

They were "preserved" is more appropriate.

 

[Indeependent]

Genesis Chapter 10.
They plagiarized the Torah.
I posteda dissertation on this last year.
I'll explain but I'm on the road at the moment.

I hope to get a chance to see it.

I will take one of a multitude of paths.
God created man and, from that man, the perfect partner.
God gave the man a command (concerning the Tree).
God commanded both of them to have children and master existence.
The man gave his partner the command concerning the Tree but altered it.
The Nah-chash took advantage of this alteration and both the man and the woman breached this line item of the contract.
When confronted by God, Adam passes the buck by telling God that the perfect partner he was given is imperfect.

Imagine Adam telling this episode to Cain and Hevel.
Which version does Adam relate?
Adam's version which Adam told God?
Or the chain of actual facts?

I don't know...because Cain and Hevel eventually got into a fight, probably by fabricating their own versions of reality, and a murder was committed.

Noach's family leaves the Teh-vah and go their separate ways.
Everybody, including Noach, enjoys wine and sex.
So everybody starts their own media outlet.

Nothing is new under the sun.

A "perfect" partner? Apparently not so perfect. Eve wanted knowledge, which made your god (s) very angry.

A rather poor observation.
God commands the first woman to master the universe.
God does not want humans to break the contract.
Instant Karma, so to speak, is never ever lasting.

Not to mention the forbidden fruit was from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Every other tree in eden had fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat....

TTOGAE!!!

 

[alang1216]

With so many copies of the NT available, much older than the newest Torah, why not a bunch of hair-brained idiotic conspiratard theories about it from Rosie and the other mental cases? They would have far more arguments from silence to work with there, obviously.

We have plenty of, mostly, fragments of the NT but none of them agree with any of the others. Mostly typos of course but also some serious changes and additions to tweak the theology. Another term for hair-brained idiotic conspiratard, in this case at least, is scholar.

The NT does not mandate studying the NT so accuracy is irrelevant.

The fact is most of the 'books' were already accepted before 100 A.D.; they are closer to their origins than any other text surviving, outside of those that are currently found in caves and the like, and from Ireland to the Coptic countries, and east to India, they all pretty much overwhelmingly agree, outside of a few minor snivels, like the one over Hebrews, and Peter II, etc., which is a clear indication they weren't susceptible to fakes and forgeries, something that annoys the Gnostic faddists who follow the conspiracy theories, and the discredited Bauer school and Pagel's careerist nonsense. You can be confident you're getting accurate translations; the bad ones and the fake ones get caught pretty easily. They pass all the tests. Whether one is a believer or not is a separate and personal issue, not an historical one, nor is one going to find any major problems with the western NT's having 27 books versus the Eastern NT's having 22 for the most part either; the eastern churches had stricter standards, but still consider many of those they rejected as worthy of reading on their own, like the Shepherd Of Hermas, for instance; both 'sides' rejected it for its lack of historicity, but it remained popular reading, as did the Letter to the Laodecans and other writings.

Many scholars take Mark 16:8 as the original ending and believe that the longer ending (16:9-20) was a later addition.

Authorship of six of Paul the Apostle's letters has been questioned by some scholars, according to E. P. Sanders.[10] The six disputed ones are Epistle to the Ephesians, Epistle to the Colossians, Second Epistle to the Thessalonians, First Epistle to Timothy, Second Epistle to Timothy, and Epistle to Titus. Of these, the first three are sometimes referred to as "Deutero-Pauline letters", meaning "secondary letters of Paul". They internally claim to have been written by Paul, but there is no consensus among scholars on that assertion. Those known as the "Pastoral Epistles" (Timothy, 2 Timothy, and Titus) are widely regarded as pseudographs, but certain scholars consider them genuine.[8]

From Bart Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus:
Verses that were not Originally in the New Testament
1 John 5:7 - There are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

One of the more famous stories in the Bible is the "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." incident. The next two verses that Ehrman lists are from the same encounter (from which I quote at length in the block quote).

John 8:7 - Let the one who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her.

John 8:11 - Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.

 

[ChrisL]

Genesis Chapter 10.
They plagiarized the Torah.
I posteda dissertation on this last year.
I'll explain but I'm on the road at the moment.

I hope to get a chance to see it.

I will take one of a multitude of paths.
God created man and, from that man, the perfect partner.
God gave the man a command (concerning the Tree).
God commanded both of them to have children and master existence.
The man gave his partner the command concerning the Tree but altered it.
The Nah-chash took advantage of this alteration and both the man and the woman breached this line item of the contract.
When confronted by God, Adam passes the buck by telling God that the perfect partner he was given is imperfect.

Imagine Adam telling this episode to Cain and Hevel.
Which version does Adam relate?
Adam's version which Adam told God?
Or the chain of actual facts?

I don't know...because Cain and Hevel eventually got into a fight, probably by fabricating their own versions of reality, and a murder was committed.

Noach's family leaves the Teh-vah and go their separate ways.
Everybody, including Noach, enjoys wine and sex.
So everybody starts their own media outlet.

Nothing is new under the sun.

A "perfect" partner? Apparently not so perfect. Eve wanted knowledge, which made your god (s) very angry.

A rather poor observation.
God commands the first woman to master the universe.
God does not want humans to break the contract.
Instant Karma, so to speak, is never ever lasting.

Not to mention the forbidden fruit was from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Every other tree in eden had fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat....

Seriously what kind of sick game is this entity playing? Does it not understand the nature of it's own creations? Is it a sadist? Maybe your god is actually the devil. Seems like it!

 

[hobelim]

I hope to get a chance to see it.

I will take one of a multitude of paths.
God created man and, from that man, the perfect partner.
God gave the man a command (concerning the Tree).
God commanded both of them to have children and master existence.
The man gave his partner the command concerning the Tree but altered it.
The Nah-chash took advantage of this alteration and both the man and the woman breached this line item of the contract.
When confronted by God, Adam passes the buck by telling God that the perfect partner he was given is imperfect.

Imagine Adam telling this episode to Cain and Hevel.
Which version does Adam relate?
Adam's version which Adam told God?
Or the chain of actual facts?

I don't know...because Cain and Hevel eventually got into a fight, probably by fabricating their own versions of reality, and a murder was committed.

Noach's family leaves the Teh-vah and go their separate ways.
Everybody, including Noach, enjoys wine and sex.
So everybody starts their own media outlet.

Nothing is new under the sun.

A "perfect" partner? Apparently not so perfect. Eve wanted knowledge, which made your god (s) very angry.

A rather poor observation.
God commands the first woman to master the universe.
God does not want humans to break the contract.
Instant Karma, so to speak, is never ever lasting.

Not to mention the forbidden fruit was from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Every other tree in eden had fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat....

TTOGAE!!!

I really don't understand why some people think that because God instructs people to avoid evil he is some kind of repressive bully even though the consequences for evil are self inflicted.

 

[Indeependent]

I hope to get a chance to see it.

I will take one of a multitude of paths.
God created man and, from that man, the perfect partner.
God gave the man a command (concerning the Tree).
God commanded both of them to have children and master existence.
The man gave his partner the command concerning the Tree but altered it.
The Nah-chash took advantage of this alteration and both the man and the woman breached this line item of the contract.
When confronted by God, Adam passes the buck by telling God that the perfect partner he was given is imperfect.

Imagine Adam telling this episode to Cain and Hevel.
Which version does Adam relate?
Adam's version which Adam told God?
Or the chain of actual facts?

I don't know...because Cain and Hevel eventually got into a fight, probably by fabricating their own versions of reality, and a murder was committed.

Noach's family leaves the Teh-vah and go their separate ways.
Everybody, including Noach, enjoys wine and sex.
So everybody starts their own media outlet.

Nothing is new under the sun.

A "perfect" partner? Apparently not so perfect. Eve wanted knowledge, which made your god (s) very angry.

A rather poor observation.
God commands the first woman to master the universe.
God does not want humans to break the contract.
Instant Karma, so to speak, is never ever lasting.

Not to mention the forbidden fruit was from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Every other tree in eden had fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat....

Seriously what kind of sick game is this entity playing? Does it not understand the nature of it's own creations? Is it a sadist? Maybe your god is actually the devil. Seems like it!

Then why are there so many people this sadistic God expresses his love for?

 

[ChrisL]

There are no gods. There are no devils. I can understand why people thousands of years ago may have believed in such, but you peeps have no excuses.

 

[ChrisL]

I will take one of a multitude of paths.
God created man and, from that man, the perfect partner.
God gave the man a command (concerning the Tree).
God commanded both of them to have children and master existence.
The man gave his partner the command concerning the Tree but altered it.
The Nah-chash took advantage of this alteration and both the man and the woman breached this line item of the contract.
When confronted by God, Adam passes the buck by telling God that the perfect partner he was given is imperfect.

Imagine Adam telling this episode to Cain and Hevel.
Which version does Adam relate?
Adam's version which Adam told God?
Or the chain of actual facts?

I don't know...because Cain and Hevel eventually got into a fight, probably by fabricating their own versions of reality, and a murder was committed.

Noach's family leaves the Teh-vah and go their separate ways.
Everybody, including Noach, enjoys wine and sex.
So everybody starts their own media outlet.

Nothing is new under the sun.

A "perfect" partner? Apparently not so perfect. Eve wanted knowledge, which made your god (s) very angry.

A rather poor observation.
God commands the first woman to master the universe.
God does not want humans to break the contract.
Instant Karma, so to speak, is never ever lasting.

Not to mention the forbidden fruit was from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Every other tree in eden had fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat....

Seriously what kind of sick game is this entity playing? Does it not understand the nature of it's own creations? Is it a sadist? Maybe your god is actually the devil. Seems like it!

Then why are there so many people this sadistic God expresses his love for?

There are no "expressions" of anything except for in your own mind.

 

[Indeependent]

I hope to get a chance to see it.

I will take one of a multitude of paths.
God created man and, from that man, the perfect partner.
God gave the man a command (concerning the Tree).
God commanded both of them to have children and master existence.
The man gave his partner the command concerning the Tree but altered it.
The Nah-chash took advantage of this alteration and both the man and the woman breached this line item of the contract.
When confronted by God, Adam passes the buck by telling God that the perfect partner he was given is imperfect.

Imagine Adam telling this episode to Cain and Hevel.
Which version does Adam relate?
Adam's version which Adam told God?
Or the chain of actual facts?

I don't know...because Cain and Hevel eventually got into a fight, probably by fabricating their own versions of reality, and a murder was committed.

Noach's family leaves the Teh-vah and go their separate ways.
Everybody, including Noach, enjoys wine and sex.
So everybody starts their own media outlet.

Nothing is new under the sun.

A "perfect" partner? Apparently not so perfect. Eve wanted knowledge, which made your god (s) very angry.

A rather poor observation.
God commands the first woman to master the universe.
God does not want humans to break the contract.
Instant Karma, so to speak, is never ever lasting.

Not to mention the forbidden fruit was from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Every other tree in eden had fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat....

Seriously what kind of sick game is this entity playing? Does it not understand the nature of it's own creations? Is it a sadist? Maybe your god is actually the devil. Seems like it!

Seriously, I hate all health professionals because they poke my skin, drill my teeth, perform surgery and make me do physical therapy that hurts.

Get the point?

 

[Indeependent]

A "perfect" partner? Apparently not so perfect. Eve wanted knowledge, which made your god (s) very angry.

A rather poor observation.
God commands the first woman to master the universe.
God does not want humans to break the contract.
Instant Karma, so to speak, is never ever lasting.

Not to mention the forbidden fruit was from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Every other tree in eden had fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat....

Seriously what kind of sick game is this entity playing? Does it not understand the nature of it's own creations? Is it a sadist? Maybe your god is actually the devil. Seems like it!

Then why are there so many people this sadistic God expresses his love for?

There are no "expressions" of anything except for in your own mind.

Nobody asked you to leave the club and join us on this thread.

 

[ChrisL]

I will take one of a multitude of paths.
God created man and, from that man, the perfect partner.
God gave the man a command (concerning the Tree).
God commanded both of them to have children and master existence.
The man gave his partner the command concerning the Tree but altered it.
The Nah-chash took advantage of this alteration and both the man and the woman breached this line item of the contract.
When confronted by God, Adam passes the buck by telling God that the perfect partner he was given is imperfect.

Imagine Adam telling this episode to Cain and Hevel.
Which version does Adam relate?
Adam's version which Adam told God?
Or the chain of actual facts?

I don't know...because Cain and Hevel eventually got into a fight, probably by fabricating their own versions of reality, and a murder was committed.

Noach's family leaves the Teh-vah and go their separate ways.
Everybody, including Noach, enjoys wine and sex.
So everybody starts their own media outlet.

Nothing is new under the sun.

A "perfect" partner? Apparently not so perfect. Eve wanted knowledge, which made your god (s) very angry.

A rather poor observation.
God commands the first woman to master the universe.
God does not want humans to break the contract.
Instant Karma, so to speak, is never ever lasting.

Not to mention the forbidden fruit was from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Every other tree in eden had fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat....

Seriously what kind of sick game is this entity playing? Does it not understand the nature of it's own creations? Is it a sadist? Maybe your god is actually the devil. Seems like it!

Seriously, I hate all health professionals because they poke my skin, drill my teeth, perform surgery and make me do physical therapy that hurts.

Get the point?

Throwing people into a pit of fire to be tortured and in pain forever and all eternity for not "believing" in you is quite different scenario. Lol.

Especially true, when you CREATED these people to be flawed to begin with. Holy shitskies.

 

[Indeependent]

There are no gods. There are no devils. I can understand why people thousands of years ago may have believed in such, but you peeps have no excuses.

What exactly have I foisted on your after work activities that raises such ire?

 

[ChrisL]

If there is a god and HE causes things like that to happen, then he is NOT good and he is NOT just. He is an evil and horrible monster.

 

[Indeependent]

A "perfect" partner? Apparently not so perfect. Eve wanted knowledge, which made your god (s) very angry.

A rather poor observation.
God commands the first woman to master the universe.
God does not want humans to break the contract.
Instant Karma, so to speak, is never ever lasting.

Not to mention the forbidden fruit was from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Every other tree in eden had fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat....

Seriously what kind of sick game is this entity playing? Does it not understand the nature of it's own creations? Is it a sadist? Maybe your god is actually the devil. Seems like it!

Seriously, I hate all health professionals because they poke my skin, drill my teeth, perform surgery and make me do physical therapy that hurts.

Get the point?

Throwing people into a pit of fire to be tortured and in pain forever and all eternity for not "believing" in you is quite different scenario. Lol.

Especially true, when you CREATED these people to be flawed to begin with. Holy shitskies.

I not a a Jesus guy.
Jews don't believe in that fairy tale.
It's an insult to God.

 

[hobelim]

I hope to get a chance to see it.

I will take one of a multitude of paths.
God created man and, from that man, the perfect partner.
God gave the man a command (concerning the Tree).
God commanded both of them to have children and master existence.
The man gave his partner the command concerning the Tree but altered it.
The Nah-chash took advantage of this alteration and both the man and the woman breached this line item of the contract.
When confronted by God, Adam passes the buck by telling God that the perfect partner he was given is imperfect.

Imagine Adam telling this episode to Cain and Hevel.
Which version does Adam relate?
Adam's version which Adam told God?
Or the chain of actual facts?

I don't know...because Cain and Hevel eventually got into a fight, probably by fabricating their own versions of reality, and a murder was committed.

Noach's family leaves the Teh-vah and go their separate ways.
Everybody, including Noach, enjoys wine and sex.
So everybody starts their own media outlet.

Nothing is new under the sun.

A "perfect" partner? Apparently not so perfect. Eve wanted knowledge, which made your god (s) very angry.

A rather poor observation.
God commands the first woman to master the universe.
God does not want humans to break the contract.
Instant Karma, so to speak, is never ever lasting.

Not to mention the forbidden fruit was from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Every other tree in eden had fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat....

Seriously what kind of sick game is this entity playing? Does it not understand the nature of it's own creations? Is it a sadist? Maybe your god is actually the devil. Seems like it!

lol....The story is a teaching written by men who tried to pass on hard learned lessons of the distant past so that their descendants might become more highly evolved creatures and pursue with a functioning brain the better things that life has to offer..

You cannot escape the consequences for your actions that originate in your own mind.


If you told someone engaged in self destructive behavior that unless they changed their path they would end up either dead or in jail and if they set aside your warning and ended up dead or in jail would it mean that you were punishing them or that you were some sort of sadistic devil?

 

[ChrisL]

There are no gods. There are no devils. I can understand why people thousands of years ago may have believed in such, but you peeps have no excuses.

What exactly have I foisted on your after work activities that raises such ire?

I find it quite amazing that people still believe in gods is all. Whatever floats your boat, I guess. I just get tired of hearing about it.

 

[Indeependent]

If there is a god and HE causes things like that to happen, then he is NOT good and he is NOT just. He is an evil and horrible monster.

God causes something to happen?
Humans don't determine their destiny?
Sorry, that's not how God works.

 

[Indeependent]

There are no gods. There are no devils. I can understand why people thousands of years ago may have believed in such, but you peeps have no excuses.

What exactly have I foisted on your after work activities that raises such ire?

I find it quite amazing that people still believe in gods is all. Whatever floats your boat, I guess. I just get tired of hearing about it.

Then stop hanging out with Christians.

 

[ChrisL]

I remember as a small child thinking, what is with this god character? Why is he such an asshole?