Religion/ A crutch created by man

[AVG-JOE]

The OP couldn't be much more overly simplistic than it is.

Religious belief is as old as humanity. It can be seen in the discovery of Gobekli Tepe, which predates written history by a pretty fair margin. Religion goes far further and is far more complex a societal mechanism than such a statement could begin to grasp. Ask an anthropologist about religion and see if you get such a simplistic view.

Even the most advanced civilizations of Antiquity had their pantheons and included the metaphysical with the physical in their learning and knowledge, i.e. the Greeks, the Mayans, the Romans, the Egyptians, the Incans, etc., some of which separated by vast oceans and having absolutely no influence over one another, yet they all had it. Spiritual belief/religion is a part of our DNA, partner.

But yeah, sure, religion is nothing more than a crutch. What an observation.

Well, it turns out that it is.

Religion is all about answering that pesky question "What happens when a Monkey dies?"

10,000 years of written history later and the Monkeys are no closer to an answer... perhaps it would be best left as a question.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Oh look, another religion bashing troll thread, in the religion forum.

That's great. You loons are really elevating the discussion with this stupid crap.

It's neither bashing nor trolling. It's an opinion. Don't be so close minded

I'm not close minded. But there are about 1500 threads in this forum of the same crap...personal opinions about why religion is just a rumor of a supreme being made up by a couple of guys who for some reason wanted to be killed in gruesome ways....and how everybody who believes is just not quite as smart as the ones who don't....

It's juvenile, repetitive, and old. You guys have taken over the religion forum with your shallow opinion that religion sucks. Okay, we get it. You don't believe in God. Whoopie. So if you don't believe, why are you compelled to say so..over, and over, and over, and over? And do you really think you're smarter than every single Christian that has ever walked the planet?

Really?????

What the hell SHOULD a Monkey post in the Religion Forum, if not a Monkeys opinion of religion?


My opinion remains: What happens at death is unknown and any Monkey who says that they know what happens after death is the Monkey who's deceived.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I don't need to calm down, but may I suggest you might want to.

Answer the question, if you please...do you REALLY think you are that much more knowledgeable than all the Christians since Christ? You really think your simplistic view blows the possibility of God out of the water?

Think again. And then peruse the religion forum, where you will see thread, after thread, after thread, after thread, of inflammatory, insulting, and offensive posts about how stupid and clueless Christians are...threads detailing (in broadbrush fashion and with a liberal dose of historical and scientific ignorance) how misled Christians are, while the naysayers, jeerers and anti-Christian scum are the zenith of sophistication, education and by golly just straight up superiority.

Knowledgeable? Yes. Monkeys have learned a LOT in the last 2,000 years.

Let me ask you a question... Why do you bet the one life you know you get on the promise of an after life made in one of the ancient stories? What makes the ancient story that floats your boat so special?

 

[koshergrl]

1. Men aren't monkeys. Kind of a stupid allegation to make if you are claiming to be smarter than every Christian ever born.

2. I haven't bet anything.

 

[Derideo_Te]

1. Men aren't monkeys. Kind of a stupid allegation to make if you are claiming to be smarter than every Christian ever born.

That was Monkeys with a capital "M". Mankind is just a sentient ape.

2. I haven't bet anything.

Technically you are right. You are just investing a portion of your life worshiping something that you believe exists and will reward you for that belief. Given that it is your life to do with as you wish you have that right. Others prefer that there be actual evidence before investing their own time and effort in something that has not been proven to provide the claimed benefit of an "afterlife".

 

[Agent.Tom]

No insult intended.

Good. And I didn't really think it was.

I used to be a believer. Now I'm not and this is my opinion.

We could debate that statement but that's for another thread. But I think I understand where you're coming from.

It could equally be said that believers have a high horse attitude. I don't ascribe any motive to either one.

Yes indeed. A Christian, by simply stating that anyone who is without Christ is lost (which we all believe), is--though usually unwitting--a horrible insult to the non-Christian person. You should be expected to take it as an insult.

In fact I quite regularly DEFEND CHRISTIAN POSITIONS AND BELIEFS on USMB.
But of course all that is forgotten the moment I express myself.

I hear you. I guess it's all part of the game. I try my best to be as impartial as possible but let's face it. I'm biased. I can't escape that fact. Like you, I often take positions that are not sympathetic to my brothers and sisters, but it doesn't seem to do much to convince anyone that I'm just honestly expressing myself with no agenda.

Silly one way streets

They are the main reason I hate driving in big city downtown areas. Thank goodness for the standard digital compass in my car, whenever I find myself forced to make those trips to the city.

 

[Agent.Tom]

what has religious Christianity ever accomplished - that was not accomplished by the Reformist ?

I'm not sure what you mean by that. But since I belong to both groups, do I get a gold star?

 

[Agent.Tom]

Technically you are right. You are just investing a portion of your life worshiping something that you believe exists and will reward you for that belief. Given that it is your life to do with as you wish you have that right. Others prefer that there be actual evidence before investing their own time and effort in something that has not been proven to provide the claimed benefit of an "afterlife".

There is a flaw in your statement. You evidently assume that believers have no actual evidence.

Also, I take issue with point #2 of your signature. By definition, if humans cannot accomplish something, it is impossible.

 

[koshergrl]

It doesn't take much to stump them.

Stand by for some nitwit to jump in with "God can't exist because I don't understand him!"

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It doesn't take much to stump them.

Stand by for some nitwit to jump in with "God can't exist because I don't understand him!"

Tom offered constructive discussion. You? Not so much. And that is not an indictment of christians. I'm aware of the core beliefs of Christianity and fundamentally they can lead to a healthy, happy life. If my opinion rattles you this much you need to work both on your faith and how you represent god to others Because YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

And for the record I'm not one of those people who is so presumptuous to think that my opinion can't be wrong. I just see no evidence that it is.

 

[t_polkow]

I don't need to calm down, but may I suggest you might want to.

Answer the question, if you please...do you REALLY think you are that much more knowledgeable than all the Christians since Christ? You really think your simplistic view blows the possibility of God out of the water?

Think again. And then peruse the religion forum, where you will see thread, after thread, after thread, after thread, of inflammatory, insulting, and offensive posts about how stupid and clueless Christians are...threads detailing (in broadbrush fashion and with a liberal dose of historical and scientific ignorance) how misled Christians are, while the naysayers, jeerers and anti-Christian scum are the zenith of sophistication, education and by golly just straight up superiority.

 

[BreezeWood]

what has religious Christianity ever accomplished - that was not accomplished by the Reformist ?

I'm not sure what you mean by that. But since I belong to both groups, do I get a gold star?

both groups, whichever is more convenient ... the Reformists at least have hearts.

 

[koshergrl]

I don't need to calm down, but may I suggest you might want to.

Answer the question, if you please...do you REALLY think you are that much more knowledgeable than all the Christians since Christ? You really think your simplistic view blows the possibility of God out of the water?

Think again. And then peruse the religion forum, where you will see thread, after thread, after thread, after thread, of inflammatory, insulting, and offensive posts about how stupid and clueless Christians are...threads detailing (in broadbrush fashion and with a liberal dose of historical and scientific ignorance) how misled Christians are, while the naysayers, jeerers and anti-Christian scum are the zenith of sophistication, education and by golly just straight up superiority.

Thank you for making my point, and quickly.

 

[dblack]

To explain away the things they didn't understand.

And for whatever reason even when we started to understand things we didn't give up the crutch.

I don't think we should be too hard on ourselves for that. We're only human.

I'm not even sure we should see it as a deficiency. Pretty obviously, religion has been integral to the development of civilization. But it's time we grew up and learned what it is and how it works. In particular, we need to be come to terms with how it can be, and is, used to control people.

 

[koshergrl]

Anything can be used to control people. At least if you are a Christian, you try to abide by the ten commandments and lead a good life.

What if people sought to control us using our children? Would you sterilize the world?

 

[Agent.Tom]

I will submit that if things really did happen as the bible describes, then the bible and inherent beliefs spawned by it, are precisely what we should expect.

It is not rational to conclude that nothing happened except for some misinterpreted, natural events and a bunch of fabricating and exaggeration. The events described in the bible are entirely too detailed and intertwined and related to rationally conclude such a thing.

In other words... all rhetoric stripped away... surely something happened to spawn the bible, apart from a few random thunder claps and lightning strikes.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I will submit that if things really did happen as the bible describes, then the bible and inherent beliefs spawned by it, are precisely what we should expect.

It is not rational to conclude that nothing happened except for some misinterpreted, natural events and a bunch of fabricating and exaggeration. The events described in the bible are entirely too detailed and intertwined and related to rationally conclude such a thing.

In other words... all rhetoric stripped away... surely something happened to spawn the bible, apart from a few random thunder claps and lightning strikes.

The bible seems to be a collection of myths passed down for generations prior to being put into text. On top of that the bible was written by man. A very uneducated man by todays standard. ie, chariots of fire in the sky are easily explained as asteroids or comets. Their interpretation of the unknown phenomenon they experienced explains the bible fairly well.

If it's so easy to suspend disbelief when it comes to an omnipotent being why is it so difficult to also believe that the logical counter arguments might also be possible?

 

[Agent.Tom]

The bible seems to be a collection of myths passed down for generations prior to being put into text. On top of that the bible was written by man. A very uneducated man by todays standard.

Uneducated? The bible was written by some of the most educated people of their time. They may have been ignorant of the many scientific discoveries we have made since, but, uneducated they were not.

ie, chariots of fire in the sky are easily explained as asteroids or comets. Their interpretation of the unknown phenomenon they experienced explains the bible fairly well.

They used the language and terminology that they had available at the time, to attempt to describe what they saw.

If it's so easy to suspend disbelief when it comes to an omnipotent being

But it's not easy.

why is it so difficult to also believe that the logical counter arguments might also be possible?

Christians are not bystanders who just up and decide to believe one day with no compelling reason. As Jesus and the bible clearly describe; a Christian is someone who is spiritually born again through the work of the Holy Spirit and is transformed in heart and mind; an undeniable experience that can't just be wished away or forgotten.

Every Christian has had that personal experience that validates our faith. No Agnostic or Atheist has had that incontrovertible, transformative, personal experience because if they did, they would be a Christian.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The bible seems to be a collection of myths passed down for generations prior to being put into text. On top of that the bible was written by man. A very uneducated man by todays standard.

Uneducated? The bible was written by some of the most educated people of their time. They may have been ignorant of the many scientific discoveries we have made since, but, uneducated they were not.

ie, chariots of fire in the sky are easily explained as asteroids or comets. Their interpretation of the unknown phenomenon they experienced explains the bible fairly well.

They used the language and terminology that they had available at the time, to attempt to describe what they saw.

If it's so easy to suspend disbelief when it comes to an omnipotent being

But it's not easy.

why is it so difficult to also believe that the logical counter arguments might also be possible?

Christians are not bystanders who just up and decide to believe one day with no compelling reason. As Jesus and the bible clearly describe; a Christian is someone who is spiritually born again through the work of the Holy Spirit and is transformed in heart and mind; an undeniable experience that can't just be wished away or forgotten.

Every Christian has had that personal experience that validates our faith. No Agnostic or Atheist has had that incontrovertible, transformative, personal experience because if they did, they would be a Christian.

I had that experience and I found it to be lacking of substance. Lots of nice people but no real substance. I will admit to seemingly being more content but that came at the cost of exercising my logic. With some digging you can see the EXACT SAME stories depicted in the bible were told millenia earlier in different cultures.