Religion/ A crutch created by man

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Question

If we do not know of it--does that mean it does not exist?

Of course not. But the same counter argument rings true

 

[t_polkow]

Say it isn't so!

Proof positive that there is no God! There are varying versions of the creation story! At long last, definitive proof that Christianity is a hoax. NOW everybody will surely reject it!

Understanding religious delusion
Let's imagine that I tell you the following story:

There is a man who lives at the North Pole.
He lives there with his wife and a bunch of elves.
During the year, he and the elves build toys.
Then, on Christmas Eve, he loads up a sack with all the toys.
He puts the sack in his sleigh.
He hitches up eight (or possibly nine) flying reindeer.
He then flies from house to house, landing on the rooftops of each one.
He gets out with his sack and climbs down the chimney.
He leaves toys for the children of the household.
He climbs back up the chimney, gets back in his sleigh, and flies to the next house.
He does this all around the world in one night.
Then he flies back to the North Pole to repeat the cycle next year.
This, of course, is the story of Santa Claus.
But let's say that I am an adult, and I am your friend, and I reveal to you that I believe that this story is true. I believe it with all my heart. And I try to talk about it with you and convert you to believe it as I do.

What would you think of me? You would think that I am delusional, and rightly so.


Now let me tell you one final story:

God inseminated a virgin named Mary, in order to bring his son incarnate into our world.
Mary and her fiancé, Joseph, had to travel to Bethlehem to register for the census. There Mary gave birth to the Son of God.
God put a star in the sky to guide people to the baby.
In a dream God told Joseph to take his family to Egypt. Then God stood by and watched as Herod killed thousands and thousands of babies in Israel in an attempt to kill Jesus.
As a man, God's son claimed that he was God incarnate: "I am the way, the truth and the life," he said.
This man performed many miracles. He healed lots of sick people. He turned water into wine. These miracles prove that he is God.
But he was eventually given the death sentence and killed by crucifixion.
His body was placed in a tomb.
But three days later, the tomb was empty.
And the man, alive once again but still with his wounds (so anyone who doubted could see them and touch them), appeared to many people in many places.
Then he ascended into heaven and now sits at the right hand of God the father almighty, never to be seen again.
Today you can have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus. You can pray to this man and he will answer your prayers. He will cure your diseases, rescue you from emergencies, help you make important business and family decisions, comfort you in times of worry and grief, etc.
This man will also give you eternal life, and if you are good he has a place for you in heaven after you die.
The reason we know all this is because, after the man died, four people named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote accounts of the man's life. Their written attestations are proof of the veracity of this story.
This, of course, is the story of Jesus. Do you believe this story? If you are a Christian, you probably do. I could ask you questions for hours and you will have answers for every one of them, in just the same way that I had answers for all of the Santa questions that my friend asked me in Example 1. You cannot understand how anyone could question any of it, because it is so obvious to you.
Here is the thing that I would like to help you understand: The four billion people who are not Christians look at the Christian story in exactly the same way that you look at the Santa story, the Mormon story and the Muslim story. In other words, there are four billion people who stand outside of the Christian bubble, and they can see reality clearly. The fact is, the Christian story is completely imaginary.

How do the four billion non-Christians know, with complete certainty, that the Christian story is imaginary? Because the Christian story is just like the Santa story, the Mormon story and the Muslim story. There is the magical insemination, the magical star, the magical dreams, the magical miracles, the magical resurrection, the magical ascension and so on. People outside the Christian faith look at the Christian story and note these facts:

The miracles are supposed to "prove" that Jesus is God, but, predictably, these miracles left behind no tangible evidence for us to examine and scientifically verify today. They all involved faith healings and magic tricks - see this proof.
Jesus is resurrected, but, predictably, he does not appear to anyone today - see this proof.
Jesus ascended into heaven and answers our prayers, but, predictably, when we pray to him nothing happens. We can statistically analyse prayer and find that prayers are never answered - see this proof.
The book where Matthew, Mark, Luke and John make their attestations does exist, but, predictably, it is chock full of problems and contradictions - see this proof.
And so on.
In other words, the Christian story is a fairly tale, just like the other three examples we have examined.
Now, look at what is happening inside your mind at this moment. I am using solid, verifiable evidence to show you that the Christian story is imaginary. Your rational mind can see the evidence. Four billion non-Christians would be happy to confirm for you that the Christian story is imaginary. However, if you are a practicing Christian, you can probably feel your "religious mind" overriding both your rational mind and your common sense as we speak. Why? Why were you able to use your common sense to so easily reject the Santa story, the Mormon story and the Muslim story, but when it comes to the Christian story, which is just as imaginary, you are not?

God is Imaginary - 50 simple proofs

 

[Foxfyre]

To elaborate on my last post, what if you handed a visitor to Earth, 2000 years from now, a transcript of the postings at USMB for the last five years. What would he conclude about our culture, our lifestyles, our religious and political beliefs?

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

Oh look, another religion bashing troll thread, in the religion forum.

That's great. You loons are really elevating the discussion with this stupid crap.

It's neither bashing nor trolling. It's an opinion. Don't be so close minded

So, you're open-minded? I have seen nothing that indicates that.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Oh look, another religion bashing troll thread, in the religion forum.

That's great. You loons are really elevating the discussion with this stupid crap.

It's neither bashing nor trolling. It's an opinion. Don't be so close minded

So, you're open-minded? I have seen nothing that indicates that.

That's your problem not mine. If the post where I CLEARLY stated I could be wrong doesn't prove me to be open minded then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[HUGGY]

Oh look, another religion bashing troll thread, in the religion forum.

That's great. You loons are really elevating the discussion with this stupid crap.

It's neither bashing nor trolling. It's an opinion. Don't be so close minded

I'm not close minded. But there are about 1500 threads in this forum of the same crap...personal opinions about why religion is just a rumor of a supreme being made up by a couple of guys who for some reason wanted to be killed in gruesome ways....and how everybody who believes is just not quite as smart as the ones who don't....

It's juvenile, repetitive, and old. You guys have taken over the religion forum with your shallow opinion that religion sucks. Okay, we get it. You don't believe in God. Whoopie. So if you don't believe, why are you compelled to say so..over, and over, and over, and over? And do you really think you're smarter than every single Christian that has ever walked the planet?


Really?????

Yes.... really.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I will submit that if things really did happen as the bible describes, then the bible and inherent beliefs spawned by it, are precisely what we should expect.

It is not rational to conclude that nothing happened except for some misinterpreted, natural events and a bunch of fabricating and exaggeration. The events described in the bible are entirely too detailed and intertwined and related to rationally conclude such a thing.

In other words... all rhetoric stripped away... surely something happened to spawn the bible, apart from a few random thunder claps and lightning strikes.

Perhaps, but can only part of The Bible be 'sacred'?

If every word isn't the living Word of God, can any of it be trusted?

Is it up to the Monkeys to determine which ancient words are 'inspired'?

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

It's neither bashing nor trolling. It's an opinion. Don't be so close minded

So, you're open-minded? I have seen nothing that indicates that.

That's your problem not mine. If the post where I CLEARLY stated I could be wrong doesn't prove me to be open minded then I don't know what to tell you.

There is nothing to tell. Your OP clearly establishes your posture, and the vast majority of the rest of your input furthers it. You clearly want to start a fight with religious people with a bumper sticker-like platitude of ridicule and then call them closed-minded when they respond unfavorably. I would imagine it's fun for you. "Religion is a crutch" is a shallow observation of a cultural constant that has been around since pre-history. If that is your observation, then fine. I'm saying it is shallow and closed-minded. Including a "I could be wrong" somewhere in the midst of it doesn't exactly add anything to the equation.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I will submit that if things really did happen as the bible describes, then the bible and inherent beliefs spawned by it, are precisely what we should expect.

It is not rational to conclude that nothing happened except for some misinterpreted, natural events and a bunch of fabricating and exaggeration. The events described in the bible are entirely too detailed and intertwined and related to rationally conclude such a thing.

In other words... all rhetoric stripped away... surely something happened to spawn the bible, apart from a few random thunder claps and lightning strikes.

Perhaps, but can only part of The Bible be 'sacred'?

If every word isn't the living Word of God, can any of it be trusted?

Is it up to the Monkeys to determine which ancient words are 'inspired'?

Are you constantly referring to my avatar or evolution?

 

[HUGGY]

I will submit that if things really did happen as the bible describes, then the bible and inherent beliefs spawned by it, are precisely what we should expect.

It is not rational to conclude that nothing happened except for some misinterpreted, natural events and a bunch of fabricating and exaggeration. The events described in the bible are entirely too detailed and intertwined and related to rationally conclude such a thing.

In other words... all rhetoric stripped away... surely something happened to spawn the bible, apart from a few random thunder claps and lightning strikes.

Perhaps, but can only part of The Bible be 'sacred'?

If every word isn't the living Word of God, can any of it be trusted?

Is it up to the Monkeys to determine which ancient words are 'inspired'?

The whole "word of god" thingy is suspect. Take Moses's tablets.... You would think an all knowing all doing god would come up with something that only a god could have created. Like titanium or stainless steel tablets ... one would think... The chiseled stone tablets are a bit hokey if ya axe me. Prolly something Mooses could have done by himself or brought along a stone cutter to do while they were taking notes about the commandments. I can see it now... "UUMMMmm...God...could you talk more slowly???"

 

[AVG-JOE]

I will submit that if things really did happen as the bible describes, then the bible and inherent beliefs spawned by it, are precisely what we should expect.

It is not rational to conclude that nothing happened except for some misinterpreted, natural events and a bunch of fabricating and exaggeration. The events described in the bible are entirely too detailed and intertwined and related to rationally conclude such a thing.

In other words... all rhetoric stripped away... surely something happened to spawn the bible, apart from a few random thunder claps and lightning strikes.

Perhaps, but can only part of The Bible be 'sacred'?

If every word isn't the living Word of God, can any of it be trusted?

Is it up to the Monkeys to determine which ancient words are 'inspired'?

Are you constantly referring to my avatar or evolution?

It's my term of endearment for 'people'.

Monkey with a capital 'M'.

As in “ape who is Sentient”.

Dance Monkeys, Dance.

 

[koshergrl]

No monkeys here.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

So, you're open-minded? I have seen nothing that indicates that.

That's your problem not mine. If the post where I CLEARLY stated I could be wrong doesn't prove me to be open minded then I don't know what to tell you.

There is nothing to tell. Your OP clearly establishes your posture, and the vast majority of the rest of your input furthers it. You clearly want to start a fight with religious people with a bumper sticker-like platitude of ridicule and then call them closed-minded when they respond unfavorably. I would imagine it's fun for you. "Religion is a crutch" is a shallow observation of a cultural constant that has been around since pre-history. If that is your observation, then fine. I'm saying it is shallow and closed-minded. Including a "I could be wrong" somewhere in the midst of it doesn't exactly add anything to the equation.

My op establishes my opinion. My secondary comment about it being possible that im wrong establishes my open mindedness without detracting from my opinion. To say otherwise is to say that unless I believe as you do im closeminded and frankly just stupid.
As to your opinion of why I posted this I really don't care.

 

[koshergrl]

You are close minded.

And your OP is just opinion, no more valid than JJ's opinion.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

You are close minded.

And your OP is just opinion, no more valid than JJ's opinion.

You're correct about my opinion but your judgment of me is quite ironic considering what your faith teaches. Surprised I am not since you have established your short temper in this thread.

 

[Foxfyre]

That's your problem not mine. If the post where I CLEARLY stated I could be wrong doesn't prove me to be open minded then I don't know what to tell you.

There is nothing to tell. Your OP clearly establishes your posture, and the vast majority of the rest of your input furthers it. You clearly want to start a fight with religious people with a bumper sticker-like platitude of ridicule and then call them closed-minded when they respond unfavorably. I would imagine it's fun for you. "Religion is a crutch" is a shallow observation of a cultural constant that has been around since pre-history. If that is your observation, then fine. I'm saying it is shallow and closed-minded. Including a "I could be wrong" somewhere in the midst of it doesn't exactly add anything to the equation.

My op establishes my opinion. My secondary comment about it being possible that im wrong establishes my open mindedness without detracting from my opinion. To say otherwise is to say that unless I believe as you do im closeminded and frankly just stupid.
As to your opinion of why I posted this I really don't care.

But again for grins and giggles, you base your opinion on what you think the religious' interpretation of the Scriptures is. If an advanced alien species visited Earth and the only thing they had to evaluate our culture, beliefs, lifestyle, etc. with was five years of transcripts of USMB postings, what do you think they would conclude about us?

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

That's your problem not mine. If the post where I CLEARLY stated I could be wrong doesn't prove me to be open minded then I don't know what to tell you.

There is nothing to tell. Your OP clearly establishes your posture, and the vast majority of the rest of your input furthers it. You clearly want to start a fight with religious people with a bumper sticker-like platitude of ridicule and then call them closed-minded when they respond unfavorably. I would imagine it's fun for you. "Religion is a crutch" is a shallow observation of a cultural constant that has been around since pre-history. If that is your observation, then fine. I'm saying it is shallow and closed-minded. Including a "I could be wrong" somewhere in the midst of it doesn't exactly add anything to the equation.

My op establishes my opinion. My secondary comment about it being possible that im wrong establishes my open mindedness without detracting from my opinion. To say otherwise is to say that unless I believe as you do im closeminded and frankly just stupid.
As to your opinion of why I posted this I really don't care.

That's bullshit. If you didn't care then why did you post in on a message board? You want to ridicule a certain section of society and make them feel stupid. That is obvious. Just be honest about it.

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

You are close minded.

And your OP is just opinion, no more valid than JJ's opinion.

Exactly my point.

What's most laughable is that he probably feels he has made a profound statement in the OP that will confound and shame Christians while making atheists marvel at his wit. He has done neither, except perhaps to the most dimwitted of either set of people.

 

[HUGGY]

It's really very simple. Death terrifies. What makes these Christians and others cling desperately to religion is that most philosophies promise more than death..the end. If you do this or that you will get eternal existance. It is hard to seperate someone that believes in this promise from this possibility...this cold reality.

Atheism offers no such benefit. There is no prize to facing death as the absolute end save the memories of those you leave behind. I understand completely the stark realization of death and the fear of those that want to deny it hold.

If it was just the bible without the promise of everlasting spiritual existance it would be a lot easier to rationally look at the nonsense displayed in the scriptures.

More than death alone there is the promise of meeting those that have died before and those they know and love and want those relationships to resume in heaven.

This is a powerfull inticement ..this promise of heaven. Once convinced of this ultimate prize I'm sure it is all consuming to do anything requested to be "on the list".

I find it kindof sad...more than that a tragedy that so many could be so easily duped into this scam. As a non believer I can only shake my head in amazement and attempt to bravely face my own eventual demise knowing there is no door prize for having lived.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

There is nothing to tell. Your OP clearly establishes your posture, and the vast majority of the rest of your input furthers it. You clearly want to start a fight with religious people with a bumper sticker-like platitude of ridicule and then call them closed-minded when they respond unfavorably. I would imagine it's fun for you. "Religion is a crutch" is a shallow observation of a cultural constant that has been around since pre-history. If that is your observation, then fine. I'm saying it is shallow and closed-minded. Including a "I could be wrong" somewhere in the midst of it doesn't exactly add anything to the equation.

My op establishes my opinion. My secondary comment about it being possible that im wrong establishes my open mindedness without detracting from my opinion. To say otherwise is to say that unless I believe as you do im closeminded and frankly just stupid.
As to your opinion of why I posted this I really don't care.

But again for grins and giggles, you base your opinion on what you think the religious' interpretation of the Scriptures is. If an advanced alien species visited Earth and the only thing they had to evaluate our culture, beliefs, lifestyle, etc. with was five years of transcripts of USMB postings, what do you think they would conclude about us?

That this was a diverse planet with diverse opinions.

The thing about opinions is they don't require proof unless they are portrayed as fact based.

And to be clear my op was more a statement of what I thought of ancient culrures and why their beliefs were formed to begin with.