Republicans oppose economic stimulus

[asterism]

Without innovation there will be no increased demand.

Untrue, in fact, the exact opposite is true: without increased demand there will be no innovation. Also no further investment in the old ho-hum not-so-innovative parts of the economy. When people have no money to spend, not only are there no customers for mundane ordinary business, but people also have no money to spend on innovative products. Innovation is a child of good times, not bad ones.

That's where I think you are incorrect. First, you say that people have "no money to spend on innovative products." That's patently untrue. While the economy isn't growing, there's still LOTS of money being spent. iPhones still sell like gangbusters, Android has all but shorn up the anti-iPhone market, and Roku has tripled their sales.

Second, innovation is not a child of good times, it's the forerunner of them. From the industrial revolution to the dawn of technology, innovation led the way.

You are free to disagree, but tell me about those "good times" when e-commerce was created in 1993. What were the "good times" that were around in 2001 when the Internet was truly tapped for small business marketing?

 

[8537]

Taxes don't come from overseas investors, they come from US citizens and corporations mainly. Are you suggesting we simply borrow the money for stimulus? Is that your plan?

Yes, that's how stimulus spending works during a recession.

If so, tell me how will you be paying the $131,500 you owe now, much less the higher amount that will result from more borrowing? Or, should we simply let the next generation deal with that burden?

Failing to stimulate the economy will simply increase the debt load higher as revenues continue to falter and the the automatic stabilizers continue to be needed. Borrowing at below zero real rates won't create a "burden for the next generation".

You clearly have never studied Keynesian economics much less that of the Austrian or Chicago schools.

Fucking hilarious!

Again, we would have had to run a surplus during all the economic expansion that took place over the last 30 years in order for temporary stimulus via borrowed money to work...according to Keynes.

No, that's not what Keynes said. I can't be held accoutable for your misunderstanding. Please point to that section of the General Theory for me - because I've read it, and that part must have been left out of my edition.

Stimulating the economy will NOT happen with more money borrowed, regardless of the rate.

That's the ONLY way it will work. Using tax revenue slows the economy.

Otherwise, the last stimulus would not have resulting in a net increase in the unemployment rate and a slowing of the economy.

The economy was shrinking at a SAAR of 7% when the stimulus passed. It is now in the fifith straight quarter of expansion and has trended above that -7 figure ever since it passed.

We'll stimulate the economy in 2013 when you central planner fucks are out of office.

Wow! You're angry Sean Hannity listener! Been trained well.

 

[Oddball]

WWII was a time of shortages, rationing, scrap drives for every kind of industrial raw material imaginable, high inflation and taxation, for starters....

The inflation was a good thing, needed to correct the systemic deflation of the Depression. The taxation was a necessary thing, unless we wanted to do it all through deficit spending. The rest was irrelevant, except that it served to increase consumer demand after the war still further -- but just having plenty of money in people's pockets would have done that sufficiently.

Right...More broken windows = prosperity...Already been debunked beyond repair.

War bonds represented deficit spending. It was an investment, just like U.S. bonds are today. We've never managed to fight a major war without borrowing money.

Wait a minute...I thought you said that the war bonds were necessary to prevent deficit spending, yet their existence represents deficit spending.

Which way do you want it, besides both ways?

If that's economic recovery, I don't want to see the bad times.

And yet it's not hard to see the bad times. Just look back a few years and you find double-digit unemployment, bread lines, Hoovervilles, and all those government work-relief programs needed to give people enough to survive. Things got better still after the war was over, but economically they were a lot better during the war than before. (Of course, for some 300,000 American servicemen, there was no after the war. You can't evaluate it purely in economic terms.)

Uh-huh...So you replace Hoovervilles with international military conflagration, tens of millions dead, maimed, displaced and generally traumatized, for your "economic stimulus"...Some trade.

I have an idea...How 'bout you go to Bedford, VA, next 6 June, and give them an address about how great an economic boon that Easy Red sector at Omaha was to their economic well being?

Germany and Japan didn't build their massive war machines with box tops and Gold Bond stamps.

Those "massive war machines" were pissant compared to the one we built. We did win the war, after all. And we won it by outproducing the enemy.

Irrelevant to the fact that they built war machines that easily outclassed almost everything America could throw at them at the outset...They didn't do so by being industrial midgets and dilettantes.

 

[Intense]

Those "massive war machines" were pissant compared to the one we built. We did win the war, after all. And we won it by outproducing the enemy.

Lame assertion.
We won because of production. Our factories were out of range of German Bombers. That and Hitler being his own worse enemy.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4EASQJ0vJk]The Messerschmitt Me 262 spooks USAAF bomber - YouTube[/ame]
The Messerschmitt Me 262 spooks USAAF bomber

Pretty untouchable, unless you caught them taking off or landing. Hitler played that card very poorly, thank God for our side.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoyW83fdJi4]Top Ten Tanks- #3: Tiger - YouTube[/ame]
Top Ten Tanks- #3: Tiger

Kicked Ass until Germany could not afford to keep them fueled or armed. Again, Thank God Hitler bit off more than he could chew.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSXaF18QFDk&feature=watch_response]Battleship Bismarck, terror of the North Sea - YouTube[/ame]
Battleship Bismarck, terror of the North Sea

Out Classed everything around it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vQ8uWHo4uw]German U-boat in action 1941 - YouTube[/ame]
German U-boat in action 1941
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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrsWaHex_BU&feature=related]German rail guns DORA & LEOPOLD of ww2 - YouTube[/ame]
German rail guns DORA & LEOPOLD of ww2
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[eflatminor]

You missed the entire point of my argument because you chose to skip the hard question:

"I suppose you will be paying your $131,500 you owe, correct?"

Well, what's it to be, cash or check?

 

[oreo]

It appears as if Republicans are against any attempt to revive the economy

Fed chairman gets letter from GOP leaders: No stimulus - Yahoo! Finance

And so is BILL CLINTON If the FED keeps manipulating our currency--we are going to be paying a very heavy price down the road. These short term fixes are not working--in fact they are only making the economic situation WORSE--thereby making harder for us to come out of this mess.

The federal government needs to get the HELL out of the way--and let the PRIVATE SECTOR fix this. Just turn the American people loose and they'll fix it.

 

[editec]

It appears as if Republicans are against any attempt to revive the economy

Fed chairman gets letter from GOP leaders: No stimulus - Yahoo! Finance

And so is BILL CLINTON If the FED keeps manipulating our currency--we are going to be paying a very heavy price down the road. These short term fixes are not working--in fact they are only making the economic situation WORSE--thereby making harder for us to come out of this mess.

The federal government needs to get the HELL out of the way--and let the PRIVATE SECTOR fix this. Just turn the American people loose and they'll fix it.

View attachment 15284

The private sector, and the government it controls, is responsible for this mess.

Doubt me?

Read a book.

 

[8537]

No, they kept rates too high initially and failed to arrest the housing collapse. That created a new equilibrium employment and output well below the previous, a state of affairs that some smart economist you might know predicted would occur.


Lol, Rabbi's a birther too! How precious.

I dont feel like dealing with your ignorant shit today. Go read this:
Japan Economy History
Note especially his points about financial distress, fiscal policy and monetary policy. Note where the debt to GDP has ended up in Japan.
That's where we're headed with Obama. Oh, have you seen his college transcripts? Nope, neither has anyone else. Undocumented.

ah yes! Some random guy's powerpoint presenation! You're a peach, Rabbi. A complete fucking idiot, but a peach.

I notice you don't bother to challenge the fact that government spending only increased at about 2% per year, that the nation responded far too slowly to a housing collapse and that Japan kept interest rates too high - instead, you find some guy's powerpoint presentation and accept it as fact because, well....because it fits your preconceived notions hand-delivered to you by Fox news and Sean Hannity.

...and, having been completely owned by the link he himself provided, Rabbi quits debating the facts and resorts to neg repping me (for about the 15th time).

How sad.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

No stimulus. Fire thousands of Government workers. Cut Social security, Medicare, Medicaid. Eliminate food stamps. eliminate the national parks, NASA, Dept of Education. Sounds like a return to 1900 America to me.

1900? You'd better go take a few history lessons.

 

[The Rabbi]

I dont feel like dealing with your ignorant shit today. Go read this:
Japan Economy History
Note especially his points about financial distress, fiscal policy and monetary policy. Note where the debt to GDP has ended up in Japan.
That's where we're headed with Obama. Oh, have you seen his college transcripts? Nope, neither has anyone else. Undocumented.

ah yes! Some random guy's powerpoint presenation! You're a peach, Rabbi. A complete fucking idiot, but a peach.

I notice you don't bother to challenge the fact that government spending only increased at about 2% per year, that the nation responded far too slowly to a housing collapse and that Japan kept interest rates too high - instead, you find some guy's powerpoint presentation and accept it as fact because, well....because it fits your preconceived notions hand-delivered to you by Fox news and Sean Hannity.

...and, having been completely owned by the link he himself provided, Rabbi quits debating the facts and resorts to neg repping me (for about the 15th time).

How sad.

Geezus what an idiot.
The link, which you disparaged, proved what I wrote. I invited you to provide your own evidence. Instead you caterwaul that I've been owned.
Moron. You should be neg repped into the next county.
Heres the ad by Cato signed by 200 economists opposing the original stimulus. Note their mention of Japan as a model not to be followed. Moron.
http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus09/cato_stimulus.pdf

 

[Maple]

It appears as if Republicans are against any attempt to revive the economy

Fed chairman gets letter from GOP leaders: No stimulus - Yahoo! Finance

Yes we do, the first one the 787 billion dollar stimulus plan failed, no new jobs created, the fed is printing money, distributing it, deflating the value of our dollar, and this is why you are paying more for everything from gasoline to grocery's. It's the law of supply and demand- the more there is of something, the less value it has, the less you have of something, the greater the value. It's that simple. The fed printing money, is causing massive inflation on consumer products.

 

[8537]

ah yes! Some random guy's powerpoint presenation! You're a peach, Rabbi. A complete fucking idiot, but a peach.

I notice you don't bother to challenge the fact that government spending only increased at about 2% per year, that the nation responded far too slowly to a housing collapse and that Japan kept interest rates too high - instead, you find some guy's powerpoint presentation and accept it as fact because, well....because it fits your preconceived notions hand-delivered to you by Fox news and Sean Hannity.

...and, having been completely owned by the link he himself provided, Rabbi quits debating the facts and resorts to neg repping me (for about the 15th time).

How sad.

Geezus what an idiot.
The link, which you disparaged, proved what I wrote.

No, it didn't - as a matter of fact, I directly quoted the sections that confirmed exactly what I had stated.

in other words, you provided a link that confirmed my point. As thanks, you neg repped me. I would expect nothing different from you.

Heres the ad by Cato signed by 200 economists opposing the original stimulus.

Wait, CATO opposed government intervention? Color me surprised.

Note their mention of Japan as a model not to be followed. Moron.
http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus09/cato_stimulus.pdf

What exactly do you suppose that supports? The facts, as even presented in your link, are that Japan was too slow too arrest the housing collapse, kept rates too high at the beginning of the crisis and used an alleged fiscal stimulus that led to an increase in government of less than 2% per annum during the decade in question.

But hey, you just believe what the radio tells you to believe and don't let facts get in the way. I mean really, stimulus was pushed by a black guy and when you start from your premise that blacks are incapable of leading it's easy to arrive at the conclusion that the policy mustn't work.

 

[8537]

The fed printing money, is causing massive inflation on consumer products.

If you define 3.8% as "massive" then you have a point.

 

[The Rabbi]

...and, having been completely owned by the link he himself provided, Rabbi quits debating the facts and resorts to neg repping me (for about the 15th time).

How sad.

Geezus what an idiot.
The link, which you disparaged, proved what I wrote.

No, it didn't - as a matter of fact, I directly quoted the sections that confirmed exactly what I had stated.

in other words, you provided a link that confirmed my point. As thanks, you neg repped me. I would expect nothing different from you.

Heres the ad by Cato signed by 200 economists opposing the original stimulus.

Wait, CATO opposed government intervention? Color me surprised.

Note their mention of Japan as a model not to be followed. Moron.
http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus09/cato_stimulus.pdf

What exactly do you suppose that supports? The facts, as even presented in your link, are that Japan was too slow too arrest the housing collapse, kept rates too high at the beginning of the crisis and used an alleged fiscal stimulus that led to an increase in government of less than 2% per annum during the decade in question.

But hey, you just believe what the radio tells you to believe and don't let facts get in the way. I mean really, stimulus was pushed by a black guy and when you start from your premise that blacks are incapable of leading it's easy to arrive at the conclusion that the policy mustn't work.

Well, Obama is hardly disproving what you think I wrote.

Anyway, you conveniently leave out that debt is now well over 100% of GDP in Japan,thanks to stimulus after stimulus that failed. Just as Obama's stimulus programs are failing.

 

[Maple]

The fed printing money, is causing massive inflation on consumer products.

If you define 3.8% as "massive" then you have a point.

Gasoline and grocery's are not counted in the inflation report, they convieniently did that after Carter's massive inflation rate.

Have you been to a gasoline pump or bought food at a grocery store lately? There it is baby and it's in your face.

Japan's lost decade, interest rates at almost zero and they still can't get the Japanese to borrow money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decade_(Japan)

 

[8537]

Geezus what an idiot.
The link, which you disparaged, proved what I wrote.

No, it didn't - as a matter of fact, I directly quoted the sections that confirmed exactly what I had stated.

in other words, you provided a link that confirmed my point. As thanks, you neg repped me. I would expect nothing different from you.



Wait, CATO opposed government intervention? Color me surprised.

Note their mention of Japan as a model not to be followed. Moron.
http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus09/cato_stimulus.pdf

What exactly do you suppose that supports? The facts, as even presented in your link, are that Japan was too slow too arrest the housing collapse, kept rates too high at the beginning of the crisis and used an alleged fiscal stimulus that led to an increase in government of less than 2% per annum during the decade in question.

But hey, you just believe what the radio tells you to believe and don't let facts get in the way. I mean really, stimulus was pushed by a black guy and when you start from your premise that blacks are incapable of leading it's easy to arrive at the conclusion that the policy mustn't work.

Well, Obama is hardly disproving what you think I wrote.

Anyway, you conveniently leave out that debt is now well over 100% of GDP in Japan,thanks to stimulus after stimulus that failed. Just as Obama's stimulus programs are failing.

And you conveniently continue to lie. As an example, government spending under President Bush and a Republican congress expanded far faster than during the period of stimulus in Japan - but I've never heard you refer to the failed stimulus program under the Bush administration.

But hey, keep providing links that prove my point. I appreciate the support.

 

[8537]

The fed printing money, is causing massive inflation on consumer products.

If you define 3.8% as "massive" then you have a point.

Gasoline and grocery's are not counted in the inflation report, they convieniently did that after Carter's massive inflation rate.

That 3.8% rate is inclusive of food and energy.

Without it, the rate is 2.0%.

 

[whitehall]

It's not stimulous it's theft. Government doesn't create jobs, it can't unless it confiscates money from one segment of society and gives it to another. That's a zero sum gain. Barry fast tracked a half a billion dollar loan to a failing company that was heavily invested by democrat doners. Is that the kind of stimulous libs want?

 

[The Rabbi]

No, it didn't - as a matter of fact, I directly quoted the sections that confirmed exactly what I had stated.

in other words, you provided a link that confirmed my point. As thanks, you neg repped me. I would expect nothing different from you.



Wait, CATO opposed government intervention? Color me surprised.



What exactly do you suppose that supports? The facts, as even presented in your link, are that Japan was too slow too arrest the housing collapse, kept rates too high at the beginning of the crisis and used an alleged fiscal stimulus that led to an increase in government of less than 2% per annum during the decade in question.

But hey, you just believe what the radio tells you to believe and don't let facts get in the way. I mean really, stimulus was pushed by a black guy and when you start from your premise that blacks are incapable of leading it's easy to arrive at the conclusion that the policy mustn't work.

Well, Obama is hardly disproving what you think I wrote.

Anyway, you conveniently leave out that debt is now well over 100% of GDP in Japan,thanks to stimulus after stimulus that failed. Just as Obama's stimulus programs are failing.

And you conveniently continue to lie. As an example, government spending under President Bush and a Republican congress expanded far faster than during the period of stimulus in Japan - but I've never heard you refer to the failed stimulus program under the Bush administration.

But hey, keep providing links that prove my point. I appreciate the support.

Huh?
Which part did I lie about? Do you have evidence that Japan's debt to GDP is not nearly 200%, higher than Greece's?
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2186rank.html

I have referred to the failed Bush stimulus program. But it pales in comparison to the failed Obama stimulus program of $1T. That's ONE TRILLION DOLLARS flushed down the commode with nothing to show but waste and fraud.
If your point is that Japan kept rates artificially low for years and passed stimulus after stimulus with no effect but to push debt to monstrous levels of GDP then I am proving your point.

 

[8537]

Well, Obama is hardly disproving what you think I wrote.

Anyway, you conveniently leave out that debt is now well over 100% of GDP in Japan,thanks to stimulus after stimulus that failed. Just as Obama's stimulus programs are failing.

And you conveniently continue to lie. As an example, government spending under President Bush and a Republican congress expanded far faster than during the period of stimulus in Japan - but I've never heard you refer to the failed stimulus program under the Bush administration.

But hey, keep providing links that prove my point. I appreciate the support.

Huh?
Which part did I lie about? Do you have evidence that Japan's debt to GDP is not nearly 200%, higher than Greece's?

I never claimed differently.

you lied about the situation in Japan. Or perhaps you're just misinformed because you get all of your information from the AM Radio and Cato

You also provided a link that proved my point, which I continue to appreciate