Restaurateur Defied Maine Gov To Open His Business, State Agents Are Moving To Shut Him Down

[Rigby5]

Since when did governors become the final arbiter of who is allowed to open and who gets prosecuted for not obeying their god like orders?

Business licenses.

Yep....... of course the response to them pulling the licenses is going back to the old speakeasy model.

The vast majority of States have drive-up beer and liquor at restaurants. But you're gong to have to wait for a rub-and-tug.

The majority of businesses are still closed by illegal governor decree.
Lawyers, real estate, hair dressers, clothing stores, etc., are all closed by edict.
That is way beyond the legal authority of any governor.
Governors only have the power to make law by executive order if the legislature can't convene.

-I have an Attorney. We talk, not closed.
-Walmart sell clothes, they are open. Target sells clothes, they are open.
It is legal in all 50 States for Governors to make emergency orders. Courts have already sustained challenges.

The stay at home order specifically prohibits lawyers from opening.
If you talked on the phone or by email, that does not count because the lawyer can not represent you in court, which is all a lawyer is good for.

Walmart sells clothes by got to remain open due to selling food.
That is the whole point, that clothing stores are being unfairly closed when Walmart is allowed to sell clothes.

Target here is not open, but on line orders can be picked up only.
And that is part of the problem also, in that small stores are not allowed to be open even for on line order pickup. That is totally unfair, and clearly reflects massive bribes, since only very large stores are being allowed to open.

It is perfectly legal for governors to act to protect rights in emergencies, but not when the death rate is only 0.019%, the legislature is in session, and the orders would greatly violate individual rights, like the right to make a living in order to be able to buy food, pay the mortgage, and survive.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

“You can’t [extend the emergency order] three days before it [expires]. It doesn’t work,” Savage said. “We had food ordered. We were making chowders and chilis and all that stuff. And we’re like, ‘No, we’re opening.’ We’re clean, we can give people social distancing, we can do it right.”

Business owners and others are expected to protest against Mills’ order in Augusta on Saturday.

Restaurateur Defied Maine Gov To Open His Business, State Agents Are Moving To Shut Him Down

State officials pulled a Maine restaurant’s health and liquor licenses after the owner opened up in defiance of Democratic Gov. Janet Mills’ emergency shutdown order. Rick Savage, owner of Sunday River Brewing Co. in Bethel, opened his restaurant and bar on May 1 after openly challenging Mills...

www.dailywire.com

And that's one of the big problems facing small businesses all across the country in the face of so many politicians' indecisiveness. Our governor's initial shut down order was set to expire at midnight on May 1st and he waited until April 30th to say he was extending it to May 15th. He got a lot of criticism for that, even by the media, surprisingly, because people don't know what to expect and can't make any plans.

In Maine's case, I can't see Janet Mills' scientific justification for extending her order another month when there have only been 55 deaths in her state and it is largely rural. It doesn't make any sense and she's making these decisions all on her own without any input from the state assembly or the business community. That is not how our government is meant to function. We don't elect monarchs. We have separation of powers for a reason. It takes a lot of courage to do what Savage is doing and I hope other businesses follow suit and open up around the state as well. Too many mayors and governors are consolidating power they arguably don't have and need to be reminded who they work for.

Easy fix, the government needs to pay for taking private property

 

[Rigby5]

“You can’t [extend the emergency order] three days before it [expires]. It doesn’t work,” Savage said. “We had food ordered. We were making chowders and chilis and all that stuff. And we’re like, ‘No, we’re opening.’ We’re clean, we can give people social distancing, we can do it right.”

Business owners and others are expected to protest against Mills’ order in Augusta on Saturday.

Restaurateur Defied Maine Gov To Open His Business, State Agents Are Moving To Shut Him Down

State officials pulled a Maine restaurant’s health and liquor licenses after the owner opened up in defiance of Democratic Gov. Janet Mills’ emergency shutdown order. Rick Savage, owner of Sunday River Brewing Co. in Bethel, opened his restaurant and bar on May 1 after openly challenging Mills...

www.dailywire.com

And that's one of the big problems facing small businesses all across the country in the face of so many politicians' indecisiveness. Our governor's initial shut down order was set to expire at midnight on May 1st and he waited until April 30th to say he was extending it to May 15th. He got a lot of criticism for that, even by the media, surprisingly, because people don't know what to expect and can't make any plans.

In Maine's case, I can't see Janet Mills' scientific justification for extending her order another month when there have only been 55 deaths in her state and it is largely rural. It doesn't make any sense and she's making these decisions all on her own without any input from the state assembly or the business community. That is not how our government is meant to function. We don't elect monarchs. We have separation of powers for a reason. It takes a lot of courage to do what Savage is doing and I hope other businesses follow suit and open up around the state as well. Too many mayors and governors are consolidating power they arguably don't have and need to be reminded who they work for.

There is nothing unconstitutional about it. There are no separation of powers issues. The Governor has the power to do this in a emergency.

Except it isn't an emergency for Maine lol.

What a dumb statement

It's a NATIONAL EMERGENCY.

No one doubts it is a national emergency, but governors who lock down are ignorant and guilty of murder.
Clearly a lock down is irrational because it has no plan.
We can't wait 2 years for a vaccine, and that is the only way a lock down would make any sense.
No epidemic has ever been helped by a lock down, ever in the whole of human history.
Every epidemic has always only been halted by herd immunity, until the last 200 years, when vaccines became available.

The only one guilty of murder is your skidmark. I have four bipartisan MOC's that prove that.

Yes the lock down can easily be proven to be murder.
With no vaccine for about 2 years, then the only way to stop the deaths is herd immunity.
So the least number of deaths comes from 55% of the healthy population acquiring immunity as quickly as possible.
Any thing that slows that down will cause more unhealthy or compromised people to die unnessarily.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Since when did governors become the final arbiter of who is allowed to open and who gets prosecuted for not obeying their god like orders?

Business licenses.

4th Amendment

 

[Rigby5]

There is nothing unconstitutional about it. There are no separation of powers issues. The Governor has the power to do this in a emergency.

I'm not familiar with the Maine state constitution and I doubt you are either, hence the reason I specifically said "power they arguably don't have." Nonetheless, an emergency does not give them unlimited power to do what ever it is they want. There are limits.

Not according to that Michigan Court. That judge seems to think any "emergency" give government unlimited power with no level of scrutiny whatsoever.

The Michigan court ruled that the Governor was working within the law. How To Think About Government Emergency Powers

A Michigan gov't employee rules that a Michigan gov't employee is within the law. Color me shocked.

The Judge followed the law. Color me shocked.

The judge lied because this is not an emergency because the legislature can convene and there is no imminent invasion. In fact, which only a 0.019% death rate, there is no emergency at all, unless you to call the seasonal flu an emergency as well, since it has killed as many in some years.

And even in an emergency, the the governor can only do what actually is necessary in order to defend the rights of individuals. Since a lock down increases deaths instead of helping, then the lock down is still totally and completely illegal.

 

[Rigby5]

A state of emergency isn't declared when south Texas floods?

Completely opposite situation. The Texas governor made declarations because of the damage caused by a natural disaster so that FEMA would help with money for repairs so people could get back to living a normal life.

Money to buy food? Money to sustain businesses? Money to pay rent?

There is nothing wrong with asking for or getting temporary emergency money for food, businesses, rent, etc.
But it is illegal to declare martial law that prevents people from earning money for food, wages, rent, etc., when there are not lives at stake.
And all the models say the Lock Down does not save a single life.
They all say the Lock Down only slows the infection rate down, preventing herd immunity, thus increasing the total number of deaths.

What "models" are you looking at? I'm looking at every COUNTRY which actually instituted real lockdowns. We're reopening. We locked down in early March and we're still locked down. We have 14,000 "closed cases", and 4,000 "active cases". We're not re-opening schools until June. Construction is the first thing re-opening and that's tomorrow. All workers must be protected.

The USA has 925,000 active cases, and only 240,000 "closed" cases. Until you have more closed cases than active cases. You can't re-open without dire consequences.

And without adequate testing, you'll never re-open successfully.

TRUMP LIED AND PEOPLE DIED. THEY'RE STILL FUCKING DYING.

That makes no sense at all.
The number of closed cases is totally and completely irrelevant.
We know all the cases will be closed within 2 weeks.
It never lasts more than 2 weeks.

What matters is that the infection rate will only slow and eventually stop when you reach 55% herd immunity.
And the least dead will happen if the young and healthy get the least lethal strain as quickly as possible, so that they acquire natural immunity. The only alternative to that is waiting 2 years for a vaccine, and clearly that will kill almost 10 times more people.
No lock down can ever end an epidemic, and all it can do is slow it down.
Which is fine if you want to prevent hospital over crowding or wait for a vaccine, but neither of those is viable in this situation.
Hospitals are near empty and laying off, and there is no hope of a vaccine for years to come.

 

[Rigby5]

“We had food ordered. We were making chowders and chilis and all that stuff.

Shut them down already. I don't want food poisoning and I do want to stay clean and sober. If you can't put the food in your shopping cart, pay for it, have it bagged and take it home, you don't need to be eating out at a restaurant.

If you've got to be in business and charge people money, please do something more useful and essential than flipping burgers and sizzling steaks. Most of us are capable of doing that ourselves at a time of "social distancing" and independent living.

So then according to you, all restaurants are supposed to close down and go out of business, and the families of the owner starve to death because they can't buy food is their source of income is illegally taken away from them.
That is murder.
If the food you buy at a grocery store, like meat, is safe enough, then so is a steak cooked at a restaurant.
Restaurants have far higher health standards than meat processing plants that pay minimum wage.

 

[theHawk]

Since when did governors become the final arbiter of who is allowed to open and who gets prosecuted for not obeying their god like orders?

Exactly. Why are these new laws being allowed simply by a decree from a governor? Where are the state houses at? Why aren’t restrictions being voted on by the people? Well, we all know the answer to that, Dems could care less about the will of the people or the rights of the people. This is their chance to usurp all power, and they are taking it.

 

[Dragonlady]

A state of emergency isn't declared when south Texas floods?

Completely opposite situation. The Texas governor made declarations because of the damage caused by a natural disaster so that FEMA would help with money for repairs so people could get back to living a normal life.

Money to buy food? Money to sustain businesses? Money to pay rent?

There is nothing wrong with asking for or getting temporary emergency money for food, businesses, rent, etc.
But it is illegal to declare martial law that prevents people from earning money for food, wages, rent, etc., when there are not lives at stake.
And all the models say the Lock Down does not save a single life.
They all say the Lock Down only slows the infection rate down, preventing herd immunity, thus increasing the total number of deaths.

What "models" are you looking at? I'm looking at every COUNTRY which actually instituted real lockdowns. We're reopening. We locked down in early March and we're still locked down. We have 14,000 "closed cases", and 4,000 "active cases". We're not re-opening schools until June. Construction is the first thing re-opening and that's tomorrow. All workers must be protected.

The USA has 925,000 active cases, and only 240,000 "closed" cases. Until you have more closed cases than active cases. You can't re-open without dire consequences.

And without adequate testing, you'll never re-open successfully.

TRUMP LIED AND PEOPLE DIED. THEY'RE STILL FUCKING DYING.

That makes no sense at all.
The number of closed cases is totally and completely irrelevant.
We know all the cases will be closed within 2 weeks.
It never lasts more than 2 weeks.

What matters is that the infection rate will only slow and eventually stop when you reach 55% herd immunity.
And the least dead will happen if the young and healthy get the least lethal strain as quickly as possible, so that they acquire natural immunity. The only alternative to that is waiting 2 years for a vaccine, and clearly that will kill almost 10 times more people.
No lock down can ever end an epidemic, and all it can do is slow it down.
Which is fine if you want to prevent hospital over crowding or wait for a vaccine, but neither of those is viable in this situation.
Hospitals are near empty and laying off, and there is no hope of a vaccine for years to come.

You lack of anything that approaches scientific knowledge is dangerous and wrong headed.

The number of closed cases is very relevant. People either die or they recover, and the recovery period is far more than 2 weeks. Cases which turn serious last far longer than two weeks which is why the number of Active Cases is rising faster than the closed cases. The death rate is calculated by dividing the number of deaths by the total number of closed cases (deaths plus recoveries).

There is abosolutely no evidence of herd immunity with this virus. People in both Italy and China are getting it a second time. We won't know about herd immunity until enough people recover and their blood can be tested for antibodies. It seems there are issues with this test too.

 

[Rigby5]

There is nothing unconstitutional about it. There are no separation of powers issues. The Governor has the power to do this in a emergency.

I'm not familiar with the Maine state constitution and I doubt you are either, hence the reason I specifically said "power they arguably don't have." Nonetheless, an emergency does not give them unlimited power to do what ever it is they want. There are limits.

There is a law granting her those powers in an emergency. This is 37-B §742, Emergency Proclamation

C. After the filing of the emergency proclamation and in addition to any other powers conferred by law, the Governor may:
(1) Suspend the enforcement of any statute prescribing the procedures for conduct of state business, or the orders or rules of any state agency, if strict compliance with the provisions of the statute, order or rule would in any way prevent, hinder or delay necessary action in coping with the emergency;
(2) Utilize all available resources of the State Government and of each political subdivision of the State as reasonably necessary to cope with the disaster emergency;
(3) Transfer the direction, personnel or functions of state departments and agencies, or units thereof, for the purposes of performing or facilitating emergency services;
(4) Authorize the obtaining and acquisition of property, supplies and materials pursuant to section 821;
(5) Enlist the aid of any person to assist in the effort to control, put out or end the emergency or aid in the caring for the safety of persons;
(6) Direct and compel the evacuation of all or part of the population from any stricken or threatened area within the State, if the Governor determines this action necessary for the preservation of life or other disaster mitigation, response or recovery;
(7) Prescribe routes, modes of transportation and destinations in connection with evacuations;
(8) Control ingress and egress to and from a disaster area, the movement of persons within the area and the occupancy of premises therein;
(9) Suspend or limit the sale, dispensing or transportation of alcoholic beverages, explosives and combustibles;
(10) Make provision for the availability and use of temporary emergency housing;
(11) Order the termination, temporary or permanent, of any process, operation, machine or device which may be causing or is understood to be the cause of the state of emergency for which this proclamation was made; and
(12) Take whatever action is necessary to abate, clean up or mitigate whatever danger may exist within the affected area. [PL 2011, c. 626, §2 (AMD).]

That legislation is intended and designed to allow for extreme contingencies like an invasion or attack that killed the entire legislature, or prevents it from convening.
Nor does it give a governor unlimited power, and they still can not violate individual rights.

The point is the lock down increases the death total by slowing down the process of gaining 55% herd immunity.
That is the only way to stop deaths.
Slowing herd immunity ensures a viable pool of live virus, and increases death totals.

 

[Rigby5]

The Maine governor does not have scientific grounds to continue the lock down.

She is relying on evidence, recommendations and projections from the CDC. If you want to battle it out with the health experts and epidemiologists, I'd like to see your credentials, please.

Not true.
Not a single doctor or health expert has ever said that a lock down does anything more than to slow down the infection rate, which prevent hospital over crowding.
Every doctor and health expert says ONLY herd immunity actually stops the death toll.
And while it would be nice to have a vaccine in order to gain herd immunity quickly, that is not going to be possible.
So the only way left is to get herd immunity the old way, of letting it spread, or deliberately infecting the young and healthy with the least lethal strain, much as we used cowpox to stop the more lethal smallpox.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Since when did governors become the final arbiter of who is allowed to open and who gets prosecuted for not obeying their god like orders?

Since the people of their states allowed them to out of fear. That's the problem. They will get away with as much as they think they can as long as they can.

I am hearing rumors that Attorney General Barr may get involved with this.

This is clearly a deprivation of constitutional rights. The Maine governor does not have scientific grounds to continue the lock down.

Barr can do what he wants. He really should be investigating why your skidmark acted slower than the four bipartisan MOC's.

Insurance doesn’t cover pandemics. Your lies are beautiful, One IQ.

 

[Rigby5]

It is not a legal emergency unless martial law is declared.

Where'd that come from?

The ONLY source of any legal authority in a democratic republic comes from the inherent rights of individuals.
The government, like the governor, is NOT at all a source of any authority at all, but merely borrows our individual authority when we delegate it to them, in order to protect our rights for us.
So for a governor to make a decree as law, first the legislature has to be unable to convene, so that there is not a violation of separation of powers. Then the governor has to only do that which protects rights.
And none of that is true.
The legislature is able to convene and come to session, so there is no justification for any executive over reach.
There is no serious threat since the COVID-19 death rate is only 67k out of 330 million, or 0.019%.
And a lock down illegally steals the means of income from millions of people, without any justification, while greatly increasing the death total.

 

[Rigby5]

A state of emergency isn't declared when south Texas floods?

Completely opposite situation. The Texas governor made declarations because of the damage caused by a natural disaster so that FEMA would help with money for repairs so people could get back to living a normal life.

Money to buy food? Money to sustain businesses? Money to pay rent?

There is nothing wrong with asking for or getting temporary emergency money for food, businesses, rent, etc.
But it is illegal to declare martial law that prevents people from earning money for food, wages, rent, etc., when there are not lives at stake.
And all the models say the Lock Down does not save a single life.
They all say the Lock Down only slows the infection rate down, preventing herd immunity, thus increasing the total number of deaths.

What "models" are you looking at? I'm looking at every COUNTRY which actually instituted real lockdowns. We're reopening. We locked down in early March and we're still locked down. We have 14,000 "closed cases", and 4,000 "active cases". We're not re-opening schools until June. Construction is the first thing re-opening and that's tomorrow. All workers must be protected.

The USA has 925,000 active cases, and only 240,000 "closed" cases. Until you have more closed cases than active cases. You can't re-open without dire consequences.

And without adequate testing, you'll never re-open successfully.

TRUMP LIED AND PEOPLE DIED. THEY'RE STILL FUCKING DYING.

That makes no sense at all.
The number of closed cases is totally and completely irrelevant.
We know all the cases will be closed within 2 weeks.
It never lasts more than 2 weeks.

What matters is that the infection rate will only slow and eventually stop when you reach 55% herd immunity.
And the least dead will happen if the young and healthy get the least lethal strain as quickly as possible, so that they acquire natural immunity. The only alternative to that is waiting 2 years for a vaccine, and clearly that will kill almost 10 times more people.
No lock down can ever end an epidemic, and all it can do is slow it down.
Which is fine if you want to prevent hospital over crowding or wait for a vaccine, but neither of those is viable in this situation.
Hospitals are near empty and laying off, and there is no hope of a vaccine for years to come.

You lack of anything that approaches scientific knowledge is dangerous and wrong headed.

The number of closed cases is very relevant. People either die or they recover, and the recovery period is far more than 2 weeks. Cases which turn serious last far longer than two weeks which is why the number of Active Cases is rising faster than the closed cases. The death rate is calculated by dividing the number of deaths by the total number of closed cases (deaths plus recoveries).

There is abosolutely no evidence of herd immunity with this virus. People in both Italy and China are getting it a second time. We won't know about herd immunity until enough people recover and their blood can be tested for antibodies. It seems there are issues with this test too.

Nosense.
While a few cased has lasted as long as 3 weeks or so, the length of time it takes for someone to recover has NOTHING at all to do with how dangerous the threat is to others.
Recovery rate is totally irrelevant.
It only would be relevant if we did not know how risky the infection was, and what the percentage of likely deaths were. But we do know. We knew that from the data we got from China and Italy, long before there even was an outbreak in the US.

The death rate of those who have the virus is not at all relevant.
The ONLY thing that matters is what the death total is as a percentage of the entire population.
That is how you evaluate the threat potential.
It does not matter if an epidemic is extremely contagious if it is not very lethal, and it does not matter if it very lethal if it is not very contagious.
And the death total is 67k out of 330 million, so it is NOT very risky or serious.
It is no more risky or serious then the seasonal flu, which kills the same percentage.

There absolutely IS proof of herd immunity.
First of all, this virus transferred from some host animal, and clearly that animal has immunity.
Second is that the virus infection peaked and declined in all countries, whether they locked down or not, so then clearly the population is acquiring immunity.
Already NY has figures showing over 20% of the population has antibodies, meaning they have acquired immunity.
Third is that they have already successfully help people recover using transfusions of blood from those who had antibodies. Which is proof of human acquired immunity.
But 4th is that never in history has any virus not provided some herd immunity, or else there would be a whole lot more extinctions.

 

[Rigby5]

The Maine Governor took away his business and liquor license and is smashing him like a bug.
Only a Dimm could cheer for this shit!

Gee, you fools wanted Colin Kaepernick fired for taking a knee - which was LEGAL. He lost his livelihood. You didn't have a problem with that. In fact, you cheered it. But this businessman broke the law, endangered the public health and other peoples' lives, and you say that nothing should happen to him.

Every little thing you've done over the years to supress people who didn't believe like you did. You wanted people to run down protestors with their cars when they were protesting Trump. Now, they carry guns into the State House and your cheering them to shoot someone.

Conservatives are nothing if not hypocrites.

Not at all.
Firing Kaepernick was totally illegal in my opinion.

This business did not break the law, because the owner was able to prove he could safely implement social distancing.
The governor has to prove the restaurant was a health hazard before it can be legal to shut it down, and the governor can't successfully do that.
In fact, it is clear the employees in Maine could not be a source of any contagion because they have so few cases.
And then if a case did come up, it would be from one of the tourists.
And then that would help us identify who the tourist was from another state, that was infected and did not know it.

 

[Rigby5]

This sort of behaviour should be criminal, it is certainly stupid as are the lock down protests.

Let me give an example, in World War Two about 3% of the global population died.

The final death morality rate of the Spanish Flu of those infected had a morality rate of 2.5%.

Right now the global mortality rate of those infected with this virus in the USA is 5.79!%
In some countries higher such as Italy 13.8%, France 14.47% and the UK with 15.8%!

https://www.cebm.net/c…/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/
Just in the initial wave.

It is serious you slack jawed, banjo playing, gun waving hicks.

Think of your fellow human beings and stay the fuck home.

Global Covid-19 Case Fatality Rates - The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine

The total number of cases and the total number of deaths from COVID-19 outbreak data was drawn down (scraped) from Worldometers.

www.cebm.net

Sorry, but your numbers are totally and completely wrong.

The 1918 Spanish flu killed about 10% of the whole population, everywhere.
In comparison, this COVID-19 has only killed about 0.019% of the population anywhere.
Do the math yourself. With a population of 330 million, and only 67k dead, that is only 0.019%.
To match the Spanish flu, you would need to achieve 33 million deaths in the US.

If you actually knew anything about medicine, you would know that since there was no vaccine, what finally stopped the Spanish flu was herd immunity.
Since there also will be no vaccine for COVID-19 for at least 2 years, then herd immunity is also the only way to end the COVID-19. And the faster that is achieved, the sooner the virus will be eradicated and the death stopped.

 

[westwall]

This sort of behaviour should be criminal, it is certainly stupid as are the lock down protests.

Let me give an example, in World War Two about 3% of the global population died.

The final death morality rate of the Spanish Flu of those infected had a morality rate of 2.5%.

Right now the global mortality rate of those infected with this virus in the USA is 5.79!%
In some countries higher such as Italy 13.8%, France 14.47% and the UK with 15.8%!

https://www.cebm.net/c…/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/
Just in the initial wave.

It is serious you slack jawed, banjo playing, gun waving hicks.

Think of your fellow human beings and stay the fuck home.

Global Covid-19 Case Fatality Rates - The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine

The total number of cases and the total number of deaths from COVID-19 outbreak data was drawn down (scraped) from Worldometers.

www.cebm.net

Your math, sucks. Try again.

 

[Jake Winker Frogen]

This sort of behaviour should be criminal, it is certainly stupid as are the lock down protests.

Let me give an example, in World War Two about 3% of the global population died.

The final death morality rate of the Spanish Flu of those infected had a morality rate of 2.5%.

Right now the global mortality rate of those infected with this virus in the USA is 5.79!%
In some countries higher such as Italy 13.8%, France 14.47% and the UK with 15.8%!

https://www.cebm.net/c…/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/
Just in the initial wave.

It is serious you slack jawed, banjo playing, gun waving hicks.

Think of your fellow human beings and stay the fuck home.

Global Covid-19 Case Fatality Rates - The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine

The total number of cases and the total number of deaths from COVID-19 outbreak data was drawn down (scraped) from Worldometers.

www.cebm.net

Sorry, but your numbers are totally and completely wrong.

The 1918 Spanish flu killed about 10% of the whole population, everywhere.
In comparison, this COVID-19 has only killed about 0.019% of the population anywhere.
Do the math yourself. With a population of 330 million, and only 67k dead, that is only 0.019%.
To match the Spanish flu, you would need to achieve 33 million deaths in the US.

If you actually knew anything about medicine, you would know that since there was no vaccine, what finally stopped the Spanish flu was herd immunity.
Since there also will be no vaccine for COVID-19 for at least 2 years, then herd immunity is also the only way to end the COVID-19. And the faster that is achieved, the sooner the virus will be eradicated and the death stopped.

Yes I like reading fantasy too some times.

Now back to reality.

The Spanish flu: The global impact of the largest influenza pandemic in history

The Spanish flu pandemic had a devastating impact on the global population.

ourworldindata.org

"Based on this, the low estimate of 17.4 million deaths by Spreeuwenberg et al. (2018) implies that the Spanish flu killed almost 1% (0.95%) of the world population.9

If we rely on the estimate of 50 million deaths published by Johnson and Mueller, it implies that the Spanish flu killed 2.7% of the world population."

As for herd immunity, ask Boris Johnson what he thinks about that idea now, having almost died.

Sweden is going for that and has one of the highest death rates.

It is sort of like saying during World War Two we cannot win so we will just surrender to it.

With containment, such as Australia has done effectively, not only can one open up the domestic economy more quickly and with less economic damage but you can hold out for a possible vaccine or treatment rather than surrender you own people to mass death.

This sort of behaviour should be criminal, it is certainly stupid as are the lock down protests.

Let me give an example, in World War Two about 3% of the global population died.

The final death morality rate of the Spanish Flu of those infected had a morality rate of 2.5%.

Right now the global mortality rate of those infected with this virus in the USA is 5.79!%
In some countries higher such as Italy 13.8%, France 14.47% and the UK with 15.8%!

https://www.cebm.net/c…/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/
Just in the initial wave.

It is serious you slack jawed, banjo playing, gun waving hicks.

Think of your fellow human beings and stay the fuck home.

Global Covid-19 Case Fatality Rates - The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine

The total number of cases and the total number of deaths from COVID-19 outbreak data was drawn down (scraped) from Worldometers.

www.cebm.net

Sorry, but your numbers are totally and completely wrong.

The 1918 Spanish flu killed about 10% of the whole population, everywhere.
In comparison, this COVID-19 has only killed about 0.019% of the population anywhere.
Do the math yourself. With a population of 330 million, and only 67k dead, that is only 0.019%.
To match the Spanish flu, you would need to achieve 33 million deaths in the US.

If you actually knew anything about medicine, you would know that since there was no vaccine, what finally stopped the Spanish flu was herd immunity.
Since there also will be no vaccine for COVID-19 for at least 2 years, then herd immunity is also the only way to end the COVID-19. And the faster that is achieved, the sooner the virus will be eradicated and the death stopped.

Yeah I like fantasy too but now back to reality/

They are not my numbers, it is history.

The Spanish flu: The global impact of the largest influenza pandemic in history

The Spanish flu pandemic had a devastating impact on the global population.

ourworldindata.org

"
Based on this, the low estimate of 17.4 million deaths by Spreeuwenberg et al. (2018) implies that the Spanish flu killed almost 1% (0.95%) of the world population.9

If we rely on the estimate of 50 million deaths published by Johnson and Mueller, it implies that the Spanish flu killed 2.7% of the world population."

The idea of herd immunity is some what a pathetic deafest attitude, sort of like saying we cannot beat the Nazis so we should surrender too them.


Give up, let those who die die, even though this virus kills far more per infected than the Spanish flu and the rest of us might be OK.

Rather than the noble and courageous strategy we will contain it, which allows us to open up our domestic economy, which Australia is doing and save every life we can until there is a vaccine.

Also the idea of herd immunity, during the Spanish flu they had no choice, we do. We can probably develop a vaccine.

Unless you think 17 to 20 million deaths is the way to go.

No economy can bare for that to happen let alone the human suffering..

Here's Why Herd Immunity Won't Save Us From The COVID-19 Pandemic

It's hard to predict things in a pandemic.

www.sciencealert.com

"
With something like 10 percent of all infections needing to be hospitalised, you'd also see an enormous number of people very sick, which has huge implications for the country as well.

The sad fact is that herd immunity just isn't a solution to our pandemic woes. Yes, it may eventually happen anyway, but hoping that it will save us all is just not realistic. The time to discuss herd immunity is when we have a vaccine developed, and not one second earlier, because at that point we will be able to really stop the epidemic in its tracks.

Until we have a vaccine, anyone talking about herd immunity as a preventative strategy for COVID-19 is simply wrong. Fortunately, there are other ways of preventing infections from spreading, which all boil down to avoiding people who are sick."

 

[Jake Winker Frogen]

This sort of behaviour should be criminal, it is certainly stupid as are the lock down protests.

Let me give an example, in World War Two about 3% of the global population died.

The final death morality rate of the Spanish Flu of those infected had a morality rate of 2.5%.

Right now the global mortality rate of those infected with this virus in the USA is 5.79!%
In some countries higher such as Italy 13.8%, France 14.47% and the UK with 15.8%!

https://www.cebm.net/c…/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/
Just in the initial wave.

It is serious you slack jawed, banjo playing, gun waving hicks.

Think of your fellow human beings and stay the fuck home.

Global Covid-19 Case Fatality Rates - The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine

The total number of cases and the total number of deaths from COVID-19 outbreak data was drawn down (scraped) from Worldometers.

www.cebm.net

Your math, sucks. Try again.

This is a very wise debating strategy, when you are a slobbering idiot say as little as you can.

Well done.

 

[westwall]

This sort of behaviour should be criminal, it is certainly stupid as are the lock down protests.

Let me give an example, in World War Two about 3% of the global population died.

The final death morality rate of the Spanish Flu of those infected had a morality rate of 2.5%.

Right now the global mortality rate of those infected with this virus in the USA is 5.79!%
In some countries higher such as Italy 13.8%, France 14.47% and the UK with 15.8%!

https://www.cebm.net/c…/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/
Just in the initial wave.

It is serious you slack jawed, banjo playing, gun waving hicks.

Think of your fellow human beings and stay the fuck home.

Global Covid-19 Case Fatality Rates - The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine

The total number of cases and the total number of deaths from COVID-19 outbreak data was drawn down (scraped) from Worldometers.

www.cebm.net

Your math, sucks. Try again.

This is a very wise debating strategy, when you are a slobbering idiot say as little as you can.

Well done.

It's not a strategy. It is a statement of fact.

Try again.