Restuarant has "No Guns Allowed" Sign...gun owners don't bring guns...the robber did though...

[Mr.Right]

You are s

I didn't say it NEVER happened. I was suggesting that it's very rare. Most of the time when someone gets shot it's because someone intended to shoot them. Of course accidental shootings happen. Don't be absurd. But don't act like someone getting randomly shot in a restaurant by a gun that just happened to fire is an every day occurrence. More people die in car accidents...are we going to ban cars and go back to covered wagons?

Like I said examples are easy to find:
Accidental Shooting At Mendon Restaurant - RochesterHomepage.net

There are like 17,000 accidental shootings each year. Over 46 a day so they are daily.

Cars are used daily by most of the country. Most people will never need a gun for anything. Comparing deaths of the two is silly. By the hour of use guns are FAR more dangerous.

And guns are used 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives.....can you do the math brain....

Over 320 million guns in private hands..............17,000 accidental shootings....over 30,000 fatalities from cars...accidental car crashes....guns....between 6-700 deaths a year.....

so 1.6 million crimes stopped vs. 6-700 accidental gun deaths vs. 30,000 car accidents....

With over 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense......

Brain, the numbers are not on your side.......

1.6 is imaginary. Only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. Claiming 1.6 million defenses is just silly.

Cars are used by almost everyone in the country daily. Of course more people die in car accidents. Most people won't need a gun for anything their entire life.

Gun owners have a fantasy of every time someone looks sideways at them they have prevented a robbery

Most defenders are involved in criminal activity themselves. Mondays robber is Tuesdays defender.

you are simply too stupid to live.

 

[Brain357]

You seem to be especially dumb. Obviously it had nothing to do with the restaurant being robbed. Might be why nobody was killed however. If you are going to make the claim it did then show me how restaurants with a sign are robbed more often. I can post lots of restaurants without the sign that have been robbed. I've also posted gun shops who have been robbed. Clearly the sign has nothing to do with it.

If a crook found a closed store with the door unlocked, next to one that was locked, which one do you think he would rob? Same principle. They knew that no one had a gun. That's why they robbed the place. And if there was just one person there who was armed and was proficient with his weapon, he might have prevented the robbery.

And they knew the gun shop owners were armed and still robbed them. I guess guns attract robbery.

People also rob banks with armed Security. One thing you fail to understand. There is a name for people who are unarmed. We call them victims. Would you rather people had the means to defend themselves, or not? That is what matters. Nothing else.

The armed gun shop owners who are now dead were victims.

So, let me get this straight. You actually believe that people should not fight back, if someone attacks them? Is that what you're saying? The gun store owners are dead. But that does not help your argument one bit. For every example like this one, I could show you a hundred where the bad guy is dead or incarcerated.

I am saying the no guns sign doesn't matter. It does not attract criminals as even gun shops get robbed. Having guns did not stop the gun owners from being victims as you seem to think it does. And no you couldn't give a hundred examples.

 

[Brain357]

You are s

Like I said examples are easy to find:
Accidental Shooting At Mendon Restaurant - RochesterHomepage.net

There are like 17,000 accidental shootings each year. Over 46 a day so they are daily.

Cars are used daily by most of the country. Most people will never need a gun for anything. Comparing deaths of the two is silly. By the hour of use guns are FAR more dangerous.

And guns are used 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives.....can you do the math brain....

Over 320 million guns in private hands..............17,000 accidental shootings....over 30,000 fatalities from cars...accidental car crashes....guns....between 6-700 deaths a year.....

so 1.6 million crimes stopped vs. 6-700 accidental gun deaths vs. 30,000 car accidents....

With over 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense......

Brain, the numbers are not on your side.......

1.6 is imaginary. Only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. Claiming 1.6 million defenses is just silly.

Cars are used by almost everyone in the country daily. Of course more people die in car accidents. Most people won't need a gun for anything their entire life.

Gun owners have a fantasy of every time someone looks sideways at them they have prevented a robbery

Most defenders are involved in criminal activity themselves. Mondays robber is Tuesdays defender.

you are simply too stupid to live.

Do you think all these armed criminals in high crime areas don't defend themselves? Really? They are the most likely to defend themselves.

 

[rightwinger]

In the world of NRA gun nuts, you are better off to have a shootout where several people die than a robbery where a couple hundred dollars are lost

I'm not willing to bet my life that the robber will be satisfied with taking the money and leaving witnesses. Now you're life I would bet any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I know....every confrontation is better with guns

 

[BluePhantom]

Ok I am back after a wonderful discussion wherein two people of completely different beliefs found common ground. Seriously. It was a beautiful thing. So what did I miss?

 

[BluePhantom]

I didn't say it NEVER happened. I was suggesting that it's very rare. Most of the time when someone gets shot it's because someone intended to shoot them. Of course accidental shootings happen. Don't be absurd. But don't act like someone getting randomly shot in a restaurant by a gun that just happened to fire is an every day occurrence. More people die in car accidents...are we going to ban cars and go back to covered wagons?

Like I said examples are easy to find:
Accidental Shooting At Mendon Restaurant - RochesterHomepage.net

There are like 17,000 accidental shootings each year. Over 46 a day so they are daily.

Cars are used daily by most of the country. Most people will never need a gun for anything. Comparing deaths of the two is silly. By the hour of use guns are FAR more dangerous.

And guns are used 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives.....can you do the math brain....

Over 320 million guns in private hands..............17,000 accidental shootings....over 30,000 fatalities from cars...accidental car crashes....guns....between 6-700 deaths a year.....

so 1.6 million crimes stopped vs. 6-700 accidental gun deaths vs. 30,000 car accidents....

With over 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense......

Brain, the numbers are not on your side.......

1.6 is imaginary. Only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. Claiming 1.6 million defenses is just silly.

Cars are used by almost everyone in the country daily. Of course more people die in car accidents. Most people won't need a gun for anything their entire life.

Gun owners have a fantasy of every time someone looks sideways at them they have prevented a robbery

Most defenders are involved in criminal activity themselves. Mondays robber is Tuesdays defender.

Whoa! Provide documentation to support your statement. I want to see you provide evidence that states that the majority of gun owners are involved in criminal activity. Or even that the majority of gun owners who have used their gun in self defense are involved in criminal activity. I am willing to accept that it may be the truth but you are going to have to provide evidence instead of simply your say so. So let's have it

 

[BluePhantom]

In the world of NRA gun nuts, you are better off to have a shootout where several people die than a robbery where a couple hundred dollars are lost

I'm not willing to bet my life that the robber will be satisfied with taking the money and leaving witnesses. Now you're life I would bet any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I know....every confrontation is better with guns

So let's just toss out a hypothetical RW. I have broken into your house. I have a knife at your wife's throat and I am about to rape her and I am telling her that after I am done I am going to slit her throat. You have a 9mm in your hand. Do you shoot me?

 

[Brain357]

Like I said examples are easy to find:
Accidental Shooting At Mendon Restaurant - RochesterHomepage.net

There are like 17,000 accidental shootings each year. Over 46 a day so they are daily.

Cars are used daily by most of the country. Most people will never need a gun for anything. Comparing deaths of the two is silly. By the hour of use guns are FAR more dangerous.

And guns are used 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives.....can you do the math brain....

Over 320 million guns in private hands..............17,000 accidental shootings....over 30,000 fatalities from cars...accidental car crashes....guns....between 6-700 deaths a year.....

so 1.6 million crimes stopped vs. 6-700 accidental gun deaths vs. 30,000 car accidents....

With over 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense......

Brain, the numbers are not on your side.......

1.6 is imaginary. Only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. Claiming 1.6 million defenses is just silly.

Cars are used by almost everyone in the country daily. Of course more people die in car accidents. Most people won't need a gun for anything their entire life.

Gun owners have a fantasy of every time someone looks sideways at them they have prevented a robbery

Most defenders are involved in criminal activity themselves. Mondays robber is Tuesdays defender.

Whoa! Provide documentation to support your statement. I want to see you provide evidence that states that the majority of gun owners are involved in criminal activity. Or even that the majority of gun owners who have used their gun in self defense are involved in criminal activity. I am willing to accept that it may be the truth but you are going to have to provide evidence instead of simply your say so. So let's have it

I did not say most gun owners. I said defenders. Most defenses are in high crime areas by the same people who are also criminals. Why would you be surprised by that? Lots of armed criminals in high crime areas who of course will defend themselves. Here is a quote from Kleck:
"This is true because DGUs typically involve criminal behavior, such as unlawful gun possession, by the gun-using victim, who therefore is often unwilling to report the incident."

 

[BluePhantom]

And guns are used 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives.....can you do the math brain....

Over 320 million guns in private hands..............17,000 accidental shootings....over 30,000 fatalities from cars...accidental car crashes....guns....between 6-700 deaths a year.....

so 1.6 million crimes stopped vs. 6-700 accidental gun deaths vs. 30,000 car accidents....

With over 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense......

Brain, the numbers are not on your side.......

1.6 is imaginary. Only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. Claiming 1.6 million defenses is just silly.

Cars are used by almost everyone in the country daily. Of course more people die in car accidents. Most people won't need a gun for anything their entire life.

Gun owners have a fantasy of every time someone looks sideways at them they have prevented a robbery

Most defenders are involved in criminal activity themselves. Mondays robber is Tuesdays defender.

Whoa! Provide documentation to support your statement. I want to see you provide evidence that states that the majority of gun owners are involved in criminal activity. Or even that the majority of gun owners who have used their gun in self defense are involved in criminal activity. I am willing to accept that it may be the truth but you are going to have to provide evidence instead of simply your say so. So let's have it

I did not say most gun owners. I said defenders. Most defenses are in high crime areas by the same people who are also criminals. Why would you be surprised by that? Lots of armed criminals in high crime areas who of course will defend themselves. Here is a quote from Kleck:
"This is true because DGUs typically involve criminal behavior, such as unlawful gun possession, by the gun-using victim, who therefore is often unwilling to report the incident."

Very well. Provide the link that supports your argument

 

[Brain357]

1.6 is imaginary. Only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. Claiming 1.6 million defenses is just silly.

Cars are used by almost everyone in the country daily. Of course more people die in car accidents. Most people won't need a gun for anything their entire life.

Gun owners have a fantasy of every time someone looks sideways at them they have prevented a robbery

Most defenders are involved in criminal activity themselves. Mondays robber is Tuesdays defender.

Whoa! Provide documentation to support your statement. I want to see you provide evidence that states that the majority of gun owners are involved in criminal activity. Or even that the majority of gun owners who have used their gun in self defense are involved in criminal activity. I am willing to accept that it may be the truth but you are going to have to provide evidence instead of simply your say so. So let's have it

I did not say most gun owners. I said defenders. Most defenses are in high crime areas by the same people who are also criminals. Why would you be surprised by that? Lots of armed criminals in high crime areas who of course will defend themselves. Here is a quote from Kleck:
"This is true because DGUs typically involve criminal behavior, such as unlawful gun possession, by the gun-using victim, who therefore is often unwilling to report the incident."

Very well. Provide the link that supports your argument

Isn't it just common sense? I mean where do you think most defenses take place? High crime areas or low? Clearly they take place in high crime areas where there are lots of armed criminals. And these armed criminals are going to defend themselves. Here is a link from where the Kleck quote is taken. He's trying to explain why his numbers have more crimes defended than are committed. I obviously think his survey is very wrong, but he is obviously right that most defenders are involved in criminal activity.
Although we systematically rebut each of Hemenwayls H claims we

 

[jon_berzerk]

And guns are used 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives.....can you do the math brain....

Over 320 million guns in private hands..............17,000 accidental shootings....over 30,000 fatalities from cars...accidental car crashes....guns....between 6-700 deaths a year.....

so 1.6 million crimes stopped vs. 6-700 accidental gun deaths vs. 30,000 car accidents....

With over 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense......

Brain, the numbers are not on your side.......

1.6 is imaginary. Only 230 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. Claiming 1.6 million defenses is just silly.

Cars are used by almost everyone in the country daily. Of course more people die in car accidents. Most people won't need a gun for anything their entire life.

Gun owners have a fantasy of every time someone looks sideways at them they have prevented a robbery

Most defenders are involved in criminal activity themselves. Mondays robber is Tuesdays defender.

Whoa! Provide documentation to support your statement. I want to see you provide evidence that states that the majority of gun owners are involved in criminal activity. Or even that the majority of gun owners who have used their gun in self defense are involved in criminal activity. I am willing to accept that it may be the truth but you are going to have to provide evidence instead of simply your say so. So let's have it

I did not say most gun owners. I said defenders. Most defenses are in high crime areas by the same people who are also criminals. Why would you be surprised by that? Lots of armed criminals in high crime areas who of course will defend themselves. Here is a quote from Kleck:
"This is true because DGUs typically involve criminal behavior, such as unlawful gun possession, by the gun-using victim, who therefore is often unwilling to report the incident."

link

 

[jon_berzerk]

In the world of NRA gun nuts, you are better off to have a shootout where several people die than a robbery where a couple hundred dollars are lost

I'm not willing to bet my life that the robber will be satisfied with taking the money and leaving witnesses. Now you're life I would bet any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I know....every confrontation is better with guns

So let's just toss out a hypothetical RW. I have broken into your house. I have a knife at your wife's throat and I am about to rape her and I am telling her that after I am done I am going to slit her throat. You have a 9mm in your hand. Do you shoot me?

they should have posted the " No sharp knives allowed " sign

to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the first place

 

[BluePhantom]

Gun owners have a fantasy of every time someone looks sideways at them they have prevented a robbery

Most defenders are involved in criminal activity themselves. Mondays robber is Tuesdays defender.

Whoa! Provide documentation to support your statement. I want to see you provide evidence that states that the majority of gun owners are involved in criminal activity. Or even that the majority of gun owners who have used their gun in self defense are involved in criminal activity. I am willing to accept that it may be the truth but you are going to have to provide evidence instead of simply your say so. So let's have it

I did not say most gun owners. I said defenders. Most defenses are in high crime areas by the same people who are also criminals. Why would you be surprised by that? Lots of armed criminals in high crime areas who of course will defend themselves. Here is a quote from Kleck:
"This is true because DGUs typically involve criminal behavior, such as unlawful gun possession, by the gun-using victim, who therefore is often unwilling to report the incident."

Very well. Provide the link that supports your argument

Isn't it just common sense? I mean where do you think most defenses take place? High crime areas or low? Clearly they take place in high crime areas where there are lots of armed criminals. And these armed criminals are going to defend themselves. Here is a link from where the Kleck quote is taken. He's trying to explain why his numbers have more crimes defended than are committed. I obviously think his survey is very wrong, but he is obviously right that most defenders are involved in criminal activity.
Although we systematically rebut each of Hemenwayls H claims we

I think it is reasonable to suggest that most situations where gunplay occurs will be in high crime areas, sure. But what does that have to do with the average gun owner who has a gun to protect his property and his family? I own a gun...I won't tell you how many or where I keep them. I occasionally go take practice to make sure I am not rusty and my skills are adequate. I have no significant criminal record (aside from some traffic tickets and a some stupid shit I did as a kid smoking weed as a teenager). Why should I lose my ability to protect my family just because some jack ass gang banger wants to rob a liquor store?

 

[BluePhantom]

In the world of NRA gun nuts, you are better off to have a shootout where several people die than a robbery where a couple hundred dollars are lost

I'm not willing to bet my life that the robber will be satisfied with taking the money and leaving witnesses. Now you're life I would bet any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I know....every confrontation is better with guns

So let's just toss out a hypothetical RW. I have broken into your house. I have a knife at your wife's throat and I am about to rape her and I am telling her that after I am done I am going to slit her throat. You have a 9mm in your hand. Do you shoot me?

they should have posted the " No sharp knives allowed " sign

to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the first place

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! CLASSIC!!!!

 

[Brain357]

Most defenders are involved in criminal activity themselves. Mondays robber is Tuesdays defender.

Whoa! Provide documentation to support your statement. I want to see you provide evidence that states that the majority of gun owners are involved in criminal activity. Or even that the majority of gun owners who have used their gun in self defense are involved in criminal activity. I am willing to accept that it may be the truth but you are going to have to provide evidence instead of simply your say so. So let's have it

I did not say most gun owners. I said defenders. Most defenses are in high crime areas by the same people who are also criminals. Why would you be surprised by that? Lots of armed criminals in high crime areas who of course will defend themselves. Here is a quote from Kleck:
"This is true because DGUs typically involve criminal behavior, such as unlawful gun possession, by the gun-using victim, who therefore is often unwilling to report the incident."

Very well. Provide the link that supports your argument

Isn't it just common sense? I mean where do you think most defenses take place? High crime areas or low? Clearly they take place in high crime areas where there are lots of armed criminals. And these armed criminals are going to defend themselves. Here is a link from where the Kleck quote is taken. He's trying to explain why his numbers have more crimes defended than are committed. I obviously think his survey is very wrong, but he is obviously right that most defenders are involved in criminal activity.
Although we systematically rebut each of Hemenwayls H claims we

I think it is reasonable to suggest that most situations where gunplay occurs will be in high crime areas, sure. But what does that have to do with the average gun owner who has a gun to protect his property and his family? I own a gun...I won't tell you how many or where I keep them. I occasionally go take practice to make sure I am not rusty and my skills are adequate. I have no significant criminal record (aside from some traffic tickets and a some stupid shit I did as a kid smoking weed as a teenager). Why should I lose my ability to protect my family just because some jack ass gang banger wants to rob a liquor store?

What does that have to do with what I'm saying? I'm just pointing out that most defenses are by criminals. If you are involved in criminal activity you are MUCH more likely to need a gun for defense. If you aren't as you say then you are very unlikely to ever need one.

 

[Brain357]

In the world of NRA gun nuts, you are better off to have a shootout where several people die than a robbery where a couple hundred dollars are lost

I'm not willing to bet my life that the robber will be satisfied with taking the money and leaving witnesses. Now you're life I would bet any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I know....every confrontation is better with guns

So let's just toss out a hypothetical RW. I have broken into your house. I have a knife at your wife's throat and I am about to rape her and I am telling her that after I am done I am going to slit her throat. You have a 9mm in your hand. Do you shoot me?

they should have posted the " No sharp knives allowed " sign

to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the first place

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! CLASSIC!!!!

You can't be amused that easily...

 

[BluePhantom]

In the world of NRA gun nuts, you are better off to have a shootout where several people die than a robbery where a couple hundred dollars are lost

I'm not willing to bet my life that the robber will be satisfied with taking the money and leaving witnesses. Now you're life I would bet any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I know....every confrontation is better with guns

So let's just toss out a hypothetical RW. I have broken into your house. I have a knife at your wife's throat and I am about to rape her and I am telling her that after I am done I am going to slit her throat. You have a 9mm in your hand. Do you shoot me?

they should have posted the " No sharp knives allowed " sign

to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the first place

Just think of all the criminal activity we could have avoided throughout history by just posting a sign. Julius Caesar could have been saved by a sign that said "No Stabbing the Dictator Zone". Attila the Hun would have benefited from a "No Drowning on Your Own Puke Zone" sign. And Joan of Arc could have been saved by a sign that read "No Throwing Maidens Who Claim to Talk To God on Bonfires Zone". Why didn't we think of this before?

 

[Brain357]

In the world of NRA gun nuts, you are better off to have a shootout where several people die than a robbery where a couple hundred dollars are lost

I'm not willing to bet my life that the robber will be satisfied with taking the money and leaving witnesses. Now you're life I would bet any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I know....every confrontation is better with guns

So let's just toss out a hypothetical RW. I have broken into your house. I have a knife at your wife's throat and I am about to rape her and I am telling her that after I am done I am going to slit her throat. You have a 9mm in your hand. Do you shoot me?

they should have posted the " No sharp knives allowed " sign

to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the first place

Just think of all the criminal activity we could have avoided throughout history by just posting a sign. Julius Caesar could have been saved by a sign that said "No Stabbing the Dictator Zone". Attila the Hun would have benefited from a "No Drowning on Your Own Puke Zone" sign. And Joan of Arc could have been saved by a sign that read "No Throwing Maidens Who Claim to Talk To God on Bonfires Zone". Why didn't we think of this before?

The signs are not to avoid criminal behavior, they are to avoid accidental shootings. You don't get that?

 

[jon_berzerk]

I'm not willing to bet my life that the robber will be satisfied with taking the money and leaving witnesses. Now you're life I would bet any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I know....every confrontation is better with guns

So let's just toss out a hypothetical RW. I have broken into your house. I have a knife at your wife's throat and I am about to rape her and I am telling her that after I am done I am going to slit her throat. You have a 9mm in your hand. Do you shoot me?

they should have posted the " No sharp knives allowed " sign

to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the first place

Just think of all the criminal activity we could have avoided throughout history by just posting a sign. Julius Caesar could have been saved by a sign that said "No Stabbing the Dictator Zone". Attila the Hun would have benefited from a "No Drowning on Your Own Puke Zone" sign. And Joan of Arc could have been saved by a sign that read "No Throwing Maidens Who Claim to Talk To God on Bonfires Zone". Why didn't we think of this before?

The signs are not to avoid criminal behavior, they are to avoid accidental shootings. You don't get that?

liar

 

[Brain357]

I know....every confrontation is better with guns

So let's just toss out a hypothetical RW. I have broken into your house. I have a knife at your wife's throat and I am about to rape her and I am telling her that after I am done I am going to slit her throat. You have a 9mm in your hand. Do you shoot me?

they should have posted the " No sharp knives allowed " sign

to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the first place

Just think of all the criminal activity we could have avoided throughout history by just posting a sign. Julius Caesar could have been saved by a sign that said "No Stabbing the Dictator Zone". Attila the Hun would have benefited from a "No Drowning on Your Own Puke Zone" sign. And Joan of Arc could have been saved by a sign that read "No Throwing Maidens Who Claim to Talk To God on Bonfires Zone". Why didn't we think of this before?

The signs are not to avoid criminal behavior, they are to avoid accidental shootings. You don't get that?

liar

Really? You think that signs are ment to avoid criminal behavior? Don't be so blatant with your stupidity. They are to avoid accidental shootings. If there are no guns there are no accidental shootings obviously.