Rigged Elections and Voter Fraud - how common is fraud? Not very.

[Coyote]

Quite a few states have had Voter ID for some time now. And it has not stopped the types of fraud which occur. I've been pointing it out to you tards for a long time. Years.

But they still aren't allowed to verify citizenship for voter registration. The system is designed to encourage fraud.

It seems to have worked just fine for years and years...until suddenly someone decided there was fraud and simultaneously came up with a stack of new regulations that disproportionatly affected those who tend to vote for the opposition.

I still haven't figured out how cutting early voting, reducing voting hours and stopping Sunday voting prevents fraud.

Citizen is the first and most important requirement to vote, only an idiot wouldn't think it makes sense to verify it to register to vote. ID is the only way to verify the person casting the vote is the one registered. It's common sense to require both. I know, you regressives don't believe common sense exist, unless it's a regressive talking point in the gun debate.

Ok...here is a question for you regressives - why do you promote legislation that prevents certain citizens from voting?

States are also strapped for cash, why pay poll workers and rent polling space for days that are really unneeded? I haven't had to stand in a line to vote here in TX at all, which tells me they could shorten the early voting period easily by a couple of days and not hurt anyone.

Why? Because they are needed, though it's mostly by those who tend to vote democrat.

Why are you so keen to disenfranchise them? It's convenient to claim it's about cost. But voting is a fundamental right in a democratic system.

Give me an example of a law that only applies to certain citizens.

Not going to play that game.

There are laws designed to or which inadvertently have a disproportionate effect on certain classes of people. For example the Poll Tax.

 

[Coyote]

Except you really don't - at least going by the links you provided. You have a folder full of hypothetical situations and conjecture, situations where voter ROLLS have not been cleaned up, cases of ELECTORAL fraud - but damn few cases of actual voter fraud.

It's all voter fraud. That's the point. We have to start doing something to eliminate it. And mind you, these are only the cases we know about. What about all the cases we don't know about because frauds were able to work this fragile system we currently have?

This is the exact same as my speeders on the highway scenario. If there are no police to bust the speeders, can the city claim there is no speeding problem on that highway?

No, it's not all voter fraud - voter fraud is a specific type of fraud.

I don't think our system is that fragile - it's robust and it has endured through worse calamities then this.

 

[OKTexas]

We have layers of laws related to guns, including background checks to verify eligibility, why not for voting?

We have them for voting.

As much as we need for a process that doesn't kill people.

Yeah, they just take peoples word, and then have no meaningful ways to verify they told the truth. Once again, why is it only you regressives that object to voting eligibility verification systems? What are you trying to keep hidden?

You want to know why?

It's because of this: what is WORSE to you?

Taking the risk that an ineligible voter votes?
or
Taking the risk that an eligible voter is disenfranchised?

It's kind of the same way I see the death penalty: what is worse?
Taking the risk that a convicted criminal sentenced to life gets away and kills someone?
or
Taking the risk that an innocent man is sentanced to die?

It's how those questions are answered that define the difference between regressives like you and regressives like me.

With technology today we can do both, make sure an eligible voter gets to vote and make sure that vote is not canceled by someone who is ineligible.

As for the death penalty, we have safeguards in place to protect those wrongly convicted. We don't get do overs on elections that are decided by fraudulent votes.

We really don't. Eligible voters may not be able to come up with the right documentation. People on death row are found innocent all the time due to new methods of evaluatiing evidence. How many do you think have been killed prior to that?

We don't get do-overs in elections decided by fraudulant votes.
We don't get do-overs in elections decided by the removal of disenfranchised voters either.
And dead people don't come back to life.

Add to that - voter fraud, of the kind that ID's would prevent is rare and inefficient and unlikely to have any effect on an election.

Bullshit, I got my mother-in-laws birth certificate with one phone call and a $5.00 charge on a credit card, she's 87. If people can afford cell phone, cable TV, cigarettes and booze they can get an ID. BTW you need an ID to get all those.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We also have a lot of uninformed people owning guns.

But that is not sufficient reason to disenfranchise them of their rights.

Really? Would you like to compare gun laws to voting laws in this country and see which one has more?

That's besides the fact that careless gun ownership is due to irresponsibility--not information. And if we could somehow develop a test to see if a person is responsible enough to own a firearm, I'm all for that too.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, it's not all voter fraud - voter fraud is a specific type of fraud.

I don't think our system is that fragile - it's robust and it has endured through worse calamities then this.

It's very fragile as my posts suggest. No, it's not always a person voting, it's the entire system in general. When ballots are mailed out to anybody who can steal them, it's fragile. When states issue drivers licenses to illegals which they can use to ID themselves at the polling place, it's fragile. When those ballots are mailed out to people that died years ago, it's fragile. When all you need is a utility bill to prove you can vote (which can be manipulated by anybody with a scanner and printer, it's fragile.

 

[OKTexas]

But they still aren't allowed to verify citizenship for voter registration. The system is designed to encourage fraud.

It seems to have worked just fine for years and years...until suddenly someone decided there was fraud and simultaneously came up with a stack of new regulations that disproportionatly affected those who tend to vote for the opposition.

I still haven't figured out how cutting early voting, reducing voting hours and stopping Sunday voting prevents fraud.

Citizen is the first and most important requirement to vote, only an idiot wouldn't think it makes sense to verify it to register to vote. ID is the only way to verify the person casting the vote is the one registered. It's common sense to require both. I know, you regressives don't believe common sense exist, unless it's a regressive talking point in the gun debate.

Ok...here is a question for you regressives - why do you promote legislation that prevents certain citizens from voting?

States are also strapped for cash, why pay poll workers and rent polling space for days that are really unneeded? I haven't had to stand in a line to vote here in TX at all, which tells me they could shorten the early voting period easily by a couple of days and not hurt anyone.

Why? Because they are needed, though it's mostly by those who tend to vote democrat.

Why are you so keen to disenfranchise them? It's convenient to claim it's about cost. But voting is a fundamental right in a democratic system.

Give me an example of a law that only applies to certain citizens.

Not going to play that game.

There are laws designed to or which inadvertently have a disproportionate effect on certain classes of people. For example the Poll Tax.

So the best example you got was outlawed by the 24th Amendment 52 years ago, really?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Not going to play that game.

There are laws designed to or which inadvertently have a disproportionate effect on certain classes of people. For example the Poll Tax.

This isn't a poll tax. A poll tax eliminates people that can't afford such taxes. At least as far as I read, if a person can claim they can't afford a Voter-ID, it's provided to them at no cost.

 

[Coyote]

It seems to have worked just fine for years and years...until suddenly someone decided there was fraud and simultaneously came up with a stack of new regulations that disproportionatly affected those who tend to vote for the opposition.

I still haven't figured out how cutting early voting, reducing voting hours and stopping Sunday voting prevents fraud.

Citizen is the first and most important requirement to vote, only an idiot wouldn't think it makes sense to verify it to register to vote. ID is the only way to verify the person casting the vote is the one registered. It's common sense to require both. I know, you regressives don't believe common sense exist, unless it's a regressive talking point in the gun debate.

Ok...here is a question for you regressives - why do you promote legislation that prevents certain citizens from voting?

States are also strapped for cash, why pay poll workers and rent polling space for days that are really unneeded? I haven't had to stand in a line to vote here in TX at all, which tells me they could shorten the early voting period easily by a couple of days and not hurt anyone.

Why? Because they are needed, though it's mostly by those who tend to vote democrat.

Why are you so keen to disenfranchise them? It's convenient to claim it's about cost. But voting is a fundamental right in a democratic system.

Give me an example of a law that only applies to certain citizens.

Not going to play that game.

There are laws designed to or which inadvertently have a disproportionate effect on certain classes of people. For example the Poll Tax.

So the best example you got was outlawed by the 24th Amendment 52 years ago, really?

No, it's just one example, the most obvious. Do you need more?

 

[Coyote]

Not going to play that game.

There are laws designed to or which inadvertently have a disproportionate effect on certain classes of people. For example the Poll Tax.

This isn't a poll tax. A poll tax eliminates people that can't afford such taxes. At least as far as I read, if a person can claim they can't afford a Voter-ID, it's provided to them at no cost.

The Poll Tax was in reply to a specific question by OKTexas.

I would want an absolute guarantee that every eligible voter can get the necessary ID easily and efficiently. In addition, the list of allowable ID's should be expanded. For example - why is a concealed carry permit or a military ID ok but a student ID not? (in Republican states).

Voting is too important a right to infringe imo and there have been many attempts throughout history to do so.

 

[OKTexas]

Citizen is the first and most important requirement to vote, only an idiot wouldn't think it makes sense to verify it to register to vote. ID is the only way to verify the person casting the vote is the one registered. It's common sense to require both. I know, you regressives don't believe common sense exist, unless it's a regressive talking point in the gun debate.

Ok...here is a question for you regressives - why do you promote legislation that prevents certain citizens from voting?

States are also strapped for cash, why pay poll workers and rent polling space for days that are really unneeded? I haven't had to stand in a line to vote here in TX at all, which tells me they could shorten the early voting period easily by a couple of days and not hurt anyone.

Why? Because they are needed, though it's mostly by those who tend to vote democrat.

Why are you so keen to disenfranchise them? It's convenient to claim it's about cost. But voting is a fundamental right in a democratic system.

Give me an example of a law that only applies to certain citizens.

Not going to play that game.

There are laws designed to or which inadvertently have a disproportionate effect on certain classes of people. For example the Poll Tax.

So the best example you got was outlawed by the 24th Amendment 52 years ago, really?

No, it's just one example, the most obvious. Do you need more?

Sure, give me something from this decade.

 

[OKTexas]

Not going to play that game.

There are laws designed to or which inadvertently have a disproportionate effect on certain classes of people. For example the Poll Tax.

This isn't a poll tax. A poll tax eliminates people that can't afford such taxes. At least as far as I read, if a person can claim they can't afford a Voter-ID, it's provided to them at no cost.

The Poll Tax was in reply to a specific question by OKTexas.

I would want an absolute guarantee that every eligible voter can get the necessary ID easily and efficiently. In addition, the list of allowable ID's should be expanded. For example - why is a concealed carry permit or a military ID ok but a student ID not? (in Republican states).

Voting is too important a right to infringe imo and there have been many attempts throughout history to do so.

The same student IDs are given to citizens and foreigners.

 

[Coyote]

Ok...here is a question for you regressives - why do you promote legislation that prevents certain citizens from voting?

Why? Because they are needed, though it's mostly by those who tend to vote democrat.

Why are you so keen to disenfranchise them? It's convenient to claim it's about cost. But voting is a fundamental right in a democratic system.

Give me an example of a law that only applies to certain citizens.

Not going to play that game.

There are laws designed to or which inadvertently have a disproportionate effect on certain classes of people. For example the Poll Tax.

So the best example you got was outlawed by the 24th Amendment 52 years ago, really?

No, it's just one example, the most obvious. Do you need more?

Sure, give me something from this decade.

NC's voter ID law.

Need more?

 

[OKTexas]

Give me an example of a law that only applies to certain citizens.

Not going to play that game.

There are laws designed to or which inadvertently have a disproportionate effect on certain classes of people. For example the Poll Tax.

So the best example you got was outlawed by the 24th Amendment 52 years ago, really?

No, it's just one example, the most obvious. Do you need more?

Sure, give me something from this decade.

NC's voter ID law.

Need more?

It will be upheld on appeal, the district court got it right. Next.

 

[Coyote]

Not going to play that game.

There are laws designed to or which inadvertently have a disproportionate effect on certain classes of people. For example the Poll Tax.

This isn't a poll tax. A poll tax eliminates people that can't afford such taxes. At least as far as I read, if a person can claim they can't afford a Voter-ID, it's provided to them at no cost.

The Poll Tax was in reply to a specific question by OKTexas.

I would want an absolute guarantee that every eligible voter can get the necessary ID easily and efficiently. In addition, the list of allowable ID's should be expanded. For example - why is a concealed carry permit or a military ID ok but a student ID not? (in Republican states).

Voting is too important a right to infringe imo and there have been many attempts throughout history to do so.

The same student IDs are given to citizens and foreigners alike.

It still shows who they are.

Concealed carry permits can be given to non-citizens as well, and the ID looks the same.

 

[Coyote]

Not going to play that game.

There are laws designed to or which inadvertently have a disproportionate effect on certain classes of people. For example the Poll Tax.

So the best example you got was outlawed by the 24th Amendment 52 years ago, really?

No, it's just one example, the most obvious. Do you need more?

Sure, give me something from this decade.

NC's voter ID law.

Need more?

It will be upheld on appeal, the district court got it right. Next.

Ok, now you're grasping at straws.

At this point - it has not been upheld, it's been quite strongly struck down. Until then, it's an example.

Do you need more examples?

 

[HnL]

Ohio poll workers are American citizens, not an “illegal.”

Until they commit CRIMES (voter fraud)

No, they remain American citizens, moron.

 

[francoHFW]

OP- Statistically, it doesn't exist, hater dupes.

 

[OKTexas]

Not going to play that game.

There are laws designed to or which inadvertently have a disproportionate effect on certain classes of people. For example the Poll Tax.

This isn't a poll tax. A poll tax eliminates people that can't afford such taxes. At least as far as I read, if a person can claim they can't afford a Voter-ID, it's provided to them at no cost.

The Poll Tax was in reply to a specific question by OKTexas.

I would want an absolute guarantee that every eligible voter can get the necessary ID easily and efficiently. In addition, the list of allowable ID's should be expanded. For example - why is a concealed carry permit or a military ID ok but a student ID not? (in Republican states).

Voting is too important a right to infringe imo and there have been many attempts throughout history to do so.

The same student IDs are given to citizens and foreigners alike.

It still shows who they are.

Concealed carry permits can be given to non-citizens as well, and the ID looks the same.

Then they shouldn't be allowed for voter ID.

 

[OKTexas]

So the best example you got was outlawed by the 24th Amendment 52 years ago, really?

No, it's just one example, the most obvious. Do you need more?

Sure, give me something from this decade.

NC's voter ID law.

Need more?

It will be upheld on appeal, the district court got it right. Next.

Ok, now you're grasping at straws.

At this point - it has not been upheld, it's been quite strongly struck down. Until then, it's an example.

Do you need more examples?

Did you read the decision, the appeals court assumed discrimination where the district court found none.

 

[Coyote]

Not going to play that game.

There are laws designed to or which inadvertently have a disproportionate effect on certain classes of people. For example the Poll Tax.

This isn't a poll tax. A poll tax eliminates people that can't afford such taxes. At least as far as I read, if a person can claim they can't afford a Voter-ID, it's provided to them at no cost.

The Poll Tax was in reply to a specific question by OKTexas.

I would want an absolute guarantee that every eligible voter can get the necessary ID easily and efficiently. In addition, the list of allowable ID's should be expanded. For example - why is a concealed carry permit or a military ID ok but a student ID not? (in Republican states).

Voting is too important a right to infringe imo and there have been many attempts throughout history to do so.

The same student IDs are given to citizens and foreigners alike.

It still shows who they are.

Concealed carry permits can be given to non-citizens as well, and the ID looks the same.

Then they shouldn't be allowed for voter ID.

Actually why not?

The only point at which you need to prove you are a citizen should be at registration. Otherwise you only need to prove you are who you are and live where you live.