Rigged Elections and Voter Fraud - how common is fraud? Not very.

[Carl in Michigan]

The report also noted that in 2000, random checks by the Honolulu city clerk’s office found 200 registered voters who admitted they were not U.S. citizens. And in 2004, at least 35 foreign citizens applied for and received voter cards in Harris County, Texas, the report noted.

 

[HnL]

Name one “illegal” in Ohio who has ever voted.

Just one.

Dumbass.
"Secretary of State Jon Husted has referred 44 cases of non-U.S. citizens illegally voting in Ohio to the attorney general for further review

Be sure to get back to us if they are ever convicted

You remain a dumbass:

Ohioan gets 5-year prison term for illegal voting

She wasn't an “illegal” alien, idiot.

Try reading next time.

I have already determined that reading your nonsense is a waste of time lol.

Because you couldn't see that I asked for one example of an “illegal” voting in Ohio?

Get a reading tutor then.

 

[Bush92]

Dumbass.
"Secretary of State Jon Husted has referred 44 cases of non-U.S. citizens illegally voting in Ohio to the attorney general for further review

Be sure to get back to us if they are ever convicted

You remain a dumbass:

Ohioan gets 5-year prison term for illegal voting

She wasn't an “illegal” alien, idiot.

Try reading next time.

I have already determined that reading your nonsense is a waste of time lol.

Because you couldn't see that I asked for one example of an “illegal” voting in Ohio?

Get a reading tutor then.

OMG this is too good....

 

[HnL]

They are illegals dumbass, it's pretty obvious breaking the laws don't bother them.

They can't REGISTER to vote, moron. So if they go vote with their photo IDs, they won't be in the voter rolls. What part of that is hard for you to understand?

They are sent voter registration if they have a drivers licence.

No, they are not.

They make you keep a cork on the end of your fork so you don't stab yourself in the head huh?

They have these things we call in debates called “citations”

Your hallucinations don't count as a citation.

And, btw, I registered people to vote in Ohio. So I know what they send and what they require.

 

[HnL]

The report also noted that in 2000, random checks by the Honolulu city clerk’s office found 200 registered voters who admitted they were not U.S. citizens. And in 2004, at least 35 foreign citizens applied for and received voter cards in Harris County, Texas, the report noted.

Names and bodies, please. Your ghosts, I will admit, are piling up.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Ohio poll workers are American citizens, not an “illegal.”

Until they commit CRIMES (voter fraud)

 

[Coyote]

Here's an interesting comparison....brought about by the school shooting analogy earlier.

Voting is a right.
So is gun ownership.

Think about that in terms of adding layers of laws that restrict those rights.

We have layers of laws related to guns, including background checks to verify eligibility, why not for voting?

We have them for voting.

As much as we need for a process that doesn't kill people.

 

[Coyote]

Do you want to disenfranchise shut-ins like my Mom, or folks who will be away from home on Election Day like me? Or are you just like nterested in suppressing the vote because you know that's the way Trump might win?

How many verified cases of voter fraud?

Voters First Canvasser Arrested for Submitting Fraudulent Petitions - Media Trackers

Not voting, fail

York: When 1,099 felons vote in race won by 312 ballots

GOP Voter Fraud Hucksters Latest Lie: Felons Made Franken U.S. Senator

Fail

Opposing view: In Texas, evidence of voter fraud abounds

Opinion piece. Fail

Deceased man receiving voter registration card ever year in mail

Registered isn't voting.

Vote fraud alert: One out of five registered Ohio voters is bogus | Human Events

Registered isn't voting.

18 Former Acorn Workers Have Been Convicted Or Admitted Guilt In Election Fraud

Registration fraud is not the same as voter fraud


Out of time so I'll leave with this


Baseless viral image about voter fraud makes a comeback

Right, they are all fail to you, huh? Voter ID prevents all these voter fraud attempts and would have stopped the successes.

Voter ID would prevent almost none of them - those that are actually fraud attempts rather than conjecture.

 

[Coyote]

Tell ya what, let's require proof of citizenship and proper ID for one election and see what happens to the numbers showing up to vote. Deal?

Quite a few states have had Voter ID for some time now. And it has not stopped the types of fraud which occur. I've been pointing it out to you tards for a long time. Years.

But they still aren't allowed to verify citizenship for voter registration. The system is designed to encourage fraud.

It seems to have worked just fine for years and years...until suddenly someone decided there was fraud and simultaneously came up with a stack of new regulations that disproportionatly affected those who tend to vote for the opposition.

I still haven't figured out how cutting early voting, reducing voting hours and stopping Sunday voting prevents fraud.

 

[Coyote]

If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times. We need to tighten up the registration process and stop wasting taxpayer dollars on a completely ineffective government program.

When you get your driver's license, you have to establish your citizenship. At that point, you should automatically be registered to vote. "Motor voter laws" are great at achieving this.

So automatically register people to vote who really don't care about voting, probably know nothing about politics and issues, and couldn't even tell you what party had leadership of the Congress.

The way I see it, we have way too many uninformed people voting as it is. We certainly don't need more of them--if anything, less of them.

We also have a lot of uninformed people owning guns.

But that is not sufficient reason to disenfranchise them of their rights.

 

[Coyote]

For Democrats, yes, because without any safeguards, they can continue voting fraudulently.

Nice of you to share your hallucination. In order to continue something, it had to be done in the past. And there is zero evidence of in person voter impersonation in Ohio. But nice try.

How could I possibly get caught?

You are talking about voter REGISTRATION fraud. Are you seriously claiming that voter REGISTRATION fraud is a significant problem in Ohio?

Nice of you to share your hallucination. In order to continue something, it had to be done in the past. And there is zero evidence of in person voter impersonation in Ohio. But nice try.

Ohio nun pleads guilty to voter fraud; avoids prison

Oh boy. There's one more.

 

[Coyote]

We have Donald Trump and his zealots already paving the way for allegations of mass fraud and rigged elections.

Based on what evidence? Almost none.

Everytime Trump drops in the polls, he pulls out the fraud card. It's never his own doing -

• the Media is against him (never mind the fact that they never pressed him very hard on his lies);

• the Clintons are rigging it (never mind the fact that there is no evidence of that happening and rigging a national election is next to impossible in this country).

• Voter fraud - this, based on a handful of allegations, a lack of actual evidence, and over the years precious few convictions.

So somehow all this - not the man's character, not his lack of any sort of filter, not his policies or actions - are losing him the election. It's utter madness and logic


Comprehensive 10-Year Voter Fraud Study Found: It’s a GOP Myth

These warnings are not new and not supported by evidence; they defy numerous studies that have found that voter fraud is minimal.

They also invite a question: If the election is rigged, who is doing the rigging?

Presidential elections are conducted on a state-by-state basis, not nationally. And in most of the states seen as presidential battlegrounds, the chief elections officers are Republicans — most directly accountable to their state's voters.

• In Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Ohio and Utah, the chief elections officer of the state is a Republican, elected by voters of the state. Most are secretary of state; Utah’s lieutenant governor oversees elections there.
• In Florida, the secretary of state is appointed by the state’s Republican governor, Rick Scott — a Trump supporter.
• In North Carolina, the state board of elections has five members, appointed by the governor — currently a Republican. Its current chairman and three out of five members are Republicans.

There are states with some measure of Democratic control over the process.

• In Minnesota and Missouri, the chief elections officer is a Democrat elected by the voters of the state.
• Pennsylvania’s secretary of state was appointed by the state’s Democratic governor.
• New Hampshire’s longtime secretary of state was once a Democrat, but was reelected to his post by the Republican-led state legislature.
• Virginia’s Democratic governor, Terry McAuliffe — a longtime Clinton ally — appointed each member of that state’s three-person elections board.

Comprehensive 10-Year Voter Fraud Study Found: It’s a GOP Myth

...The Washington Post’s “Wonkblog” offers a summary of studies and investigations that have examined the issue of voter fraud. These studies have been conducted by academic researchers, news organizations, and state governments. They all produced similar results: The massive “in person” voter fraud that Republicans claim is helping Democrats steal elections simply does not exist.


Out of all of the research cited in the story, the investigations conducted by various states are the most interesting, because they were conducted by states that are currently controlled by Republicans. For example, the Kansas secretary of state took a look at 84 million votes cast in 22 states, trying to find duplicate registrations. The result? They referred 14 cases to prosecutors. Fourteen. Out of 84 million votes.



North Carolina also participated in the multi-state voter “cross check” program. Their survey of 28 states turned up 765 people with the same names, birth dates, and whose Social Security numbers ended with the same four digits, who voted in North Carolina and another state, according to the Charlotte News and Observer. There is no word on how many, if any, of those people will be prosecuted. Even if all 765 were guilty of voter fraud, it is still a tiny percentage of the nearly seven million votes cast in North Carolina in 2012, and certainly not enough to sway the outcome of an election.


Iowa’s Republican secretary of state Matt Schultz spent two years, and over a quarter of a million taxpayer dollars, to find 117 possibly fraudulent votes, leading to only six convictions. Of those who were convicted, three were felons who believed that their right to vote had been restored.


Even though voter fraud does not exist on the level that Republicans claim that it does, there are instances of possible voter fraud in almost every election. Here are a few examples:

• Last year in Virginia, Adam Ward pleaded guilty to faking hundreds of signatures that were needed for Newt Gingrich to be eligible to appear on the state’s primary election ballot.
• In 2012, Charlie White, Indiana’s Republican secretary of state was convicted of six felony counts of voter fraud.
• Also in 2012, four staffers of Michigan Republican congressman Thaddeus McCotter were found guilty of forging over 1500 signatures in an attempt to qualify the congressman for the ballot.
• Wisconsin Tea Partier and Scott Walker supporter Robert Monroe has been charged with casting multiple ballots in several elections.

NO ONE claims it doesn't occur (despite misleading claims by some) - but it's very uncommon. Why is it uncommon? It's not a very successful way of throwing an election. People will always find examples to throw in as "proof" but so what? A handful out of millions of votes? And that is sufficient excuse to try and undermine our entire electoral integrity with this infectious madness?

Hell, the Democrats could have flown that flag with Gore vs Bush, called for violence and armed poll watchers. But this madness is new and the source is Trump. Everyone is "against him" - everyone is "biased" - the Dems, the media, the Republican establishment. Maybe it's not "Them" - maybe it's Trump himself who causing people to turn away. Ever think of that?

Vote fraud has been a major factor in multiple Presidential elections. Look up Benjamin Harrison for starters.

"Vote" fraud or "Voter" fraud? There's a difference between electoral fraud - ie ballot stuffing etc and voter fraud claiming to be a voter you aren't.

 

[Coyote]

Quite a few states have had Voter ID for some time now. And it has not stopped the types of fraud which occur. I've been pointing it out to you tards for a long time. Years.

But they still aren't allowed to verify citizenship for voter registration. The system is designed to encourage fraud.

Which states forbid citizenship verification?

Federal law prevents it, the courts have said, the affirmation of citizenship on the registration form is all that is required.

Supreme Court says states may not add citizenship proof for voter registration

You are required under penalty of law to affirm that you are a citizen.

Right, like people won't lie, just like the WI mall shooter lied and voted in 3 elections. Makes one wonder how many millions more are out there like him.

One guy and there's gotta be millions more....

 

[Coyote]

Thanks for showing us how un-American you are.

You are confirming the theory that pseudocons are opposed to universal suffrage and all for disenfranchisement.

So what's un-American about it? Don't you think we would have a better government if only those who knew WTF they were voting on voted?

Let's say the baseball league allowed the citizens of their city to vote on players of their baseball team. In my city, they tested people to see how much they knew about the game and players before they could vote. In your city, they allowed anybody to vote whether they knew anything about baseball or not.

Which city do you think would end up with the better team?

Part of voter-ID does have something to do with this, but of course they won't say that. Democrats fight against it for the same reason, and here it is:

Many Democrat voters are lazy. Sure, they will vote if somebody drives them to the polls, if they could stop by day or night during specific weeks, vote from home, but if they had to put any effort into voting, many of them would likely sit home. Why? Because voting isn't very important to them in the first place.

Voter-ID laws makes you put some effort into voting, and only those that are very concerned about their country will take the trouble to get such an ID.

Republicans realize their camp will make sure they vote. For Democrats, it would be a huge concern. No longer would they be able to pull hobos off of train tracks, give them a pack of cigarettes, and shove them into the car for a ride to the voting place. That's the real reason they are against it, and use race as a cheap excuse.

Bullshit.

 

[Coyote]

• the Clintons are rigging it (never mind the fact that there is no evidence of that happening and rigging a national election is next to impossible in this country).

If you're not a paid shill, I weep for you extra.

Could you enlighten us then? How is this election being "rigged"?

 

[Coyote]

We have Donald Trump and his zealots already paving the way for allegations of mass fraud and rigged elections.

Based on what evidence? Almost none.

Everytime Trump drops in the polls, he pulls out the fraud card. It's never his own doing -

• the Media is against him (never mind the fact that they never pressed him very hard on his lies);

• the Clintons are rigging it (never mind the fact that there is no evidence of that happening and rigging a national election is next to impossible in this country).

• Voter fraud - this, based on a handful of allegations, a lack of actual evidence, and over the years precious few convictions.

So somehow all this - not the man's character, not his lack of any sort of filter, not his policies or actions - are losing him the election. It's utter madness and logic


Comprehensive 10-Year Voter Fraud Study Found: It’s a GOP Myth

These warnings are not new and not supported by evidence; they defy numerous studies that have found that voter fraud is minimal.

They also invite a question: If the election is rigged, who is doing the rigging?

Presidential elections are conducted on a state-by-state basis, not nationally. And in most of the states seen as presidential battlegrounds, the chief elections officers are Republicans — most directly accountable to their state's voters.

• In Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Ohio and Utah, the chief elections officer of the state is a Republican, elected by voters of the state. Most are secretary of state; Utah’s lieutenant governor oversees elections there.
• In Florida, the secretary of state is appointed by the state’s Republican governor, Rick Scott — a Trump supporter.
• In North Carolina, the state board of elections has five members, appointed by the governor — currently a Republican. Its current chairman and three out of five members are Republicans.

There are states with some measure of Democratic control over the process.

• In Minnesota and Missouri, the chief elections officer is a Democrat elected by the voters of the state.
• Pennsylvania’s secretary of state was appointed by the state’s Democratic governor.
• New Hampshire’s longtime secretary of state was once a Democrat, but was reelected to his post by the Republican-led state legislature.
• Virginia’s Democratic governor, Terry McAuliffe — a longtime Clinton ally — appointed each member of that state’s three-person elections board.

Comprehensive 10-Year Voter Fraud Study Found: It’s a GOP Myth

...The Washington Post’s “Wonkblog” offers a summary of studies and investigations that have examined the issue of voter fraud. These studies have been conducted by academic researchers, news organizations, and state governments. They all produced similar results: The massive “in person” voter fraud that Republicans claim is helping Democrats steal elections simply does not exist.


Out of all of the research cited in the story, the investigations conducted by various states are the most interesting, because they were conducted by states that are currently controlled by Republicans. For example, the Kansas secretary of state took a look at 84 million votes cast in 22 states, trying to find duplicate registrations. The result? They referred 14 cases to prosecutors. Fourteen. Out of 84 million votes.



North Carolina also participated in the multi-state voter “cross check” program. Their survey of 28 states turned up 765 people with the same names, birth dates, and whose Social Security numbers ended with the same four digits, who voted in North Carolina and another state, according to the Charlotte News and Observer. There is no word on how many, if any, of those people will be prosecuted. Even if all 765 were guilty of voter fraud, it is still a tiny percentage of the nearly seven million votes cast in North Carolina in 2012, and certainly not enough to sway the outcome of an election.


Iowa’s Republican secretary of state Matt Schultz spent two years, and over a quarter of a million taxpayer dollars, to find 117 possibly fraudulent votes, leading to only six convictions. Of those who were convicted, three were felons who believed that their right to vote had been restored.


Even though voter fraud does not exist on the level that Republicans claim that it does, there are instances of possible voter fraud in almost every election. Here are a few examples:

• Last year in Virginia, Adam Ward pleaded guilty to faking hundreds of signatures that were needed for Newt Gingrich to be eligible to appear on the state’s primary election ballot.
• In 2012, Charlie White, Indiana’s Republican secretary of state was convicted of six felony counts of voter fraud.
• Also in 2012, four staffers of Michigan Republican congressman Thaddeus McCotter were found guilty of forging over 1500 signatures in an attempt to qualify the congressman for the ballot.
• Wisconsin Tea Partier and Scott Walker supporter Robert Monroe has been charged with casting multiple ballots in several elections.

NO ONE claims it doesn't occur (despite misleading claims by some) - but it's very uncommon. Why is it uncommon? It's not a very successful way of throwing an election. People will always find examples to throw in as "proof" but so what? A handful out of millions of votes? And that is sufficient excuse to try and undermine our entire electoral integrity with this infectious madness?

Hell, the Democrats could have flown that flag with Gore vs Bush, called for violence and armed poll watchers. But this madness is new and the source is Trump. Everyone is "against him" - everyone is "biased" - the Dems, the media, the Republican establishment. Maybe it's not "Them" - maybe it's Trump himself who causing people to turn away. Ever think of that?

How many illegal aliens will vote in swing states?
You are completely blind if you cannot see the media bias.

Please provide evidence of this widespread illegal voter fraud. Otherwise - I'm thinking the issue isn't blindness but rather delusional thinking. You even managed to squeeze in media bias!

 

[Coyote]

We have Donald Trump and his zealots already paving the way for allegations of mass fraud and rigged elections.

Based on what evidence? Almost none.

Everytime Trump drops in the polls, he pulls out the fraud card. It's never his own doing -

• the Media is against him (never mind the fact that they never pressed him very hard on his lies);

• the Clintons are rigging it (never mind the fact that there is no evidence of that happening and rigging a national election is next to impossible in this country).

• Voter fraud - this, based on a handful of allegations, a lack of actual evidence, and over the years precious few convictions.

So somehow all this - not the man's character, not his lack of any sort of filter, not his policies or actions - are losing him the election. It's utter madness and logic


Comprehensive 10-Year Voter Fraud Study Found: It’s a GOP Myth

These warnings are not new and not supported by evidence; they defy numerous studies that have found that voter fraud is minimal.

They also invite a question: If the election is rigged, who is doing the rigging?

Presidential elections are conducted on a state-by-state basis, not nationally. And in most of the states seen as presidential battlegrounds, the chief elections officers are Republicans — most directly accountable to their state's voters.

• In Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Ohio and Utah, the chief elections officer of the state is a Republican, elected by voters of the state. Most are secretary of state; Utah’s lieutenant governor oversees elections there.
• In Florida, the secretary of state is appointed by the state’s Republican governor, Rick Scott — a Trump supporter.
• In North Carolina, the state board of elections has five members, appointed by the governor — currently a Republican. Its current chairman and three out of five members are Republicans.

There are states with some measure of Democratic control over the process.

• In Minnesota and Missouri, the chief elections officer is a Democrat elected by the voters of the state.
• Pennsylvania’s secretary of state was appointed by the state’s Democratic governor.
• New Hampshire’s longtime secretary of state was once a Democrat, but was reelected to his post by the Republican-led state legislature.
• Virginia’s Democratic governor, Terry McAuliffe — a longtime Clinton ally — appointed each member of that state’s three-person elections board.

Comprehensive 10-Year Voter Fraud Study Found: It’s a GOP Myth

...The Washington Post’s “Wonkblog” offers a summary of studies and investigations that have examined the issue of voter fraud. These studies have been conducted by academic researchers, news organizations, and state governments. They all produced similar results: The massive “in person” voter fraud that Republicans claim is helping Democrats steal elections simply does not exist.


Out of all of the research cited in the story, the investigations conducted by various states are the most interesting, because they were conducted by states that are currently controlled by Republicans. For example, the Kansas secretary of state took a look at 84 million votes cast in 22 states, trying to find duplicate registrations. The result? They referred 14 cases to prosecutors. Fourteen. Out of 84 million votes.



North Carolina also participated in the multi-state voter “cross check” program. Their survey of 28 states turned up 765 people with the same names, birth dates, and whose Social Security numbers ended with the same four digits, who voted in North Carolina and another state, according to the Charlotte News and Observer. There is no word on how many, if any, of those people will be prosecuted. Even if all 765 were guilty of voter fraud, it is still a tiny percentage of the nearly seven million votes cast in North Carolina in 2012, and certainly not enough to sway the outcome of an election.


Iowa’s Republican secretary of state Matt Schultz spent two years, and over a quarter of a million taxpayer dollars, to find 117 possibly fraudulent votes, leading to only six convictions. Of those who were convicted, three were felons who believed that their right to vote had been restored.


Even though voter fraud does not exist on the level that Republicans claim that it does, there are instances of possible voter fraud in almost every election. Here are a few examples:

• Last year in Virginia, Adam Ward pleaded guilty to faking hundreds of signatures that were needed for Newt Gingrich to be eligible to appear on the state’s primary election ballot.
• In 2012, Charlie White, Indiana’s Republican secretary of state was convicted of six felony counts of voter fraud.
• Also in 2012, four staffers of Michigan Republican congressman Thaddeus McCotter were found guilty of forging over 1500 signatures in an attempt to qualify the congressman for the ballot.
• Wisconsin Tea Partier and Scott Walker supporter Robert Monroe has been charged with casting multiple ballots in several elections.

NO ONE claims it doesn't occur (despite misleading claims by some) - but it's very uncommon. Why is it uncommon? It's not a very successful way of throwing an election. People will always find examples to throw in as "proof" but so what? A handful out of millions of votes? And that is sufficient excuse to try and undermine our entire electoral integrity with this infectious madness?

Hell, the Democrats could have flown that flag with Gore vs Bush, called for violence and armed poll watchers. But this madness is new and the source is Trump. Everyone is "against him" - everyone is "biased" - the Dems, the media, the Republican establishment. Maybe it's not "Them" - maybe it's Trump himself who causing people to turn away. Ever think of that?

Voter fraud is rampant. From thugs in Philadelphia blocking access to polling places. To lawsuits filed against the State of Florida to prevent the state from purging voter rolls of deceased individuals and those who'v either left the state or have not voted in 10 or more years. To those who have admitted voting multiple times in the same election.
Democrats are trying to rig the election...Period.

If it's rampant - where is the evidence? Convictions? Arrests?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

No, voter fraud isn’t a myth: 10 cases where it’s all too real

10. Voter registration cards sent to illegals in Pennsylvania.

In September, the secretary of state’s office in Pennsylvania mailed about 2.5 million voter registration postcards to people who are not registered voters, but are licensed drivers. Secretary of State Pedro Cortes admitted to the House of Representatives that seven people had reported that they received voter registration cards in error, self-reporting.

State Rep. Daryl Metcalfe, a Butler County Republican who chairs the State Government Committee, said in September testimony that there’s several problem’s with the state’s voter registration system.

“There’s certainly the potential for hundreds, if not thousands, of foreigners here legally and illegally to be on our voter rolls, and a certain percentage who are casting ballots,” Mr. Metchalfe told LifeZette. “We’ve got a lot of integrity issues that need to be addressed.”

Voter 'fraud' is a myth to the extent that no election outcome has been 'changed' as a result of 'fraud.'

Rare, isolated, anecdotal occurrences of 'fraud' happen so infrequently that such events in no way justify un-Constitutional measures that place an undue burden on the right to vote, voter 'ID' laws being one example.

 

[OKTexas]

Here's an interesting comparison....brought about by the school shooting analogy earlier.

Voting is a right.
So is gun ownership.

Think about that in terms of adding layers of laws that restrict those rights.

We have layers of laws related to guns, including background checks to verify eligibility, why not for voting?

We have them for voting.

As much as we need for a process that doesn't kill people.

Yeah, they just take peoples word, and then have no meaningful ways to verify they told the truth. Once again, why is it only you regressives that object to voting eligibility verification systems? What are you trying to keep hidden?

 

[Coyote]

This is what I mean about pseudocons sounding just like 60s and 70s liberals. You have no concept of freedom whatsoever.

Who is going to decided who is qualified to vote? The government?

My idea is a test. A simple test that anybody who is even aware of what's going on in politics should be able to pass. Nothing hard at all.

Perhaps questions like who is in leadership of the House? Who is the Vice President and what party does he or she represent? In what document can you find the Bill of Rights?

The thing is, even a simple test like that would disallow people like the Obama Money lady and her ilk from voting.

But it's like the question I asked that you didn't answer: who would have a better baseball team, your city or mine? I don't ask this because (as of a few minutes ago) we are going to the World Series, I ask because of who we have running for President today. Quite different in many ways, but the one thing they have in common is they are both common household names. That's why America chose them out of all people.

The uninformed voters vote on their representatives like they do their favorite American Idol contestants. It's not a wonder why we end up with what we end up with:

As citizens we have a right to vote, as aggravating as some uninformed people are...you can't remove that right and then tax them, subject them to laws they have no say in etc. I understand your sentiments, but we can't go there....