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Drivers licenses can be forged too. Believe me...I know, working among underage students in a college town on game night
I dare you to try to forge one of our drivers licenses here in Ohio. How does one forge a plastic card compared to a paper utility bill? Or do you have paper drivers licenses where you live?
The thing is - why would people go to so much trouble to forge id just to vote?
You've said that those who have trouble getting the right ID are too lazy, but you seem to think people are willing to go to a lot of trouble to fake an id - just to cast one vote?
I'm no expert in forgery, but it's been done with drivers licenses - that's why their always trying to improve them and make them harder to forge.
Citizens alone cannot commit the voter fraud on the large scale. That could be done only by the election officials and by those who are in power over ballot boxes/voting machines/vote counts. That's why voter ID laws are necessary to make sure that only registered voters with proper ID can cast only one vote. Stuffing boxes would be impossible.
Exactly.The problem of race is less that it's deliberately racist (other than trying to affect those who tend to vote democrat) then that it's effectively racist (in that those affected by the laws are disproportionately minorities).
One law fits all. Well, that's what the poll tax was, but it was struck down.
No, because a poll tax eliminated people that had no ability to pay. Voter-ID is something everybody can obtain. It may require you to take some effort on your part, but it's far from impossible.
So why are you regressives spending so much on lawyers trying to kill these laws, couldn't you put those same funds helping people get their IDs?
Why are you regressives trying so hard to prevent your opponents from voting?
Only the ineligible and illegal, that's not regressive at all.
Nothing regressive in insisting that all eligible voters are able to vote either. So why are you throwing around "regressive regressive regressive"?
Feel free to point out any quote from me that said eligible voters shouldn't be voting. I just want them to prove eligibility. Just like we make you prove you're eligible to buy alcohol, cigarettes, drive, cash a check, open a bank account or any of the thousands of other activities that require proof of eligibility.
If all you want is to prove eligibility, then greatly expand the list of allowable ID's.
I'm no expert in forgery, but it's been done with drivers licenses - that's why their always trying to improve them and make them harder to forge.
Yes they are, but your utility company doesn't make the same effort.
No, the bill would only prove your address theoretically. But using it as one form of ID along with a picture ID should be sufficient. There is no reason to make it as restrictive as some of those laws have been.
Christ stop pretending this issue ever mattered to you prior to 2012 when republican officials starting whining about it.So why are you regressives spending so much on lawyers trying to kill these laws, couldn't you put those same funds helping people get their IDs?
Why are you regressives trying so hard to prevent your opponents from voting?
Only the ineligible and illegal, that's not regressive at all.
Nothing regressive in insisting that all eligible voters are able to vote either. So why are you throwing around "regressive regressive regressive"?
Feel free to point out any quote from me that said eligible voters shouldn't be voting. I just want them to prove eligibility. Just like we make you prove you're eligible to buy alcohol, cigarettes, drive, cash a check, open a bank account or any of the thousands of other activities that require proof of eligibility.
We have Donald Trump and his zealots already paving the way for allegations of mass fraud and rigged elections.
Based on what evidence? Almost none.
Everytime Trump drops in the polls, he pulls out the fraud card. It's never his own doing -
- the Media is against him (never mind the fact that they never pressed him very hard on his lies);
- the Clintons are rigging it (never mind the fact that there is no evidence of that happening and rigging a national election is next to impossible in this country).
So somehow all this - not the man's character, not his lack of any sort of filter, not his policies or actions - are losing him the election. It's utter madness and logic
- Voter fraud - this, based on a handful of allegations, a lack of actual evidence, and over the years precious few convictions.
Comprehensive 10-Year Voter Fraud Study Found: It’s a GOP Myth
These warnings are not new and not supported by evidence; they defy numerous studies that have found that voter fraud is minimal.
They also invite a question: If the election is rigged, who is doing the rigging?
Presidential elections are conducted on a state-by-state basis, not nationally. And in most of the states seen as presidential battlegrounds, the chief elections officers are Republicans — most directly accountable to their state's voters.
There are states with some measure of Democratic control over the process.
- In Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Ohio and Utah, the chief elections officer of the state is a Republican, elected by voters of the state. Most are secretary of state; Utah’s lieutenant governor oversees elections there.
- In Florida, the secretary of state is appointed by the state’s Republican governor, Rick Scott — a Trump supporter.
- In North Carolina, the state board of elections has five members, appointed by the governor — currently a Republican. Its current chairman and three out of five members are Republicans.
- In Minnesota and Missouri, the chief elections officer is a Democrat elected by the voters of the state.
- Pennsylvania’s secretary of state was appointed by the state’s Democratic governor.
- New Hampshire’s longtime secretary of state was once a Democrat, but was reelected to his post by the Republican-led state legislature.
- Virginia’s Democratic governor, Terry McAuliffe — a longtime Clinton ally — appointed each member of that state’s three-person elections board.
Comprehensive 10-Year Voter Fraud Study Found: It’s a GOP Myth
...The Washington Post’s “Wonkblog” offers a summary of studies and investigations that have examined the issue of voter fraud. These studies have been conducted by academic researchers, news organizations, and state governments. They all produced similar results: The massive “in person” voter fraud that Republicans claim is helping Democrats steal elections simply does not exist.
Out of all of the research cited in the story, the investigations conducted by various states are the most interesting, because they were conducted by states that are currently controlled by Republicans. For example, the Kansas secretary of state took a look at 84 million votes cast in 22 states, trying to find duplicate registrations. The result? They referred 14 cases to prosecutors. Fourteen. Out of 84 million votes.
North Carolina also participated in the multi-state voter “cross check” program. Their survey of 28 states turned up 765 people with the same names, birth dates, and whose Social Security numbers ended with the same four digits, who voted in North Carolina and another state, according to the Charlotte News and Observer. There is no word on how many, if any, of those people will be prosecuted. Even if all 765 were guilty of voter fraud, it is still a tiny percentage of the nearly seven million votes cast in North Carolina in 2012, and certainly not enough to sway the outcome of an election.
Iowa’s Republican secretary of state Matt Schultz spent two years, and over a quarter of a million taxpayer dollars, to find 117 possibly fraudulent votes, leading to only six convictions. Of those who were convicted, three were felons who believed that their right to vote had been restored.
Even though voter fraud does not exist on the level that Republicans claim that it does, there are instances of possible voter fraud in almost every election. Here are a few examples:
- Last year in Virginia, Adam Ward pleaded guilty to faking hundreds of signatures that were needed for Newt Gingrich to be eligible to appear on the state’s primary election ballot.
- In 2012, Charlie White, Indiana’s Republican secretary of state was convicted of six felony counts of voter fraud.
- Also in 2012, four staffers of Michigan Republican congressman Thaddeus McCotter were found guilty of forging over 1500 signatures in an attempt to qualify the congressman for the ballot.
- Wisconsin Tea Partier and Scott Walker supporter Robert Monroe has been charged with casting multiple ballots in several elections.
NO ONE claims it doesn't occur (despite misleading claims by some) - but it's very uncommon. Why is it uncommon? It's not a very successful way of throwing an election. People will always find examples to throw in as "proof" but so what? A handful out of millions of votes? And that is sufficient excuse to try and undermine our entire electoral integrity with this infectious madness?
Hell, the Democrats could have flown that flag with Gore vs Bush, called for violence and armed poll watchers. But this madness is new and the source is Trump. Everyone is "against him" - everyone is "biased" - the Dems, the media, the Republican establishment. Maybe it's not "Them" - maybe it's Trump himself who causing people to turn away. Ever think of that?
We have Donald Trump and his zealots already paving the way for allegations of mass fraud and rigged elections.
Based on what evidence? Almost none.
Everytime Trump drops in the polls, he pulls out the fraud card. It's never his own doing -
- the Media is against him (never mind the fact that they never pressed him very hard on his lies);
- the Clintons are rigging it (never mind the fact that there is no evidence of that happening and rigging a national election is next to impossible in this country).
So somehow all this - not the man's character, not his lack of any sort of filter, not his policies or actions - are losing him the election. It's utter madness and logic
- Voter fraud - this, based on a handful of allegations, a lack of actual evidence, and over the years precious few convictions.
Comprehensive 10-Year Voter Fraud Study Found: It’s a GOP Myth
These warnings are not new and not supported by evidence; they defy numerous studies that have found that voter fraud is minimal.
They also invite a question: If the election is rigged, who is doing the rigging?
Presidential elections are conducted on a state-by-state basis, not nationally. And in most of the states seen as presidential battlegrounds, the chief elections officers are Republicans — most directly accountable to their state's voters.
There are states with some measure of Democratic control over the process.
- In Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Ohio and Utah, the chief elections officer of the state is a Republican, elected by voters of the state. Most are secretary of state; Utah’s lieutenant governor oversees elections there.
- In Florida, the secretary of state is appointed by the state’s Republican governor, Rick Scott — a Trump supporter.
- In North Carolina, the state board of elections has five members, appointed by the governor — currently a Republican. Its current chairman and three out of five members are Republicans.
- In Minnesota and Missouri, the chief elections officer is a Democrat elected by the voters of the state.
- Pennsylvania’s secretary of state was appointed by the state’s Democratic governor.
- New Hampshire’s longtime secretary of state was once a Democrat, but was reelected to his post by the Republican-led state legislature.
- Virginia’s Democratic governor, Terry McAuliffe — a longtime Clinton ally — appointed each member of that state’s three-person elections board.
Comprehensive 10-Year Voter Fraud Study Found: It’s a GOP Myth
...The Washington Post’s “Wonkblog” offers a summary of studies and investigations that have examined the issue of voter fraud. These studies have been conducted by academic researchers, news organizations, and state governments. They all produced similar results: The massive “in person” voter fraud that Republicans claim is helping Democrats steal elections simply does not exist.
Out of all of the research cited in the story, the investigations conducted by various states are the most interesting, because they were conducted by states that are currently controlled by Republicans. For example, the Kansas secretary of state took a look at 84 million votes cast in 22 states, trying to find duplicate registrations. The result? They referred 14 cases to prosecutors. Fourteen. Out of 84 million votes.
North Carolina also participated in the multi-state voter “cross check” program. Their survey of 28 states turned up 765 people with the same names, birth dates, and whose Social Security numbers ended with the same four digits, who voted in North Carolina and another state, according to the Charlotte News and Observer. There is no word on how many, if any, of those people will be prosecuted. Even if all 765 were guilty of voter fraud, it is still a tiny percentage of the nearly seven million votes cast in North Carolina in 2012, and certainly not enough to sway the outcome of an election.
Iowa’s Republican secretary of state Matt Schultz spent two years, and over a quarter of a million taxpayer dollars, to find 117 possibly fraudulent votes, leading to only six convictions. Of those who were convicted, three were felons who believed that their right to vote had been restored.
Even though voter fraud does not exist on the level that Republicans claim that it does, there are instances of possible voter fraud in almost every election. Here are a few examples:
- Last year in Virginia, Adam Ward pleaded guilty to faking hundreds of signatures that were needed for Newt Gingrich to be eligible to appear on the state’s primary election ballot.
- In 2012, Charlie White, Indiana’s Republican secretary of state was convicted of six felony counts of voter fraud.
- Also in 2012, four staffers of Michigan Republican congressman Thaddeus McCotter were found guilty of forging over 1500 signatures in an attempt to qualify the congressman for the ballot.
- Wisconsin Tea Partier and Scott Walker supporter Robert Monroe has been charged with casting multiple ballots in several elections.
NO ONE claims it doesn't occur (despite misleading claims by some) - but it's very uncommon. Why is it uncommon? It's not a very successful way of throwing an election. People will always find examples to throw in as "proof" but so what? A handful out of millions of votes? And that is sufficient excuse to try and undermine our entire electoral integrity with this infectious madness?
Hell, the Democrats could have flown that flag with Gore vs Bush, called for violence and armed poll watchers. But this madness is new and the source is Trump. Everyone is "against him" - everyone is "biased" - the Dems, the media, the Republican establishment. Maybe it's not "Them" - maybe it's Trump himself who causing people to turn away. Ever think of that?
Why are you regressives trying so hard to prevent your opponents from voting?
Only the ineligible and illegal, that's not regressive at all.
Nothing regressive in insisting that all eligible voters are able to vote either. So why are you throwing around "regressive regressive regressive"?
Feel free to point out any quote from me that said eligible voters shouldn't be voting. I just want them to prove eligibility. Just like we make you prove you're eligible to buy alcohol, cigarettes, drive, cash a check, open a bank account or any of the thousands of other activities that require proof of eligibility.
If all you want is to prove eligibility, then greatly expand the list of allowable ID's.
And require proof of citizenship to register. You want to use college IDs, then require colleges to issue different IDs to non-citizens, same with public assistance IDs.
like this one
View attachment 94981
Citizens alone cannot commit the voter fraud on the large scale. That could be done only by the election officials and by those who are in power over ballot boxes/voting machines/vote counts. That's why voter ID laws are necessary to make sure that only registered voters with proper ID can cast only one vote. Stuffing boxes would be impossible.
Voter ID would have no effect on ballot stuffing.
Exactly.
...The Georgia court said that the claim that voter ID is the same as a poll tax “represents a dramatic overstatement.” Imposing tangential burdens “does not transform a regulation into a poll tax” and “the cost of time and transportation” to obtain a free ID “cannot plausibly qualify as a prohibited poll tax because those same ‘costs’ also result from voter registration and in-person voting requirements, which one would not reasonably construe as a poll tax.” All of the states implementing voter ID have provided free IDs for anyone who does not already have one. As Rhode Island state senator Harold Metts said, “In this day and age, very few adults lack one of the forms of identification that will be accepted, and the rare person who does can get a free voter-ID card....
The thing is - why would people go to so much trouble to forge id just to vote?
You've said that those who have trouble getting the right ID are too lazy, but you seem to think people are willing to go to a lot of trouble to fake an id - just to cast one vote?
That's a good question. Why would people go through the trouble of getting mentally retarded people to attend Trump rallies in hopes they will be attacked to make the candidate look bad?
Conceal carry permits can be issued to non-citizens in certain states. Yet they are an allowable ID.
Citizens alone cannot commit the voter fraud on the large scale. That could be done only by the election officials and by those who are in power over ballot boxes/voting machines/vote counts. That's why voter ID laws are necessary to make sure that only registered voters with proper ID can cast only one vote. Stuffing boxes would be impossible.
Voter ID would have no effect on ballot stuffing.
Clarify.
With voter ID, if there is one vote more counted than person voted, it could be proven that there is a fraud. One.
And in that case, I would void vote for whole precinct and do re-vote with additional oversight. Until it all match.
Conceal carry permits can be issued to non-citizens in certain states. Yet they are an allowable ID.
Which state allows that? Better yet, how many states allow that?
They do very little real shining.By the way, the press is in the business of asking questions and shining light on people's doings, right or wrong.
Trump already stated he'd like to see most of what the press does made illegal.
Citizens alone cannot commit the voter fraud on the large scale. That could be done only by the election officials and by those who are in power over ballot boxes/voting machines/vote counts. That's why voter ID laws are necessary to make sure that only registered voters with proper ID can cast only one vote. Stuffing boxes would be impossible.
Voter ID would have no effect on ballot stuffing.
Clarify.
With voter ID, if there is one vote more counted than person voted, it could be proven that there is a fraud. One.
And in that case, I would void vote for whole precinct and do re-vote with additional oversight. Until it all match.
Ballot stuffing is when one person submits multiple ballots during a vote. ID wouldn't make a difference in that.
Apples and oranges.
Nebraska, for one.
I don't actually know how many, but even if one does - it calls into question the ID as somehow being proof of citizenship. Required documentation for a permit varies per state.
It's no more reliable than a student ID. But student's tend to vote Democrat...
