Sabra and Shatila: 30 Years Ago Today

[irosie91]

I will help you forever-----georgie advocates ----that when islamo nazis are a MAJORITY-----the rights of jews be determined by VOTE

Adolf abu ali-----had the same idea

In the USA-----slave owners had the same idea regarding the rights of blacks

in the mind of georgie and other islamo nazis------HE HAS DEFINED
"DEMOCRACY"

really-----I have come across many people who post on the net who insist----if a country VOTES FOR SHARIAH------then the only democratic thing to do is impose it-------and disenfranchise all non muslims This principle was BREACHED in SUDAN in which a partition of that country would not have passed a GENERAL VOTE ------thus georgie supports the continued murder of men, rape of women and enslavment of children under the PRINCIPLES OF DEMOCRACY

 

[MHunterB]

The Partition Plan was devised by the UN and presented to both groups.

The Zionists accepted their 'half a loaf': the Pals rejected theirs.

The Pals rejected theirs *on the 'advice' (spelled 'ORDERS') of their Arab League brethren in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and elsewhere - who came together to attack the Zionists even as they declared the State of Israel.

And yes, the Zionists and the Pals fought over territory within the Mandate - and yes, some 'indigenous residents' of each group were evicted, some with no compensation. ON BOTH SIDES.

It was the Jordanians who committed the ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem - which is HOW EJ got to be 'Arab', because the Jewish Arabs who'd lived there for centuries were forced out at gunpoint by the Jordanian Army.

How can anyone blame 'the Zionists' for the choices which the Pals made???? And since a lot of those choices were based on what the Arab League dictated - how can anyone NOT consider the AL boycott and ethnic cleansing (from back in '47!!!) to be relevant????

 

[docmauser1]

Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years

Ah, the nutcase long as dead, but still goes on stinking, like soviet Pravda, attracting flies.

 

[irosie91]

It was the Jordanians who committed the ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem - which is HOW EJ got to be 'Arab', because the Jewish Arabs who'd lived there for centuries were forced out at gunpoint by the Jordanian Army.


I am sorry not exactly----the jewish population of east jerusalem was under STARVATION SIEGE for ---I believe about a year------the gunpoint stuff was actually killing-----the survivors were RESCUED An interesting factoid of islamic history------is that many of the genocides were enacted by STARVATION SIEGE------populations were sequestered----either on islands or ------some wilderness places-------and starved to death In fact in recent history that is how the Nigerian muslims got rid of a few million christians (biafrans)

How can anyone blame 'the Zionists' for the choices which the Pals made???? And since a lot of those choices were based on what the Arab League dictated - how can anyone NOT consider the AL boycott and ethnic cleansing (from back in '47!!!) to be relevant????[/QUOTE]

 

[docmauser1]

The simple fact that you don't even make an attempt at refuting the content of Shahak's allegations about the closed nature of Jewish societies speaks volumes about your motives and knowledge base.

Drivel is drivel is drivel, there's nothing to "refute", of course.

 

[irosie91]

The "closed nature" of jewish societies? I wonder what SHAHAK said about "the closed nature of jewish societies" "closed" in what way? Societies that are involved in their own traditions -----all tend to be a bit "closed" he is probably referring to the very religious----his pet hatred as a VERY COMMUNISTIC COMMUNIST

 

[georgephillip]

"Israel Shahak was a resident of the Warsaw Ghetto and a survivor of Bergen-Belsen. He arrived in Palestine in 1945 and lived there until his death in 2001. He was an outspoken critic of the state of Israel and a human rights activist. He was also the author of the highly acclaimed Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel (Pluto Press 1999) and Open Secrets: Israeli Nuclear and Foreign Policies(Pluto Press 1997)."

Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years

You have a real problem criticizing other fundamentalists, don't you?
Has the Jewish State ever taken an action you disagree with?
What's the name of that Neo-Nazi publishing house in France?
Do you mean this Werner Cohn?
Maybe you can link to some of his rebuttals to Israel Shahak.

The simple fact that you don't even make an attempt at refuting the content of Shahak's allegations about the closed nature of Jewish societies speaks volumes about your motives and knowledge base.

WERNER COHN on SHAHAK:

Shahak: The Jews are Bad

What are Cohn's thoughts on killing "good" civilians?

"When our forces come across civilians during a war or in hot pursuit or in a raid, so long as there is no certainty that those civilians are incapable of harming our forces, then according to the Halakhah they may and even should be killed ... Under no circumstances should an Arab be trusted, even if he makes an impression of being civilized ... In war, when our forces storm the enemy, they are allowed and even enjoined by the Halakhah to kill even good civilians, that is, civilians who are ostensibly good."

What about you, ever kill any good civilians?

Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years

 

[irosie91]

Shahak is a boring topic He engaged in a kind of TORTURED SOPHISTRY in order to knock jewish religion. His interpretations of various lines in the talmud were so SOPHIST TO HIS PURPOSES--------that he was simply damned annoying For the record ---his style was very much in vogue in a significant segment of israeli society----to wit RADICAL COMMUNISTS They tried to OUT DO each other -----somehow they seem to have died away I do not think that there is a hard core marxist communist party in Israel anymore-----when I was a kid there were at least two

 

[georgephillip]

The "closed nature" of jewish societies? I wonder what SHAHAK said about "the closed nature of jewish societies" "closed" in what way? Societies that are involved in their own traditions -----all tend to be a bit "closed" he is probably referring to the very religious----his pet hatred as a VERY COMMUNISTIC COMMUNIST

"After the 1982 Lebanon War he also wrote of Israeli abuses in Lebanon.[6] Shahak promoted the theory that Israel's religious interpretation of Jewish history led it to disregard Arab human rights.[10]

"He also began to argue that Zionism was a 'regime based on structural discrimination and racism.'

"Reviewer Sheldon Richman explains that for Shahak, Zionism was both a reflection of, and capitulation to, European antisemitism, 'since it, like the anti-Semites, holds that Jews are everywhere aliens who would best be isolated from the rest of the world.'"

Israel Shahak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Do you have any proof Shahak was a communist?

 

[dilloduck]

Shahak is a boring topic He engaged in a kind of TORTURED SOPHISTRY in order to knock jewish religion. His interpretations of various lines in the talmud were so SOPHIST TO HIS PURPOSES--------that he was simply damned annoying For the record ---his style was very much in vogue in a significant segment of israeli society----to wit RADICAL COMMUNISTS They tried to OUT DO each other -----somehow they seem to have died away I do not think that there is a hard core marxist communist party in Israel anymore-----when I was a kid there were at least two

Every attempt to knock the jews is tortured sophistry--just ask one.

 

[georgephillip]

The Partition Plan was devised by the UN and presented to both groups.

The Zionists accepted their 'half a loaf': the Pals rejected theirs.

The Pals rejected theirs *on the 'advice' (spelled 'ORDERS') of their Arab League brethren in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and elsewhere - who came together to attack the Zionists even as they declared the State of Israel.

And yes, the Zionists and the Pals fought over territory within the Mandate - and yes, some 'indigenous residents' of each group were evicted, some with no compensation. ON BOTH SIDES.

It was the Jordanians who committed the ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem - which is HOW EJ got to be 'Arab', because the Jewish Arabs who'd lived there for centuries were forced out at gunpoint by the Jordanian Army.

How can anyone blame 'the Zionists' for the choices which the Pals made???? And since a lot of those choices were based on what the Arab League dictated - how can anyone NOT consider the AL boycott and ethnic cleansing (from back in '47!!!) to be relevant????

The Zionists owned 16% of the land of Mandate Palestine, yet they received 55% in the partition plan.
Jews composed one-third of Mandate Palestine's population.
700,000 Arabs were evicted and their homes, businesses, and bank accounts were annexed by Jews.
How many Jews in Mandate Palestine shared the same fate?

 

[irosie91]

The Partition Plan was devised by the UN and presented to both groups.

The Zionists accepted their 'half a loaf': the Pals rejected theirs.

The Pals rejected theirs *on the 'advice' (spelled 'ORDERS') of their Arab League brethren in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and elsewhere - who came together to attack the Zionists even as they declared the State of Israel.

And yes, the Zionists and the Pals fought over territory within the Mandate - and yes, some 'indigenous residents' of each group were evicted, some with no compensation. ON BOTH SIDES.

It was the Jordanians who committed the ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem - which is HOW EJ got to be 'Arab', because the Jewish Arabs who'd lived there for centuries were forced out at gunpoint by the Jordanian Army.



How can anyone blame 'the Zionists' for the choices which the Pals made???? And since a lot of those choices were based on what the Arab League dictated - how can anyone NOT consider the AL boycott and ethnic cleansing (from back in '47!!!) to be relevant????

The Zionists owned 16% of the land of Mandate Palestine, yet they received 55% in the partition plan.


Jews composed one-third of Mandate Palestine's population.
700,000 Arabs were evicted and their homes, businesses, and bank accounts were annexed by Jews.
How many Jews in Mandate Palestine shared the same fate?

What percentage of mandate palestine land did ARABS OWN???? bank accounts? what percentage of mandate arabs HAD BANK ACCOUNTS?----I got news for you---they did not even have floors-----most of those who LEFT lived in mud floored huts "businesses" what businesses? They packed up the donkey with whatever valuables they had and walked off I know eyewitnesses. Most were hut dwellers-----day laborers----the people with real houses generally STAYED

as to jews----lots of jews actually LOST LAND---and REAL houses-------East Jerusalem ---Hebron and then----there were the jews trapped in the oppression of shariah cesspits in neighboring countries

for real figures----you should seek real figures I am intrigued regarding the "BANK ACCOUNTS' that should be easy HOW MUCH MONEY WAS "CONFISCATED"

In the shariah cesspit some of my relatives fled-----the people had to pay the arabs just to walk thru a village-----they paid virtually every step of the way with whatever they had of value

 

[ForeverYoung436]

The Partition Plan was devised by the UN and presented to both groups.

The Zionists accepted their 'half a loaf': the Pals rejected theirs.

The Pals rejected theirs *on the 'advice' (spelled 'ORDERS') of their Arab League brethren in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and elsewhere - who came together to attack the Zionists even as they declared the State of Israel.

And yes, the Zionists and the Pals fought over territory within the Mandate - and yes, some 'indigenous residents' of each group were evicted, some with no compensation. ON BOTH SIDES.

It was the Jordanians who committed the ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem - which is HOW EJ got to be 'Arab', because the Jewish Arabs who'd lived there for centuries were forced out at gunpoint by the Jordanian Army.

How can anyone blame 'the Zionists' for the choices which the Pals made???? And since a lot of those choices were based on what the Arab League dictated - how can anyone NOT consider the AL boycott and ethnic cleansing (from back in '47!!!) to be relevant????

The Zionists owned 16% of the land of Mandate Palestine, yet they received 55% in the partition plan.
Jews composed one-third of Mandate Palestine's population.
700,000 Arabs were evicted and their homes, businesses, and bank accounts were annexed by Jews.
How many Jews in Mandate Palestine shared the same fate?

About an equal number of Jews were evicted from Arab countries. My good friend's family were evicted from Egypt.
Where did you get the 16% ownership figure? I had heard that the Jewish National Fund bought up alot more land than that.
As far as the population, it was almost 50/50. Life is not always fair, as I'm sure we've all learned from our personal lives. Don't forget the Arab nation, as a whole, has ALOT of land, and natural resources to boot.

 

[Hossfly]

"Israel Shahak was a resident of the Warsaw Ghetto and a survivor of Bergen-Belsen. He arrived in Palestine in 1945 and lived there until his death in 2001. He was an outspoken critic of the state of Israel and a human rights activist. He was also the author of the highly acclaimed Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel (Pluto Press 1999) and Open Secrets: Israeli Nuclear and Foreign Policies(Pluto Press 1997)."

Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years

You have a real problem criticizing other fundamentalists, don't you?
Has the Jewish State ever taken an action you disagree with?
What's the name of that Neo-Nazi publishing house in France?
Do you mean this Werner Cohn?
Maybe you can link to some of his rebuttals to Israel Shahak.

The simple fact that you don't even make an attempt at refuting the content of Shahak's allegations about the closed nature of Jewish societies speaks volumes about your motives and knowledge base.

WERNER COHN on SHAHAK:

Shahak: The Jews are Bad

What are Cohn's thoughts on killing "good" civilians?

"When our forces come across civilians during a war or in hot pursuit or in a raid, so long as there is no certainty that those civilians are incapable of harming our forces, then according to the Halakhah they may and even should be killed ... Under no circumstances should an Arab be trusted, even if he makes an impression of being civilized ... In war, when our forces storm the enemy, they are allowed and even enjoined by the Halakhah to kill even good civilians, that is, civilians who are ostensibly good."

What about you, ever kill any good civilians?

Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years

Why Georgie Boy, it sounds just like what the Muslims are doing when it comes down to the non believers and even other Muslims. Apparently you have no problem with that up since you would never bring up something like this. All your focus is on the Jews and not at all what your friends (or maybe even your fellow Muslims for all we know) are doing and have done in the past.
Libyan Imam After Ambassador Attack: ‘Destroy the Rancorous Christians’ and Detonate Your Wrath | Video | TheBlaze.com

 

[Hossfly]

The Partition Plan was devised by the UN and presented to both groups.

The Zionists accepted their 'half a loaf': the Pals rejected theirs.

The Pals rejected theirs *on the 'advice' (spelled 'ORDERS') of their Arab League brethren in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and elsewhere - who came together to attack the Zionists even as they declared the State of Israel.

And yes, the Zionists and the Pals fought over territory within the Mandate - and yes, some 'indigenous residents' of each group were evicted, some with no compensation. ON BOTH SIDES.

It was the Jordanians who committed the ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem - which is HOW EJ got to be 'Arab', because the Jewish Arabs who'd lived there for centuries were forced out at gunpoint by the Jordanian Army.

How can anyone blame 'the Zionists' for the choices which the Pals made???? And since a lot of those choices were based on what the Arab League dictated - how can anyone NOT consider the AL boycott and ethnic cleansing (from back in '47!!!) to be relevant????

The Zionists owned 16% of the land of Mandate Palestine, yet they received 55% in the partition plan.
Jews composed one-third of Mandate Palestine's population.
700,000 Arabs were evicted and their homes, businesses, and bank accounts were annexed by Jews.
How many Jews in Mandate Palestine shared the same fate?

Here we go again with the same stuff, and Georgie still doesn't bring up that the Hashemites from the Saudi Peninsula were given 78% of the Palestine Mandate. I guess because the Hashemites are Muslims, Georgie doesn't care that they are rulers over the vast "Palestinian" population there. Most of the land in the Palestine Mandate was owned by rich Turks; and after World War I, the land then belonged to the English. I know that sticks in Georgie's craw. Did you have relatives there, Georgie, that told you that they lost everything?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

The Partition Plan was devised by the UN and presented to both groups.

The Zionists accepted their 'half a loaf': the Pals rejected theirs.

The Pals rejected theirs *on the 'advice' (spelled 'ORDERS') of their Arab League brethren in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and elsewhere - who came together to attack the Zionists even as they declared the State of Israel.

And yes, the Zionists and the Pals fought over territory within the Mandate - and yes, some 'indigenous residents' of each group were evicted, some with no compensation. ON BOTH SIDES.

It was the Jordanians who committed the ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem - which is HOW EJ got to be 'Arab', because the Jewish Arabs who'd lived there for centuries were forced out at gunpoint by the Jordanian Army.

How can anyone blame 'the Zionists' for the choices which the Pals made???? And since a lot of those choices were based on what the Arab League dictated - how can anyone NOT consider the AL boycott and ethnic cleansing (from back in '47!!!) to be relevant????

The Zionists owned 16% of the land of Mandate Palestine, yet they received 55% in the partition plan.
Jews composed one-third of Mandate Palestine's population.
700,000 Arabs were evicted and their homes, businesses, and bank accounts were annexed by Jews.
How many Jews in Mandate Palestine shared the same fate?

Here we go again with the same stuff, and Georgie still doesn't bring up that the Hashemites from the Saudi Peninsula were given 78% of the Palestine Mandate. I guess because the Hashemites are Muslims, Georgie doesn't care that they are rulers over the vast "Palestinian" population there. Most of the land in the Palestine Mandate was owned by rich Turks; and after World War I, the land then belonged to the English. I know that sticks in Georgie's craw. Did you have relatives there, Georgie, that told you that they lost everything?

Oh yeah, I had forgotten Transjordan which was lopped off by the Brits. Is the law that a Jew can't be a citizen of Jordan still in effect?

 

[irosie91]

Hoss in the propaganda that GEORGIE QUOTES----the figures of ownership be "ARABS" are determined by -------subtracting the percentage of land oned by jews from 100% do not even try to explain to georgie why that method does not make sense. He thinks "arabs owned" the negev deserrt and the dead sea

 

[Hossfly]

Hoss in the propaganda that GEORGIE QUOTES----the figures of ownership be "ARABS" are determined by -------subtracting the percentage of land oned by jews from 100% do not even try to explain to georgie why that method does not make sense. He thinks "arabs owned" the negev deserrt and the dead sea

But the Ayrabs invented algebra and they can make sugar out of shit!

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Hoss in the propaganda that GEORGIE QUOTES----the figures of ownership be "ARABS" are determined by -------subtracting the percentage of land oned by jews from 100% do not even try to explain to georgie why that method does not make sense. He thinks "arabs owned" the negev deserrt and the dead sea

But the Ayrabs invented algebra and they can make sugar out of shit!

Like a comedian said, "The one thing the Arabs invented was algebra, and thanks alot for that one!"
So my first year in high-school was miserable thanks to them?

 

[pbel]

In September of 1982, between 700 and 3500 Lebanese and Palestinian civilians were massacred in the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila near Beirut, Lebanon. The IDF had surrounded and controlled access to both camps, and late in the afternoon of Friday, 16th the IDF allowed the first of 1500 Phalangist militiamen to enter the camps.

Hitler couldn't have planned the consequences any better:

"Each act was barbarous enough on its own to warrant fear and loathing.

"It was human savagery at its worst and Dr Ang Swee Chai was an eye witness as she worked with the Palestinian Red Crescent Society on the dying and the wounded amongst the dead.

"What she saw was so unimaginable that the atrocities committed need to be separated from each other to even begin comprehending the viciousness of the crimes. [1]

"People Tortured. Blackened bodies smelling of roasted flesh from the power shocks that had convulsed their bodies before their hearts gave out – the electric wires still tied around their lifeless limbs

"People with gouged out eye sockets. Faces unrecognisable with the gaping holes that had plunged them into darkness before their lives were thankfully ended.

"Women raped. Not once – but two, three, four times – horribly violated, their legs shamelessly ripped apart with not even the cover of clothing to preserve their dignity at the moment of death.

"Children dynamited alive. So many body parts ripped from their tiny torsos, so hard to know to whom they belonged – just mounds of bloodied limbs amongst the tousled heads of children in pools of blood.

"Families executed. Blood, blood and more blood sprayed on the walls of homes where whole families had been axed to death in a frenzy or lined up for a more orderly execution."

The Massacre at Sabra and Shatila, Thirty Years Later » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Sharon is one of those special killers who enjoyed their trade to the fullest....he would make Hitler blush...I believe that the state of the living dead is punishment by our maker for his brutal life of senseless killing.