Scott Brown: Elizabeth Warren Should Do DNA Test To Prove Her Native American Heritage (Libs Livid)

[Pogo]

All she has to do to put this to rest is take a simple DNA test. The best in the business that I know of that specialize in First Nations and Metis for status cards or tribal enrollment is Accu Metrics.

Pffft. Put *WHAT* to rest? Some wankers on a message board floating myths they can't support?

Not to mention, the idea that you can "just do a DNA test" and stick a pin on the racial map is kind of ludicrous.

I took one of those DNA tests once. It pinned me to Eastern Europe, around Serbia.
There is no one in my ancestry from anywhere near there. Not a single one.

Hey when you are Liz Warren and you are the "First Person of Color" at Harvard Law School you got some 'splaining to do.

And obviously you aren't aware of this company. They are government approved. Both US and Canada. Their results will qualify you for a status card (not sure if you know what that is) and for tribal enrollment. Pretty big deal. They're out of Toronto.

Check it out..


Viaguard is committed to providing confidential, affordable, accessible, clinically precise, medical and forensic services to the public and professionals.

Viaguard is U.S. and Canadian accredited for informational, legal and immigration DNA relationship testing

"Native and First Nations DNA Testing
The results of this scientific test can be used to receive a status card or tribal enrollment

As an industry leader in parentage (paternity and maternity testing), Family relationship and ancestral heritage testing, Viaguard Accu-metrics offers a variety of DNA tests for First Nation, Métis and Native Americans to help define if you belong to a particular ethno-geographical group.

The DNA results can be used in enrollment, disenrollment, claiming social benefits, or simply for a peace of mind. We understand the impact that this testing service has on the First Nation and Native American community and we try to use our expertise for the community's overall interests.

Native American linkage is based on a sample comparison to a proven member of the group, which identifies specific tribal linkage.
According to Office of Management and Budget, "American Indian or Alaska Native" refers to a person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment. There are 562 recognized tribes in the U.S.A., plus at least 50 others in Canada, divided into First Nation, Inuit, and Metis. Viaguard Accu-metrics can determine if you belong to one of these groups. We can also determine if you belong to the 56 Native tribes from Mexico."

Accu-Metrics - First Nation, Métis and Native American DNA confirmation services

Interesting.
I have no use for this service as I have no evidence of NA ancestry. But back to my original question --- why the hell does Warren "NEED" to avail herself of it? So that a gaggle of wags on an internet message board who are already notorious for not admitting when they're wrong can just run away?

Doesn't make any sense.

 

[Pogo]

The Atlantic ran an article in 2012 that certain Native American tribes were asking for proof.

Link it then. And explain why any Native American tribe ---- let alone "several" ---- would be "asking for proof". What do they care?

Hm?

She made a claim she can't back it up. The 1866 census says that The claimed Native American great great grandmother is white. Not my problem that she lied.

Not a fact either. If it was you could demonstrate it, and you can't.
And again, I don't know about the GGGrandmother but the specific ancestor cited before was a male, named Harry Reed, one of a set of brothers who married sisters. Far as I know Grandmothers, no matter how great they are, are not male.

Her claim, she needs to back it up. Not me, you fail!

Warren made no claim here, and certainly doesn't "NEED" to back up jack shit. YOU do. "She lied" is an assertion. And you have nothing behind it but air.

From a page posted the last time you mythologists went "yammer yammer yammer" in denial of what was right in plain sight:

First of all, this is not a "grandmother"

Harry Reed
​

=> As a child growing up in rural Arizona, Ina Mapes remembers her mother as a highly discreet woman who rarely expressed her personal feelings except when it came to one particularly incendiary topic: Did Mapes’s father, a raven-haired lawyer, have Native American roots, or did he not? Mapes’s grandmother maintained that he had one-quarter tribal blood. But her mother wanted to hear nothing of it.

“My mother did not approve of Indians, and she insisted that my father was not an Indian,” said Mapes, 77, of Catalina, Ariz. “In those days, it was not a plus to be an Indian, not at all. She said that Granny, my father’s mother, was just making it up and she did not believe it.”

Mapes, a mother of four who volunteers in a clothing bank, is a second cousin to US Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren. The two women, who have never met, share more DNA than most second cousins: Not only were their grandmothers sisters, their grandfathers were brothers. Those brothers — a team of carpenters named Harry and Everett Reed who plied their trade in the Indian Territory that would become the state of Oklahoma — are believed by some family members to have roots in the Delaware tribe. Mapes, who said she was unaware of her cousin’s candidacy until contacted by a reporter, said she does not doubt her heritage.

“I think you are what you are,” said Mapes. “And part of us is Indian.”

... Born and raised in Arizona, Ina Mapes visited her grandmother and other Reed relatives in Okmulgee, Okla., every summer. Her grandmother, by then widowed, often talked about her son’s Indian blood, which she said he inherited from his father, Everett Reed. While Laura Reed was proud of her son’s heritage, Mapes said, her own mother was distinctly not. Both of the older women would independently harangue young Ina on the topic, in part of their ongoing dispute.

... other descendants of Hannie and Laura — those with a direct connection to the Reed brothers — say they were told stories about their Cherokee and Delaware blood similar to those heard by Warren and her brother. Like their cousins, they never questioned the truth of what they were told and apparently made no attempt to document their roots.​

.... Warren’s family, including cousin Mapes, have no documentation of Native American affiliation, nor is there evidence that they are listed on any official tribal roll. While Senator Scott Brown, Warren’s opponent, has used this to question her truthfulness, many who assert such heritage are unable to document it, according to several scholars. During the late 1800s and early 1900s, many Native Americans did not join tribal rolls for a host of complex reasons, including residency requirements, fear of discrimination, and opposition to land allotment policies.

... David Herring of Norman, Okla., one of Warren’s three brothers, said in an interview that even when he was a child his relatives were reluctant to talk about the family’s Native American heritage because “it was not popular in my family.” Only when he begged his grandparents, said Herring, did they finally explain to him: “Your grandfather is part Delaware, a little bitty bit, way back, and your grandmother is part Cherokee. It was not the most popular thing to do in Oklahoma. [Indians] were degraded, looked down on.”

Both the Reeds and the Crawfords are identified as “white” on federal Census forms in the early 20th century that rely upon self-identification. While that may have been a simple statement of fact, they may also have been trying to obscure their ethnicity. At the time, the federal government was attempting to break up reservations by granting land allotments to individual Native Americans, pressing them to assimilate into white society and leave their tribal ways behind. The goal, as one officer bluntly put it, was to “kill the Indian and save the man.” Those who could pass for white — or convince the census taker that they were — sometimes did.

“If someone was not white, they were a little bit less of a citizen,” said Matt Reed, the curator of the American Indian Collections at the Oklahoma Historical Society in Oklahoma City, whose mother was a Pawnee Indian. “If you had darker skin, you were a lesser human. So, if your skin was light enough to pass as not being Indian, then you just passed as white and your life was a lot better off. A lot more people did that than you might think.” <=

--- Boston.com​

 

[Papageorgio]

The Atlantic ran an article in 2012 that certain Native American tribes were asking for proof.

Link it then. And explain why any Native American tribe ---- let alone "several" ---- would be "asking for proof". What do they care?

Hm?

She made a claim she can't back it up. The 1866 census says that The claimed Native American great great grandmother is white. Not my problem that she lied.

Not a fact either. If it was you could demonstrate it, and you can't.
And again, I don't know about the GGGrandmother but the specific ancestor cited before was a male, named Harry Reed, one of a set of brothers who married sisters. Far as I know Grandmothers, no matter how great they are, are not male.

Her claim, she needs to back it up. Not me, you fail!

Warren made no claim here, and certainly doesn't "NEED" to back up jack shit. YOU do. "She lied" is an assertion. And you have nothing behind it but air.

Look it up, lazy, it's in the Atlantic in 2012. I never made the claim Warren was a Native American, she did, let her back it up. In the Harvard registry she claimed she was a Native American, even she doesn't deny that.



Is Elizabeth Warren Native American or What?

There posted it for you, do you think you can go to the link and read it or do we need to do that for you to.

 

[tinydancer]

"Ms. Warren has acknowledged listing herself as a minority in a national law-school faculty directory between 1986 and 1995. On the campaign trail, she explained that she wanted to meet others with her Native American background. But she has declined to release records that would show how she listed herself to the University of Pennsylvania, where she taught from 1987 to 1995, or at Harvard, where she was hired in 1995."

Law Review Called Senate Candidate Warren 'Woman of Color'

 

[Pogo]

The Atlantic ran an article in 2012 that certain Native American tribes were asking for proof.

Link it then. And explain why any Native American tribe ---- let alone "several" ---- would be "asking for proof". What do they care?

Hm?

She made a claim she can't back it up. The 1866 census says that The claimed Native American great great grandmother is white. Not my problem that she lied.

Not a fact either. If it was you could demonstrate it, and you can't.
And again, I don't know about the GGGrandmother but the specific ancestor cited before was a male, named Harry Reed, one of a set of brothers who married sisters. Far as I know Grandmothers, no matter how great they are, are not male.

Her claim, she needs to back it up. Not me, you fail!

Warren made no claim here, and certainly doesn't "NEED" to back up jack shit. YOU do. "She lied" is an assertion. And you have nothing behind it but air.

Look it up, lazy, it's in the Atlantic in 2012. I never made the claim Warren was a Native American, she did, let her back it up. In the Harvard registry she claimed she was a Native American, even she doesn't deny that.



Is Elizabeth Warren Native American or What?

There posted it for you, do you think you can go to the link and read it or do we need to do that for you to.

What the friggety fuck dood --- you can't just waltz around claiming something exists, you *NEED* to prove it does. Don't you get it?

I look forward to this. The first line, literally the subheading, reads:

"The Democratic Senate candidate can't back up family lore that she is part Indian -- but neither is there any evidence that she benefited professionally from these stories."







Reading on ---- the article centers on whether Warren would be eligible for membership in Cherokee Nation. There's just one shortcoming with that premise ----- Warren isn't applying for membership in Cherokee Nation. Never did. She simply said it was in her ancestry. That's in no way the same thing -- see the bold below.

Moreover, quoting from the same article:

=> None of this to say that a Cherokee citizen couldn't look like Warren. Though it confounds many people's expectations, the Cherokee Nation considers being Cherokee as much an ethnicity as anything racial, and given the tribe's centuries-long history of intermarriage there are many Cherokee citizens today who do not look stereotypically Native American. As well, "there are a lot of folks who are legitimately Cherokee who are not eligible for citizenship," said Krehbiel-Burton, because, for example, their ancestors lived in distant states or territories when the rolls were drawn up, or because they are direct descendants of people left off the rolls for other reasons. <=​

Plus, it repeats, copiously, the earlier linked evidence that there was specifically no preferential treatment either offered to, or sought by Warren, at Harvard as well as at Rutgers and the University of Texas. Matter of fact this article makes that point more strongly than the PolitiFact link did.

You just dug yourself deeper.

Oh and there's more corroboration of the family stories in my last link that I didn't even quote...

 

[tinydancer]

"Responding to students who were unhappy with the level of diversity on the faculty at Harvard Law School in the fall of 1996, Mr. Chmura listed a number of minorities and included Ms. Warren.

The Crimson wrote: "Although the conventional wisdom among students and faculty is that the Law School faculty includes no minority women, Chmura said Professor of Law Elizabeth Warren is Native American."

The University of Pennsylvania cited Ms. Warren in a 2005 "Minority Equity Report" that listed past winners of the Lindback Award for teaching excellence. A note at the top of the list says that the names of minorities are in italics and boldface. Ms. Warren, who won the award in 1994, was designated as just one of eight minority recipients between 1991 and 2004."

Law Review Called Senate Candidate Warren 'Woman of Color'

 

[Pogo]

"Responding to students who were unhappy with the level of diversity on the faculty at Harvard Law School in the fall of 1996, Mr. Chmura listed a number of minorities and included Ms. Warren.

The Crimson wrote: "Although the conventional wisdom among students and faculty is that the Law School faculty includes no minority women, Chmura said Professor of Law Elizabeth Warren is Native American."

The University of Pennsylvania cited Ms. Warren in a 2005 "Minority Equity Report" that listed past winners of the Lindback Award for teaching excellence. A note at the top of the list says that the names of minorities are in italics and boldface. Ms. Warren, who won the award in 1994, was designated as just one of eight minority recipients between 1991 and 2004."

Law Review Called Senate Candidate Warren 'Woman of Color'

Don't think so. Requires a subscription.

To the contrary -- from Papageorgio's link above, quoting:

=> A huge tell -- beyond the flat denials of two of the men who brought her to the school -- is that Warren's ancestry was not touted in 1995 in the Harvard Crimson as the Law School's first Native American hire, despite the ethnic studies movement's gathering force on the college's campus at the time and continued controversy over the lack of diversity at the law school (as highlighted at a protest involving Prof. Derrick Bell and law school student Barack Obama in 1991). The Crimson article on Warren was titled simply, "Woman Tenured at Law School."

"Liz Warren is a spectacular addition to our faculty," Law School Dean Robert Clark told the Crimson. "She is a leading scholar in the fields of bankruptcy and commercial law, and she is one of the rare legal academics to have devoted herself to a large-scale empirical research project of great relevance to legal policy making."

Compare that to the Crimson editorial that greeted Lani Guinier just three years later, which heralded her as "the first female African-American professor in the 181-year history of HLS." While this article also repeated the claim about Warren's ethnicity -- "Harvard Law School currently has only one tenured minority woman, Gottlieb Professor of Law Elizabeth Warren, who is Native American," the '98 piece said -- that information had so little penetrated the consciousness of legal circles that Guinier was quoted in the very same article saying, "Though I am the first woman of color to join the tenured faculty, I know that I will not be the last, and this is important to me." Dean Clark said he felt hiring her would "attract other top scholars of diverse backgrounds." He made no similar statement upon Warren's hire. <=​

 

[Rustic]

"Responding to students who were unhappy with the level of diversity on the faculty at Harvard Law School in the fall of 1996, Mr. Chmura listed a number of minorities and included Ms. Warren.

The Crimson wrote: "Although the conventional wisdom among students and faculty is that the Law School faculty includes no minority women, Chmura said Professor of Law Elizabeth Warren is Native American."

The University of Pennsylvania cited Ms. Warren in a 2005 "Minority Equity Report" that listed past winners of the Lindback Award for teaching excellence. A note at the top of the list says that the names of minorities are in italics and boldface. Ms. Warren, who won the award in 1994, was designated as just one of eight minority recipients between 1991 and 2004."

Law Review Called Senate Candidate Warren 'Woman of Color'

Don't think so. Requires a subscription.

 

[Papageorgio]

The Atlantic ran an article in 2012 that certain Native American tribes were asking for proof.

Link it then. And explain why any Native American tribe ---- let alone "several" ---- would be "asking for proof". What do they care?

Hm?

She made a claim she can't back it up. The 1866 census says that The claimed Native American great great grandmother is white. Not my problem that she lied.

Not a fact either. If it was you could demonstrate it, and you can't.
And again, I don't know about the GGGrandmother but the specific ancestor cited before was a male, named Harry Reed, one of a set of brothers who married sisters. Far as I know Grandmothers, no matter how great they are, are not male.

Her claim, she needs to back it up. Not me, you fail!

Warren made no claim here, and certainly doesn't "NEED" to back up jack shit. YOU do. "She lied" is an assertion. And you have nothing behind it but air.

Look it up, lazy, it's in the Atlantic in 2012. I never made the claim Warren was a Native American, she did, let her back it up. In the Harvard registry she claimed she was a Native American, even she doesn't deny that.



Is Elizabeth Warren Native American or What?

There posted it for you, do you think you can go to the link and read it or do we need to do that for you to.

What the friggety fuck dood --- you can't just waltz around claiming something exists, you *NEED* to prove it does. Don't you get it?

I look forward to this. The first line, literally the subheading, reads:

"The Democratic Senate candidate can't back up family lore that she is part Indian -- but neither is there any evidence that she benefited professionally from these stories."







Reading on ---- the article centers on whether Warren would be eligible for membership in Cherokee Nation. There's just one shortcoming with that premise ----- Warren isn't applying for membership in Cherokee Nation. Never did. She simply said it was in her ancestry. That's in no way the same thing -- see the bold below.

Moreover, quoting from the same article:

=> None of this to say that a Cherokee citizen couldn't look like Warren. Though it confounds many people's expectations, the Cherokee Nation considers being Cherokee as much an ethnicity as anything racial, and given the tribe's centuries-long history of intermarriage there are many Cherokee citizens today who do not look stereotypically Native American. As well, "there are a lot of folks who are legitimately Cherokee who are not eligible for citizenship," said Krehbiel-Burton, because, for example, their ancestors lived in distant states or territories when the rolls were drawn up, or because they are direct descendants of people left off the rolls for other reasons. <=​

Plus, it repeats, copiously, the earlier linked evidence that there was specifically no preferential treatment either offered to, or sought by Warren, at Harvard as well as at Rutgers and the University of Texas. Matter of fact this article makes that point more strongly than the PolitiFact link did.

You just dug yourself deeper.

Oh and there's more corroboration of the family stories in my last link that I didn't even quote...

Shows the tribes wanting proof and it shows it was her great great grandmother.

I dug nothing, you cherry pick what you want and don't want to believe. My opinion is she lied and you can believe what you want.

 

[Rustic]

 

[Rustic]

 

[Pogo]

The Atlantic ran an article in 2012 that certain Native American tribes were asking for proof.

Link it then. And explain why any Native American tribe ---- let alone "several" ---- would be "asking for proof". What do they care?

Hm?

She made a claim she can't back it up. The 1866 census says that The claimed Native American great great grandmother is white. Not my problem that she lied.

Not a fact either. If it was you could demonstrate it, and you can't.
And again, I don't know about the GGGrandmother but the specific ancestor cited before was a male, named Harry Reed, one of a set of brothers who married sisters. Far as I know Grandmothers, no matter how great they are, are not male.

Her claim, she needs to back it up. Not me, you fail!

Warren made no claim here, and certainly doesn't "NEED" to back up jack shit. YOU do. "She lied" is an assertion. And you have nothing behind it but air.

Look it up, lazy, it's in the Atlantic in 2012. I never made the claim Warren was a Native American, she did, let her back it up. In the Harvard registry she claimed she was a Native American, even she doesn't deny that.



Is Elizabeth Warren Native American or What?

There posted it for you, do you think you can go to the link and read it or do we need to do that for you to.

What the friggety fuck dood --- you can't just waltz around claiming something exists, you *NEED* to prove it does. Don't you get it?

I look forward to this. The first line, literally the subheading, reads:

"The Democratic Senate candidate can't back up family lore that she is part Indian -- but neither is there any evidence that she benefited professionally from these stories."







Reading on ---- the article centers on whether Warren would be eligible for membership in Cherokee Nation. There's just one shortcoming with that premise ----- Warren isn't applying for membership in Cherokee Nation. Never did. She simply said it was in her ancestry. That's in no way the same thing -- see the bold below.

Moreover, quoting from the same article:

=> None of this to say that a Cherokee citizen couldn't look like Warren. Though it confounds many people's expectations, the Cherokee Nation considers being Cherokee as much an ethnicity as anything racial, and given the tribe's centuries-long history of intermarriage there are many Cherokee citizens today who do not look stereotypically Native American. As well, "there are a lot of folks who are legitimately Cherokee who are not eligible for citizenship," said Krehbiel-Burton, because, for example, their ancestors lived in distant states or territories when the rolls were drawn up, or because they are direct descendants of people left off the rolls for other reasons. <=​

Plus, it repeats, copiously, the earlier linked evidence that there was specifically no preferential treatment either offered to, or sought by Warren, at Harvard as well as at Rutgers and the University of Texas. Matter of fact this article makes that point more strongly than the PolitiFact link did.

You just dug yourself deeper.

Oh and there's more corroboration of the family stories in my last link that I didn't even quote...

Shows the tribes wanting proof and it shows it was her great great grandmother.

I dug nothing, you cherry pick what you want and don't want to believe. My opinion is she lied and you can believe what you want.

NO. IT. DOES. NOT.
Nowhere in your article is any tribe "wanting proof". Why do you lie when I've got the article right in front of me?

AGAIN ---- why the fuck would "several tribes" --- or any tribes --- "want proof"?? What the fuck do they care?

 

[Rustic]

The Atlantic ran an article in 2012 that certain Native American tribes were asking for proof.

Link it then. And explain why any Native American tribe ---- let alone "several" ---- would be "asking for proof". What do they care?

Hm?

She made a claim she can't back it up. The 1866 census says that The claimed Native American great great grandmother is white. Not my problem that she lied.

Not a fact either. If it was you could demonstrate it, and you can't.
And again, I don't know about the GGGrandmother but the specific ancestor cited before was a male, named Harry Reed, one of a set of brothers who married sisters. Far as I know Grandmothers, no matter how great they are, are not male.

Her claim, she needs to back it up. Not me, you fail!

Warren made no claim here, and certainly doesn't "NEED" to back up jack shit. YOU do. "She lied" is an assertion. And you have nothing behind it but air.

Look it up, lazy, it's in the Atlantic in 2012. I never made the claim Warren was a Native American, she did, let her back it up. In the Harvard registry she claimed she was a Native American, even she doesn't deny that.



Is Elizabeth Warren Native American or What?

There posted it for you, do you think you can go to the link and read it or do we need to do that for you to.

What the friggety fuck dood --- you can't just waltz around claiming something exists, you *NEED* to prove it does. Don't you get it?

I look forward to this. The first line, literally the subheading, reads:

"The Democratic Senate candidate can't back up family lore that she is part Indian -- but neither is there any evidence that she benefited professionally from these stories."







Reading on ---- the article centers on whether Warren would be eligible for membership in Cherokee Nation. There's just one shortcoming with that premise ----- Warren isn't applying for membership in Cherokee Nation. Never did. She simply said it was in her ancestry. That's in no way the same thing -- see the bold below.

Moreover, quoting from the same article:

=> None of this to say that a Cherokee citizen couldn't look like Warren. Though it confounds many people's expectations, the Cherokee Nation considers being Cherokee as much an ethnicity as anything racial, and given the tribe's centuries-long history of intermarriage there are many Cherokee citizens today who do not look stereotypically Native American. As well, "there are a lot of folks who are legitimately Cherokee who are not eligible for citizenship," said Krehbiel-Burton, because, for example, their ancestors lived in distant states or territories when the rolls were drawn up, or because they are direct descendants of people left off the rolls for other reasons. <=​

Plus, it repeats, copiously, the earlier linked evidence that there was specifically no preferential treatment either offered to, or sought by Warren, at Harvard as well as at Rutgers and the University of Texas. Matter of fact this article makes that point more strongly than the PolitiFact link did.

You just dug yourself deeper.

Oh and there's more corroboration of the family stories in my last link that I didn't even quote...

Shows the tribes wanting proof and it shows it was her great great grandmother.

I dug nothing, you cherry pick what you want and don't want to believe. My opinion is she lied and you can believe what you want.

NO. IT. DOES. NOT.
Nowhere in your article is any tribe "wanting proof". Why do you lie when I've got the article right in front of me?

AGAIN ---- why the fuck would "several tribes" --- or any tribes --- "want proof"?? What the fuck do they care?

 

[Pogo]

The Atlantic ran an article in 2012 that certain Native American tribes were asking for proof.

Link it then. And explain why any Native American tribe ---- let alone "several" ---- would be "asking for proof". What do they care?

Hm?

She made a claim she can't back it up. The 1866 census says that The claimed Native American great great grandmother is white. Not my problem that she lied.

Not a fact either. If it was you could demonstrate it, and you can't.
And again, I don't know about the GGGrandmother but the specific ancestor cited before was a male, named Harry Reed, one of a set of brothers who married sisters. Far as I know Grandmothers, no matter how great they are, are not male.

Her claim, she needs to back it up. Not me, you fail!

Warren made no claim here, and certainly doesn't "NEED" to back up jack shit. YOU do. "She lied" is an assertion. And you have nothing behind it but air.

From a page posted the last time you mythologists went "yammer yammer yammer" in denial of what was right in plain sight:

First of all, this is not a "grandmother"

Harry Reed
​

=> As a child growing up in rural Arizona, Ina Mapes remembers her mother as a highly discreet woman who rarely expressed her personal feelings except when it came to one particularly incendiary topic: Did Mapes’s father, a raven-haired lawyer, have Native American roots, or did he not? Mapes’s grandmother maintained that he had one-quarter tribal blood. But her mother wanted to hear nothing of it.

“My mother did not approve of Indians, and she insisted that my father was not an Indian,” said Mapes, 77, of Catalina, Ariz. “In those days, it was not a plus to be an Indian, not at all. She said that Granny, my father’s mother, was just making it up and she did not believe it.”

Mapes, a mother of four who volunteers in a clothing bank, is a second cousin to US Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren. The two women, who have never met, share more DNA than most second cousins: Not only were their grandmothers sisters, their grandfathers were brothers. Those brothers — a team of carpenters named Harry and Everett Reed who plied their trade in the Indian Territory that would become the state of Oklahoma — are believed by some family members to have roots in the Delaware tribe. Mapes, who said she was unaware of her cousin’s candidacy until contacted by a reporter, said she does not doubt her heritage.

“I think you are what you are,” said Mapes. “And part of us is Indian.”

... Born and raised in Arizona, Ina Mapes visited her grandmother and other Reed relatives in Okmulgee, Okla., every summer. Her grandmother, by then widowed, often talked about her son’s Indian blood, which she said he inherited from his father, Everett Reed. While Laura Reed was proud of her son’s heritage, Mapes said, her own mother was distinctly not. Both of the older women would independently harangue young Ina on the topic, in part of their ongoing dispute.

... other descendants of Hannie and Laura — those with a direct connection to the Reed brothers — say they were told stories about their Cherokee and Delaware blood similar to those heard by Warren and her brother. Like their cousins, they never questioned the truth of what they were told and apparently made no attempt to document their roots.​

.... Warren’s family, including cousin Mapes, have no documentation of Native American affiliation, nor is there evidence that they are listed on any official tribal roll. While Senator Scott Brown, Warren’s opponent, has used this to question her truthfulness, many who assert such heritage are unable to document it, according to several scholars. During the late 1800s and early 1900s, many Native Americans did not join tribal rolls for a host of complex reasons, including residency requirements, fear of discrimination, and opposition to land allotment policies.

... David Herring of Norman, Okla., one of Warren’s three brothers, said in an interview that even when he was a child his relatives were reluctant to talk about the family’s Native American heritage because “it was not popular in my family.” Only when he begged his grandparents, said Herring, did they finally explain to him: “Your grandfather is part Delaware, a little bitty bit, way back, and your grandmother is part Cherokee. It was not the most popular thing to do in Oklahoma. [Indians] were degraded, looked down on.”

Both the Reeds and the Crawfords are identified as “white” on federal Census forms in the early 20th century that rely upon self-identification. While that may have been a simple statement of fact, they may also have been trying to obscure their ethnicity. At the time, the federal government was attempting to break up reservations by granting land allotments to individual Native Americans, pressing them to assimilate into white society and leave their tribal ways behind. The goal, as one officer bluntly put it, was to “kill the Indian and save the man.” Those who could pass for white — or convince the census taker that they were — sometimes did.

“If someone was not white, they were a little bit less of a citizen,” said Matt Reed, the curator of the American Indian Collections at the Oklahoma Historical Society in Oklahoma City, whose mother was a Pawnee Indian. “If you had darker skin, you were a lesser human. So, if your skin was light enough to pass as not being Indian, then you just passed as white and your life was a lot better off. A lot more people did that than you might think.” <=

--- Boston.com​

So from this article I count:

• Three siblings;
• Three distant cousins, at least one and possibly all of whom don't know Warren;
• An undetermined number of other cousins;
• And a college friend

--- ALL corroborating the family folklore. Seven-plus people.

You got ............ zero.

 

[Papageorgio]

The Atlantic ran an article in 2012 that certain Native American tribes were asking for proof.

Link it then. And explain why any Native American tribe ---- let alone "several" ---- would be "asking for proof". What do they care?

Hm?

She made a claim she can't back it up. The 1866 census says that The claimed Native American great great grandmother is white. Not my problem that she lied.

Not a fact either. If it was you could demonstrate it, and you can't.
And again, I don't know about the GGGrandmother but the specific ancestor cited before was a male, named Harry Reed, one of a set of brothers who married sisters. Far as I know Grandmothers, no matter how great they are, are not male.

Her claim, she needs to back it up. Not me, you fail!

Warren made no claim here, and certainly doesn't "NEED" to back up jack shit. YOU do. "She lied" is an assertion. And you have nothing behind it but air.

Look it up, lazy, it's in the Atlantic in 2012. I never made the claim Warren was a Native American, she did, let her back it up. In the Harvard registry she claimed she was a Native American, even she doesn't deny that.



Is Elizabeth Warren Native American or What?

There posted it for you, do you think you can go to the link and read it or do we need to do that for you to.

What the friggety fuck dood --- you can't just waltz around claiming something exists, you *NEED* to prove it does. Don't you get it?

I look forward to this. The first line, literally the subheading, reads:

"The Democratic Senate candidate can't back up family lore that she is part Indian -- but neither is there any evidence that she benefited professionally from these stories."







Reading on ---- the article centers on whether Warren would be eligible for membership in Cherokee Nation. There's just one shortcoming with that premise ----- Warren isn't applying for membership in Cherokee Nation. Never did. She simply said it was in her ancestry. That's in no way the same thing -- see the bold below.

Moreover, quoting from the same article:

=> None of this to say that a Cherokee citizen couldn't look like Warren. Though it confounds many people's expectations, the Cherokee Nation considers being Cherokee as much an ethnicity as anything racial, and given the tribe's centuries-long history of intermarriage there are many Cherokee citizens today who do not look stereotypically Native American. As well, "there are a lot of folks who are legitimately Cherokee who are not eligible for citizenship," said Krehbiel-Burton, because, for example, their ancestors lived in distant states or territories when the rolls were drawn up, or because they are direct descendants of people left off the rolls for other reasons. <=​

Plus, it repeats, copiously, the earlier linked evidence that there was specifically no preferential treatment either offered to, or sought by Warren, at Harvard as well as at Rutgers and the University of Texas. Matter of fact this article makes that point more strongly than the PolitiFact link did.

You just dug yourself deeper.

Oh and there's more corroboration of the family stories in my last link that I didn't even quote...

Shows the tribes wanting proof and it shows it was her great great grandmother.

I dug nothing, you cherry pick what you want and don't want to believe. My opinion is she lied and you can believe what you want.

NO. IT. DOES. NOT.
Nowhere in your article is any tribe "wanting proof". Why do you lie when I've got the article right in front of me?

AGAIN ---- why the fuck would "several tribes" --- or any tribes --- "want proof"?? What the fuck do they care?

I don't know why they care but they do, ask them!

Cherokee group challenges Warren

 

[Papageorgio]

The Atlantic ran an article in 2012 that certain Native American tribes were asking for proof.

Link it then. And explain why any Native American tribe ---- let alone "several" ---- would be "asking for proof". What do they care?

Hm?

She made a claim she can't back it up. The 1866 census says that The claimed Native American great great grandmother is white. Not my problem that she lied.

Not a fact either. If it was you could demonstrate it, and you can't.
And again, I don't know about the GGGrandmother but the specific ancestor cited before was a male, named Harry Reed, one of a set of brothers who married sisters. Far as I know Grandmothers, no matter how great they are, are not male.

Her claim, she needs to back it up. Not me, you fail!

Warren made no claim here, and certainly doesn't "NEED" to back up jack shit. YOU do. "She lied" is an assertion. And you have nothing behind it but air.

From a page posted the last time you mythologists went "yammer yammer yammer" in denial of what was right in plain sight:

First of all, this is not a "grandmother"

Harry Reed
​

=> As a child growing up in rural Arizona, Ina Mapes remembers her mother as a highly discreet woman who rarely expressed her personal feelings except when it came to one particularly incendiary topic: Did Mapes’s father, a raven-haired lawyer, have Native American roots, or did he not? Mapes’s grandmother maintained that he had one-quarter tribal blood. But her mother wanted to hear nothing of it.

“My mother did not approve of Indians, and she insisted that my father was not an Indian,” said Mapes, 77, of Catalina, Ariz. “In those days, it was not a plus to be an Indian, not at all. She said that Granny, my father’s mother, was just making it up and she did not believe it.”

Mapes, a mother of four who volunteers in a clothing bank, is a second cousin to US Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren. The two women, who have never met, share more DNA than most second cousins: Not only were their grandmothers sisters, their grandfathers were brothers. Those brothers — a team of carpenters named Harry and Everett Reed who plied their trade in the Indian Territory that would become the state of Oklahoma — are believed by some family members to have roots in the Delaware tribe. Mapes, who said she was unaware of her cousin’s candidacy until contacted by a reporter, said she does not doubt her heritage.

“I think you are what you are,” said Mapes. “And part of us is Indian.”

... Born and raised in Arizona, Ina Mapes visited her grandmother and other Reed relatives in Okmulgee, Okla., every summer. Her grandmother, by then widowed, often talked about her son’s Indian blood, which she said he inherited from his father, Everett Reed. While Laura Reed was proud of her son’s heritage, Mapes said, her own mother was distinctly not. Both of the older women would independently harangue young Ina on the topic, in part of their ongoing dispute.

... other descendants of Hannie and Laura — those with a direct connection to the Reed brothers — say they were told stories about their Cherokee and Delaware blood similar to those heard by Warren and her brother. Like their cousins, they never questioned the truth of what they were told and apparently made no attempt to document their roots.​

.... Warren’s family, including cousin Mapes, have no documentation of Native American affiliation, nor is there evidence that they are listed on any official tribal roll. While Senator Scott Brown, Warren’s opponent, has used this to question her truthfulness, many who assert such heritage are unable to document it, according to several scholars. During the late 1800s and early 1900s, many Native Americans did not join tribal rolls for a host of complex reasons, including residency requirements, fear of discrimination, and opposition to land allotment policies.

... David Herring of Norman, Okla., one of Warren’s three brothers, said in an interview that even when he was a child his relatives were reluctant to talk about the family’s Native American heritage because “it was not popular in my family.” Only when he begged his grandparents, said Herring, did they finally explain to him: “Your grandfather is part Delaware, a little bitty bit, way back, and your grandmother is part Cherokee. It was not the most popular thing to do in Oklahoma. [Indians] were degraded, looked down on.”

Both the Reeds and the Crawfords are identified as “white” on federal Census forms in the early 20th century that rely upon self-identification. While that may have been a simple statement of fact, they may also have been trying to obscure their ethnicity. At the time, the federal government was attempting to break up reservations by granting land allotments to individual Native Americans, pressing them to assimilate into white society and leave their tribal ways behind. The goal, as one officer bluntly put it, was to “kill the Indian and save the man.” Those who could pass for white — or convince the census taker that they were — sometimes did.

“If someone was not white, they were a little bit less of a citizen,” said Matt Reed, the curator of the American Indian Collections at the Oklahoma Historical Society in Oklahoma City, whose mother was a Pawnee Indian. “If you had darker skin, you were a lesser human. So, if your skin was light enough to pass as not being Indian, then you just passed as white and your life was a lot better off. A lot more people did that than you might think.” <=

--- Boston.com​

So from this article I count:

• Three siblings;
• Three distant cousins, at least one and possibly all of whom don't know Warren;
• An undetermined number of other cousins;
• And a college friend

--- ALL corroborating the family folklore. Seven-plus people.

You got ............ zero.

Then she should have no problem proving it, oh wait, she can't. Never mind!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Day 2,574. Number of Warren Indian ancestors is still pinned at zero.

It's possible that the Great great great grandfather of a second cousin was 1/4 Indian. Still not enough for her to declare herself as Indian

 

[Papageorgio]

Day 2,574. Number of Warren Indian ancestors is still pinned at zero.

It's possible that the Great great great grandfather of a second cousin was 1/4 Indian. Still not enough for her to declare herself as Indian

You know what is hilarious is that Dems defend such crap. They loved the white American that felt black, they want people to use whatever the hell bathroom they want, depending on how they feel that day. If you feel like putting down a minority to get ahead, they sure like that.

People that claim to be a race, a sex, a gender are seriously unstable.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Day 2,574. Number of Warren Indian ancestors is still pinned at zero.

It's possible that the Great great great grandfather of a second cousin was 1/4 Indian. Still not enough for her to declare herself as Indian

You know what is hilarious is that Dems defend such crap. They loved the white American that felt black, they want people to use whatever the hell bathroom they want, depending on how they feel that day. If you feel like putting down a minority to get ahead, they sure like that.

People that claim to be a race, a sex, a gender are seriously unstable.

Dems hate everyone equally, the despise all people and have nothing but loathing especially for a group like the American Indian who won't even speak out when Squirrely Cheekbones is fucking them in broad daylight

 

[HenryBHough]

Do you think any of this will matter to George Soros when he's deciding who's to replace Mrs. Rodham-Clinton/Lewinsky when she be thrust under da bus?

C'mon, he didn't even care where Kenya IS last time that was of any importance.