Send Fighter Jets To The Ukraine.

[Kruska]

......., they probably have people who know how to fly them.

That is not really of concern for NATO.

Initially NATO was correct in supplying Russian equipment - due to Ukraine having the experience, and infrastructure to maintain and arm these weapon systems.
Due to the horrendous amount of ammo being discharged on both sides, Ukraine's Russian equipment is deteriorating rapidly and it's ammo supplies are dwindling.

Taking into account that this war is likely to go on for e.g. another 2-3 years (IMO meeting Putin's longtime objective) it is top priority now for NATO to get Ukraine supplied
with Western NATO weapon systems. (independent of NATO themselves running out of ammo and weapon-systems in view of their present production layout).

Therefore to send e.g. Mig 29's or Su 22's - can only be a short-term solution - since sooner or later these already old and worn out weapon-systems will be useless.
So spend again loads of money on weapon-systems that do not have a future - or concentrate NATO's financial contributions towards sustainable NATO western weaponry.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

From what I hear, the Ukraine still has Russian fighter jets. Maybe not many, but they have them. Seeing how they have them, they probably have people who know how to fly them.

The entire Ukrainin AF was older Soviet equipment when the war started and not have been replaced.

 

[dimensional]

So far it has for those who support and encourage this system. Since around 2000 it has further evolved via taking up loans to even pay the interest rate.
Water scarcity or whatever coming global warming issues would effect any monetary/economic system.
What is your solution? Barter-trade?

As I said before, the direction in which our currency is heading is unsustainable. At least that's what I heard. Right now our national debt is around 31 trillion dollars. Can it go up to 200 trillion? Or beyond? It seems to me that at some point, something has to give. When that happens, the paper money is written on will be more value than what is written on it.

 

[dimensional]

Questions end with question marks. You’re an imbecile. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Well I just improved the written word. Deal with it.

 

[dimensional]

That is not really of concern for NATO.

Initially NATO was correct in supplying Russian equipment - due to Ukraine having the experience, and infrastructure to maintain and arm these weapon systems.
Due to the horrendous amount of ammo being discharged on both sides, Ukraine's Russian equipment is deteriorating rapidly and it's ammo supplies are dwindling.

Taking into account that this war is likely to go on for e.g. another 2-3 years (IMO meeting Putin's longtime objective) it is top priority now for NATO to get Ukraine supplied
with Western NATO weapon systems. (independent of NATO themselves running out of ammo and weapon-systems in view of their present production layout).

Therefore to send e.g. Mig 29's or Su 22's - can only be a short-term solution - since sooner or later these already old and worn out weapon-systems will be useless.
So spend again loads of money on weapon-systems that do not have a future - or concentrate NATO's financial contributions towards sustainable NATO western weaponry.

So, what are you saying. Support the Ukraine with weapons or not.

 

[dimensional]

The entire Ukrainin AF was older Soviet equipment when the war started and not have been replaced.

Well the point is that the Ukraine has at least some fighter pilots. It probably wouldn't be too hard to train them to fly and use American fighters. They in turn could train others. I think their problem is not having fighter jets. Not a shortage of those who could fly them.

 

[Kruska]

.... When that happens, the paper money is written on will be more value than what is written on it.

Not necessarily; the by far largest "figures" containing money bill known to me,- is a 20 Trillion RBN (Reichsbanknote). Since I posses two of them I don't give a dirt about Bernard Arnault or Elon Musk.
Didn't Joe Biden come up with a single platinum coin stating US$ 1 trillion?

 

[Kruska]

So, what are you saying. Support the Ukraine with weapons or not.

Since NATO provoked/asked for this war in the present fashion - so as for Putin to go into a full attack on Feb. 2022 - and not in e.g. 2025, and the UK and USA being the guarantors for Ukraine's sovereignty since 1994 - (Russia dropped out from it's obligation due to unknown reasons) UK and US boots must be on the ground.

Otherwise it's just an empty promise/gesture such as the UK had given to Poland in March 1939. If this causes a nuclear confrontation - well the UK and USA might have thought about this before hoping into other people/countries business in such a manner.

If other NATO members or whatever country wants to "voluntarily" support the UK, USA and the Ukraine - up to them how and with what. Since the Ukraine is no NATO member it is legally speaking not NATO's or anyone else's legal responsibility - or contractual/treaty obligation. Aside from the UK and the USA.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Orangecat]

Well I just improved the written word. Deal with it.

You just self-identified as an illiterate imbecile. Deal with it.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

As I said before, the direction in which our currency is heading is unsustainable. At least that's what I heard. Right now our national debt is around 31 trillion dollars. Can it go up to 200 trillion? Or beyond? It seems to me that at some point, something has to give. When that happens, the paper money is written on will be more value than what is written on it.

When is this going to happen?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Well the point is that the Ukraine has at least some fighter pilots. It probably wouldn't be too hard to train them to fly and use American fighters. They in turn could train others. I think their problem is not having fighter jets. Not a shortage of those who could fly them.

Are you a pilot? If not you are completely unaware of the complexities involved in flying a new aircraft and learning it's capabilities and weapons system.

Imagine transitioning from a Soviet era SU-27 to an F-15. That is like transitioning from an F-18 with two engines and non-stealth capability to an F-35C with a single engine and stealth capability. It takes a minimum of 6 months and usually longer. The USAF transition time to the F-35B is 9 months.

Why do you always argue from a position of incredible ignorance?

 

[para bellum]

The entire Ukrainin AF was older Soviet equipment when the war started and not have been replaced.

They are operating MiG-29's and Su-27's today, plus some Su-25's and somehow they have managed to get some Su-24's flying.

The SAM threat is just crazy- taking off in anything is practically a suicide mission. The fast jets for the most part stay away from the front lines, and fly patrols over Kiev and the western part of the country. Operating near the front lines has to be at done low altitude where fast jets burn fuel like mad...

But they received enough parts and spares from Poland last year to get 20 MiG-29's flying, and it looks like the 29 or 30 frames in Poland will be going to Ukraine soon. Those are in decent shape but need the NATO IFF and comms removed.

Ukraine has integrated HARM missiles to their MiG-29's and Su-27's and JDAM is in use, so it's been integrated into at least one of those platforms also. (That mod needs to me done on the Polish planes too).

It also means they are using the MiG-29 or Su-27 for some strike missions now, and they have a powerful weapon they can strike the Kerch Bridge with, if they choose to risk it.

They are looking at what it will take to integrate AIM-120/B into the MiG-29. There are a lot of older AMRAAMs in inventory and they are already in Ukraine with NASAMS, so having a common missile between the fighters and the air defense is convenient.

Any Western jet will be 2-5 years out and isn't going to influence this war, so the Polish MiG's (modified for a limited NATO loadout) is Ukraine's best bet. Even if we pull some F-16's they will have to go through some kind of MLU, and that will take a couple years at best.

I still think A-10's would be a lot better than the Uke Su-25's, and more survivable, but they didn't want them, so oh well...

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They are operating MiG-29's and Su-27's today, plus some Su-25's and somehow they have managed to get some Su-24's flying.

The SAM threat is just crazy- taking off in anything is practically a suicide mission. The fast jets for the most part stay away from the front lines, and fly patrols over Kiev and the western part of the country. Operating near the front lines has to be at done low altitude where fast jets burn fuel like mad...

But they received enough parts and spares from Poland last year to get 20 MiG-29's flying, and it looks like the 29 or 30 frames in Poland will be going to Ukraine soon. Those are in decent shape but need the NATO IFF and comms removed.

Ukraine has integrated HARM missiles to their MiG-29's and Su-27's and JDAM is in use, so it's been integrated into at least one of those platforms also. (That mod needs to me done on the Polish planes too).

It also means they are using the MiG-29 or Su-27 for some strike missions now, and they have a powerful weapon they can strike the Kerch Bridge with, if they choose to risk it.

They are looking at what it will take to integrate AIM-120/B into the MiG-29. There are a lot of older AMRAAMs in inventory and they are already in Ukraine with NASAMS, so having a common missile between the fighters and the air defense is convenient.

Any Western jet will be 2-5 years out and isn't going to influence this war, so the Polish MiG's (modified for a limited NATO loadout) is Ukraine's best bet. Even if we pull some F-16's they will have to go through some kind of MLU, and that will take a couple years at best.

I still think A-10's would be a lot better than the Uke Su-25's, and more survivable, but they didn't want them, so oh well...

Thank you for the information, Captain Obvious!

You agreed with just about everything I just said!

 

[para bellum]

Thank you for the information, Captain Obvious!

You agreed with just about everything I just said!

Did you think I was trying to refute your post?

I could make the same comment about that one too, but asshat replies are not my automatic response...Jesus, take a pill or something.

I'll say this. For the past year, Ukraine has been doing what everyone says is impossible, and people still under-rate them. They are much more capable then they get credit for.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Did you think I was trying to refute your post?

I could make the same comment about that one too, but asshat replies are not my automatic response...Jesus, take a pill or something.

I'll say this. For the past year, Ukraine has been doing what everyone says is impossible, and people still under-rate them. They are much more capable then they get credit for.

If that is the case, don't quote my post!

 

[para bellum]

If that is the case, don't quote my post!

I frequently quote someone to add context to what they were saying. It doesn't mean I am disagreeing with someone.

But I will not quote you unless I want to start a fight, which will probably be never, so "as you were, sailor..."

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I frequently quote someone to add context to what they were saying. It doesn't mean I am disagreeing with someone.

But I will not quote you unless I want to start a fight, which will probably be never, so "as you were, sailor..."

It is common courtesy. Have a nice day!

 

[Dagosa]

The Ukraine and Vietnam are two different things. In Vietnam, it was hard to distinguish enemies from civilians. And their economic structures were very different. Infiltrators would find it difficult to remain anonymous in the Ukraine.

Like one is a voting republic and the other is an autocracy ?
Gee, check mark with Vietnam war.
How about they are indistinguishable from each other ? Check mark again. You think Russia is distinguishing military from civilian targets ? You may think so, but Russia isn’t.
What brought No Vietnam to the table, was we did the same there as the Russians are doing, making it hard on the civilian population.

We’re doing the same in the Ukrain/ Russia. Thats what sanctions are all about. Sadly, ALL WARS ARE WON AND LOST finally, by making the civilian population SUFFER.
Russia would gladly kill any Americans, support troops included in Ukraine to sway public opinion. An offensive weapon like American Jet fighters opens retaliation on every level, especially if we put AMERICANS there to support them.

 

[dimensional]

Not necessarily; the by far largest "figures" containing money bill known to me,- is a 20 Trillion RBN (Reichsbanknote). Since I posses two of them I don't give a dirt about Bernard Arnault or Elon Musk.
Didn't Joe Biden come up with a single platinum coin stating US$ 1 trillion?

Try to make sense. It works better that way.

 

[dimensional]

Since NATO provoked/asked for this war in the present fashion - so as for Putin to go into a full attack on Feb. 2022 - and not in e.g. 2025, and the UK and USA being the guarantors for Ukraine's sovereignty since 1994 - (Russia dropped out from it's obligation due to unknown reasons) UK and US boots must be on the ground.

Otherwise it's just an empty promise/gesture such as the UK had given to Poland in March 1939. If this causes a nuclear confrontation - well the UK and USA might have thought about this before hoping into other people/countries business in such a manner.

If other NATO members or whatever country wants to "voluntarily" support the UK, USA and the Ukraine - up to them how and with what. Since the Ukraine is no NATO member it is legally speaking not NATO's or anyone else's legal responsibility - or contractual/treaty obligation. Aside from the UK and the USA.

Does that answer your question?

The U.K. and the U.S. didn't ask Russia to invade the Ukraine. How about just not replying to me any more.