Should our Constitution's 2nd Amendment be amended ... ?

[2aguy]

Which is why no one should try to ban guns. The only result is that criminals and the government have all the guns and the innocent have to dodge the bullets.

The innocent and law abiding responsible citizens like me can buy guns whatever and whenever I want here in U.S. no one can stop me...BUT from what I'm understanding from gun nuts is arm ALL people. Am I correct?

No, there are implied limits which are; 1. the person is not a felon, and 2. the person is not criminally insane.

No? How do you suppose to implement your #1 & 2 without a universal background check at the minimum at least? Or at least close the loophole selling firearms at gun shows. That alone gun supporters strongly disagree because of lost sales.
Secondly I heard all over the Internet which gun nuts heavily advocates that ALL adult citizens should carry armed for defensive use. So what is no to you?

Your dog don't hunt, Pumpkin.

1. Background checks can't work for OBVIOUS reasons;
2. There is no gun show"loophole";
3. There is no valid "lost sales" connection to be made with regard to protecting rights;
4. And what you think you heard some "gun nuts" say on the internet is meaningless because,

• The actual "gun nuts" represent the tiny minority fringe of those who are pro-rights advocates;
• And what you think you heard is not representative at all of what the mainstream of pro-rights advocates say.

You're welcome, Pumpkin!

If background checks doesn't work so why are you scared of implementing it? Why don't you let it go instead of giving all these excuses princess? Even RESPONSIBLE gun owners support some gun measures.
I thought you are more knowledgeable about sales of guns by private dealers at gun shows and apparently not. This was even shown by Ed Lavandera of CNN in Texas gun show. If you close that loophole means lost of sales. Princess.

If background checks doesn't work so why are you scared of implementing it

First, because they don't work universal background checks will fail to keep guns out of the hands of criminals…who steal their guns, get people with clean records to buy the guns for them or buy guns from criminals who already stole them or got them through the straw purchaser…

Second….since universal background checks will do nothing to stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns….gun crime will still continue as will mass shootings….

After the implementation of universal background checks and the next horrible mass shooting, that was not stopped by universal background checks…the next step for the gun grabbers will be the cry for………registering all guns…..since that is the only way to know where all the guns are for universal background checks…

Gun grabbers are snakes……they slowly plan on constricting the right to keep and bear arms…..


And again…universal background checks don not work and will not work any better than current background checks do….they are the gateway to gun registration….

My answer….put tattoos on the shoulders of convicted criminals….that way, at gun shows, gun stores or private sales…you will immediately know if the person can buy the gun by simply looking at their shoulder…….

Criminals will Stil get guns by stealing them, getting someone with a clean record to buy them for them or by buying already illegally obtained guns from other criminals….

But the tattoo will stop universal background checks, will stop licensing gun owners and registering guns.

It would also end the need to get permits to carry guns……

Law abiding people, without the no gun allowed tattoo, will be able to buy guns easily, and carry them freely….because at any point their legal status can be known by looking at their shoulder…...

 

[Conservative65]

Should our Constitution's 2nd Amendment be amended to promote gun control?

Moderation Note:
Quote Removed because it's from another Message Board. Check the rules.

Automobiles may kill more humans than guns kill in the U.S.
But we already regulate them. To operate them on public roadways:
- the driver must be licensed
- the vehicle must meet legal standards
- obeying motor-vehicle & traffic laws is required
- cars are being built safer and "better" all the time. Most of a century ago, there were cars on the road with 2 wheel brakes. Today there are cars on our public roadways with:
4 wheel power disc brakes
anti-lock brakes
air bags (front & side)
crumple-zone crash-energy absorption design
collapsible steering column
and much, much more.

So since their proliferation, cars have gotten safer, and better.
In vivid contrast, since the U.S. Founding, guns have gotten vastly more lethal.

Should the United States Constitution's Second Amendment which acknowledges the People's "right to keep and bear arms" be amended to compensate for this divergent technological trend? Safer cars, and ever more deadly guns?

Nothing about a gun is unsafe. It's the idiots that misuse them that are the problem.

None of those things on that car make it safer if someone doesn't use the car the way it was designed.

 

[LOki]

Last Saturday 10/10/15 I flew to Jacksonville, Tx to attend my godson wedding. Father of the bride (liberal) is a gun supporters like some of these people here with massive gun collections. It happened that there is a gun show nearby. Gun show was never in my itinerary but it's an invitation that I cannot turn down. Sunday 10/11/15 we attended a gun show in Palestine, Tx about 25 miles from Jacksonville. Inside it did take us long to find 2 private gun dealers.
I asked one private dealer....if I buy any gun with cash....Do I need to fill up paper works and background check? His answer was NO.
LOOPHOLES AT GUN SHOW EXIST. It's not a fiction it's the reality. Gun supporters can deny however or whatever but I proved it to myself it does exist. I stand there for a while observing these 2 private dealers. Shockingly and disgustingly they are getting lots of visits and sales.
Gun Show Oct. 9, 10, 11. Civic Center 1819 West Spring St. Palestine, Tx

You did not describe any "loophole."

You talked to private sellers. You talked to no private "dealers." You call them "dealers" just to establish some kind of validity for this notion you have of a "loophole."

The gun show loophole is a myth, and you are still clown-shoes.

 

[MisterBeale]

The Facts about Gun Shows
The Facts about Gun Shows
Despite what some media commentators have claimed, existing gun laws apply just as much to gun shows as they do to any other place where guns are sold. Since 1938, persons selling firearms have been required to obtain a federal firearms license. If a dealer sells a gun from a storefront, from a room in his home or from a table at a gun show, the rules are exactly the same: he can get authorization from the FBI for the sale only after the FBI runs its “instant” background check (which often takes days to complete). As a result, firearms are the most severely regulated consumer product in the United States — the only product for which FBI permission is required for every single sale.

Conversely, people who are not engaged in the business of selling firearms, but who sell firearms from time to time (such as a man who sells a hunting rifle to his brother-in-law), are not required to obtain the federal license required of gun dealers or to call the FBI before completing the sale.

Similarly, if a gun collector dies and his widow wants to sell the guns, she does not need a federal firearms license because she is just selling off inherited property and is not “engaged in the business.” And if the widow doesn’t want to sell her deceased husband’s guns by taking out a classified ad in the newspaper, it is lawful for her to rent a table at a gun show and sell the entire collection.

If you walk along the aisles at any gun show, you will find that the overwhelming majority of guns offered for sale are from federally licensed dealers. Guns sold by private individuals (such as gun collectors getting rid of a gun or two over the the weekend) are the distinct minority.

Thanks…that is a great source and explanation…I am now stealing it for future use. If you see any of my posts that you want to use please feel free….keep up he fight.

You're welcome.

All I saw in this thread was a lot of people that have been indoctrinated by the MSM who have failed to educate themselves on the law.

"Closing" the so called "gun show loop hole" will do only one thing. It will stop free people from coming together to trade. It will only push this sort of activity to Craig's list, that is all. Frankly, one would think that the establishment would want all this activity occurring regularly at centrally located venues where they can keep an eye on gun transfers. But if they don't want to, oh well. Folks can and will still be able to do this sort of thing at garage sales, estate sales and on Craig's list.

Nothing will change; we will still have our second Amendment. If they want to change that, let's see them petition the government, let's see if they have the votes. We know they don't. Everyone in the Republican party, probably more than half of the independents, and an equal number of Democrats just don't support messing with the 2nd Amendment, no matter how much MSM and government propaganda they dump on the nation. So these silly threads are a waste of everyone's time.

Hell, we've even seen those that theorize that some of these mass shootings are orchestrated media events. They posit events such as mass shootings that happen are like emergency drills and staged acting productions with government hired actors. I don't know all about that, but then again, I can't prove them wrong either. I do know that all of these media companies meet with both parties at the CFR to determine future policy, and the government is the one with ties to clandestine organizations and private security contractors. So who the hell am I to say who is right?

All I know is, if you want to take folks guns away, sure, change the Second Amendment, let's see if they have the votes. I do know that the MSM and the TV has everyone believing the the Democrats and Republicans are different, so I am sure, eventually, the NWO/UN/Agenda 21 propaganda will have the more gullible idiots in this nation convinced that a change is necessary. They did it in the UK and Australia, so there is no reason to believe that they can't do it here. The nice thing is, it will take 2/3 majority to get it done.

Does anyone thinks 2/3 of the membership of any forum in the US will ever support that? I don't.

 

[Wyld Kard]

Should our Constitution's 2nd Amendment be amended ... ?

Absolutely not.

It shouldn't be amended. It shouldn't be repealed. IT SHOULD BE LEFT ALONE.

The 2nd Amendment is fine as is.

 

[Wyld Kard]

Should be completely repealed. Pleanty of countries get on just fine and a lot better than us without 2nd amendments.

Should be completely repealed.

No it shouldn't. It should be left alone.

People shouldn't have to give up their constitutional rights, just because dumbasses like yourself don't agree with it.

 

[protectionist]

Should be completely repealed. Pleanty of countries get on just fine and a lot better than us without 2nd amendments.

If that happened we would have a crime bloodbath. Bad enough we've been having mass shootongs (all in gun-free zones). If all America became a gun-free zone, we'd have these mass shooting in multiples, every day.

Just the opposite is what's need. we need many MORE guns > held by law-abiding, licensed gun owners, and a complete repeal of gun-free zones.

 

[danielpalos]

I believe we need better aqueducts and better roads, and more well regulated militia, instead of a War on Crime with the (other) Peoples' Tax monies.

 

[charwin95]

I asked one private dealer....if I buy any gun with cash....Do I need to fill up paper works and background check? His answer was NO.
LOOPHOLES AT GUN SHOW EXIST

You only believe this because you are ignorant of the law and the definition of "loophole".
As this has been explained to you numerous times, this ignorance can only be considered willful.

Explained to me a couple of times. Like what from gun nuts? Do you expect me to believe what you gun nuts are telling me? It does not make any difference who is telling left or right. I need to prove this myself. My friend that took me to the show is a liberal gun nuts.
You can tell me whatever or however you want but it does exist. How do you want me to handle this? Just close my eyes and hopefully it I didn't have happened? Crap.

 

[charwin95]

Dannyboys...Wipe the foaming off your mouth. Do you want me to just don't say anything what I've experienced?

 

[charwin95]

Last Saturday 10/10/15 I flew to Jacksonville, Tx to attend my godson wedding. Father of the bride (liberal) is a gun supporters like some of these people here with massive gun collections. It happened that there is a gun show nearby. Gun show was never in my itinerary but it's an invitation that I cannot turn down. Sunday 10/11/15 we attended a gun show in Palestine, Tx about 25 miles from Jacksonville. Inside it did take us long to find 2 private gun dealers.
I asked one private dealer....if I buy any gun with cash....Do I need to fill up paper works and background check? His answer was NO.
LOOPHOLES AT GUN SHOW EXIST. It's not a fiction it's the reality. Gun supporters can deny however or whatever but I proved it to myself it does exist. I stand there for a while observing these 2 private dealers. Shockingly and disgustingly they are getting lots of visits and sales.
Gun Show Oct. 9, 10, 11. Civic Center 1819 West Spring St. Palestine, Tx

Did you turn him into police…you know the way all other crimes would be solved…..? And if you did tell the police, no one would have to be licensed and no guns need to be registered……..

If you see bad behavior you can report it………

And this is why I think putting a tattoo on the shoulder of convicted felons would work. If you put a tattoo on the shoulder of felons, in this case, he could have simply asked you to show him your shoulder…if you had the no guns allowed tattoo, he would know that you couldn't have a gun…without any paperwork and would know immediately.

Of course..since criminals get guns by stealing them, getting someone with a clean record to buy them for them and through other criminals who have already done the other two things…..even tattooing shoulders would not stop criminals from getting guns…..

What it would do….is put an end to the push for universal background checks…since they would never be needed. There would be no need to license gun owners, since a quick look at the shoulder would do the trick.

And no need to register guns, since when you stopped someone with a gun, you could just look at their shoulder to know if they could own or carry it….

Also…now that I think of it…no need for carry permits either concealed or open…..police would be able to know if the person was legally able to carry the gun by looking at the shoulder….

It is immediate, it is cheap, it doesn't require normal people to be cops and conduct background checks….and it is sure fire to keep felons from easily accessing gun shows, gun stores or private sales……

All without paperwork…..

Join me to get this passed into law….

My friend that took me to this show is a liberal gun nuts with massive gun collections. He introduced me to this private dealer. My friend did not even expect that I would be asking that loophole question. How do you expect me to handle this, just close my eyes and pretend it did not happened? I travel a lot so I will keep an eye of any gun shows that are in my path. Next time I ran into this I will surely turn this person to police.
Watching Democratic debate even Bernie Sanders mentioned "close the loophole at gun shows".

 

[JimBowie1958]

I asked one private dealer....if I buy any gun with cash....Do I need to fill up paper works and background check? His answer was NO.
LOOPHOLES AT GUN SHOW EXIST

You only believe this because you are ignorant of the law and the definition of "loophole".
As this has been explained to you numerous times, this ignorance can only be considered willful.

Explained to me a couple of times. Like what from gun nuts? Do you expect me to believe what you gun nuts are telling me? It does not make any difference who is telling left or right. I need to prove this myself. My friend that took me to the show is a liberal gun nuts.
You can tell me whatever or however you want but it does exist. How do you want me to handle this? Just close my eyes and hopefully it I didn't have happened? Crap.

You might ask if the 'dealer' had an FFL and was really in business to sell guns.

Private sellers do not have to obey background check laws in most states.

 

[charwin95]

I asked one private dealer....if I buy any gun with cash....Do I need to fill up paper works and background check? His answer was NO.
LOOPHOLES AT GUN SHOW EXIST

You only believe this because you are ignorant of the law and the definition of "loophole".
As this has been explained to you numerous times, this ignorance can only be considered willful.

Explained to me a couple of times. Like what from gun nuts? Do you expect me to believe what you gun nuts are telling me? It does not make any difference who is telling left or right. I need to prove this myself. My friend that took me to the show is a liberal gun nuts.
You can tell me whatever or however you want but it does exist. How do you want me to handle this? Just close my eyes and hopefully it I didn't have happened? Crap.

You might ask if the 'dealer' had an FFL and was really in business to sell guns.

Private sellers do not have to obey background check laws in most states.

Thank you.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I asked one private dealer....if I buy any gun with cash....Do I need to fill up paper works and background check? His answer was NO.
LOOPHOLES AT GUN SHOW EXIST

You only believe this because you are ignorant of the law and the definition of "loophole".
As this has been explained to you numerous times, this ignorance can only be considered willful.

Explained to me a couple of times. Like what from gun nuts? Do you expect me to believe what you gun nuts are telling me?

Only mindless bigots weigh arguments based on who makes them; fact of the matter is you choose to be wrong.
.

 

[charwin95]

I asked one private dealer....if I buy any gun with cash....Do I need to fill up paper works and background check? His answer was NO.
LOOPHOLES AT GUN SHOW EXIST

You only believe this because you are ignorant of the law and the definition of "loophole".
As this has been explained to you numerous times, this ignorance can only be considered willful.

Explained to me a couple of times. Like what from gun nuts? Do you expect me to believe what you gun nuts are telling me?

Only mindless bigots weigh arguments based on who makes them; fact of the matter is you choose to be wrong.
.

Tell me where did I go wrong? For not listening to your asshole comments?
Listening to democratic presidential debate even Sanders mentioned "close the loophole at gun shows"....exact words. Maybe it's time for you to update your ignorance.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I asked one private dealer....if I buy any gun with cash....Do I need to fill up paper works and background check? His answer was NO.
LOOPHOLES AT GUN SHOW EXIST

You only believe this because you are ignorant of the law and the definition of "loophole".
As this has been explained to you numerous times, this ignorance can only be considered willful.

Explained to me a couple of times. Like what from gun nuts? Do you expect me to believe what you gun nuts are telling me?

Only mindless bigots weigh arguments based on who makes them; fact of the matter is you choose to be wrong.
.

Tell me where did I go wrong? For not listening to your asshole comments?
Listening to democratic presidential debate even Sanders mentioned "close the loophole at gun shows"....exact words. Maybe it's time for you to update your ignorance.

Sanders is just borrowing wornout phrases and cliches

 

[Geaux4it]

There's no need for additional infringements on Americans civil rights

-Geaux

 

[LOki]

I asked one private dealer....if I buy any gun with cash....Do I need to fill up paper works and background check? His answer was NO.
LOOPHOLES AT GUN SHOW EXIST

You only believe this because you are ignorant of the law and the definition of "loophole".
As this has been explained to you numerous times, this ignorance can only be considered willful.

Explained to me a couple of times. Like what from gun nuts? Do you expect me to believe what you gun nuts are telling me?

Only mindless bigots weigh arguments based on who makes them; fact of the matter is you choose to be wrong.
.

Tell me where did I go wrong? For not listening to your asshole comments?
Listening to democratic presidential debate even Sanders mentioned "close the loophole at gun shows"....exact words. Maybe it's time for you to update your ignorance.

The "Gun Show Loophole" is superstition.

Just because the superstitious sincerely believe that their mythological beasts are real, and are willing to discuss them as real things, it does not follow that their superstitions are valid.

 

[LOki]

I asked one private dealer....if I buy any gun with cash....Do I need to fill up paper works and background check? His answer was NO.
LOOPHOLES AT GUN SHOW EXIST

You only believe this because you are ignorant of the law and the definition of "loophole".
As this has been explained to you numerous times, this ignorance can only be considered willful.

Explained to me a couple of times. Like what from gun nuts? Do you expect me to believe what you gun nuts are telling me? It does not make any difference who is telling left or right. I need to prove this myself. My friend that took me to the show is a liberal gun nuts.
You can tell me whatever or however you want but it does exist. How do you want me to handle this? Just close my eyes and hopefully it I didn't have happened? Crap.

You might ask if the 'dealer' had an FFL and was really in business to sell guns.

Private sellers do not have to obey background check laws in most states.

This is not quite true.

Private sellers are exempt--by law--from the requirement to perform background checks in most states. They still are in compliance with those laws though--they are still obeying those laws.

 

[Conservative65]

Yes. The 2nd amendment needs a tweaking, but should not be completely thrown overboard. "St #10

Thanks St.
Precisely what wording would you substitute, for the current Article Two?

You really should use the quote function in order to keep stuff from getting mixed up.

The original idea for the 2nd Amendment was to make sure that the fledgling Republic could muster together an army as quickly as possible, were the British to come back, and come back they did. For this reason, the inclusion of "well regulated militia" in the text of the amendment. It's also based on British Common Law of the day, which also allowed for gun ownership, but again, at the behest of the then royal army and navy.

I am not opposed to gun ownership. In fact, I have owned a gun in the past. But uniform security and background checks, including psych tests, should be mandatory.

I had a gun stolen from my LOCKED vehicle. What form of background check and psych test would you propose be done on the thief?