Should Senate impeachment trial allow witnesses?

trump forfeited any pretense that he is legitimate by his complete failure to come forth and to allow his subordinates to come forth in front of the public. They have been offered every opportunity to come forth and testify under oath. They have hidden everything they do from the American People, and yet whine that they have not been treated fairly.

The orange whore even hides his finances, which every other president has been open about. I will not even go into his treatment of his fellow Americans, as well as immigrants, and his refusal to listen to the professionals working in national security and foreign affairs to keep our country safe, and his repudiation of them in favor of kissing putin's ass.
Not true. The democrats need only to wait for the courts do make a decision.

Which begs the question as to why he has not come forward, along with his potentially exculpatory witnesses. Delaying tactics do not erase the implications of his behavior. He has brought this on himself by his own actions.
 
trump forfeited any pretense that he is legitimate by his complete failure to come forth and to allow his subordinates to come forth in front of the public. They have been offered every opportunity to come forth and testify under oath. They have hidden everything they do from the American People, and yet whine that they have not been treated fairly.

The orange whore even hides his finances, which every other president has been open about. I will not even go into his treatment of his fellow Americans, as well as immigrants, and his refusal to listen to the professionals working in national security and foreign affairs to keep our country safe, and his repudiation of them in favor of kissing putin's ass.
Exactly. Why won't he let the witnesses speak?

Let's see, why would anyone in their right mind NOT want their associates to be put under oath and grilled by a howling mob out for blood?

Basically, the House could have compelled testimony, but choose not to, and now wants the Senate to cover for them.
 
And if they do, the Republicans are going to be in deep trouble in the 2020 general election... deep, profound trouble.

Don’t necessarily count on that. There are many Americans who just want this thing over and done with, regardless or the outcome. They’re sick of hearing about it every day. They’re sick of their soap operas and other programming being preempted by Government hearings they neither understand nor care about.

Yes, that.
 
79% of Democrats say YES.

72% of Independents say YES.

64% of Republicans say YES.


A poll released Tuesday by ABC News and The Washington Post found that about 7 in 10 Americans think the administration officials should be able to testify. In an example of bipartisan agreement, 79% of Democrats, 64% of Republicans and 72% of independents agree that Trump should allow them to appear in a Senate trial in the likely event that the House votes to impeach him.

Impeachment: Poll finds most think Trump should let aides testify in Senate

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer is requesting four witnesses: acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, former national security adviser John Bolton, senior adviser to the acting White House chief of staff Robert Blair and Office of Management and Budget official Michael Duffey.

Chuck Schumer requests four witnesses in impeachment Senate trial - CNN

Chuck Schumer is only requesting four witnesses. I think this is a fair and reasonable request - especially since most Americans, most Republicans, and most Independents want witnesses in the Senate impeachment trial. What do you think?

I think investigation is the House's job and they should not attempt to have the Senate do their job for them. If they want these witnesses, it's their job to get them to testify. "Oh, but mean old orange man won't let them". That's what the courts are for.

The bottom line is, the House won't take the steps necessary to force testimony. That's not the Senate's problem.
What is your assessment of the Dem's argument they 1. have already produced ample evidence to impeach 2. could not afford to wait for the courts to rule on Trump's obstruction because of the imminent threat Trump poses in corrupting another election after soliciting the help of Russia in the 2016 election? 3. want Repubs in the Senate to pressure the WH to relent on it's obstruction in order for senators to have ALL the pertinent information they need to decide on impeachment.

My assessment is that they knew going in that this was a possible outcome. Knowing that, they could have prepared for a court battle, they could have sought a fast track through to the SC, just like the SC got involved very quickly in the 2000 election. They didn't, and now they're trying to get the Senate to cover for them.

They didn't take their job seriously, which tells me they're looking for a campaign issue more than real justice.
A poll released Tuesday by ABC News and The Washington Post found that about 7 in 10 Americans think the administration officials should be able to testify. In an example of bipartisan agreement, 79% of Democrats, 64% of Republicans and 72% of independents agree that Trump should allow them to appear in a Senate trial in the likely event that the House votes to impeach him.

Why won't he let the witnesses speak?

It's his prerogative unless they are compelled to testify. You can rhetorically ask why all day long, but you already think you know the answer and will accept none other, no matter how logical.
 
Because the Congress does not get to run roughshod over the Whitehouse.
They aren't. They are within their constitutional authority.

A poll released Tuesday by ABC News and The Washington Post found that about 7 in 10 Americans think the administration officials should be able to testify. In an example of bipartisan agreement, 79% of Democrats, 64% of Republicans and 72% of independents agree that Trump should allow them to appear in a Senate trial in the likely event that the House votes to impeach him.

Why won't he let the witnesses speak?
They are not within their Constitutional authority. That is what is being challenged in court. You know, the check on Congress is the Judiciary and the Whitehouse has every right to utilize that check.

What’s the argument that they’re not in their constitutional authority? How does Congress not have a right to subpoena the executive? They’ve been doing it since the early years of the Republic.

And the executive fights it nearly every time. Sometimes they can claim executive privilege and sometimes they can't.
 
trump forfeited any pretense that he is legitimate by his complete failure to come forth and to allow his subordinates to come forth in front of the public. They have been offered every opportunity to come forth and testify under oath. They have hidden everything they do from the American People, and yet whine that they have not been treated fairly.

The orange whore even hides his finances, which every other president has been open about. I will not even go into his treatment of his fellow Americans, as well as immigrants, and his refusal to listen to the professionals working in national security and foreign affairs to keep our country safe, and his repudiation of them in favor of kissing putin's ass.
Not true. The democrats need only to wait for the courts do make a decision.

Which begs the question as to why he has not come forward, along with his potentially exculpatory witnesses. Delaying tactics do not erase the implications of his behavior. He has brought this on himself by his own actions.
So, the use and exercise of a right is concluded to be a delaying tactic? Well, possibly, but it is a legitimate one. Clearly, one in which the Democrats were not willing to wait for. This then tells us that the witnesses they do not wish to wait for actually have no real value to the product they wish to produce.

So, I conclude that the talking point, "Why won't he let them speak" to be one which can easily be ignored. He will let them speak, provided they get the courts to agree with them that they have legitimate cause to question them.
 
How can the prosecution or defense present their cases without witnesses?

That was the job of the house to do...the senate acts as the jury.

Trump obstructed the House impeachment process by not allowing key witnesses to testify - forcing the House into the courts that would drag out into the 2020 election season.
Pursuing the legal means to defend yourself is not "obstruction," turd.
LOL
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Let's see, why would anyone in their right mind NOT want their associates to be put under oath and grilled by a howling mob out for blood?
Your deceitful lie does not change the fact that Trump has the choice of allowing the testimony of what his claims imply are witnesses who will exonerate him.

Trump claims he didn't do anything wrong.

A poll released Tuesday by ABC News and The Washington Post found that about 7 in 10 Americans think the administration officials should be able to testify. In an example of bipartisan agreement, 79% of Democrats, 64% of Republicans and 72% of independents agree that Trump should allow them to appear in a Senate trial in the likely event that the House votes to impeach him.

If the witnesses will exonerate him, why won't he let the witnesses speak?
 
How can the prosecution or defense present their cases without witnesses?

Because morons, it isn't the job of the Senate to hold an all new hearing all over again and retry the president a second time, but to JUDGE the case presented them by the House!

Too bad Schiffty wouldn't allow the GOP to call Biden, Hunter and the others they wanted, then they could have gotten Mulvaney and others THEY wanted! Too late now!


Calling the Bidens to testify would be proper. After all, if the Bidens are indeed corrupt, Trump had every right to ask Ukraine to investigate. Putting them on the witness stand where Hunter could be asked about his involvement in the cocaine and prostitution rackets would be enlightening.

Funny. What do the Bidens have to do with Trump's impeachment trial? They would not be relevant witnesses.

Gee, that is so incredibly stupid and non-funny, I don't know if I should laugh at you or just put you on ignore as a total waste of my time. THE MAIN CHARGE against Trump is that:

accused.png


So then, everything hinges on whether it really was just a purely political abuse of power (the BASIS of the impeachment) or whether there really was legitimate legal interest there! And the Democrats have decided to just assume there wasn't and impeach a president without so much as even talking to or looking at the person involved. No matter what about Trump, a crime is still a crime, unless, like Hillary, it involves their primary candidate!

DECIDED: You don't deserve further consideration to even waste another minute of my time on reading. Bye.
 
Because the Congress does not get to run roughshod over the Whitehouse.
They aren't. They are within their constitutional authority.

A poll released Tuesday by ABC News and The Washington Post found that about 7 in 10 Americans think the administration officials should be able to testify. In an example of bipartisan agreement, 79% of Democrats, 64% of Republicans and 72% of independents agree that Trump should allow them to appear in a Senate trial in the likely event that the House votes to impeach him.

Why won't he let the witnesses speak?
They are not within their Constitutional authority. That is what is being challenged in court. You know, the check on Congress is the Judiciary and the Whitehouse has every right to utilize that check.

What’s the argument that they’re not in their constitutional authority? How does Congress not have a right to subpoena the executive? They’ve been doing it since the early years of the Republic.
They have the right to issue a subpoena. The Executive has the right to claim privilege. The courts are the instrument that determines who is within their Constitutional authority to do so.
 
This impeachment bullshit has gone too long.
We all know that the Republicans in the Senate will vote NO, so vote asap and move on to more important shit like the economy and the trade war with china.
Bunch of incompetent retards running America like it's a banana republic.

The point is we don't want to become a banana republic where the dictators are free to roam. McConnel and others have guaranteed that they wouldn't convict trump no matter what he did. Well, if that's true, a trial in the senate will show this country, the world and future voters how corrupt the republicans have become.
 
trump forfeited any pretense that he is legitimate by his complete failure to come forth and to allow his subordinates to come forth in front of the public. They have been offered every opportunity to come forth and testify under oath. They have hidden everything they do from the American People, and yet whine that they have not been treated fairly.

The orange whore even hides his finances, which every other president has been open about. I will not even go into his treatment of his fellow Americans, as well as immigrants, and his refusal to listen to the professionals working in national security and foreign affairs to keep our country safe, and his repudiation of them in favor of kissing putin's ass.
Not true. The democrats need only to wait for the courts do make a decision.

Which begs the question as to why he has not come forward, along with his potentially exculpatory witnesses. Delaying tactics do not erase the implications of his behavior. He has brought this on himself by his own actions.

It's a tactic, and apparently it's working, because now he has his opponents begging him to nuke their own case against him.
 
79% of Democrats say YES.

72% of Independents say YES.

64% of Republicans say YES.


A poll released Tuesday by ABC News and The Washington Post found that about 7 in 10 Americans think the administration officials should be able to testify. In an example of bipartisan agreement, 79% of Democrats, 64% of Republicans and 72% of independents agree that Trump should allow them to appear in a Senate trial in the likely event that the House votes to impeach him.

Impeachment: Poll finds most think Trump should let aides testify in Senate

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer is requesting four witnesses: acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, former national security adviser John Bolton, senior adviser to the acting White House chief of staff Robert Blair and Office of Management and Budget official Michael Duffey.

Chuck Schumer requests four witnesses in impeachment Senate trial - CNN

Chuck Schumer is only requesting four witnesses. I think this is a fair and reasonable request - especially since most Americans, most Republicans, and most Independents want witnesses in the Senate impeachment trial. What do you think?

It would seem if the GOP wants to vindicate their child leader they would want as many witnesses as allowed.
 
Because the Congress does not get to run roughshod over the Whitehouse.
They aren't. They are within their constitutional authority.

A poll released Tuesday by ABC News and The Washington Post found that about 7 in 10 Americans think the administration officials should be able to testify. In an example of bipartisan agreement, 79% of Democrats, 64% of Republicans and 72% of independents agree that Trump should allow them to appear in a Senate trial in the likely event that the House votes to impeach him.

Why won't he let the witnesses speak?
They are not within their Constitutional authority. That is what is being challenged in court. You know, the check on Congress is the Judiciary and the Whitehouse has every right to utilize that check.

What’s the argument that they’re not in their constitutional authority? How does Congress not have a right to subpoena the executive? They’ve been doing it since the early years of the Republic.

And the executive fights it nearly every time. Sometimes they can claim executive privilege and sometimes they can't.

Nearly every time? That’s absolutely not true.

Do you know how many times Obama claimed executive privilege?
Once. In 8 years.

And as far as I’ve heard, there is no claim of executive privilege.
 
79% of Democrats say YES.

72% of Independents say YES.

64% of Republicans say YES.


A poll released Tuesday by ABC News and The Washington Post found that about 7 in 10 Americans think the administration officials should be able to testify. In an example of bipartisan agreement, 79% of Democrats, 64% of Republicans and 72% of independents agree that Trump should allow them to appear in a Senate trial in the likely event that the House votes to impeach him.

Impeachment: Poll finds most think Trump should let aides testify in Senate

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer is requesting four witnesses: acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, former national security adviser John Bolton, senior adviser to the acting White House chief of staff Robert Blair and Office of Management and Budget official Michael Duffey.

Chuck Schumer requests four witnesses in impeachment Senate trial - CNN

Chuck Schumer is only requesting four witnesses. I think this is a fair and reasonable request - especially since most Americans, most Republicans, and most Independents want witnesses in the Senate impeachment trial. What do you think?
Here's my take on this like it matters! Politically speaking the House gets to be the Grand Jury ( the prosecutor) House is voting on the Charges they have found to be impeachable and will send that Evidence and testimony to be debated by the Jury (The Senate) . They should have used the 3rd branch of the Govt.( Supreme Court) to overcome Executive Privilege if they felt the witnesses "they are now requesting" could have strengthened their Case before trial. Dems did not want to take the time to allow the Court to decide on Constitutional legal issues. They, like any prosecutor who doesn't do their job has to go to trial with what they have. The fact is they will lose this in the Senate because their is no Case. They don't get a second bite at the evidence apple. It's like a judge "Charging a jury" to make their decision based on the evidence presented to them then adding more testimony after the case has been presented to the jury. This thing is back firing big time for Dems. There won't be any witnesses in the Senate. Maybe a little Political theatre but a very quick up and down vote in the Senate is the plan.:piss2:
 
How can the prosecution or defense present their cases without witnesses?

Because morons, it isn't the job of the Senate to hold an all new hearing all over again and retry the president a second time, but to JUDGE the case presented them by the House!

Too bad Schiffty wouldn't allow the GOP to call Biden, Hunter and the others they wanted, then they could have gotten Mulvaney and others THEY wanted! Too late now!
Holding a trial is exactly the job of the senate. The house had hearings to determine whether to impeach Trump. Now there will be a trial to determine whether he is guilty.
Exactly. If you ask THE HEAD OF THE SENATE, he will tell you they are now the jury to weigh the case presented them by the House upon which they based their decision to impeach, and JUDGE him guilty of the charges and remove him or acquit him of the charges.
 
I highly doubt any witness on either side is going to reveal anything we don't already know. Fuck it, I think the house reps make their case and then the WH reps make their's and they vote. This bullshit has gone on enough IMHO and besides, the outcome is already known. Why waste any more time?
The trial should proceed and the witnesses that are called need to appear and testify. That is how trials work, and that is how the Constitution outlines impeachment procedures.
I never heard of "negotiating" whether there will be witnesses. What kind of bizarre world is this, anyway?
 
Because the Congress does not get to run roughshod over the Whitehouse.
They aren't. They are within their constitutional authority.

A poll released Tuesday by ABC News and The Washington Post found that about 7 in 10 Americans think the administration officials should be able to testify. In an example of bipartisan agreement, 79% of Democrats, 64% of Republicans and 72% of independents agree that Trump should allow them to appear in a Senate trial in the likely event that the House votes to impeach him.

Why won't he let the witnesses speak?
They are not within their Constitutional authority. That is what is being challenged in court. You know, the check on Congress is the Judiciary and the Whitehouse has every right to utilize that check.

What’s the argument that they’re not in their constitutional authority? How does Congress not have a right to subpoena the executive? They’ve been doing it since the early years of the Republic.
They have the right to issue a subpoena. The Executive has the right to claim privilege. The courts are the instrument that determines who is within their Constitutional authority to do so.

That case was already heard during Nixon.
 
How can the prosecution or defense present their cases without witnesses?

Because morons, it isn't the job of the Senate to hold an all new hearing all over again and retry the president a second time, but to JUDGE the case presented them by the House!

Too bad Schiffty wouldn't allow the GOP to call Biden, Hunter and the others they wanted, then they could have gotten Mulvaney and others THEY wanted! Too late now!
Holding a trial is exactly the job of the senate. The house had hearings to determine whether to impeach Trump. Now there will be a trial to determine whether he is guilty.
True from the evidence produced from the house nothing more
And if the house had a case for impeachment the democrats wouldn't be asking the jury to find more evidence.

Absolutely. The House has said here is a packet of evidence upon which we found sufficient basis in order to impeach the president. Now it is up to the Senate to judge that evidence as either sufficient or insufficient grounds to do so. Why would they need to spend 5 minutes looking one step farther when the House has already said their case is conclusive and presented it to the Senate to agree or disagree?
 
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