Should we or should we not legalize drugs?

[pegwinn]

Originally posted by krisy
Tobacco doesn't make people get in their cars and drive erratically and kill people though.

You are right. Tobacco isn't mind altering, but it is body altering. And the jury is still out on secondhand smoke and non-smokers. Tobacco is more addictive than heroin, and has a political lobby stretching back to about 1600. Don't worry about tobacco, the only way to get rid of it is to burn the fields. BTW, I smoked for 22 years, have been smoke free for about 13 months. My lungs still feel the effects when I PT. And not a day goes by that I don't seriously rationalize that "only one" would be ok.

As far as alcohol goes,I could care less about it,because I don't drink. I don't believe cigs can be compared to drugs. Drugs are mind altering,cigarettes may be addictive,but don't cause the problems in society that drugs do such as murder,rape,abuse of all kinds.theft etc...

But alcohol is a drug as well. It's an addictive drug that spawned an amendment to the constitution, and jump started organized crime in America. Without Alcohol the FBI wouldn't be what it is today. It's like saying "I don't care about cocaine because I don't do cocaine." Alcohol causes more deaths to innocents than the hard core drugs. Look at the dead and injured from drug crime v. drunk driving. Also look at the domestic abuse stats from so-called mean drunks.

I won't argue about the effects of nicotine,but it just can't compare to drugs in society.

I respectfully disagree and so would the American Cancer Society. So long as we regulate a legal Alcohol/Tobacco industry, the rest of the drug war is hypocracy.

Just my 2 pennies in a nickel world.

 

[krisy]

Originally posted by insein
Alcohol is mind altering and we only have a law that says if your caught driving intoxicated your in trouble. People make fools of themselves when they are drunk. People that do drugs would do the same. I too feel that the War on Drugs is a futile one. That money can be better spent in the War on terror or in other needed areas of our country.

I worded that wrong insein. As far as alcohol goes,I just meant that if it were legalized,it wouldn't affect me directly because I don't drink. I know it is a problem for many people though,and a serious one.

 

[krisy]

Originally posted by pegwinn
You are right. Tobacco isn't mind altering, but it is body altering. And the jury is still out on secondhand smoke and non-smokers. Tobacco is more addictive than heroin, and has a political lobby stretching back to about 1600. Don't worry about tobacco, the only way to get rid of it is to burn the fields. BTW, I smoked for 22 years, have been smoke free for about 13 months. My lungs still feel the effects when I PT. And not a day goes by that I don't seriously rationalize that "only one" would be ok.



But alcohol is a drug as well. It's an addictive drug that spawned an amendment to the constitution, and jump started organized crime in America. Without Alcohol the FBI wouldn't be what it is today. It's like saying "I don't care about cocaine because I don't do cocaine." Alcohol causes more deaths to innocents than the hard core drugs. Look at the dead and injured from drug crime v. drunk driving. Also look at the domestic abuse stats from so-called mean drunks.



I respectfully disagree and so would the American Cancer Society. So long as we regulate a legal Alcohol/Tobacco industry, the rest of the drug war is hypocracy.

Just my 2 pennies in a nickel world.

I don't mean to defend tobacco as if it's healthy. I am a smoker and everyday wonder what my life will be in 10 years becuase I choose to do this. I also have asthma(spare me the lectures,I get them from my doctor all the time) and wish I had never picked up a cig. I still don't think they cause the behavioral problems that alcohol and tobacco do.

 

[pegwinn]

Originally posted by krisy
I don't mean to defend tobacco as if it's healthy. I am a smoker and everyday wonder what my life will be in 10 years becuase I choose to do this. I also have asthma(spare me the lectures,I get them from my doctor all the time) and wish I had never picked up a cig. I still don't think they cause the behavioral problems that alcohol and tobacco do.

You are 100% correct on the behavioral issues. My sympathies on the ailments, no lectures I promise. I wish there was an easy answer. Thats why I like the debate boards. Who know's? Some future great one may be learning from us.

 

[JohnGalt]

As a student at the High School with the fourth most drug abuse cases in Colorado I can say that legalizing drugs would be insane! I have seen first hand two of my friends lives ruined and one ended due to drugs and I can't think of what the world would be like if kids parents were buying them drugs instead of cigarettes or alcohol (yes that happens alot too). Drugs do kill people, they are evil, and I would rather live a miserable life than see more of my friends die because the government decided they needed some more money intake by way of making drugs legal and placing taxes on it.

Yes, if people are hooked then they will find a way to get to their craving fullfilled, but GIVING (I know, not free, but they could pick the drugs up at the local WalGreens) them the damn drugs... what the hell is wrong with you people.

Just think how you would feel about drugs if the last time you saw one of your friends was him leaving a party after smoking a bowl. And then you find out the next moring that a 4x4 had gone through his chest after flipping his car into a fence, and the last memory of him that you have is one where he is high, and you are slightly (I stress slightly) intoxicated.

Common sense leads one to believe that tax money is worth the youths of America's lives...but some people are just senseless.

Not all kids indulge in drugs... in fact, the study group that I am in for my AP classes promised each other that we wouldn't do drugs. Parents play a big role, but friends are bigger...nothing holds me more accountable than when my best friend says that he wouldn't do that or "Dude, that is fucking retarded."

The war isn't futile...the future will bring change, and drugs won't play such a signifacant part in it...I personally don't do drugs because I know that they won't help me get to where I want to be, and there is a whole generation that believes that same thing.

Well there are my two cents, hopefully not too many typos...

 

[MtnBiker]

Well said John, that is a great study group you must have.

 

[pegwinn]

Originally posted by JohnGalt
As a student at the High School with the fourth most drug abuse cases in Colorado I can say that legalizing drugs would be insane! I have seen first hand two of my friends lives ruined and one ended due to drugs and I can't think of what the world would be like if kids parents were buying them drugs instead of cigarettes or alcohol (yes that happens alot too). Drugs do kill people, they are evil, and I would rather live a miserable life than see more of my friends die because the government decided they needed some more money intake by way of making drugs legal and placing taxes on it.

Yes, if people are hooked then they will find a way to get to their craving fullfilled, but GIVING (I know, not free, but they could pick the drugs up at the local WalGreens) them the damn drugs... what the hell is wrong with you people.

Just think how you would feel about drugs if the last time you saw one of your friends was him leaving a party after smoking a bowl. And then you find out the next moring that a 4x4 had gone through his chest after flipping his car into a fence, and the last memory of him that you have is one where he is high, and you are slightly (I stress slightly) intoxicated.

Common sense leads one to believe that tax money is worth the youths of America's lives...but some people are just senseless.

Not all kids indulge in drugs... in fact, the study group that I am in for my AP classes promised each other that we wouldn't do drugs. Parents play a big role, but friends are bigger...nothing holds me more accountable than when my best friend says that he wouldn't do that or "Dude, that is fucking retarded."

The war isn't futile...the future will bring change, and drugs won't play such a signifacant part in it...I personally don't do drugs because I know that they won't help me get to where I want to be, and there is a whole generation that believes that same thing.

Well there are my two cents, hopefully not too many typos...

Young Man, I am only going easy because you are young and your opinions are formed primarily through limited experience and emotion.

First Off: In 1981 I was a high school senior. My graduating class lost six students to drug abuse. This was when pot was DOC (DRUG OF CHOICE) and cocain was for rich kids. The motto was "Sex, Drugs, and RockNRoll" And we rocked. The drugs then were light compared to what is available today. So I vividly remember the dead teen scenario. Did I mention that one of the kids was killed when the drug dealer shot her? He thought the girl was a police setup. This was before street gangs affiliated with the columbians. No assualt weapons. But she could've been your mother.

Second: We did this long before I was born. Read the constitution and the amendment that started then repealed prohibition. Read the above posts. Set aside the temper fit, and read your history. The drug war is the best of intentions that simply isnt working. Start your research here >>> Google: War on Drugs

Third: You said that drugs are evil. I agree. But they are no worse than Alcohol or Tobacco. I believe that in order to be fair, it's all or nothing. Which drugs are you in favor of. What flavor of toxin do you support. Why is DT's and Detox a right? But, I am not allowed to snort coke. At least if heroin was legal, it'd soon have purity requirements, the needles would be one time disposables, and the taxes could help fund additional education and rehab.

Finally: You are my future. Don't take this as gospel. Go back to your AP study group (my kids did AP as well) Do your own research and come back guns up and loaded. We will wait.

start here Letter to Judge King

 

[insein]

Originally posted by JohnGalt
As a student at the High School with the fourth most drug abuse cases in Colorado I can say that legalizing drugs would be insane! I have seen first hand two of my friends lives ruined and one ended due to drugs and I can't think of what the world would be like if kids parents were buying them drugs instead of cigarettes or alcohol (yes that happens alot too). Drugs do kill people, they are evil, and I would rather live a miserable life than see more of my friends die because the government decided they needed some more money intake by way of making drugs legal and placing taxes on it.

Yes, if people are hooked then they will find a way to get to their craving fullfilled, but GIVING (I know, not free, but they could pick the drugs up at the local WalGreens) them the damn drugs... what the hell is wrong with you people.

Just think how you would feel about drugs if the last time you saw one of your friends was him leaving a party after smoking a bowl. And then you find out the next moring that a 4x4 had gone through his chest after flipping his car into a fence, and the last memory of him that you have is one where he is high, and you are slightly (I stress slightly) intoxicated.

Common sense leads one to believe that tax money is worth the youths of America's lives...but some people are just senseless.

Not all kids indulge in drugs... in fact, the study group that I am in for my AP classes promised each other that we wouldn't do drugs. Parents play a big role, but friends are bigger...nothing holds me more accountable than when my best friend says that he wouldn't do that or "Dude, that is fucking retarded."

The war isn't futile...the future will bring change, and drugs won't play such a signifacant part in it...I personally don't do drugs because I know that they won't help me get to where I want to be, and there is a whole generation that believes that same thing.

Well there are my two cents, hopefully not too many typos...

No offense but he obviously got the drugs anyway. Even though they were illegal. So what exactly are we stopping? If they are government regulated, there can be standards and less chances of getting "bad doses" of marijuana and such. Allowing columbian cartels to make billions off of us while we spend billions to fight them is assinine. Funds that we make off of regulating the drugs could be put towards education and rehab programs to hopefully eliminate the need to use the drugs.

 

[nycflasher]

Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

Singer smoke it
And players of instruments too
Legalize it, yeah, yeah
That's the best thing you can do
Doctors smoke it
Nurses smoke it
Judges smoke it
Even the lawyers too...

-Pete Tosh, Legalize It

DEFINITELY marijuana should be legal. There is NO valid argument for the legality of liquor while MJ is not.

Other drugs... I dunno. Tough call. Hard to imagine what it would be like if we had junkies and crackies wondering the streets legal doping. But, they do it anyway now...

Anyone interested in the possibility/ramifications of legalizing other drugs should read up on Australia where I believer they experimented with legalized heroin. I can't remember the European country where it is legal, but I believe there is one. Or a European city or part of where it is. Liek a "heroin park" or something. Then there is Holland where prostitution is legal. Kind of a different thing though, I guess.

I'd be curious to see any info anyone can find on this topic. Studies, etc.

THE WAR ON DRUGS IS THE BIGGEST WASTE OF TAXPAYER MONEY IN RECENT HISTORY THAT I CAN THINK OF!!!!! A more or less failed effort to curb America's insatiable appetite for illicit drugs.

One word: E-D-U-C-A-T-I-O-N. Ignorance is the greatest enemy of the people, IMO.

 

[sponge]

Legalize it. It's obviously a failed "war" and only serves as a PR thing at this point.

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by JohnGalt
As a student at the High School with the fourth most drug abuse cases in Colorado I can say that legalizing drugs would be insane! I have seen first hand two of my friends lives ruined and one ended due to drugs and I can't think of what the world would be like if kids parents were buying them drugs instead of cigarettes or alcohol (yes that happens alot too). Drugs do kill people, they are evil, and I would rather live a miserable life than see more of my friends die because the government decided they needed some more money intake by way of making drugs legal and placing taxes on it.

Yes, if people are hooked then they will find a way to get to their craving fullfilled, but GIVING (I know, not free, but they could pick the drugs up at the local WalGreens) them the damn drugs... what the hell is wrong with you people.

Just think how you would feel about drugs if the last time you saw one of your friends was him leaving a party after smoking a bowl. And then you find out the next moring that a 4x4 had gone through his chest after flipping his car into a fence, and the last memory of him that you have is one where he is high, and you are slightly (I stress slightly) intoxicated.

Common sense leads one to believe that tax money is worth the youths of America's lives...but some people are just senseless.

Not all kids indulge in drugs... in fact, the study group that I am in for my AP classes promised each other that we wouldn't do drugs. Parents play a big role, but friends are bigger...nothing holds me more accountable than when my best friend says that he wouldn't do that or "Dude, that is fucking retarded."

The war isn't futile...the future will bring change, and drugs won't play such a signifacant part in it...I personally don't do drugs because I know that they won't help me get to where I want to be, and there is a whole generation that believes that same thing.

Well there are my two cents, hopefully not too many typos...

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

 

[Semper Fi]

Marijuana is legal in Alaska, where I live. You can have 2 ounces growing in your home, but you can only use it in your home or some other non-public place. So far (the legalization was released around September 2003), I haven't notic3ed much of a differance, mostly because my eighth grade friends aren't into that. However, I would say that even though pot is a more dangerous substance than tobacco and alchohal, I think that it should be legal as it is here in the North as it should in the Lower 48. Heroin and other hard drugs, I think should be completely illegal and the "war" should continue as usual. Also, if you taxed the drugs and used the money to support rehab, how many people do you think would use that? I mean, if a guy was in an ally shot up on coke and was somewhat content with his altered and artificial lifestyle, would he really go against that and go inot rehab? I personnally don't think so. But then there is the parent who found pot in their son/daughter's room and wants to scare them striaght, then its a good idea. I suppose not much else could come from the tax dollars that would contribute to cleaning up America's youth though. I also think that if this pot-law catches on, the penalty for selling/ under the influence of/ possetion or any of the above pertaining to a minor should be extreme and over-egsaturated (spelling?) It's time for some serious action, if you ask me, alot of people at my school talk about getting high so nonchalantly its scary and a terrible foresite of what the future may bring. We should control this now, not in the future, the future could be too late.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by sponge
Legalize it. It's obviously a failed "war" and only serves as a PR thing at this point.

I must agree with sponge.

 

[OCA]

Yeah lets legalize heroin, cocaine, acid and all the rest of them, it wil be awesome! I can't wait for the time when my truck is having the brakes redone and the stupid fuck who's fixing them keeps nodding off because he just got done mainlining in his office to hold off the sickness that seems to come every afternoon lately. The same nods that cause him to screw up and cause a 23 car pile up on the beltway because my brakes went out.

Are you people insane??????

I'm all for legalizing Marijuana but the comparing of cigarettes to hard drugs is ridiculous.

Alcohol is a socially accepted drug thats been around since the beginning of time, you'd do better to try and get the sun to set in the east than to use it as a comparison to the hard drugs.

Am I the only one who realizes that we have tens of millions of obsessives in this country? If drugs were legal they'd jump on it in a hot minute, job and life be damned. We'd become a country of junkies.

 

[TN_Independent]

I'm against legalizing drugs. I believe that if we do away with laws simply because they are difficult (you may say impossible, but I don't believe that) to enforce, we'd have to trash quite a few that are on the books now. Allowing something to occur simply because it is difficult to control or prevent is irresponsible, I think.

If I was "King for a Day", one of my first official acts would be to require mandatory drug testing for anyone (and I do mean anyone) who receives any form of government funding - this would include, but not be limited to: salary, grants, loans, welfare, government assistance, etc. If you were not "drug free" you would be warned and one more failed test would guarantee the loss of your funding. This would hopefully be the start of a process where the "demand" end of the chain would start to be broken.

While I understand that there is no <b>one</b> solution to this problem, I think that this would be a big step in the right direction.

You see, I don't think that you can win the drug war by fighting the supply end (there is always going to be way too much profit there for someone not to take the risk). You have to defeat the drug war from the demand side. Capatilism at its finest - eliminate the demand and the profit from supply will evaporate.

Just my $0.02 worth.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
Yeah lets legalize heroin, cocaine, acid and all the rest of them, it wil be awesome! I can't wait for the time when my truck is having the brakes redone and the stupid fuck who's fixing them keeps nodding off because he just got done mainlining in his office to hold off the sickness that seems to come every afternoon lately. The same nods that cause him to screw up and cause a 23 car pile up on the beltway because my brakes went out.

Are you people insane??????

I'm all for legalizing Marijuana but the comparing of cigarettes to hard drugs is ridiculous.

Alcohol is a socially accepted drug thats been around since the beginning of time, you'd do better to try and get the sun to set in the east than to use it as a comparison to the hard drugs.

Am I the only one who realizes that we have tens of millions of obsessives in this country? If drugs were legal they'd jump on it in a hot minute, job and life be damned. We'd become a country of junkies.

The war on drugs has been used to justify more violations of our civil rights than any other issue.

I hear you, OCA, but the crime associated with drugs is due exclusively to their illegality. If drugs were priced the way they should be, junkies could off themselves in a year or two, without having to steal to get their fix. Anyone can beg and get a couple bucks a day.

 

[JohnGalt]

I like one of independant's points, If drugs were legalized, then the welfare state would boost dramatically. People would not be able to get jobs as easily (same as alcoholics) and government handouts would be abused even more than they are presently...yes, hard to believe it could get worse...

 

[pegwinn]

originally posted by oca
Yeah lets legalize heroin, cocaine, acid and all the rest of them, it wil be awesome! I can't wait for the time when my truck is having the brakes redone and the stupid fuck who's fixing them keeps nodding off because he just got done mainlining in his office to hold off the sickness that seems to come every afternoon lately. The same nods that cause him to screw up and cause a 23 car pile up on the beltway because my brakes went out.

Are you people insane??????

Yes we are. If you believe that employers won't do "at-will" drug testing then you are insane as well. See, if drugs are legal, real soon liability issues will crop up. As a logical consequence anyone involved in a security, public trust, public safety, or another sensitive position will be tested as a condition of employment.

originally posted by ocaI'm all for legalizing Marijuana but the comparing of cigarettes to hard drugs is ridiculous.
Alcohol is a socially accepted drug thats been around since the beginning of time, you'd do better to try and get the sun to set in the east than to use it as a comparison to the hard drugs.

Are you a professional hypocrite? Or is this just a part time hobby? Not comparing Alcohol and Tobacco to other illicit drugs is so stupid there should be a law against it. Heroin causes no where near as many annual deaths, or costs anywhere near the $$$ as the A/T.

originally posted by ocaAm I the only one who realizes that we have tens of millions of obsessives in this country? If drugs were legal they'd jump on it in a hot minute, job and life be damned. We'd become a country of junkies.

Yup, and in the first two weeks the hard core junkie population would weed itself out of existance. Remember these are people who've heard the "this is your brain" speech and blew it off. Can you say Darwin?

Originally posted by TN_Independent
I'm against legalizing drugs. I believe that if we do away with laws simply because they are difficult (you may say impossible, but I don't believe that) to enforce, we'd have to trash quite a few that are on the books now. Allowing something to occur simply because it is difficult to control or prevent is irresponsible, I think.

A firm tenet of Military Leadership is to "never give an order you cannot enforce". Many laws currently on the books are there in response to a knee-jerk reaction and failure to enforce prior laws that covered the same circumstances. By decriminalizing drugs, we focus efforts on education (just like we are doing with Alcohol and Tobacco) and rehab.

Originally posted by TN_Independent If I was "King for a Day", one of my first official acts would be to require mandatory drug testing for anyone (and I do mean anyone) who receives any form of government funding - this would include, but not be limited to: salary, grants, loans, welfare, government assistance, etc. If you were not "drug free" you would be warned and one more failed test would guarantee the loss of your funding. This would hopefully be the start of a process where the "demand" end of the chain would start to be broken.

Bravo. Testing at all phases of society along with societal disaproval works better than cops and guns. The DUI rate has dropped dramatically in the last few years due to education and society disapproval

Originally posted by TN_Independent While I understand that there is no <b>one</b> solution to this problem, I think that this would be a big step in the right direction.

You see, I don't think that you can win the drug war by fighting the supply end (there is always going to be way too much profit there for someone not to take the risk). You have to defeat the drug war from the demand side. Capatilism at its finest - eliminate the demand and the profit from supply will evaporate.

Just my $0.02 worth.

No worries, 1000 good ideas blended will either be one lousy or one brilliant idea. OH yeah.

 

[mattskramer]

Libertarians, like most Americans, demand to be safe at home & on the streets. Libertarians would like all Americans to be healthy & free of drug dependence. But drug laws don't help, they make things worse. The professional politicians scramble to make names for themselves as tough anti-drug warriors, while the experts agree that the "war on drugs" has been lost, and could never be won. The tragic victims of that war are your personal liberty and its companion, responsibility. It's time to consider the re-legalization of drugs.

In the 1920's, alcohol was made illegal by Prohibition. The result: Organized Crime. Criminals jumped at the chance to supply the demand for liquor. The streets became battlegrounds. The criminals bought off law enforcement and judges. Adulterated booze blinded and killed people. Civil rights were trampled in the hopeless attempt to keep people from drinking. When the American people saw what Prohibition was doing to them, they supported its repeal. When they succeeded, most states legalized liquor and the criminal gangs were out of the liquor business. Today's war on drugs is a re-run of Prohibition. Approximately 40 million Americans are occasional, peaceful users of some illegal drug who are no threat to anyone. They are not going to stop. The laws don't, and can't, stop drug use.

Whenever there is a great demand for a product and government makes it illegal, a black market always appears to supply the demand. The price of the product rises dramatically and the opportunity for huge profits is obvious. The criminal gangs love the situation, making millions. They kill other drug dealers, along with innocent people caught in the crossfire, to protect their territory. They corrupt police and courts. Pushers sell adulterated dope and experimental drugs, causing injury and death. And because drugs are illegal, their victims have no recourse.

Half the cost of law enforcement and prisons is squandered on drug related crime. Of all drug users, a relative few are addicts who commit crimes daily to supply artificially expensive habits. They are the robbers, car thieves and burglars who make our homes and streets unsafe.


Civil liberties suffer. We are all "suspects", subject to random urine tests, highway check points and spying into our personal finances. Your property can be seized without trial, if the police merely claim you got it with drug profits. Doing business with cash makes you a suspect. America is becoming a police state because of the war on drugs.

Today's illegal drugs were legal before 1914. Cocaine was even found in the original Coca-Cola recipe. Americans had few problems with cocaine, opium, heroin or marijuana. Drugs were inexpensive; crime was low. Most users handled their drug of choice and lived normal, productive lives. Addicts out of control were a tiny minority. The first laws prohibiting drugs were racist in origin -- to prevent Chinese laborers from using opium and to prevent blacks and Hispanics from using cocaine and marijuana. That was unjust and unfair, just as it is unjust and unfair to make criminals of peaceful drug users today.
Some Americans will always use alcohol, tobacco, marijuana or other drugs. Most are not addicts, they are social drinkers or occasional users. Legal drugs would be inexpensive, so even addicts could support their habits with honest work, rather than by crime. Organized crime would be deprived of its profits. The police could return to protecting us from real criminals; and there would be room enough in existing prisons for them.

It's time to re-legalize drugs and let people take responsibility for themselves. Drug abuse is a tragedy and a sickness. Criminal laws only drive the problem underground and put money in the pockets of the criminal class. With drugs legal, compassionate people could do more to educate and rehabilitate drug users who seek help. Drugs should be legal. Individuals have the right to decide for themselves what to put in their bodies, so long as they take responsibility for their actions. From the Mayor of Baltimore, Kurt Schmoke, to conservative writer and TV personality, William F. Buckley, Jr., leading Americans are now calling for repeal of America's repressive and ineffective drug laws. The Libertarian Party urges you to join in this effort to make our streets safer and our liberties more secure.

http://www.lp.org/issues/relegalize.html

 

[insein]

I was about to say great post matt and then i saw the link at the bottom. Still it was a good bit of info.