Sick and tired of US debate on raising the min. wage.

[Canon Shooter]

I've never seen a compelling argument for increasing minimum wage.

That's completely irrelevant. Minimum wage is populist gold ie it appeals to idiots. And we've got LOTS of idiots.

Sadly, that's very true.

My primary responsibility is to the health of my business. While the state can dictate what I pay someone under my employ, they cannot force me to employ them.

That's what the idiots don't understand...

 

[dblack]

I've never seen a compelling argument for increasing minimum wage.

That's completely irrelevant. Minimum wage is populist gold ie it appeals to idiots. And we've got LOTS of idiots.

Sadly, that's very true.

My primary responsibility is to the health of my business. While the state can dictate what I pay someone under my employ, they cannot force me to employ them.

That's what the idiots don't understand...

Exactly. Liberals have deluded themselves into believing that minimum wage laws force those evil business owners to pay their employees more. Quite literally, the laws don't do that. All they do is make jobs that are worth less than the declared minimum illegal. Many liberals actually believe government can change the value of something by simply declaring it to be so. By their logic, government could make us all ten times richer by simply declaring all our money to be worth ten times as much ($1 = $10, $10 = $100, etc ...). And many of them would probably support such a move.

The rest of them know damned well that minimum wage laws don't do what they pretend. Regardless, the issue inspires the uneducated and the stupid, AND gives government more power over the economy. That makes the issue irresistible to Democrats. Many Republican also support it for the same reasons.

 

[rightwinger]

You seem to be missing the point (on purpose, I'm sure) - minimum wage does real harm.

Tell it to someone trying to feed a family
Tell it to someone trying to make money for college

 

[dblack]

You seem to be missing the point (on purpose, I'm sure) - minimum wage does real harm.

Tell it to someone trying to feed a family
Tell it to someone trying to make money for college

I already have. And I was each of those. Many of them get it. They're not all idiots.

 

[rightwinger]

And that's why 70 years after the "war on poverty" we still have tens of millions staying poor, still waiting for some dumb democrat to fix their lives.

What have Republicans done to help the poor other than ensure we maintain a low wage workforce to enhance corporate profits

 

[Andylusion]

And that's why 70 years after the "war on poverty" we still have tens of millions staying poor, still waiting for some dumb democrat to fix their lives.

What have Republicans done to help the poor other than ensure we maintain a low wage workforce to enhance corporate profits

Republicans have done the most for the poor. If you look at charitable donations, Republicans and specifically Religious Conservatives which are overwhelmingly Republican, we donate more money, and more of our personal time, to helping others than left-wingers or Democrats.

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This is universally documented. Dozens of research papers all point to the fact that Republicans in generally are vastly more charitable than left-wingers and Democrats.

By a wide margine too.

Further, Republicans have better results than Democrats.

Republicans use private charities, which help people actually get out of poverty. Not stay in it like Democrats.

For example, we have a charity here in the city, that helps ex-covicts. Free room and board. They can stay there for up to 4 years. They get job training, and job placement.

I worked at the shelter down town, which provided job training programs, and placement into apprenticeships, and we paid for moving expenses to help, typically women with children, to get into an apartment of their own.

None of the government programs do any of that. Instead people stay on welfare, and never move out of their poverty condition.

So unlike Democrats, we actually help people.

And by the way, Democrats never even attempt to help people. They say "we're helping people" but the reality is, no Democrat votes to support taxing themselves. They want to tax OTHER PEOPLE, to pay for the programs they claim will help.

Name one time that a Democrat on stage in from of hundreds of thousands of middle class people, told everyone "We're going to tax the middle class, to help the poor!". Never. They only claim they will tax OTHER people.

And if you vote Democrat with the expectation that you are not going to be the one taxed.... then you don't care about the poor at all. You only want other people to care for the poor, which makes you a stingy greedy miserly person.

 

[San Souci]

Time for those businesses to start kicking over some of that tax cut to their employees

Perhaps it is.

But it's ignorant to believe that those businesses are simply going to accept it and let it adversely affect their bottom line. They won't. If their costs to do business increase, so will their prices...

Sucks being a businessman because.....Shit happens
That shit may include:
Increased rent
Increased cost of supplies
Increased taxes
Competition from other businesses

It may even include having to pay your employees more

Businesses adapt to “Shit happening”
If they can’t, they fail

Yes. And they respond by cutting hours ,outsourcing ,and raising PRICES. So who gets the shaft in the end ,shit for brains? Try reading a book on economics.---But here is a simple equation for your simple mind. PRICE minus COST equals PROFIT. Labor and TAX are COSTS. Ponder that for a while,LIB.

If you run a burger shack and the price of ground beef doubles (it did) do outsource or Cut hours?
No you raise prices

Right. Inflation. But, because you'll likely lose business - at first a least - you'll also look for ways to cut costs, payroll being a likely target. You could also file for bankruptcy.

We still got a lot of burger joints. Even though the price of a burger nearly doubled

You seem to be missing the point (on purpose, I'm sure) - minimum wage does real harm.

As sure as a dog returns to its own vomit ,a Democrat will ALWAYS find a way to fuck up America.

 

[San Souci]

And that's why 70 years after the "war on poverty" we still have tens of millions staying poor, still waiting for some dumb democrat to fix their lives.

What have Republicans done to help the poor other than ensure we maintain a low wage workforce to enhance corporate profits

Why are they POOR? The whole CONCEPT of America is PERSONAL Responsibility. Ponder that FACT, Libby.

 

[Oldestyle]

Minimum wage is a horseshit issue. But, it stirs up the dummies and gives government more power - so it's irresistible to Democrats.

It is a horseshit issue
It should have been raised 10 years ago and future raises should be tied to inflation

You know why it wasn't? Because politicians are afraid of getting voted out of office for fucking up the economy.

Raising minimum wage does not fuk up the economy
Cutting corporate taxes by 40 percent did

Why would companies being able to investment more money into the economy... cause a problem in the economy? That makes no logical sense.

Further, I pretty sure I heard you in the past say that corporations were off shoring jobs out of the country, because labor is cheaper.......... now you are suggesting that increasing the cost of labor could not possibly harm the economy.

Do you not see those two claims are mutually exclusive?

Only those companies did not use the 40 percent tax cut to invest in the economy, they bought back stock

Guess what? The minimum wage worker will invest almost all of that $15 into the economy

And how will the Minimum wage worker that loses his or her job invest the $0 that they will then be making? You don't care about THOSE people though...do you, Winger? The people with few job skills? The young people just starting out? Those are the people that will really be affected by this. You don't give a crap about them though...do you?

I‘m in my 60s and have heard that same “if we raise minimum wage, people will lose their job “ every time they raised the wage. didn’t happen
Market compensates

Sure, and how many times was it doubled overnight?

Never had to wait 12 years for an increase

Employers have benefitted from a frozen minimum wage all that time. They also received a 40 percent tax cut in 2017


We should have demanded a minimum wage increase at that time but Republicans said FUK the workers

Workers pay increased after that tax cut because the economy was so strong! They also had jobs with some of the lowest unemployment numbers we've ever seen! What you want to do is going to bring the economy to a halt and see unemployment numbers stay lousy for years! That's what we're going to see now with this ill thought out increase!

If employers had taken care of their lowest level employees for the last twelve years and given regular pay increases, they would not be impacted by this minimum wage increase

When I employed people, Winger...I "took care" of my best low level employees by giving them promotions with accompanying raises! If someone was still working at minimum wage after twelve years my question would be why they weren't replaced with someone better at what they do?

 

[San Souci]

Time for those businesses to start kicking over some of that tax cut to their employees

Perhaps it is.

But it's ignorant to believe that those businesses are simply going to accept it and let it adversely affect their bottom line. They won't. If their costs to do business increase, so will their prices...

Sucks being a businessman because.....Shit happens
That shit may include:
Increased rent
Increased cost of supplies
Increased taxes
Competition from other businesses

It may even include having to pay your employees more

Businesses adapt to “Shit happening”
If they can’t, they fail

Yes. And they respond by cutting hours ,outsourcing ,and raising PRICES. So who gets the shaft in the end ,shit for brains? Try reading a book on economics.---But here is a simple equation for your simple mind. PRICE minus COST equals PROFIT. Labor and TAX are COSTS. Ponder that for a while,LIB.

If you run a burger shack and the price of ground beef doubles (it did) do outsource or Cut hours?
No you raise prices

I agree. There are prices you have no choice but to pass onto consumers.
Such as labor in a service industry.

But are you suggesting that every single company are incapable of outsourcing? No, there are many companies that very well can move operations out of the country, and they do.

Again, isn't that what the left-wing has been complaining about for decades, that companies are moving operations out of the country, because the cost of labor in China or India is lower?

Now you are arguing that raising the cost of labor never has any negative effect? Which is it?

Then you tell me, explain to me why companies are outsourcing to China if the cost of labor is not the factor?

Or are you actually trying to suggest that increasing how much you pay people..... doesn't increase the cost of labor?

You explain your logic here. You tell me how that works.

Actually ,it is a threefold problem. Labor ,TAX ,and idiot climate Change Regulations.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You seem to be missing the point (on purpose, I'm sure) - minimum wage does real harm.

Tell it to someone trying to feed a family
Tell it to someone trying to make money for college

Sorry you can no longer feed your family or go to college,
but with the new minimum wage, I can no longer afford to employ you. Good luck.......

 

[Andylusion]

You seem to be missing the point (on purpose, I'm sure) - minimum wage does real harm.

Tell it to someone trying to feed a family
Tell it to someone trying to make money for college

First, if you are trying to feed a family, and you are making minimum wage, that would make you an idiot. Anyone can earn a ton more than minimum wage. Anyone can. I have no degrees. I have no trade skills. I have no talents. No education beyond high school, or certifications, or anything. I made more than $15/hours.

You telling me, that other people can't? If you are stuck at McDonald's, when you are an adult, then there is something wrong with you, and you shouldn't be trying to go to college, or having a family.

If you think that a person that is so terrible as an employee, is going to benefit from going to college, you are crazy.

If you are so worthless as an employee, that you can't even make more than minimum wage, then getting a degree isn't going to help you.

And how are they supposed to feed a family, or go to college, if they are unemployed?

Let me put it another way.

I had a friend who worked at Walmart, when the minimum wage was $5.25. She earned a little less than $9/hour. She worked there for 4 years, and during that time, used the Walmart reimbursement program, and the wages she earned, to cash flow a college degree. Today she is a civil engineer.

Under your system, there is likely a good chance she would have been laid off. Then she wouldn't have a college degree, because few places have a college reimbursement program.

You would have kept her in poverty with your minimum wage.

 

[Andylusion]

Time for those businesses to start kicking over some of that tax cut to their employees

Perhaps it is.

But it's ignorant to believe that those businesses are simply going to accept it and let it adversely affect their bottom line. They won't. If their costs to do business increase, so will their prices...

Sucks being a businessman because.....Shit happens
That shit may include:
Increased rent
Increased cost of supplies
Increased taxes
Competition from other businesses

It may even include having to pay your employees more

Businesses adapt to “Shit happening”
If they can’t, they fail

Yes. And they respond by cutting hours ,outsourcing ,and raising PRICES. So who gets the shaft in the end ,shit for brains? Try reading a book on economics.---But here is a simple equation for your simple mind. PRICE minus COST equals PROFIT. Labor and TAX are COSTS. Ponder that for a while,LIB.

If you run a burger shack and the price of ground beef doubles (it did) do outsource or Cut hours?
No you raise prices

I agree. There are prices you have no choice but to pass onto consumers.
Such as labor in a service industry.

But are you suggesting that every single company are incapable of outsourcing? No, there are many companies that very well can move operations out of the country, and they do.

Again, isn't that what the left-wing has been complaining about for decades, that companies are moving operations out of the country, because the cost of labor in China or India is lower?

Now you are arguing that raising the cost of labor never has any negative effect? Which is it?

Then you tell me, explain to me why companies are outsourcing to China if the cost of labor is not the factor?

Or are you actually trying to suggest that increasing how much you pay people..... doesn't increase the cost of labor?

You explain your logic here. You tell me how that works.

Actually ,it is a threefold problem. Labor ,TAX ,and idiot climate Change Regulations.

True, but left-wingers don't even acknowledge the negative impact of taxes and regulations.

But generally they admit that jobs move oversees. And most of the time, they claim that it is because labor is cheaper.

So I don't understand how they can claim the reason jobs are over seas is because labor is cheaper......

and turn around and say raising the minimum wage, which I think we can all agree increases the cost of labor.... won't have a negative impact,

.....five full seconds after admitting companies are moving jobs over seas because labor is cheaper.

Those two claims are mutually exclusive. One has to be false.

 

[danielpalos]

Would the 'Homeless" be better off in the Street? Or in a fairly clean Jail?

Right wingers in the South don't seem to mind criminalizing poverty. And complain about taxes.

Once again. Would they be better off eating out of dumpsters? Or getting FED in Jail? Only two ways to answer this.

They would be better off in a more moral country where they can bear true witness to our own laws. Faithful execution of our at-will employment laws means they would be able to obtain unemployment compensation in an at-will employment State for simply being unemployed. We should have no homeless problem in our first world economy.

 

[danielpalos]

Why just to $15.00 an hour? Why not $1,500,000,000,000?

Why not free Government so everyone can afford it?

 

[danielpalos]

The minimum wage has been raised many times. MANY times. It has never alleviated. Any of the problems it was supposed to help. In some cases it made financial difficulties even worse.

In other countries, I think Australia is one. They use a class minimum wage. Some classifications are very low to accommodate those just entering the workforce. The problem in this country is that we have tens of thousands of illegal aliens taking jobs meant for unskilled workers and trying to support a family of six with one on the way.

The minimum wage not raised for around a decade yet inflation still happened. Labor was working hard for less every year and all right wingers prefer to do is criminalize poverty because they prefer to "hate on the Poor".

 

[danielpalos]

You seem to be missing the point (on purpose, I'm sure) - minimum wage does real harm.

Because labor can better afford our first world economy?

Create more shovel ready jobs.

 

[danielpalos]

Minimum wage laws are the nanny-state, dipshit.

Our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror are even worse, smartypants.

 

[danielpalos]

I've never seen a compelling argument for increasing minimum wage.

That's completely irrelevant. Minimum wage is populist gold, ie it appeals to idiots. And we've got LOTS of idiots.

Yet, right wingers fall for tax cut economics every time. Ballooning our debt merely so the Rich can get richer and offshore much of their wealth is what right wingers advocate while "hating on the Poor".

 

[danielpalos]

I've never seen a compelling argument for increasing minimum wage.

That's completely irrelevant. Minimum wage is populist gold ie it appeals to idiots. And we've got LOTS of idiots.

Sadly, that's very true.

My primary responsibility is to the health of my business. While the state can dictate what I pay someone under my employ, they cannot force me to employ them.

That's what the idiots don't understand...

Profits over the People. Thanks for admitting it right wingers. We know not to take right wingers seriously in abortion threads; there is no profit in it.