Snowden tells Chinese that we are hacking them.

[Ravi]

He did his country a service by exposing what the government is doing to the country.

that's debatable, since we don't really have much information.

If it is true what he has told the Chinese then he has violated his oath and betrayed his country. I don't care if he thinks puppies are cute (just throwing in another non-sequitor for you to use).

Non-sequitor? As for not having much information, we now know that the Obama administration has been spying indiscriminately on essentially every American citizen without due process or probable cause. We know that James Clapper lied under oath about the NSA's data collection capabilities. I'd say we have quite a bit of information, with more to come apparently.

Yes, a non sequitor. Read my OP. Unless you are trying to make the case that squealing secrets to the Chinese is doing our country a service. It's odd you said "his country," KK....isn't it yours as well?

 

[Ravi]

The guy thought someone might be pissed about being spied on only to discover that no one really gives a shit.

The chinese might keep him if he keeps spilling his guts, so he's going to get really fucked when they are done with him

Who knows and who cares? Everyone spies and hacks. It's no biggie.

lol, I don't think you really believe that.

 

[idb]

I have always just assumed that everything he's revealed was happening anyway.

 

[Ravi]

His telling people that government is violating our Constitutional rights is what he did that's honorable and I see no legitimate national security interest that's worth preserving by government violating our Constitutional rights. Democrats would get that too if a Republican were in the White House.

^This is simply retarded.

You don't violate your oath and betray your country. Doesn't matter who is president.

So where's your post on how you had a cow with the left praising the wikileaks leaker because it doesn't matter who was in the White House and you don't violate your oath to your country? I'm still holding my breath, but I'm starting to get blue, can you hurry that one up?

You can search for it yourself. I think that guy is a toad.

 

[Ravi]

Snowden just gets better and better.

I am glad he's a hero to conservatives.

I see this whole thing in a totally bipartisan way.

I see Snowden purely as a whiz kid who was probably making $200 an hour when he was still in high school by cleaning up corporate computer systems and networks....All by the way of starting out as an expert hacker. So he drops out of high school because he has no motivation for going to college, and winds up getting a contract with BAH, which is ordinarily a very, very difficult firm to be hired into, and I suspect his motives are that he is more bored with what he does than anything Julian Assange-like.

This kid is like the Will Hunting of computer hackers...Brilliant but stupid in the ways of the real world. I suspect he will be extradited.

He's not a kid. 29 isn't a kid by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Trajan]

Snowden just gets better and better.

I am glad he's a hero to conservatives.

When did I stop being a conservative?

since hacks decided they were for this after they were against it

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

that's debatable, since we don't really have much information.

If it is true what he has told the Chinese then he has violated his oath and betrayed his country. I don't care if he thinks puppies are cute (just throwing in another non-sequitor for you to use).

Non-sequitor? As for not having much information, we now know that the Obama administration has been spying indiscriminately on essentially every American citizen without due process or probable cause. We know that James Clapper lied under oath about the NSA's data collection capabilities. I'd say we have quite a bit of information, with more to come apparently.

Yes, a non sequitor. Read my OP. Unless you are trying to make the case that squealing secrets to the Chinese is doing our country a service. It's odd you said "his country," KK....isn't it yours as well?

Talk about a non-sequitor.

Though you are actually right, in some regard. When I said he did his country a service I was referring to leaking the PRISM and Verizon information, not really this Chinese hacking nonsense. So I was responding to you incorrectly, and that's my mistake.

 

[Trajan]

that's debatable, since we don't really have much information.

If it is true what he has told the Chinese then he has violated his oath and betrayed his country. I don't care if he thinks puppies are cute (just throwing in another non-sequitor for you to use).

Non-sequitor? As for not having much information, we now know that the Obama administration has been spying indiscriminately on essentially every American citizen without due process or probable cause. We know that James Clapper lied under oath about the NSA's data collection capabilities. I'd say we have quite a bit of information, with more to come apparently.

Yes, a non sequitor. Read my OP. Unless you are trying to make the case that squealing secrets to the Chinese is doing our country a service. It's odd you said "his country," KK....isn't it yours as well?

and AQ et al reading about the SWIFT prgm. in the NY Times is what exactly?

 

[Ravi]

Non-sequitor? As for not having much information, we now know that the Obama administration has been spying indiscriminately on essentially every American citizen without due process or probable cause. We know that James Clapper lied under oath about the NSA's data collection capabilities. I'd say we have quite a bit of information, with more to come apparently.

Yes, a non sequitor. Read my OP. Unless you are trying to make the case that squealing secrets to the Chinese is doing our country a service. It's odd you said "his country," KK....isn't it yours as well?

and AQ et al reading about the SWIFT prgm. in the NY Times is what exactly?

So, Traj, you're okay with this guy squealing to another government?

 

[Trajan]

Yes, a non sequitor. Read my OP. Unless you are trying to make the case that squealing secrets to the Chinese is doing our country a service. It's odd you said "his country," KK....isn't it yours as well?

and AQ et al reading about the SWIFT prgm. in the NY Times is what exactly?

So, Traj, you're okay with this guy squealing to another government?

no.

want to answer the question?

 

[Ravi]

and AQ et al reading about the SWIFT prgm. in the NY Times is what exactly?

So, Traj, you're okay with this guy squealing to another government?

no.

want to answer the question?

Sure. I thought NYT and WSJ were wrong to put a national security issue out in the general public.

Though I also will admit the information disturbed me since my company, who is basically me and my hubby, often get Swift transfers from people in foreign countries.

 

[aaronleland]

I agree with you on a lot of things, Ravi, but this isn't one of them. Issues like this show people's partisan side. Republicans who wanted Bradley Manning executed now praise Snowden. Democrats who praised Manning now want Snowden extradited and put in jail. In my opinion, they are both heroes. They both exposed criminal behavior by the US government.

As far as telling Chinese we have been spying, I agree with what a few others have said. Telling any government we are spying is like saying the sky is blue. Maybe he thought it would earn him brownie points with the Chinese, but it isn't anything they didn't already know.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I agree with you on a lot of things, Ravi, but this isn't one of them. Issues like this show people's partisan side. Republicans who wanted Bradley Manning executed now praise Snowden. Democrats who praised Manning now want Snowden extradited and put in jail. In my opinion, they are both heroes. They both exposed criminal behavior by the US government.

As far as telling Chinese we have been spying, I agree with what a few others have said. Telling any government we are spying is like saying the sky is blue. Maybe he thought it would earn him brownie points with the Chinese, but it isn't anything they didn't already know.

I agree with all of this, but want to bring up another point. Should we even be mad that he told the Chinese, whether they knew about it or not? Frankly I don't care if he tells them that the U.S. has been hacking them, and then goes into detail about how it was done so that the Chinese might better defend themselves from being hacked. The U.S. government shouldn't be hacking anybody, and in doing so is most certainly not representing me. So what do I care if he helps the Chinese government in this regard? It doesn't hurt me, or any other Americans, in the least.

 

[Lakhota]

Why would Snowden tell China that? He's not only a traitor - he's a moron.

 

[flacaltenn]

How does that help America, exactly?

We have extradition treaties with china.

We ask for him, they will hand him over.

He found out, to late, about this and is now spilling his guts to the chinese to get to stay there and not face justice here.

But now he is a traitor.

unless you just made this up, since there's no link.

Edward Snowden interview: 61,000 NSA hacking ops - Hadas Gold - POLITICO.com

I don't make things up. I agree with what you've said above.

I love watching the contortions you are going thru.. Snowden is a valuable asset to China if the ONLY THING he tells them is about his Origami hobby.. He is Exhibit A for CHina to point to the Civil Rights abuses of American citizens and the dishonesty of their govt in violating their freedoms. They are NOT gonna ruin that trophy by snatching and interrogating..

I could rely on saying that the "Hong Kong Morning News" is not exactly independent of or resistant to the whims of the Chinese govt. And there can be ANY LEVEL of embellishment in their story. Like in adding the exact number of ops against HK and the mainland. But I won't. I'll wait for the Guardian to corroborate that story..

My bet is that Snowden KNOWS his value to the Chinese is not measured as an Intelligience asset, but as a refugee from political persecution from the USA. He's not stupid enough (IMHO) to ruin his cause by walking out of NSA with a pile of files and papers.

I saw NOTHING valuable there in your link. You can go to the Wiki and see that the primary expertise of NSA is breaking codes (hacking) and communication links. OF ALL TYPES.. What matters to the PEOPLE of both countries is WHAT THE TARGET of the hacking is. In the case of China --- it's military equipment and industrial secrets.. I would hope the bulk of our hacking is for military capabilities and PROSECUTION of dangerous state-less cells..

And it's not a secret that the Far East --- particularly HK is a favorite rendevous point for terrorist cells. A contact between a known threat and a professor at HK University would ring some bells wouldn't it? They are just doing that job overseas like you ((particularly you with your love of surveillance against boogeymen)) want them to -- to keep you safe..

He may have passed critical info that the Wiki doesn't know to the UK Guardian. They need SOME PROOF of his claims. Hopefully, they will respect his wishes and not publish and protect or DESTROY any such proof. But he's not passing critical info to the Chinese. Or at least I haven't seen it in that article..

 

[flacaltenn]

----> GENERAL USMB BOARD ANNOUNCEMENT <--------

Will all the "Warriors on Terrorism" caucus please report to the Bush Library for an Emergency meeting? Pretzels will be served by George W.

Ravi -- you gotta go -- don'tcha?

 

[alan1]

Snowden just gets better and better.

I am glad he's a hero to conservatives.

Well, the media is trying to make the story about Mr Snowden, rather than the violation of the 4th Amendment perpetrated by the Obama administration that is the real story.

Mr Sallow, yer avatar looks a lot like a wolf but your behavior is more like a sheep. Kerry on.

 

[alan1]

We have extradition treaties with china.

We ask for him, they will hand him over.

He found out, to late, about this and is now spilling his guts to the chinese to get to stay there and not face justice here.

But now he is a traitor.

unless you just made this up, since there's no link.

Nope, still not a traitor even if it's true.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." - Article 3, Section 3, U.S. Constitution

he told them we were hacking them

that's aid

Like nobody in the world already knew that.

 

[flacaltenn]

Whoops there goes the Wiki.... It'll be operating out of Guantanamo Bay now for the infinite future..

United States Cyber Command - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By the way "Fort Meade" is insider speak for NSA HQ in Maryland. Kinda like saying "Langley did it".

It's Mission Statement and EXACT LOCATION from other text.

USCYBERCOM plans, coordinates, integrates, synchronizes and conducts activities to: direct the operations and defense of specified Department of Defense information networks and; prepare to, and when directed, conduct full spectrum military cyberspace operations in order to enable actions in all domains, ensure US/Allied freedom of action in cyberspace and deny the same to our adversaries."[2]

AND a LIST OF ALL ITS ASSETS.....

U.S. Cyber Command is composed of several service components, units from military services who will provide Joint services to Cyber Command.

Army Cyber Command/Second Army (Army)
Army Network Enterprise Technology Command / 9th Army Signal Command (NETCOM/9thSC(A))
United States Army Intelligence and Security Command will be under the operational control of ARCYBER for cyber-related actions.[6][7][8]
1st Information Operations Command (Land)
780th Military Intelligence Brigade (Cyber)
Fleet Cyber Command/Tenth Fleet (Navy)[9][10]
Naval Network Warfare Command
Navy Cyber Defense Operations Command
Naval Information Operation Commands
Combined Task Forces
Air Forces Cyber/Twenty-Fourth Air Force (Air Force)[11][12]
67th Network Warfare Wing
688th Information Operations Wing
689th Combat Communications Wing
Marine Corps Cyberspace Command (Marine Corps)[13]

AND the dates it went OPERATIONAL..... Traitors...

Initial operational capability was attained on 21 May 2010. General Alexander was promoted to four-star rank, becoming one of 38 US Generals, and took charge of U.S. Cyber Command in a ceremony at Fort Meade that was attended by Commander of U.S. Central Command GEN David Petraeus, and Secretary of Defense Robert M. Gates.[20][21][22][23] USCYBERCOM reached full operational capability on 31 October 2010.[24]

The command assumed responsibility for several existing organizations. The Joint Task Force for Global Network Operations (JTF-GNO) and the Joint Functional Component Command for Network Warfare (JFCC-NW) were absorbed by the command. The Defense Information Systems Agency, where JTF-GNO operated, provides technical assistance for network and information assurance to USCYBERCOM, and is moving its headquarters to Ft. Meade

I'm doing this because I have to KNOW what's public knowledge. Because I was once a similiar contractor. And now I need ALL of you calling Snowden a traitor for those comments to tell me what was really learned in the HK paper versus what is PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE on the Wiki..

I hear the black vans arriving for the Wiki dudes right now...

 

[flacaltenn]

After all y'all are done telling me how traitorist that Wiki page is....

You can saunter over to the image section of google and SEE SOME OF OUR HACKING SPIES in action.. Probably KNOW some of them.. Along with beautiful shots of all that NEW and NICE hi tech gear we bought them..

Snowden COMPRISED our HACKING ABILITY???

Are you clowns fucking serious????????