So if a private business owner says one has to be vaxxed to work there

[Rye Catcher]

That's totally messed up. I'm self-employed so it doesn't affect me, and a hospital is somewhat in a grey zone, but Amazon or GM mandating an experimental drug to keep your job? Well, there go any Charter of rights and Freedom right onto the fire heap, might as well throw the whole Constitution in the garbage since there is no body autonomy anymore. I bet you want to outlaw abortion as well.

This post ^^^ is an example of the anti vaccine people using the excuse that the government hasn't yet made the final judgement on its safety. In most cases the anti vaccine people are distrustful of the government, crazy but typical of the hypocrites.

The millions of people who have taken Pfizer or Moderna provide probative evidence that the vaccines are safe. Claiming these vaccines are "experimental" is a hypothesis sans any probative evidence. Though one can't ever make the claim that these vaccines are perfect, any serious complications are few, and deaths or permanent maladies may have something to do with the persons DNA.

It's is science, btw, not some politician or tabloid's claim.

 

[JoeBlow]

This post ^^^ is an example of the anti vaccine people using the excuse that the government hasn't yet made the final judgement on its safety. In most cases the anti vaccine people are distrustful of the government, crazy but typical of the hypocrites.

The millions of people who have taken Pfizer or Moderna provide probative evidence that the vaccines are safe. Claiming these vaccines are "experimental" is a hypothesis sans any probative evidence. Though one can't ever make the claim that these vaccines are perfect, any serious complications are few, and deaths or permanent maladies may have something to do with the persons DNA.

It's is science, btw, not some politician or tabloid's claim.

It really doesn't matter if it's safe or not, what's at play here is my body, my choice. Just like abortion, the woman's body, her choice. To have McDonald's say that I have to inject myself with the flavour of the days, or even flavourS, is just absurd, and can't be happening in a free country.

 

[Rye Catcher]

It really doesn't matter if it's safe or not, what's at play here is my body, my choice. Just like abortion, the woman's body, her choice. To have McDonald's say that I have to inject myself with the flavour of the days, or even flavourS, is just absurd, and can't be happening in a free country.

Your ideology is your own, your potential to infect others is not. In fact the pretense that wearing a mask, keeping a social distance and washing hands often are advice, they along with taking a vaccination does not take away your freedom or liberty, yet.

We are in the 2nd year of a pandemic. If people like you continue to spread this disease, and Pols such as the Governor of Florida continue to take away defensive measures (school childrens' & Masks) time and the deaths of children will convince those on the fence to vote, and your party will go the way of The Whig Party.

"The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

 

[JoeBlow]

Your ideology is your own, your potential to infect others is not. In fact the pretense that wearing a mask, keeping a social distance and washing hands often are advice, they along with taking a vaccination does not take away your freedom or liberty, yet.

We are in the 2nd year of a pandemic. If people like you continue to spread this disease, and Pols such as the Governor of Florida continue to take away defensive measures (school childrens' & Masks) time and the deaths of children will convince those on the fence to vote, and your party will go the way of The Whig Party.

"The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

You're contagious with or without the vax.

Deaths of masses of children are hypothetical, and very unlikely.

Your personal fear should give you no rights over me. Or are you in China?

 

[Dragonlady]

There are good things and bad things about modern society, and you can't just accept them all as package deal.
It is the responsibility of each person to fight against the bad things.
Like Vietnam, the lies about WMD in Iraq, the War on Drugs, etc.

So where to the bad things come from?
The wealthy elite who control and demand more than their share or they deserve.
So Freyasman has a point.
Trying to stay out from under is the right thing to do.

He's not "trying to keep out from under", he's trying to free load off taxpayers. He wants the safety and security of a first world nation, for free. Without contributing anything.

Sorry, I am far left of you, but yet I think you are wrong.
Your covid beliefs for example, are all wrong.
The strategy of "flattening the curve" is wrong and anti science.
These are not real vaccines either, but stem cell monstrosities they have no idea what they will do.
And it is right wing when they are just trying to make profits off an epidemic like this.

Greece is not in trouble because no one is paying taxes, but because they spent badly and now have to pay too much interest.
People are all retiring at 50.
Brazil seems average as far as personal taxes, but does seem to have a low corporate tax.
{...
The applicable tax rate will vary from 4% to 17.42%, depending on the type of activity—industry, commerce, services, and so on.
...}

When you parrot right wing lies and bullshit, you lose all credibility. I say you'll end up like Brazil, and you parrot tax rates. I'm talking quality of life.

In Brazil, massive numbers of poor people live in crime infested barrios with little opportunity of escape - low quality schools, and a very stratified society. The middle class is barely scraping by, but the oligarchs live in gated communities in luxury. There are few social programs, taxes are low, and the government is strong on law and order and keeping leftists down.

 

[Rye Catcher]

You're contagious with or without the vax.

Deaths of masses of children are hypothetical, and very unlikely.

Your personal fear should give you no rights over me. Or are you in China?

It's people like you who are contagious with your fear mongering. No where did I state that I have taken your rights away! No where did I state with or without the vaccines someone can transmit the disease, nor did I state the vaccine was a panacea.

Your Libertarian ideology never has nor (IMO) will never compete with the Democratic Party. Your ideology is built on a foundation of Selfishness, I've read your platform:

Platform | Libertarian Party

As adopted by convention, May 2022, Sparks, Nevada. Download PDF

www.lp.org

"As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty: a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others....

"Individuals own their bodies and have rights over them that other individuals, groups, and governments may not violate. Individuals have the freedom and responsibility to decide what they knowingly and voluntarily consume, and what risks they accept to their own health, finances, safety, or life." Note that no notion of concern for others is of paramount concern in Libertarianism. And that seems to be your belief.

 

[marvin martian]

Most any ICU now.

Name five. State, city, and name of the hospital. This should be an easy one for you if "most any" ICU is affected.

 

[JoeBlow]

It's people like you who are contagious with your fear mongering. No where did I state that I have taken your rights away! No where did I state with or without the vaccines someone can transmit the disease, nor did I state the vaccine was a panacea.

Your Libertarian ideology never has nor (IMO) will never compete with the Democratic Party. Your ideology is built on a foundation of Selfishness, I've read your platform:

Platform | Libertarian Party

As adopted by convention, May 2022, Sparks, Nevada. Download PDF

www.lp.org

"As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty: a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others....

"Individuals own their bodies and have rights over them that other individuals, groups, and governments may not violate. Individuals have the freedom and responsibility to decide what they knowingly and voluntarily consume, and what risks they accept to their own health, finances, safety, or life." Note that no notion of concern for others is of paramount concern in Libertarianism. And that seems to be your belief.

I'm talking about being against McDonald's requiring you to inject something in your body to get a job. Wtf are you talking about?

 

[Rye Catcher]

I'm talking about being against McDonald's requiring you to inject something in your body to get a job. Wtf are you talking about?

Q. What am I talking about?

A. What I'm writing is my assessment of people like you. I do it in all honesty, and not to belittle you or others whose values are not mine.

 

[Rigby5]

Why are you trump people so ill informed?

If someone takes this to court they will lose.

It has already been to court.

A private hospital in Texas announced to their employees that they had to be vaccinated by June.

Some of the employees took the hospital to court.

The ronald reagan appointed conservative judge ruled in favor of the hospital. Saying yes, that hospital can require the vaccination or the employees can be fired if they don't get the vaccination.

That judge told the employees they are free to find employment elsewhere.

As soon as the judge's ruling was announced, that hospital fired 150 employees who refused to get vaccinated.

YOU LOSE.

This was in the news in June. Where were you?

Do try to keep up with current events. That way you won't show everyone just how down right stupid and ill informed you are.

Add to that, the Supreme Court ruled in 1905 that the government can require vaccinations. That case involved the small pox vaccination.

So no matter what you want, the government AND private business can mandate vaccinations.

One judge does not a conclusion make.
Hospitals have lots of money, so the local judge was likely influenced.
That won't be true on appeals.

{...
The Methodist employees appealed to the U.S. 5th Circuit Court of Appeals, and although it’s not clear how soon the court will hear the case, it’s already shaping up to become a national legal battle pitting personal medical freedom against public health.
...}

There are lots of valid religious and medical reasons why vaccines can not legally be mandated.

 

[Rigby5]

No it won't be allowed.

Harassing an employee is a crime.

Getting a vaccination IS NOT a crime.

Do you see the difference?

No, sexually harassing's an employee is not a crime, just sleazy.
Forcing a dangerous experimental vaccine that is not FDA approved is a crime, since there no science to justify it.

 

[Rigby5]

And the employer is perfectly free to fire their ass.

That's how freedom works.

Wrong.
If an employer does not say why they are firing someone, then it is legal.
But if they say why, and it is not legal, then the employer will have to pay up, big time.

 

[Rigby5]

Somebody who isn't vaxxed could pass it along to others who are or are not vaxxed and spread the pandemic, and that is what is happening now. If vaxxed, your chances are greatly improved.

No, vaxxed only decreases symptoms, not ability to get infected or pass it on.

 

[WEATHER53]

That is totally wrong.
The delta variant is slightly more infectious, but much less lethal, so fewer are being hospitalized than ever.
And the vaccine does not make you less likely to be infected, at all.
The only point you may have is that a person vaccinated may shed less virus?
But even that is just idle speculation.
Since the vaccinated will be less symptomatic, it is also more likely they will come to work even if infected, because they won't know it.

They keep inflating numbers via hospital “visits” being counted as hospital “stays”

 

[FA_Q2]

I've run in to many, many liberals, however, who see it differently. They believe that anti-discrimination laws exist to ensure that everyone is "treated equally". And that mindset is fueling the Trumpster's sudden enthusiasm for state intervention in such matters.

Broken clock and all.

 

[Rigby5]

The restaurant has the right to protect the safety of their customers. Go somewhere where vaxxes are not required, so that you can infect each other. Actually, you are politicizing the issue because it is simply common sense when even you can see what is happening to those who have not been vaccinated. Follow trump wherever he goes, yes?

That is stupid.
Vaccines do not reduce ability to be infected or spread.
And Trump was always pushing the vaccines, so his supported are vaccinated.
You are totally confused and ignorant.
It is the left who is against government mandates and big pharma.

 

[Rigby5]

As Anon once said, "anyone can sue a ham sandwich." An trump's lawyers and obsequious clowns tried 60 times and got tossed out by the Federal Court.

It should be easy to prove in court that the mandate is unreasonable since its not FDA approved.

 

[Rigby5]

Most any ICU now.

No ICU has ever been flooded with covid patients.
Delta is not as deadly, so have even fewer in the ICU.

 

[WEATHER53]

It can be a condition of new hires but not imposed on those already hired. It puts currently hired in an “or else” position and that’s illegal

 

[FA_Q2]

It's people like you who are contagious with your fear mongering. No where did I state that I have taken your rights away! No where did I state with or without the vaccines someone can transmit the disease, nor did I state the vaccine was a panacea.

Your Libertarian ideology never has nor (IMO) will never compete with the Democratic Party. Your ideology is built on a foundation of Selfishness, I've read your platform:

Platform | Libertarian Party

As adopted by convention, May 2022, Sparks, Nevada. Download PDF

www.lp.org

"As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty: a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others....

"Individuals own their bodies and have rights over them that other individuals, groups, and governments may not violate. Individuals have the freedom and responsibility to decide what they knowingly and voluntarily consume, and what risks they accept to their own health, finances, safety, or life." Note that no notion of concern for others is of paramount concern in Libertarianism. And that seems to be your belief.

A "notion of concern for others is of paramount concern" is not present in any political ideology. The idea that others are seeking power over you in a concern for you is a failed concept through all of history. It is bunk bullshit.

"My contention is that good men (not bad men) consistently acting upon that position [imposing “the good”] would act as cruelly and unjustly as the greatest tyrants. They might in some respects act even worse. Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under of robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber barons cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some points be satiated; but those who torment us for their own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
C.S. Lewis

This applies to the religious busybodies as much as to the atheistic ones. There is noting worse than the reasoning that a government needs to impose its will on the people for a 'collective' good. Millions end up starving under that rubric.