So what IS the best way to reduce or prevent mass shootings?

[candycorn]

Violence only begets more violence.

No, people who think they know better how you should live, than you do... and who want to disarm you so they can force their will on you (that is, modern liberals) beget more violence.

When the victims try to fight back and refuse disarmament, the resulting violence is not the victims' fault. It's still the liberals' fault, who tried to coerce them in the first place.

And the best way to reduce mass shootings, is still allowing everyone to carry. Most people still won't bother. But a few will. And the criminal knows that when he wants to shoot up a shopping mall or school, knows that a few adults in the crowd are probably carrying... and he won't know which ones they are. But he knows it's unlikely he'll be able to rack up the huge body counts he wants, to get weeks of lurid headlines after he's dead. And so he often will change his mind and not try. Without a shot being fired.

You can never eliminate all mass shootings 100%. But this is the best way to reduce them.

And the liberals are dead set against it. Even though they know the methods they are pushing, don't work.

Total nonsense.

If more guns made the public safer, the US would have the safest society by far since, by far, we have the highest number of guns in the hands of citizenry of any 1st world nation.

Instead, we have, by far, the highest homicide rate of any developed nation.

Meanwhile, nations that have passed strict gun control efforts have very few shootings compared to the United States.

Its vividly clear that they are doing something right and we are doing something wrong.

Those are the facts and they are not in dispute.

Actually, those nations were already less violent and had less gun violence before the confiscations and gun control...

And as more Americans own and carry guns our gun murder rate has gone down, not up......and after the confiscation in Britain violent crime increased.....they are twice as violent as the United States....

And again.....Europe murdered 12 million innocent men, women and children....all unarmed and helpless....so Europe isn't a model we should follow...

And again, 70% of all gun murder victims had criminal records and were shot committing crimes.....90% of shooters had at least one criminal conviction and 70% had at least 4....so normal people aren't shooting people....you have a criminal culture in America driven by the entertainment industry that you don't see over in Europe.

And Australia, Britain and Europe are getting more violent, not less violent...they are importing violent populations into their relatively non violent cultures...so their crime rates will be sky rocketing very soon....

Europe has the same movies, the same books, the same video games, the same stars, the same magazines as we do. You're incorrect and you know that.

The only difference is that we have a 2nd amendment that allows people to buy as many guns as they want and Europe has not. That is why they have a lower murder rate than we do.

 

[candycorn]

Violence only begets more violence.

No, people who think they know better how you should live, than you do... and who want to disarm you so they can force their will on you (that is, modern liberals) beget more violence.

When the victims try to fight back and refuse disarmament, the resulting violence is not the victims' fault. It's still the liberals' fault, who tried to coerce them in the first place.

And the best way to reduce mass shootings, is still allowing everyone to carry. Most people still won't bother. But a few will. And the criminal knows that when he wants to shoot up a shopping mall or school, knows that a few adults in the crowd are probably carrying... and he won't know which ones they are. But he knows it's unlikely he'll be able to rack up the huge body counts he wants, to get weeks of lurid headlines after he's dead. And so he often will change his mind and not try. Without a shot being fired.

You can never eliminate all mass shootings 100%. But this is the best way to reduce them.

And the liberals are dead set against it. Even though they know the methods they are pushing, don't work.

Total nonsense.

If more guns made the public safer, the US would have the safest society by far since, by far, we have the highest number of guns in the hands of citizenry of any 1st world nation.

Instead, we have, by far, the highest homicide rate of any developed nation.

Meanwhile, nations that have passed strict gun control efforts have very few shootings compared to the United States.

Its vividly clear that they are doing something right and we are doing something wrong.

Those are the facts and they are not in dispute.

and another thing....according to bill clinton and the study he commissioned, Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives 1.5 million times a year......

so....

Gun murder in 2014.... 8,124

Guns used to stop crime..... 1..5 million, according to bill clinton

So guns, by far, stop more crime and save more lives than they take.....

And remember as well......European criminals and Australian criminals can get guns whenever they want them....it is as easy for them to get guns as it is for American criminals to get guns...they just don't use them as much...but they use them when the want to use them and they have had confiscation and extreme gun control in Europe...and it hasn't worked either.....

Again, you cannot walk into a store and buy a gun in Europe as you can here.
You're lying. And you know it.

 

[2aguy]

Violence only begets more violence.

No, people who think they know better how you should live, than you do... and who want to disarm you so they can force their will on you (that is, modern liberals) beget more violence.

When the victims try to fight back and refuse disarmament, the resulting violence is not the victims' fault. It's still the liberals' fault, who tried to coerce them in the first place.

And the best way to reduce mass shootings, is still allowing everyone to carry. Most people still won't bother. But a few will. And the criminal knows that when he wants to shoot up a shopping mall or school, knows that a few adults in the crowd are probably carrying... and he won't know which ones they are. But he knows it's unlikely he'll be able to rack up the huge body counts he wants, to get weeks of lurid headlines after he's dead. And so he often will change his mind and not try. Without a shot being fired.

You can never eliminate all mass shootings 100%. But this is the best way to reduce them.

And the liberals are dead set against it. Even though they know the methods they are pushing, don't work.

Total nonsense.

If more guns made the public safer, the US would have the safest society by far since, by far, we have the highest number of guns in the hands of citizenry of any 1st world nation.

Instead, we have, by far, the highest homicide rate of any developed nation.

Meanwhile, nations that have passed strict gun control efforts have very few shootings compared to the United States.

Its vividly clear that they are doing something right and we are doing something wrong.

Those are the facts and they are not in dispute.

Actually, those nations were already less violent and had less gun violence before the confiscations and gun control...

And as more Americans own and carry guns our gun murder rate has gone down, not up......and after the confiscation in Britain violent crime increased.....they are twice as violent as the United States....

And again.....Europe murdered 12 million innocent men, women and children....all unarmed and helpless....so Europe isn't a model we should follow...

And again, 70% of all gun murder victims had criminal records and were shot committing crimes.....90% of shooters had at least one criminal conviction and 70% had at least 4....so normal people aren't shooting people....you have a criminal culture in America driven by the entertainment industry that you don't see over in Europe.

And Australia, Britain and Europe are getting more violent, not less violent...they are importing violent populations into their relatively non violent cultures...so their crime rates will be sky rocketing very soon....

Europe has the same movies, the same books, the same video games, the same stars, the same magazines as we do. You're incorrect and you know that.

The only difference is that we have a 2nd amendment that allows people to buy as many guns as they want and Europe has not. That is why they have a lower murder rate than we do.

Nope...wrong again. Our criminals are using guns to shoot people....not our normal gun owners. Their criminals get guns just as easily as ours do, in fact, they prefer the fully auto military rifles and grenades while our criminals prefer pistols...a cultural difference.......

70% of shooting victims are killed in the commission of a criminal act......90% of shooters have at least one prior conviction and 70% of shooters have at least 4 prior convictions....

Normal gun owners do not shoot other people...our criminals do...and most of those shootings occur in tiny, multi block areas in our democrat controlled cities....the rest of the country, with guns, is as peaceful as Europe....

in 2014 there were 8,124 gun murders....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands....

So 319,991,876 guns were not used by normal gun owners to commit murder....


Over 13 million people now carry guns for self defense......so that means that those 8,124 gun murders are not committed by people with concealed carry permits...since criminals don't get permits to carry their guns....

And it has been found by actual research, not pulling the feelings out of one's ass, that Concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than the rest of the population, and more law abiding than police officers.....

So you are wrong.....

And according to bill clinton....Americans use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...

8,124 gun murders


1.5 million crimes stopped

Can you tell which number is bigger?

 

[2aguy]

Violence only begets more violence.

No, people who think they know better how you should live, than you do... and who want to disarm you so they can force their will on you (that is, modern liberals) beget more violence.

When the victims try to fight back and refuse disarmament, the resulting violence is not the victims' fault. It's still the liberals' fault, who tried to coerce them in the first place.

And the best way to reduce mass shootings, is still allowing everyone to carry. Most people still won't bother. But a few will. And the criminal knows that when he wants to shoot up a shopping mall or school, knows that a few adults in the crowd are probably carrying... and he won't know which ones they are. But he knows it's unlikely he'll be able to rack up the huge body counts he wants, to get weeks of lurid headlines after he's dead. And so he often will change his mind and not try. Without a shot being fired.

You can never eliminate all mass shootings 100%. But this is the best way to reduce them.

And the liberals are dead set against it. Even though they know the methods they are pushing, don't work.

Total nonsense.

If more guns made the public safer, the US would have the safest society by far since, by far, we have the highest number of guns in the hands of citizenry of any 1st world nation.

Instead, we have, by far, the highest homicide rate of any developed nation.

Meanwhile, nations that have passed strict gun control efforts have very few shootings compared to the United States.

Its vividly clear that they are doing something right and we are doing something wrong.

Those are the facts and they are not in dispute.

and another thing....according to bill clinton and the study he commissioned, Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives 1.5 million times a year......

so....

Gun murder in 2014.... 8,124

Guns used to stop crime..... 1..5 million, according to bill clinton

So guns, by far, stop more crime and save more lives than they take.....

And remember as well......European criminals and Australian criminals can get guns whenever they want them....it is as easy for them to get guns as it is for American criminals to get guns...they just don't use them as much...but they use them when the want to use them and they have had confiscation and extreme gun control in Europe...and it hasn't worked either.....

Again, you cannot walk into a store and buy a gun in Europe as you can here.
You're lying. And you know it.

British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack



Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.

Liam Lyburd, 19, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was sentenced to life imprisonment this week on eight charges of possessing weapons with intent to endanger life.

As noted by the BBC, Lyburd gathered a cache that included a Glock 19, three 33-round magazines, 94 hollow-point bullets, CS gas, five pipe bombs and two other improvised explosive devices despite the country’s long history of civilian arms control.

According to court documents, Lyburd planned to use the weapons in an attack on Newcastle College, from which he had been expelled two years prior for poor attendance. He was arrested last November after two Northumbria Police constables visited him at his home on a tip from an individual who encountered threats and disturbing pictures posted by Lyburd online.

Despite a defense that portrayed the reclusive man as living in a fantasy world, Lyburd was found guilty in July.

The internet-savvy teen obtained the Glock and other items through Evolution Marketplace, a successor to the Silk Road, a long-time “dark web” site in which users could buy and sell everything from illegal narcotics to munitions using Bitcoin cryptocurrency.

In court, Lyburd testified that buying the Glock was so easy it was “like buying a bar of chocolate.”

He obtained funds for his purchases through a complex extortion scheme in which he used online malware to infect computers, which he in turn held for ransom from their owners.

 

[2aguy]

Violence only begets more violence.

No, people who think they know better how you should live, than you do... and who want to disarm you so they can force their will on you (that is, modern liberals) beget more violence.

When the victims try to fight back and refuse disarmament, the resulting violence is not the victims' fault. It's still the liberals' fault, who tried to coerce them in the first place.

And the best way to reduce mass shootings, is still allowing everyone to carry. Most people still won't bother. But a few will. And the criminal knows that when he wants to shoot up a shopping mall or school, knows that a few adults in the crowd are probably carrying... and he won't know which ones they are. But he knows it's unlikely he'll be able to rack up the huge body counts he wants, to get weeks of lurid headlines after he's dead. And so he often will change his mind and not try. Without a shot being fired.

You can never eliminate all mass shootings 100%. But this is the best way to reduce them.

And the liberals are dead set against it. Even though they know the methods they are pushing, don't work.

Total nonsense.

If more guns made the public safer, the US would have the safest society by far since, by far, we have the highest number of guns in the hands of citizenry of any 1st world nation.

Instead, we have, by far, the highest homicide rate of any developed nation.

Meanwhile, nations that have passed strict gun control efforts have very few shootings compared to the United States.

Its vividly clear that they are doing something right and we are doing something wrong.

Those are the facts and they are not in dispute.

and another thing....according to bill clinton and the study he commissioned, Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives 1.5 million times a year......

so....

Gun murder in 2014.... 8,124

Guns used to stop crime..... 1..5 million, according to bill clinton

So guns, by far, stop more crime and save more lives than they take.....

And remember as well......European criminals and Australian criminals can get guns whenever they want them....it is as easy for them to get guns as it is for American criminals to get guns...they just don't use them as much...but they use them when the want to use them and they have had confiscation and extreme gun control in Europe...and it hasn't worked either.....

Again, you cannot walk into a store and buy a gun in Europe as you can here.
You're lying. And you know it.

Law abiding citizens in Europe can't buy guns in gun stores in Europe....criminals can't buy guns in American Gu stores either...but criminals in both countries still get the guns they want and need.....

Don't believe me, ask the European police....

This story tracks gun smuggling in Europe.....lots of it....

European Police Face Being Outgunned by Jihadists With Assault Rifles

But although the police quickly traced the weapons source in the Paris attacks, stopping criminals and other jihadist cells in Europe from acquiring assault weapons for further attacks might not be so easy, according to police officials.
---------
French police believe rifles are on sale in French cities for between €1,000 and €1,500. Earlier this month, Philippe Capon, head of the French police union UNSA, told Bloomberg News, “The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms.” A French police source told TIME that the weapons from the Charlie Hebdoattack came from the Balkans.

That is not the only source of weaponry. Donald says he fears that the continent might be facing a fresh influx of weapons from North Africa in the wake of the Arab Spring revolts. In August, 2011, Libyan rebels looted large quantities of mortars, tank shells and other munitions when Moammar Gaddafi’s regime collapsed. Although most of those weapons are believed to have filtered across North and West Africa, some could also have made their way to Europe.

The arms traffickers have flourished in the absence of well-financed antiweapons units in Europe, where law enforcement has for years tended to plow money into stopping drug-dealing and other crimes. “We don’t fully understand the scale of the problem because we have not had specialized units,” says Donald, referring to law-enforcement agencies in different E.U. countries. “It is a question of priorities. Any police officer will tell you it [resources] is a constant struggle.”

The trade in illegal weapons can earn enormous profits for organized criminal gangs — enough to make the risk of capture worthwhile. Donald says recent investigations have found arms traffickers investing about €30,000 in a shipment of Balkan-era weapons, refurbishing them in their garages, then selling them for them for about 10 times the price. “That’s a huge mark-up,” he says.

As Europe struggles to crack down on illegal weapons, some police recruits face a new training exercise: Go buy a Kalashnikov rifle. Donald says that in “a city in Europe,” which he would not name, “very young officers with no training or experience” were recently told to go find an assault weapon on the streets from an illegal arms dealer. “One came back two hours later with an AK-47,” Donald says. “He bought it for €1,000.”

 

[candycorn]

Violence only begets more violence.

No, people who think they know better how you should live, than you do... and who want to disarm you so they can force their will on you (that is, modern liberals) beget more violence.

When the victims try to fight back and refuse disarmament, the resulting violence is not the victims' fault. It's still the liberals' fault, who tried to coerce them in the first place.

And the best way to reduce mass shootings, is still allowing everyone to carry. Most people still won't bother. But a few will. And the criminal knows that when he wants to shoot up a shopping mall or school, knows that a few adults in the crowd are probably carrying... and he won't know which ones they are. But he knows it's unlikely he'll be able to rack up the huge body counts he wants, to get weeks of lurid headlines after he's dead. And so he often will change his mind and not try. Without a shot being fired.

You can never eliminate all mass shootings 100%. But this is the best way to reduce them.

And the liberals are dead set against it. Even though they know the methods they are pushing, don't work.

Total nonsense.

If more guns made the public safer, the US would have the safest society by far since, by far, we have the highest number of guns in the hands of citizenry of any 1st world nation.

Instead, we have, by far, the highest homicide rate of any developed nation.

Meanwhile, nations that have passed strict gun control efforts have very few shootings compared to the United States.

Its vividly clear that they are doing something right and we are doing something wrong.

Those are the facts and they are not in dispute.

Actually, those nations were already less violent and had less gun violence before the confiscations and gun control...

And as more Americans own and carry guns our gun murder rate has gone down, not up......and after the confiscation in Britain violent crime increased.....they are twice as violent as the United States....

And again.....Europe murdered 12 million innocent men, women and children....all unarmed and helpless....so Europe isn't a model we should follow...

And again, 70% of all gun murder victims had criminal records and were shot committing crimes.....90% of shooters had at least one criminal conviction and 70% had at least 4....so normal people aren't shooting people....you have a criminal culture in America driven by the entertainment industry that you don't see over in Europe.

And Australia, Britain and Europe are getting more violent, not less violent...they are importing violent populations into their relatively non violent cultures...so their crime rates will be sky rocketing very soon....

Europe has the same movies, the same books, the same video games, the same stars, the same magazines as we do. You're incorrect and you know that.

The only difference is that we have a 2nd amendment that allows people to buy as many guns as they want and Europe has not. That is why they have a lower murder rate than we do.

Nope...wrong again. Our criminals are using guns to shoot people....not our normal gun owners. Their criminals get guns just as easily as ours do, in fact, they prefer the fully auto military rifles and grenades while our criminals prefer pistols...a cultural difference.......

70% of shooting victims are killed in the commission of a criminal act......90% of shooters have at least one prior conviction and 70% of shooters have at least 4 prior convictions....

Normal gun owners do not shoot other people...our criminals do...and most of those shootings occur in tiny, multi block areas in our democrat controlled cities....the rest of the country, with guns, is as peaceful as Europe....

in 2014 there were 8,124 gun murders....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands....

So 319,991,876 guns were not used by normal gun owners to commit murder....


Over 13 million people now carry guns for self defense......so that means that those 8,124 gun murders are not committed by people with concealed carry permits...since criminals don't get permits to carry their guns....

And it has been found by actual research, not pulling the feelings out of one's ass, that Concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than the rest of the population, and more law abiding than police officers.....

So you are wrong.....

And according to bill clinton....Americans use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...

8,124 gun murders


1.5 million crimes stopped

Can you tell which number is bigger?

Your stats are garbage; it's been proven over and over again. You can tell they are garbage by how they are always perfectly rounded (70%, 90%, 1.5 million....).

Wasn't it 2,000,000 violent crimes prevented when you first started telling that lie? What happened to the other 500,000 so-called preventions?

And the stat was that "violent crimes" were prevented. Which leads to the question how do you know there was going to be a violent crime (or a crime at all) if it was prevented?

Please amuse us all and, for once, back up your lie. If you can't will you kindly shut the fuck up?

 

[2aguy]

Violence only begets more violence.

No, people who think they know better how you should live, than you do... and who want to disarm you so they can force their will on you (that is, modern liberals) beget more violence.

When the victims try to fight back and refuse disarmament, the resulting violence is not the victims' fault. It's still the liberals' fault, who tried to coerce them in the first place.

And the best way to reduce mass shootings, is still allowing everyone to carry. Most people still won't bother. But a few will. And the criminal knows that when he wants to shoot up a shopping mall or school, knows that a few adults in the crowd are probably carrying... and he won't know which ones they are. But he knows it's unlikely he'll be able to rack up the huge body counts he wants, to get weeks of lurid headlines after he's dead. And so he often will change his mind and not try. Without a shot being fired.

You can never eliminate all mass shootings 100%. But this is the best way to reduce them.

And the liberals are dead set against it. Even though they know the methods they are pushing, don't work.

Total nonsense.

If more guns made the public safer, the US would have the safest society by far since, by far, we have the highest number of guns in the hands of citizenry of any 1st world nation.

Instead, we have, by far, the highest homicide rate of any developed nation.

Meanwhile, nations that have passed strict gun control efforts have very few shootings compared to the United States.

Its vividly clear that they are doing something right and we are doing something wrong.

Those are the facts and they are not in dispute.

and another thing....according to bill clinton and the study he commissioned, Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives 1.5 million times a year......

so....

Gun murder in 2014.... 8,124

Guns used to stop crime..... 1..5 million, according to bill clinton

So guns, by far, stop more crime and save more lives than they take.....

And remember as well......European criminals and Australian criminals can get guns whenever they want them....it is as easy for them to get guns as it is for American criminals to get guns...they just don't use them as much...but they use them when the want to use them and they have had confiscation and extreme gun control in Europe...and it hasn't worked either.....

Again, you cannot walk into a store and buy a gun in Europe as you can here.
You're lying. And you know it.

And again..criminals can't walk into gun stores in America and buy guns......

Getting a gun legally in Europe may be hard, but terrorists have little trouble


In contrast with the free-firing United States, Europe is generally seen as a haven from serious gun violence. Here in Denmark, handguns and semiautomatic rifles are all but banned. Hunting rifles are legally available only to those with squeaky-clean backgrounds who have passed a rigorous exam covering everything from gun safety to the mating habits of Denmark’s wildlife.

“There’s a book about 1,000 pages thick,” said Tonni Rigby, one of only two licensed firearms dealers in Copenhagen. “You have to know all of it.”


But if you want an illicit assault rifle, such as the one used by a 22-year-old to rake a Copenhagen cafe with 28 bullets on Saturday, all it takes are a few connections and some cash.

“It’s very easy to get such a weapon,” said Hans Jorgen Bonnichsen, a former operations director for the Danish security service PET. “It’s not only a problem for Denmark. It’s a problem for all of Europe.”

 

[Geaux4it]

Violence only begets more violence.

No, people who think they know better how you should live, than you do... and who want to disarm you so they can force their will on you (that is, modern liberals) beget more violence.

When the victims try to fight back and refuse disarmament, the resulting violence is not the victims' fault. It's still the liberals' fault, who tried to coerce them in the first place.

And the best way to reduce mass shootings, is still allowing everyone to carry. Most people still won't bother. But a few will. And the criminal knows that when he wants to shoot up a shopping mall or school, knows that a few adults in the crowd are probably carrying... and he won't know which ones they are. But he knows it's unlikely he'll be able to rack up the huge body counts he wants, to get weeks of lurid headlines after he's dead. And so he often will change his mind and not try. Without a shot being fired.

You can never eliminate all mass shootings 100%. But this is the best way to reduce them.

And the liberals are dead set against it. Even though they know the methods they are pushing, don't work.

Total nonsense.

If more guns made the public safer, the US would have the safest society by far since, by far, we have the highest number of guns in the hands of citizenry of any 1st world nation.

Instead, we have, by far, the highest homicide rate of any developed nation.

Meanwhile, nations that have passed strict gun control efforts have very few shootings compared to the United States.

Its vividly clear that they are doing something right and we are doing something wrong.

Those are the facts and they are not in dispute.

Actually, those nations were already less violent and had less gun violence before the confiscations and gun control...

And as more Americans own and carry guns our gun murder rate has gone down, not up......and after the confiscation in Britain violent crime increased.....they are twice as violent as the United States....

And again.....Europe murdered 12 million innocent men, women and children....all unarmed and helpless....so Europe isn't a model we should follow...

And again, 70% of all gun murder victims had criminal records and were shot committing crimes.....90% of shooters had at least one criminal conviction and 70% had at least 4....so normal people aren't shooting people....you have a criminal culture in America driven by the entertainment industry that you don't see over in Europe.

And Australia, Britain and Europe are getting more violent, not less violent...they are importing violent populations into their relatively non violent cultures...so their crime rates will be sky rocketing very soon....

Europe has the same movies, the same books, the same video games, the same stars, the same magazines as we do. You're incorrect and you know that.

The only difference is that we have a 2nd amendment that allows people to buy as many guns as they want and Europe has not. That is why they have a lower murder rate than we do.

What is wrong with owing a 'bunch of guns'?

-Geaux

 

[2aguy]

No, people who think they know better how you should live, than you do... and who want to disarm you so they can force their will on you (that is, modern liberals) beget more violence.

When the victims try to fight back and refuse disarmament, the resulting violence is not the victims' fault. It's still the liberals' fault, who tried to coerce them in the first place.

And the best way to reduce mass shootings, is still allowing everyone to carry. Most people still won't bother. But a few will. And the criminal knows that when he wants to shoot up a shopping mall or school, knows that a few adults in the crowd are probably carrying... and he won't know which ones they are. But he knows it's unlikely he'll be able to rack up the huge body counts he wants, to get weeks of lurid headlines after he's dead. And so he often will change his mind and not try. Without a shot being fired.

You can never eliminate all mass shootings 100%. But this is the best way to reduce them.

And the liberals are dead set against it. Even though they know the methods they are pushing, don't work.

Total nonsense.

If more guns made the public safer, the US would have the safest society by far since, by far, we have the highest number of guns in the hands of citizenry of any 1st world nation.

Instead, we have, by far, the highest homicide rate of any developed nation.

Meanwhile, nations that have passed strict gun control efforts have very few shootings compared to the United States.

Its vividly clear that they are doing something right and we are doing something wrong.

Those are the facts and they are not in dispute.

Actually, those nations were already less violent and had less gun violence before the confiscations and gun control...

And as more Americans own and carry guns our gun murder rate has gone down, not up......and after the confiscation in Britain violent crime increased.....they are twice as violent as the United States....

And again.....Europe murdered 12 million innocent men, women and children....all unarmed and helpless....so Europe isn't a model we should follow...

And again, 70% of all gun murder victims had criminal records and were shot committing crimes.....90% of shooters had at least one criminal conviction and 70% had at least 4....so normal people aren't shooting people....you have a criminal culture in America driven by the entertainment industry that you don't see over in Europe.

And Australia, Britain and Europe are getting more violent, not less violent...they are importing violent populations into their relatively non violent cultures...so their crime rates will be sky rocketing very soon....

Europe has the same movies, the same books, the same video games, the same stars, the same magazines as we do. You're incorrect and you know that.

The only difference is that we have a 2nd amendment that allows people to buy as many guns as they want and Europe has not. That is why they have a lower murder rate than we do.

Nope...wrong again. Our criminals are using guns to shoot people....not our normal gun owners. Their criminals get guns just as easily as ours do, in fact, they prefer the fully auto military rifles and grenades while our criminals prefer pistols...a cultural difference.......

70% of shooting victims are killed in the commission of a criminal act......90% of shooters have at least one prior conviction and 70% of shooters have at least 4 prior convictions....

Normal gun owners do not shoot other people...our criminals do...and most of those shootings occur in tiny, multi block areas in our democrat controlled cities....the rest of the country, with guns, is as peaceful as Europe....

in 2014 there were 8,124 gun murders....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands....

So 319,991,876 guns were not used by normal gun owners to commit murder....


Over 13 million people now carry guns for self defense......so that means that those 8,124 gun murders are not committed by people with concealed carry permits...since criminals don't get permits to carry their guns....

And it has been found by actual research, not pulling the feelings out of one's ass, that Concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than the rest of the population, and more law abiding than police officers.....

So you are wrong.....

And according to bill clinton....Americans use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...

8,124 gun murders


1.5 million crimes stopped

Can you tell which number is bigger?

Your stats are garbage; it's been proven over and over again. You can tell they are garbage by how they are always perfectly rounded (70%, 90%, 1.5 million....).

Wasn't it 2,000,000 violent crimes prevented when you first started telling that lie? What happened to the other 500,000 so-called preventions?

And the stat was that "violent crimes" were prevented. Which leads to the question how do you know there was going to be a violent crime (or a crime at all) if it was prevented?

Please amuse us all and, for once, back up your lie. If you can't will you kindly shut the fuck up?

Here you go dipstick....the fact that most shooters and victims of gun murder are criminals...

Most murder victims in big cities have criminal record

A review of murder statistics across America shows that in many large cities, up to 90 percent of the victims have criminal records.
-------
The report concludes that “of the 2011 homicide victims, 77 percent (66) had a least one prior arrest and of the known 2011 homicide suspects 90 percent (74) had at least one prior arrest.”
----------


In early 2012, after pressure put on the police by murder victims’ families in New Orleans, the police department stopped revealing whether or not the murder victim had a prior record.

---------------

Though data is no longer published in Baltimore, USA Today reported in 2007 that 91 percent of the then-205 murder victims in the city between Jan. 1 and Aug. 31, 2007, had criminal records.

---------
A WND review of the Philadelphia Police Department Murder and Shooting Analysis for 2011 shows a similar pattern to that of other large cities in America – a majority of the murder victims have prior records.



--------
In Philadelphia in 2011, of 324 murders, 81 percent (263) of the victims had at least one prior arrest; 62 percent (164) had been arrested for a violent crime prior to their murder.

----------

In Newark, N.J., long considered one of America’s most dangerous cities, 85 percent of the 165 murder victims between 2009 and 2010 had serious arrest histories.

Anthony Braga, a professor with the Rutgers-Newark School of Criminal Justice, told the Newark Star-Ledger that 85 percent of 165 murder victims in Newark between 2009 and 2010 had been arrested at least once before they were killed.

Those victims, he said, had, on average, 10 prior arrests on their criminal records.

A WND review of the Chicago Police Department Murder Analysis reports from 2003 to 2011 provides a statistical breakdown of the demographics of both the victims and offenders in the 4,265 murders in Chicago over that time period.

Of the victims of murder in Chicago from 2003 to 2011, an average of 77 percent had a prior arrest history, with a high of 79 percent of the 436 murdered in Chicago in 2010 having arrest histories.



***************
*****************
Public Health Pot Shots

this article goes at kellerman extensively and his crap research.....and here is some work on who actually kills people...


These and other studies funded by the CDC focus on the presence or absence of guns, rather than the characteristics of the people who use them. Indeed, the CDC's Rosenberg claims in the journalEducational Horizons that murderers are "ourselves--ordinary citizens, professionals, even health care workers": people who kill only because a gun happens to be available.

Yet if there is one fact that has been incontestably established by homicide studies, it's that murderers are not ordinary gun owners but extreme aberrants whose life histories include drug abuse, serious accidents, felonies, and irrational violence. Unlike "ourselves," roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have significant criminal records, averaging an adult criminal career of six or more years with four major felonies.

Access to juvenile records would almost certainly show that the criminal careers of murderers stretch back into their adolescence. In Murder in America (1994), the criminologists Ronald W. Holmes and Stephen T. Holmes report that murderers generally "have histories of committing personal violence in childhood, against other children, siblings, and small animals." Murderers who don't have criminal records usually have histories of psychiatric treatment or domestic violence that did not lead to arrest.

Contrary to the impression fostered by Rosenberg and other opponents of gun ownership, the term "acquaintance homicide" does not mean killings that stem from ordinary family or neighborhood arguments. Typical acquaintance homicides include: an abusive man eventually killing a woman he has repeatedly assaulted; a drug user killing a dealer (or vice versa) in a robbery attempt; and gang members, drug dealers, and other criminals killing each other for reasons of economic rivalry or personal pique. According to a 1993 article in the Journal of Trauma, 80 percent of murders in Washington, D.C., are related to the drug trade, while "84% of [Philadelphia murder] victims in 1990 had antemortem drug use or criminal history." A 1994 article in The New England Journal of Medicinereported that 71 percent of Los Angeles children and adolescents injured in drive-by shootings "were documented members of violent street gangs." And University of North Carolina-Charlotte criminal justice scholars Richard Lumb and Paul C. Friday report that 71 percent of adult gunshot wound victims in Charlotte have criminal records.



Gangs in Fort Meyers Florida...



NBC2 Investigates: Gangs in Southwest Florida



The City of Fort Myers has been plagued with violence and murder. NBC2 Investigator Dave Elias dug deeper and found that drugs, crime and gangs are the common elements between those killings.

Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott says the three go hand-in-hand and all appear to be playing a big role in the city's crime problem.

"They're punks. They're criminals. And in most cases – cowards," said Sheriff Scott.

He also explained that gang members live by a much different set of rules.

"We're at a more violent time right now than at any time I recall," said Sheriff Scott. "You're talking about an area that - per capita - is on par with Detroit Michigan, in terms of homicides."

There were 25 murders in Fort Myers alone last year. And Sheriff Scott says all of the killings have those three things in common – drugs, crime and gangs.

"In most every case this is criminal killing criminal. This is bad guy on bad guy," he said.

 

[2aguy]

No, people who think they know better how you should live, than you do... and who want to disarm you so they can force their will on you (that is, modern liberals) beget more violence.

When the victims try to fight back and refuse disarmament, the resulting violence is not the victims' fault. It's still the liberals' fault, who tried to coerce them in the first place.

And the best way to reduce mass shootings, is still allowing everyone to carry. Most people still won't bother. But a few will. And the criminal knows that when he wants to shoot up a shopping mall or school, knows that a few adults in the crowd are probably carrying... and he won't know which ones they are. But he knows it's unlikely he'll be able to rack up the huge body counts he wants, to get weeks of lurid headlines after he's dead. And so he often will change his mind and not try. Without a shot being fired.

You can never eliminate all mass shootings 100%. But this is the best way to reduce them.

And the liberals are dead set against it. Even though they know the methods they are pushing, don't work.

Total nonsense.

If more guns made the public safer, the US would have the safest society by far since, by far, we have the highest number of guns in the hands of citizenry of any 1st world nation.

Instead, we have, by far, the highest homicide rate of any developed nation.

Meanwhile, nations that have passed strict gun control efforts have very few shootings compared to the United States.

Its vividly clear that they are doing something right and we are doing something wrong.

Those are the facts and they are not in dispute.

Actually, those nations were already less violent and had less gun violence before the confiscations and gun control...

And as more Americans own and carry guns our gun murder rate has gone down, not up......and after the confiscation in Britain violent crime increased.....they are twice as violent as the United States....

And again.....Europe murdered 12 million innocent men, women and children....all unarmed and helpless....so Europe isn't a model we should follow...

And again, 70% of all gun murder victims had criminal records and were shot committing crimes.....90% of shooters had at least one criminal conviction and 70% had at least 4....so normal people aren't shooting people....you have a criminal culture in America driven by the entertainment industry that you don't see over in Europe.

And Australia, Britain and Europe are getting more violent, not less violent...they are importing violent populations into their relatively non violent cultures...so their crime rates will be sky rocketing very soon....

Europe has the same movies, the same books, the same video games, the same stars, the same magazines as we do. You're incorrect and you know that.

The only difference is that we have a 2nd amendment that allows people to buy as many guns as they want and Europe has not. That is why they have a lower murder rate than we do.

Nope...wrong again. Our criminals are using guns to shoot people....not our normal gun owners. Their criminals get guns just as easily as ours do, in fact, they prefer the fully auto military rifles and grenades while our criminals prefer pistols...a cultural difference.......

70% of shooting victims are killed in the commission of a criminal act......90% of shooters have at least one prior conviction and 70% of shooters have at least 4 prior convictions....

Normal gun owners do not shoot other people...our criminals do...and most of those shootings occur in tiny, multi block areas in our democrat controlled cities....the rest of the country, with guns, is as peaceful as Europe....

in 2014 there were 8,124 gun murders....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands....

So 319,991,876 guns were not used by normal gun owners to commit murder....


Over 13 million people now carry guns for self defense......so that means that those 8,124 gun murders are not committed by people with concealed carry permits...since criminals don't get permits to carry their guns....

And it has been found by actual research, not pulling the feelings out of one's ass, that Concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than the rest of the population, and more law abiding than police officers.....

So you are wrong.....

And according to bill clinton....Americans use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...

8,124 gun murders


1.5 million crimes stopped

Can you tell which number is bigger?

Your stats are garbage; it's been proven over and over again. You can tell they are garbage by how they are always perfectly rounded (70%, 90%, 1.5 million....).

Wasn't it 2,000,000 violent crimes prevented when you first started telling that lie? What happened to the other 500,000 so-called preventions?

And the stat was that "violent crimes" were prevented. Which leads to the question how do you know there was going to be a violent crime (or a crime at all) if it was prevented?

Please amuse us all and, for once, back up your lie. If you can't will you kindly shut the fuck up?

And more research showing that gun crime in America is coming from actual criminals....not normal gun owners....

Richmond, CA Anti-Crime Program Focuses On People, Not Guns...And It's Working - The Truth About Guns

Boggan explained in a story that aired on This American Life earlier this year that his ‘aha’ moment in designing this program came when he was in a meeting with police officers who explained to him that they believed that seventeen guys were responsible for 70% of the shootings in the city of Richmond.

Devone Boggan: “17 people. And I’ll tell you, I almost flipped out of my chair. Cause I was like, 17 people? That’s nothing.”

Boggan realized that if they could reach just those 17 guys and get them to change, they could really make a dent in the problem. He asked the police for a list of those 17 names. He did his own research and added more names. To get on that list, Boggan said, you basically had to have shot someone.



*************************************
Blog: Who gets shot in Chicago?

Sooooo...Chicago had an estimated population of 2,718,782....in 2013.....and from this study....

About 70 percent of the killings occurred in what Papachristos found was a social network of only about 1,600 people — out of a population of about 80,000 in those neighborhoods.


So 1600 people out of 2,718,782 commit 70% of all gun crime........in one small area of this city.....let alone who knows about the other gang infested tiny areas......

And the irrational, anti gunners think that guns are the problem.......who are the real nuts....?

The article from the Sun Tims....

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news-chicago/7/71/303579/study-shows-likelihood-being-shot-in-chicago
Only 6 percent of the people in Chicago between 2006 and 2012 were listed on arrest reports as co-offenders in crimes, the study says. But those people became the victims of 70 percent of the nonfatal shootings in the city over the same period.

-------






The study, called “Tragic, but not random: The social contagion of nonfatal gunshot injuries,” was published in the January 2015 issue of Social Science & Medicine. It shows the risk of becoming a gunshot victim in Chicago is “more concentrated than previously thought,” according to Andrew Papachristos, one of the authors.

---

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news-chicago/7/71/303579/study-shows-likelihood-being-shot-in-chicago

The latest Yale University study was built on Papachristos’ previous social-network research into murders on the West Side. He had studied killings between 2005 and 2010 in West Garfield Park and North Lawndale. About 70 percent of the killings occurred in what Papachristos found was a social network of only about 1,600 people — out of a population of about 80,000 in those neighborhoods. Inside that social network, the risk of being killed was 30 out of 1,000. For the others in those neighborhoods, the risk of getting murdered was less than one in 1,000.

Papachristos said his team has been doing similar social network research in Boston; Cincinnati; Newark; New Haven, Conn.; East Palo Alto, Calif.; Stockton, Calif.; and other cities.

“You are also seeing a clustering of victims in small networks there,” he said. “We’re seeing a pattern.”

The Chicago Police Department is employing social network strategy in several ways.

Since 2010, Chicago Police officials, prosecutors and community leaders have organized meetings with members of opposing gang factions after murders are committed in their neighborhoods. Many of those gang members called to the meetings are on parole or probation and are required to show up. According to the police department’s guidelines for such “call-ins”: “The general message conveyed is, ‘We will help you if you will let us, but we will stop you if you make us.’ There will be a clear message that the group will be dismantled if they do not comply.”

Papachristos said he’s getting ready to release a study on the effectiveness of call-ins in Chicago. He would not provide details, but said: “We are seeing a reduction in shootings that these groups [gang factions] are involved in. It seems to be working.”

In March 2013, meanwhile, the department devised its so-called “two degrees of separation” list modeled on Papachristos’ work. The department started with people who were killed between 2010 and 2012. People who were once arrested with those victims were placed on the list, along with people who were once arrested with those associates of the victims. About 100,000 people were on the original citywide list.

 

[2aguy]

No, people who think they know better how you should live, than you do... and who want to disarm you so they can force their will on you (that is, modern liberals) beget more violence.

When the victims try to fight back and refuse disarmament, the resulting violence is not the victims' fault. It's still the liberals' fault, who tried to coerce them in the first place.

And the best way to reduce mass shootings, is still allowing everyone to carry. Most people still won't bother. But a few will. And the criminal knows that when he wants to shoot up a shopping mall or school, knows that a few adults in the crowd are probably carrying... and he won't know which ones they are. But he knows it's unlikely he'll be able to rack up the huge body counts he wants, to get weeks of lurid headlines after he's dead. And so he often will change his mind and not try. Without a shot being fired.

You can never eliminate all mass shootings 100%. But this is the best way to reduce them.

And the liberals are dead set against it. Even though they know the methods they are pushing, don't work.

Total nonsense.

If more guns made the public safer, the US would have the safest society by far since, by far, we have the highest number of guns in the hands of citizenry of any 1st world nation.

Instead, we have, by far, the highest homicide rate of any developed nation.

Meanwhile, nations that have passed strict gun control efforts have very few shootings compared to the United States.

Its vividly clear that they are doing something right and we are doing something wrong.

Those are the facts and they are not in dispute.

Actually, those nations were already less violent and had less gun violence before the confiscations and gun control...

And as more Americans own and carry guns our gun murder rate has gone down, not up......and after the confiscation in Britain violent crime increased.....they are twice as violent as the United States....

And again.....Europe murdered 12 million innocent men, women and children....all unarmed and helpless....so Europe isn't a model we should follow...

And again, 70% of all gun murder victims had criminal records and were shot committing crimes.....90% of shooters had at least one criminal conviction and 70% had at least 4....so normal people aren't shooting people....you have a criminal culture in America driven by the entertainment industry that you don't see over in Europe.

And Australia, Britain and Europe are getting more violent, not less violent...they are importing violent populations into their relatively non violent cultures...so their crime rates will be sky rocketing very soon....

Europe has the same movies, the same books, the same video games, the same stars, the same magazines as we do. You're incorrect and you know that.

The only difference is that we have a 2nd amendment that allows people to buy as many guns as they want and Europe has not. That is why they have a lower murder rate than we do.

Nope...wrong again. Our criminals are using guns to shoot people....not our normal gun owners. Their criminals get guns just as easily as ours do, in fact, they prefer the fully auto military rifles and grenades while our criminals prefer pistols...a cultural difference.......

70% of shooting victims are killed in the commission of a criminal act......90% of shooters have at least one prior conviction and 70% of shooters have at least 4 prior convictions....

Normal gun owners do not shoot other people...our criminals do...and most of those shootings occur in tiny, multi block areas in our democrat controlled cities....the rest of the country, with guns, is as peaceful as Europe....

in 2014 there were 8,124 gun murders....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands....

So 319,991,876 guns were not used by normal gun owners to commit murder....


Over 13 million people now carry guns for self defense......so that means that those 8,124 gun murders are not committed by people with concealed carry permits...since criminals don't get permits to carry their guns....

And it has been found by actual research, not pulling the feelings out of one's ass, that Concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than the rest of the population, and more law abiding than police officers.....

So you are wrong.....

And according to bill clinton....Americans use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...

8,124 gun murders


1.5 million crimes stopped

Can you tell which number is bigger?

Your stats are garbage; it's been proven over and over again. You can tell they are garbage by how they are always perfectly rounded (70%, 90%, 1.5 million....).

Wasn't it 2,000,000 violent crimes prevented when you first started telling that lie? What happened to the other 500,000 so-called preventions?

And the stat was that "violent crimes" were prevented. Which leads to the question how do you know there was going to be a violent crime (or a crime at all) if it was prevented?

Please amuse us all and, for once, back up your lie. If you can't will you kindly shut the fuck up?

And here are the actual studies that researched self defense with guns...the bill clinton study is in there, I will highlight it.......

And the average of non military, non police self defense shootings is 2 million times a year that Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives....

bill clinton commissioned his study to refute Dr. Gary Kleck's study...clinton had the Department of Justice hire two rabidly anti gun researchers to create a study to research gun self defense, they created it, they executed the study...and found that Americans used guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[JoeB131]

8,124 people murdered with guns....about 70% of those victims were criminals themselves engaged in crime....

You mean they were Darkies, so they had to be up to something.

Yawn, guy, number is closer to 11,000 a year, and it's unacceptable.

Are you like on this board 24-7 waiting for someone to doubt the right to own a penis substitute? Because, honestly, you seem to be obsessed.

At least work on some new material.

 

[JoeB131]

And more research showing that gun crime in America is coming from actual criminals....not normal gun owners....

Not really true. Most gun deaths are suicides, domestic violence and accidents.

 

[JoeB131]

Nope...wrong again. Our criminals are using guns to shoot people....not our normal gun owners. Their criminals get guns just as easily as ours do, in fact, they prefer the fully auto military rifles and grenades while our criminals prefer pistols...a cultural difference.......

Are you goign to spam every thread with NRA talking points, or are you going to have a conversation.

Okay. Our side has a solution to the gun problem. Make guns harder to get.

Your solution seems to be, we should all put up with it because some slave rapist who shit in a chamberpot 200 years ago said so.

 

[JoeB131]

And here are the actual studies that researched self defense with guns...the bill clinton study is in there, I will highlight it.......

And the average of non military, non police self defense shootings is 2 million times a year that Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives....

The FBI says the number is closer to 47,000.

Are you really claiming that 2 million times a year, gun owners are shooting their guns.

And they aren't hitting all that many people?

 

[2aguy]

And more research showing that gun crime in America is coming from actual criminals....not normal gun owners....

Not really true. Most gun deaths are suicides, domestic violence and accidents.

Gun deaths result from alcohol, drugs and mental illness when they are used for suicide and domestic abuse...fix those problems and you solve gun crime among most non criminals.....

A gun in the home of someone who is not an alcoholic, drug addict or violent felon or someone with a history of violent anti social behavior is not a problem...

Again...

8,124 gun murders according to the FBI table 8, homocide......

1.5 million crimes stopped with guns

 

[2aguy]

Nope...wrong again. Our criminals are using guns to shoot people....not our normal gun owners. Their criminals get guns just as easily as ours do, in fact, they prefer the fully auto military rifles and grenades while our criminals prefer pistols...a cultural difference.......

Are you goign to spam every thread with NRA talking points, or are you going to have a conversation.

Okay. Our side has a solution to the gun problem. Make guns harder to get.

Your solution seems to be, we should all put up with it because some slave rapist who shit in a chamberpot 200 years ago said so.

I don't use NRA talking points....I actually do research into the issue...you guys spew anti gun extremism coming from your hate for people.....

My solution is to target actual criminals...long prison sentences and actually arresting gun criminals....

You guys...arrest normal gun owners ( who don't commit gun crime) for clerical issues and destroy their lives...

Yeah....your way isn't working....

 

[2aguy]

And here are the actual studies that researched self defense with guns...the bill clinton study is in there, I will highlight it.......

And the average of non military, non police self defense shootings is 2 million times a year that Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives....

The FBI says the number is closer to 47,000.

Are you really claiming that 2 million times a year, gun owners are shooting their guns.

And they aren't hitting all that many people?

Sorry....the actual 40 years of studies says it is much higher.........please link to your source....

 

[2aguy]

And here are the actual studies that researched self defense with guns...the bill clinton study is in there, I will highlight it.......

And the average of non military, non police self defense shootings is 2 million times a year that Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives....

The FBI says the number is closer to 47,000.

Are you really claiming that 2 million times a year, gun owners are shooting their guns.

And they aren't hitting all that many people?

And here are the actual studies that researched self defense with guns...the bill clinton study is in there, I will highlight it.......

And the average of non military, non police self defense shootings is 2 million times a year that Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives....

bill clinton commissioned his study to refute Dr. Gary Kleck's study...clinton had the Department of Justice hire two rabidly anti gun researchers to create a study to research gun self defense, they created it, they executed the study...and found that Americans used guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[2aguy]

And here are the actual studies that researched self defense with guns...the bill clinton study is in there, I will highlight it.......

And the average of non military, non police self defense shootings is 2 million times a year that Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives....

The FBI says the number is closer to 47,000.

Are you really claiming that 2 million times a year, gun owners are shooting their guns.

And they aren't hitting all that many people?

Are you really claiming that 2 million times a year, gun owners are shooting their guns.

Nope...the studies actually say most violent crimes end when the victim draws his weapon...the criminal runs away or surrenders, and they wait for the police.

Then the next level is when shots are fired and the criminal still runs away or surrenders.

Lesser, shot fired and the criminal is wounded and captured...

And about 238 times a year criminals are killed by defensive fire....

That is what the studies actually show...all 40 years of them.