Solar Power Destroys Miles and Miles of Desert

Who has spent 9 trillion dollars?

In your haste you may not have noticed this, but alternative energy systems ARE putting power into the world's grids.
 
elektra said:
Mad_Cabbie said:
elektra said:
Green energy, the biggest fraud in history, sold on the lie of agw.
Click to expand...

The real question is why do you hate it so much?

Answer: because that's how you were told to think.
Click to expand...
9 trillion dollar fraud that destroys the earth while claiming to save the earth.
Click to expand...

Correct! Solar energy is destroying the earth! I better start my high fat diet and fornicating like there's no tomorrow .. because there ain't!!!
 
Crick said:
Who has spent 9 trillion dollars?

In your haste you may not have noticed this, but alternative energy systems ARE putting power into the world's grids.
Click to expand...
Crick, you comprehension is weak, hence you believe everything you read. It is a good question, "who has spent 9 trillion dollars", seeings how I did not say 9 trillion dollars has been spent. I stated Green/Renewable/Alternative Energy is a 9 trillion dollar fraud. I guess I should of said 10-11 trillion dollar fraud to account for what has been spent thus far.

Alternative energy systems is a misuse of the word energy. That implies you are using something other than fossil fuels. Alternative energy systems all use fossil fuels. Only difference is, instead of making energy directly, efficiently out of fossil fuels, we increase our production of fossil fuel to create monstrosities that set records every day in size while delivering barely enough power to make an "Energy Star", super energy efficient LED light-bulb on.

Spain, Greece, and Germany are cutting Solar and Wind power to their grids, its bankrupting their countries. The news about Brazil is they economy is crashing on Green Energy, the diverted money from developing water resources to Alternative Energy now they are suffering massive black-outs.

The United States of America must dedicate a 100% of all our taxes to developing Green/Alternative/Renewable Energy for the next 20 years, or more. If that is not true tell us how much it will cost, crick.
 
5 square miles, .1% of the area that will be developed for Alternative energy.
_a1.jpg
 
elektra said:
Spain, Greece, and Germany are cutting Solar and Wind power to their grids, its bankrupting their countries. The news about Brazil is they economy is crashing on Green Energy, the diverted money from developing water resources to Alternative Energy now they are suffering massive black-outs.
Click to expand...

Elektra, you are seemingly clueless when it comes to this topic -- it is you that needs to better acclimate yourself to the subject matter and to better assimilate the information already made available.

Germany Now Produces Half Of Its Energy Using Solar

June 24, 2014 | by Stephen Luntz

776px-SolarFachwerkhaus_0.jpg

photo credit: Turelio. This solar array at Buschhoven near Bonn was an early example of the movement that has now produced half Germany's electricity demand, albeit for just an hour.
Share on facebook237K Share on twitter1.4K Share on reddit Share on google_plusone_share More Sharing Services

Germany has set a new record, with solar power providing 50.6% of its electricity in the middle of the day on Monday June 9th. Solar production peaked that day at 23.1GW. Three days earlier it was 24.2GW between 1 and 2pm, but on the 9th demand was down for a public holiday, allowing the breaking of the psychological 50% barrier.

Reporting of the achievement has been quite inaccurate in some cases. Coverage has often confused electricity demand with total energy consumption, which properly includes heating and industrial uses of natural gas, although these would have been low on a warm public holiday. Headlines have often implied that the 50% threshold was exceeded for over a fortnight, rather than a single hour.

Nevertheless, the scale of the achievement is considerable. Germany is not a sunny place. Indeed more than 90% of the world's population lives in countries with substantially more sunlight.


Even by European standards German solar panels have little to work with.

Consequently, it is wind, rather than solar, that has been the backbone of Germany's Energiewende, the transition to renewable, non-polluting sources of power.

The shift to solar energy in Germany has not come cheap, with €16 billion of subsidies in 2013. However, by creating a level of demand that spurred mass manufacturing, Germany has played a large part in bringing the cost of solar panels down by 80% in five years, allowing other countries to follow in its footsteps for a fraction of the price, particularly those with more sunlight.

Moreover, where the initial stages of the move to wind were driven by government subsidies, solar power in Germany can now compete with fossil fuels on price alone, andcontinues to expand, albeit at a slower rate than a few years ago.

German solar production is up 34% compared to the same time last year as a result of both better weather and increased installations. While the first is unpredictable, increasing quantities of panels ensure that the 50% record will be breached again, probably this year.

Germany Now Produces Half Of Its Energy Using Solar IFLScience
 
Last edited:
Spain....

38% Of Spain’s July Electricity Demand Was Met By Wind and Solar Power

August 15th, 2014 by Mridul Chadha



Solar and wind energy sector has a bumper output in Spain last month as the two technologies fulfilled more than a third of the country’s total electricity demand.

Low-carbon electricity sources generated more than 55% of the electricity consumed in Spain last month as power generated from wind energy increased substantially. Almost 30% of the total electricity consumed last month was generated by wind energy projects, while about 4% each was generated by solar photovoltaic and concentrated solar power projects. Electricity generated from nuclear power projects constituted about 18% of the country’s total demand.

July’s share of wind and solar power technologies was significantly higher than their respective share in power generated during the first six months of the year. Between January and July 2014, the share of wind energy was about 22% while that of solar PV was 3.3%.

The wind energy sector has been consistently increasing its share in Spain power generation sector. In 2013 wind energy had the highest share among all technologies in the country’s generation mix. Wind energy projects supplied 21.1% of all electricity consumed in Spain, followed by nuclear power projects which had a share of 21%. During January, February, March and November, wind energy had the highest share in the generation mix.

Renewable energy technologies – wind, solar PV, and solar thermal – represented 49% of the total power generation capacity added in 2013. Generation from coal, natural gas-based power plants, as well as nuclear power generation fell in 2013. Portugal also reported that 70% of the electricity consumed in 2013 was generated by renewable energy sources.

As a result, greenhouse gas emissions from the electricity sector in the Spanish peninsula fell 23.1% to 61.4 million tonnes of CO2e.

Spain has paid €56 billion in subsidies to renewable energy projects since 1998. These projects will receive an additional €142 billion over their lifetimes. The Spanish government intends to restrict the subsidies to renewable energy projects through a bill approved recently. As per the new rules, existing renewable energy projects will be able to earn 7.5% rate of return over their lifetimes.

Wind and Solar Power Provide Over 1 3 of Spain s Power in July
 
Greece....

Greece Sees Impressive Solar PV Growth Despite Banking Crisis
Paul Gipe, Contributor
January 31, 2013 | 4 Comments

Despite on the ongoing financial tragedy that has gripped Greece for the past three years, the country has risen Phoenix-like from the ashes to become one of the world's largest markets for solar photovoltaics (solar PV).

According to data compiled by the Hellenic Association of Photovoltaic Companies (HELAPCO), Greeks installed more than 900 MW of solar PV last year, bringing total installed capacity to more than 1,500 MW.

3-large-greece-sees-impressive-solar-pv-growth-despite-banking-crisis.jpg


Both in relative and absolute terms Greece has become a world leader in solar energy development. The country now ranks third in solar PV per capita worldwide, behind only Germany and Italy.

Greece has now installed five times more solar PV per capita than the U.S.


Greece Sees Impressive Solar PV Growth Despite Banking Crisis
 
Mad_Cabbie said:
Spain....

38% Of Spain’s July Electricity Demand Was Met By Wind and Solar Power

August 15th, 2014 by Mridul Chadha



Solar and wind energy sector has a bumper output in Spain last month as the two technologies fulfilled more than a third of the country’s total electricity demand.

Low-carbon electricity sources generated more than 55% of the electricity consumed in Spain last month as power generated from wind energy increased substantially. Almost 30% of the total electricity consumed last month was generated by wind energy projects, while about 4% each was generated by solar photovoltaic and concentrated solar power projects. Electricity generated from nuclear power projects constituted about 18% of the country’s total demand.

July’s share of wind and solar power technologies was significantly higher than their respective share in power generated during the first six months of the year. Between January and July 2014, the share of wind energy was about 22% while that of solar PV was 3.3%.

The wind energy sector has been consistently increasing its share in Spain power generation sector. In 2013 wind energy had the highest share among all technologies in the country’s generation mix. Wind energy projects supplied 21.1% of all electricity consumed in Spain, followed by nuclear power projects which had a share of 21%. During January, February, March and November, wind energy had the highest share in the generation mix.

Renewable energy technologies – wind, solar PV, and solar thermal – represented 49% of the total power generation capacity added in 2013. Generation from coal, natural gas-based power plants, as well as nuclear power generation fell in 2013. Portugal also reported that 70% of the electricity consumed in 2013 was generated by renewable energy sources.

As a result, greenhouse gas emissions from the electricity sector in the Spanish peninsula fell 23.1% to 61.4 million tonnes of CO2e.

Spain has paid €56 billion in subsidies to renewable energy projects since 1998. These projects will receive an additional €142 billion over their lifetimes. The Spanish government intends to restrict the subsidies to renewable energy projects through a bill approved recently. As per the new rules, existing renewable energy projects will be able to earn 7.5% rate of return over their lifetimes.

Wind and Solar Power Provide Over 1 3 of Spain s Power in July
Click to expand...
The Spanish Government and People disagree with you!
Lets try this in Google: "spain green energy and the economy"

  • Europe's Green Energy Industry Collapses As Subsidies Cut ...
    dailycaller.com/.../europes-green-energy-industry-faces-...
    The Daily Caller

    Jun 24, 2014 - Last year, Spain began to dismantle its green energy subsidy system as energy debts grew and the economy continued to lag. New laws were ...
    You've visited this page 2 times. Last visit: 12/29/14
  • Spain Dumps the Renewable Energy Scam, Before it ...
    mothersagainstwindturbines.com/.../spain-dumps-the-renewable-energy-s...

    Jun 2, 2014 - Spain's Renewable Energy Disaster Draws to a Close June 2, 2014 by ... shrinking) economy and keeping the renewables gravy train rolling.
  • Spanish downturn a disaster for green energy - Phys.org
    phys.org › Technology › Energy & Green Tech
    Phys.org
    Rating: 4.5 - ‎13 votes
    Jun 23, 2013 - In the middle of the last decade when the economy was enjoying strong growth, Spain put a cap on the price of green energies and provided ...
  • The Lesson in Renewable Energy Development from Spain
    www.renewableenergyworld.com/.../a-lesson-i...
    Renewable Energy World

    Jul 30, 2013 - The most recent energy sector reforms passed in Spain represent the ...and partly to encourage the development of new economic sectors.
  • Green Energy Is Dead In Spain | Tory Aardvark
    toryaardvark.com/2012/05/30/green-energy-is-dead-in-spain/

    May 30, 2012 - Spain has a record high for unemployment, twice the EU limit on budget deficit and a Green economy that has caused this mess in the first ...
 
Mad_Cabbie said:
elektra said:
Spain, Greece, and Germany are cutting Solar and Wind power to their grids, its bankrupting their countries. The news about Brazil is they economy is crashing on Green Energy, the diverted money from developing water resources to Alternative Energy now they are suffering massive black-outs.
Click to expand...

Elektra, you are seemingly clueless when it comes to this topic -- it is you that needs to better acclimate yourself to the subject matter and to better assimilate the information already made available.

Germany Now Produces Half Of Its Energy Using Solar

June 24, 2014 | by Stephen Luntz

776px-SolarFachwerkhaus_0.jpg

photo credit: Turelio. This solar array at Buschhoven near Bonn was an early example of the movement that has now produced half Germany's electricity demand, albeit for just an hour.
Share on facebook237K Share on twitter1.4K Share on reddit Share on google_plusone_share More Sharing Services

Germany has set a new record, with solar power providing 50.6% of its electricity in the middle of the day on Monday June 9th. Solar production peaked that day at 23.1GW. Three days earlier it was 24.2GW between 1 and 2pm, but on the 9th demand was down for a public holiday, allowing the breaking of the psychological 50% barrier.

Reporting of the achievement has been quite inaccurate in some cases. Coverage has often confused electricity demand with total energy consumption, which properly includes heating and industrial uses of natural gas, although these would have been low on a warm public holiday. Headlines have often implied that the 50% threshold was exceeded for over a fortnight, rather than a single hour.

Nevertheless, the scale of the achievement is considerable. Germany is not a sunny place. Indeed more than 90% of the world's population lives in countries with substantially more sunlight.


Even by European standards German solar panels have little to work with.

Consequently, it is wind, rather than solar, that has been the backbone of Germany's Energiewende, the transition to renewable, non-polluting sources of power.

The shift to solar energy in Germany has not come cheap, with €16 billion of subsidies in 2013. However, by creating a level of demand that spurred mass manufacturing, Germany has played a large part in bringing the cost of solar panels down by 80% in five years, allowing other countries to follow in its footsteps for a fraction of the price, particularly those with more sunlight.

Moreover, where the initial stages of the move to wind were driven by government subsidies, solar power in Germany can now compete with fossil fuels on price alone, andcontinues to expand, albeit at a slower rate than a few years ago.

German solar production is up 34% compared to the same time last year as a result of both better weather and increased installations. While the first is unpredictable, increasing quantities of panels ensure that the 50% record will be breached again, probably this year.

Germany Now Produces Half Of Its Energy Using Solar IFLScience
Click to expand...

Google Search this: germany green energy and the economy
  1. Green Energy Bust in Germany | Dissent Magazine
    Article Dissent Magazinegreen-energy-bust-in-germany
    Dissent

    Germany has become the great green hope, promising to dispel the aura of ... Many believe that the Energiewende shows that the economics and the ...
    You've visited this page 4 times. Last visit: 2/4/15
  2. Renewable energy in Germany - Wikipedia, the free ...
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany
    Wikipedia

    Germany has been called "the world's first major renewable energy economy". More than 23,000 wind turbines and 1.4 million solar PV systems are distributed ...
  3. Germany's Expensive Gamble on Renewable Energy - WSJ
    www.wsj.com/.../germanys-expensive-gamble-on-re...
    The Wall Street Journal

    Aug 26, 2014 - The European Union has set a series of binding renewable energytargets ... Despite the weak second quarter, Germany's economy—Europe's ...
  4. 45 US Should Learn from Germany's Renewable Energy ...
    www.renewableenergyworld.com/.../us-should...
    Renewable Energy World

    Jul 16, 2014 - Green energy is a a dark religion foisted on an ignorant population by spineless ..... Germany's economy is the most efficient in the world: ...
  5. High Renewable Energy Costs Damage the German Economy
    theenergycollective.com/.../high-renewable-energy-costs-damage-germa...

    Feb 12, 2014 - In September 2010, the German government announced a new energypolicy with the target of increasing the relative share of renewable ...
  6. Germany's energy transition: Sunny, windy, costly and dirty ...
    www.economist.com/.../21594336-germanys-new-super-...
    The Economist

    Jan 18, 2014 - Germany's new “super minister” for energy and the economy has his work cut ... The share of renewable energy from sun, wind and biomass is ...
  7. Germany Now Produces 28.5% of Energy from Renewables ...
    time.com/3059043/germany-green-energy-renewables/
    Time

    Jul 30, 2014 - Germany set a new record on green energy in the first half of 2014, by producing 28.5% of its energy entirely from renewable sources, ...
  8. [PDF]The German experience - Institute for Energy Research
    instituteforenergyresearch.org/.../germany/...
    Institute for Energy Research

    Projektbericht. Rheinisch-Westfälisches Institut für Wirtschaftsforschung. Economicimpacts from the promotion of renewable energies: The German experience.
  9. Moves Toward Green Energy Hamper Germany's Economy ...
    https://www.stratfor.com/.../moves-toward-green-energy-hamper-...
    Stratfor

    Feb 1, 2015 - The German economy took a hit when renewable energy sources began gaining popularity.
  10. Germany's Green Energy Is an Expensive Success ...
    www.bloombergview.com/.../germany-s-green-energy-is-an-expensive-s...

    Sep 22, 2014 - Germany's policy of switching to clean energy looks like a failure on the ... of Germany's energy-intensive industries, without the economy ...
 
CultureCitizen said:
Andylusion said:
60 m² of solar panels? One panel is 1.6 m². 60 / 1.6 = 38 panels.

38 Panels would cost $10.6 Thousand dollars. That does not include power inverter, or batteries, or the charger controller or any wiring, nor housing for equipment, or surge protections, or breakers and disconnects. That can easily add up to another $10 Thousand.

So $20K. I spend about $50 a month on electricity. In 400 years, I'll break even. Perhaps I use little electricity. Let's say $100 a month. That's 200 years to break even. Let's say the government subsidizes the big solar companies, to the tune of 50%. That's 100 years, to break even.

Fail?
Click to expand...
No
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/products.folder/module-folder/Astronergy/CHSM6612P-300.html
Each panel measures almost 2 m2 . Each provides 300 w, and each costs 300 US.
That's $9,000, and as I said that includes the energy to charge two electric cars ( for a daily 45 mile ride each ).
So you'll have to add the equivlent expense for gas ( petrol ).
To cover just my electricity needs 2 of the aforementioned panels are more than enough.

That's $600 ... I pay a lot less than you in electricity $12. 600/12 = 50 months.
Considering batteries and wiring , it would add up a lot more : $1800 = 150 months . = 12.5 years.
And as I said , I don't like current batteries. But I do get to the break-even price

Mind you , last time I checked $50 * 12 months * 200 years = 120,000. I think you made a math mistake.
Fail ?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I put down months, instead of years. I corrected it pretty quick. You must be fast on replies.

As for the rest of your stuff... Well, yeah. If you barely use any power, then you can easily cover your power needs.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of Americans are not going to live like hobbits. The average American household uses 10,000 watt hours. You say 600 watts, at 4 hours, 2,400 watt hours is enough for you? Great. More power to you Mr Frodo. The rest of us want more. Thanks.

Even if I were to get solar panels, I would never depend on them to dive somewhere. I'm not going to wake up the next morning after a cloudy day, and not be able to get to work. And it's not unusual that I have to go somewhere a distance out of the way. I'm not going to tell my boss "sorry I can't deliver this because it was partly cloudy yesterday.", or "oh sorry, my EV has a 80 mile max range".

So, no I don't add in petrol savings because there would be none. And I know this is crazy, but for most people there would be none.

Here where I live, this past week was cloudy every day. Following your plan, I'd be fired by now.

Again, if this works for you, then more power to you. I truly mean that. If you can live as a hobbit, I'm all for people living how they wish.

But as a social policy, that's a fail. And we most certainly should not be taxed, to pay for your hobbit life style.
 
Mad_Cabbie said:
Greece....

Greece Sees Impressive Solar PV Growth Despite Banking Crisis
Paul Gipe, Contributor
January 31, 2013 | 4 Comments

Despite on the ongoing financial tragedy that has gripped Greece for the past three years, the country has risen Phoenix-like from the ashes to become one of the world's largest markets for solar photovoltaics (solar PV).

According to data compiled by the Hellenic Association of Photovoltaic Companies (HELAPCO), Greeks installed more than 900 MW of solar PV last year, bringing total installed capacity to more than 1,500 MW.

3-large-greece-sees-impressive-solar-pv-growth-despite-banking-crisis.jpg


Both in relative and absolute terms Greece has become a world leader in solar energy development. The country now ranks third in solar PV per capita worldwide, behind only Germany and Italy.

Greece has now installed five times more solar PV per capita than the U.S.


Greece Sees Impressive Solar PV Growth Despite Banking Crisis
Click to expand...
Greece is dead, bailout time again.

  • Greek Debt Crisis Exposes Green Energy Subsidies ...
    www.energytribune.com/.../greek-debt-crisis-exposes-green-energy-subs...

    Feb 10, 2012 - If the debt crisis is a tragedy for the people of Greece, the EUs bailoutattempts look increasingly comedic. A second bailout, worth EUR130 ...
    You visited this page on 2/8/15.
  • Greek Debt Crisis Exposes Green Subsidies Scam
    canadafreepress.com/.../greek-debt-crisis-exposes-green-subsidies-scam

    Feb 10, 2012 - Greek Debt Crisis Exposes Green Subsidies Scam, Greek debt: Who's exposed, government subsidy cuts, renewable energy. ... If the debt crisis is a tragedy for the people of Greece, the EUs bailout attempts look increasingly ...
  • The EU Debt Crisis and its Impact on Energy Investment ...
    Garten Rothkopfenergy.../the-eu-debt-crisis-and-its-impact-o...

    May 24, 2010 - Despite a large bailout package earlier this month, the European ...Long hailed as leaders in renewable energy development, Spain, Germany and the UK will no longer be as generous with direct subsidies to fuel renewable growth. Today's ...The crisis in Greece, despite extraordinary interventions by the ...
 
Andylusion said:
Here where I live, this past week was cloudy every day. Following your plan, I'd be fired by now.

Again, if this works for you, then more power to you. I truly mean that. If you can live as a hobbit, I'm all for people living how they wish.

But as a social policy, that's a fail. And we most certainly should not be taxed, to pay for your hobbit life style.
Click to expand...
Well , of course solar is not for everyone.
I would not recomend it to someone living in Seattle at all. I think it is a good option for someone living in a sunny state.
But for anyone who wants to go green it is almost a viable option.
And I say almost because current batteries are not nearly green.
 
5 square miles of Solar, 2.1 billion dollars, needs 600 million dollar bailout, for now, to pay loans, not to produce electricity, the Solar output of Ivanpah is close to zero.
_a1.jpg
 
Crick said:
Who has spent 9 trillion dollars?

In your haste you may not have noticed this, but alternative energy systems ARE putting power into the world's grids.
Click to expand...
Mad_Cabbie said:
Greece....

Greece Sees Impressive Solar PV Growth Despite Banking Crisis
Paul Gipe, Contributor
January 31, 2013 | 4 Comments

Despite on the ongoing financial tragedy that has gripped Greece for the past three years, the country has risen Phoenix-like from the ashes to become one of the world's largest markets for solar photovoltaics (solar PV).

According to data compiled by the Hellenic Association of Photovoltaic Companies (HELAPCO), Greeks installed more than 900 MW of solar PV last year, bringing total installed capacity to more than 1,500 MW.

3-large-greece-sees-impressive-solar-pv-growth-despite-banking-crisis.jpg


Both in relative and absolute terms Greece has become a world leader in solar energy development. The country now ranks third in solar PV per capita worldwide, behind only Germany and Italy.

Greece has now installed five times more solar PV per capita than the U.S.


Greece Sees Impressive Solar PV Growth Despite Banking Crisis
Click to expand...

Let me get this straight.......

Greece spend billions of dollars to subsidize solar energy for years, until they run themselves out of money, crash the economy, and are on the verge of being forced out of the Eurozone, and depend on Germany for their survival at this point...... and your position is, this is a pattern we should follow?
 
WHAT'S AT STAKE
The Navajo Generating Station is the largest coal-fired power plant on the Colorado Plateau and one of the ten biggest polluters in the country.

It is just 12 miles from the Grand Canyon and responsible for frequently polluted air that makes vistas hazy and unhealthy at the park.

grand-canyon-haze_alex-berger-800.jpg



Haze obscures a view of the Grand Canyon.

I was there on one of the smoggy days at the Grand Canyon. That is an obscenity. One of the grandest and most beautiful areas on the planet, and the power companies choose to pollute it.
 
CultureCitizen said:
Old Rocks said:
Going grid parallel is the answer to that.
Click to expand...

Yes , of course , but for some reason I feel that's cheating on the electric company :D
Click to expand...
Not if it is done like this. You sell, during the day, when you are not using the electricity, what you produce to the power company at the wholesale rate that is being paid by the utility at that time. At night, you buy electricity at the retail price.

So, during the day, you are just another generator at the time of most use, during the night, you are a customer at the time of least use. Win-win.
 
Old Rocks said:
WHAT'S AT STAKE
The Navajo Generating Station is the largest coal-fired power plant on the Colorado Plateau and one of the ten biggest polluters in the country.

It is just 12 miles from the Grand Canyon and responsible for frequently polluted air that makes vistas hazy and unhealthy at the park.

grand-canyon-haze_alex-berger-800.jpg



Haze obscures a view of the Grand Canyon.

I was there on one of the smoggy days at the Grand Canyon. That is an obscenity. One of the grandest and most beautiful areas on the planet, and the power companies choose to pollute it.
Click to expand...

And the AGW cult will use anything to promote their religious propaganda especially when it not based on real science..
 
Old Rocks said:
CultureCitizen said:
Old Rocks said:
Going grid parallel is the answer to that.
Click to expand...

Yes , of course , but for some reason I feel that's cheating on the electric company :D
Click to expand...
Not if it is done like this. You sell, during the day, when you are not using the electricity, what you produce to the power company at the wholesale rate that is being paid by the utility at that time. At night, you buy electricity at the retail price.

So, during the day, you are just another generator at the time of most use, during the night, you are a customer at the time of least use. Win-win.
Click to expand...

Solar farms destroy the environment and they are ok with it as long as it follows their religious dogma.
 
Given the advances in the manufacture of grid scale batteries, by 2020, solar and wind can become 24/7 sources of power when teamed with those batteries. And that will even further decrease the wholesale, unsubsidized cost of both solar and wind. Wind is as low as 3.7 cents per kilowatt, solar as low as 7.2. Those are unsubsidized costs, dirty coal is at 6.6 cents per kilowatt, and that is with a depletion allowance, which is a subsidy.
 
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