Some inconvenient facts for EV cheerleaders!!

[Crick]

Our boiler and piping would cost tens of millions of dollars to replace.
So trusting in a pH meter would be foolish.
We took water samples and did a chemical analysis to determine pH

So, every time you do a lab sample, you calibrate the pH meter. It's not as if it would have no value.

 

[westwall]

I was extremely careful when around the live 1,000 psi super heated steam.
There were yellow painted lane lines on the floor that you stayed on the outside of to keep you safe.
Because if there is a pin hole leak on a super heated steam line. It will shoot out a tiny invisible, quiet jet of super heated steam will go out for up to 10 feet before it condensates in the air and you can see it.
If a person happened to walk through the invisible jet of a pin hole super heated steam leak. It will cut you in half like a razor blade.
Sometimes I had to cross the yellow safety line to repair something near the super heated boiler or piping.
So just to be safe, I'd carry a piece of wood like a broom handle, and swing it up and down in front of me as I walked.

Yup, I have been around steam boilers as well. When they are working good they are a marvel.

But when they go bad, they go REALLY bad.

 

[westwall]

So, every time you do a lab sample, you calibrate the pH meter. It's not as if it would have no value.

Suuuuure. The average person is going to know how to do that accurately.

 

[Sunni Man]

Yup, I have been around steam boilers as well. When they are working good they are a marvel.
But when they go bad, they go REALLY bad.

Yep, worked for a few years at a company in Florida that manufactured the filter media for medical devices and the beverage industry.
Everything down to the nuts & bolts was made out of stainless steel.
They had this retired Navy guy that part of his job was taking care of the steam piping and related equipment. Supposedly that's what he did in the Navy. The plant manager and my supervisor thought the guy could walk on water.
It didn't take me long to figure out the guy had no idea what he was doing. Because pumps and other associated equipment that should have last years were failing all the time.
Tried to tell my supervisor, but, I was the new guy, so they ignore me.
Around a year later came to work one morning, and all the overhead steam lines due to corrosion were paper thin and had split open. Condensate water was pouring down all over the plant floor. The company called in water treatment specialists and the pH was off the charts.
This wasn't a large plant, but all the steam piping was stainless steel and it cost like $500,000 to have every bit of it torn out and replaced.

 

[westwall]

Yep, worked for a few years at a company in Florida that manufactured the filter media for medical devices and the beverage industry.
Everything down to the nuts & bolts was made out of stainless steel.
They had this retired Navy guy that part of his job was taking care of the steam piping and related equipment. Supposedly that's what he did in the Navy. The plant manager and my supervisor thought the guy could walk on water.
It didn't take me long to figure out the guy had no idea what he was doing. Because pumps and other associated equipment that should have last years were failing all the time.
Tried to tell my supervisor, but, I was the new guy, so they ignore me.
Around a year later came to work one morning, and all the overhead steam lines due to corrosion were paper thin and had split open, and condensate water was pouring down all over the plant. The company called in water treatment specialists and the pH was off the charts.
This wasn't a large plant, but all the steam piping was stainless steel. It cost like $500,000 to have every bit of it torn out and replaced.

Yup one moron can do immeasurable damage.

 

[ReinyDays]

Yup one moron can do immeasurable damage.

The fence was there to warn you, why did you go into the facility? ... there's a lot of morons in the world ... I'd be ten miles away from that place ...

 

[westwall]

The fence was there to warn you, why did you go into the facility? ... there's a lot of morons in the world ... I'd be ten miles away from that place ...

I have no idea what you are responding to.

 

[Sunni Man]

The Stanley Streamer require 30 minutes to go from cold start to driving but it had more range than a modern EV and only takes minutes to refuel.

In 1925 the Doble E-20 Steam Car was being sold that featured a steam generator that only took about a minute to heat up the water to create enough steam to drive the car. Whereas, every other steam car had a boiler that took about 30 minutes to turn water into steam.
But it was too late to impact the market. Because the push button starter for gasoline engine cars had just been invented, and it crushed steam powered car sales.
Jay Leno has a great Youtube video featuring the 1925 Doble E-20 Steam Car

 

[Dagosa]

I hate to say it but he's profiting off of stupidity in that regard.

WITH government subsidies, which is absolutely fucked up.

Battery cars are NOT doable at this pint in time. Hybrid electric? Yes. Batteries? That's f*n retarded.

How about plug in hybrids. Is that acceptable to you ?
How about a battery that could drive your car double the range miles now and be charged in minutes, not hours.

Will you still think EVs aren’t a solution ? These batteries will begin to be test marketed in 2025. Still not interested ?
The technology has been here for decades…..

 

[Crick]

How about plug in hybrids. Is that acceptable to you ?
How about a battery that could drive your car double the range miles now and be charged in minutes, not hours.

Will you still think EVs aren’t a solution ? These batteries will begin to be test marketed in 2025. Still not interested ?
The technology has been here for decades…..

The charge time for EV batteries has always been the elephant in the room and it was certain that the effort being applied to overcome the problem would eventually achieve some results. It's either that or go to hydrogen.

 

[Sunni Man]

The charge time for EV batteries has always been the elephant in the room and it was certain that the effort being applied to overcome the problem would eventually achieve some results. It's either that or go to hydrogen.

Toyota, the worlds larges car manufacture, is currently working on releasing a line of Hydrogen powered cars.
Although, they have made the Prius hybrid car for years, and have a limited line of EV cars for sale in Asia.
Toyota, which is a very conservative company that, makes moves slowly, appears to think that Hydrogen cars are the future instead of EV's.

 

[Dagosa]

The charge time for EV batteries has always been the elephant in the room and it was certain that the effort being applied to overcome the problem would eventually achieve some results. It's either that or go to hydrogen.

No it hasn’t ALWAYS been a problem. It’s the type of battery. We’ve solved that problem decades ago. We had the advantage of lithium batteries 20 years before we out them in cars. We have that solution now. Right now, we’re in a phase where sudden battery advantages would completely change the automobile industry as we know it.

 

[Sunni Man]

We have that solution now. Right now, we’re in a phase where sudden battery advantages would completely change the automobile industry as we know it.

You should immediately contact Elon Musk and inform him of this ground breaking information!! ...

 

[Dagosa]

You should immediately contact Elon Musk and inform him of this ground breaking information!! ...

Why ? Teslar is doomed.

 

[fncceo]

How about a battery that could drive your car double the range miles now and be charged in minutes, not hours.

Based on what technology? All batteries are based on an electrolytic chemical reaction. All batteries are discharged by ion flow in one direction and charged by ion flow in the other. Charging a battery can only go faster if power in input at a higher rate but, at too high a rate, the batteries heat to the point where the electrolytic material either catches fire or is permanently damaged.

There is no magical battery out there that generates twice the power for a given chemical reaction or can be charged to full capacity in minutes. There won't be one in 2025 ... or in 2125 that is based on ionic principles.

 

[Crick]

Based on what technology? All batteries are based on an electrolytic chemical reaction. All batteries are discharged by ion flow in one direction and charged by ion flow in the other. Charging a battery can only go faster if power in input at a higher rate but, at too high a rate, the batteries heat to the point where the electrolytic material either catches fire or is permanently damaged.

There is no magical battery out there that generates twice the power for a given chemical reaction or can be charged to full capacity in minutes. There won't be one in 2025 ... or in 2125 that is based on ionic principles.

A new concept for low-cost batteries

MIT engineers designed a battery made from inexpensive, abundant materials, that could provide low-cost backup storage for renewable energy sources. Less expensive than lithium-ion battery technology, the new architecture uses aluminum and sulfur as its two electrode materials with a molten salt...

news.mit.edu

Excerpt:
The three ingredients they ended up with are cheap and readily available — aluminum, no different from the foil at the supermarket; sulfur, which is often a waste product from processes such as petroleum refining; and widely available salts. “The ingredients are cheap, and the thing is safe — it cannot burn,” Sadoway says.

In their experiments, the team showed that the battery cells could endure hundreds of cycles at exceptionally high charging rates, with a projected cost per cell of about one-sixth that of comparable lithium-ion cells. They showed that the charging rate was highly dependent on the working temperature, with 110 degrees Celsius (230 degrees Fahrenheit) showing 25 times faster rates than 25 C (77 F).

 

[fncceo]

A new concept for low-cost batteries

MIT engineers designed a battery made from inexpensive, abundant materials, that could provide low-cost backup storage for renewable energy sources. Less expensive than lithium-ion battery technology, the new architecture uses aluminum and sulfur as its two electrode materials with a molten salt...

news.mit.edu

Excerpt:
The three ingredients they ended up with are cheap and readily available — aluminum, no different from the foil at the supermarket; sulfur, which is often a waste product from processes such as petroleum refining; and widely available salts. “The ingredients are cheap, and the thing is safe — it cannot burn,” Sadoway says.

In their experiments, the team showed that the battery cells could endure hundreds of cycles at exceptionally high charging rates, with a projected cost per cell of about one-sixth that of comparable lithium-ion cells. They showed that the charging rate was highly dependent on the working temperature, with 110 degrees Celsius (230 degrees Fahrenheit) showing 25 times faster rates than 25 C (77 F).

Still based on ionic reaction ... with all the same pitfalls, just using cheaper materials.

Even at the highly dubious claim of 25 X faster charging, charging times for an EV from zero to full would still be measured in hours, not minutes.

Also, from the article, it claims that this tech only scales to "on the order of a few tens of kilowatt-hours of storage capacity." Where an EV car has requires a 70 KW capacity and an EV truck more than twice that.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A new concept for low-cost batteries

MIT engineers designed a battery made from inexpensive, abundant materials, that could provide low-cost backup storage for renewable energy sources. Less expensive than lithium-ion battery technology, the new architecture uses aluminum and sulfur as its two electrode materials with a molten salt...

news.mit.edu

Excerpt:
The three ingredients they ended up with are cheap and readily available — aluminum, no different from the foil at the supermarket; sulfur, which is often a waste product from processes such as petroleum refining; and widely available salts. “The ingredients are cheap, and the thing is safe — it cannot burn,” Sadoway says.

In their experiments, the team showed that the battery cells could endure hundreds of cycles at exceptionally high charging rates, with a projected cost per cell of about one-sixth that of comparable lithium-ion cells. They showed that the charging rate was highly dependent on the working temperature, with 110 degrees Celsius (230 degrees Fahrenheit) showing 25 times faster rates than 25 C (77 F).

Molten salt battery for an automobile? Holy shit!

 

[Crick]

Still based on ionic reaction ... with all the same pitfalls, just using cheaper materials.

Even at the highly dubious claim of 25 X faster charging, charging times for an EV from zero to full would still be measured in hours, no minutes.

Also, from the article, it claims that this tech only scales to "on the order of a few tens of kilowatt-hours of storage capacity." Where an EV car has requires a 70 KW capacity and an EV truck more than twice that.

There was no claim that they were ready to start manufacturing EV batteries. And a 25 fold increase would allow a charge from zero to full in significantly less than one hour on most vehicles.

Charging time for a Tesla Model 3

Charging method	Typically found at	Charging time*
Empty to full
3.6kW	Home / Work	15 - 22 h
7kW	Home / Work / Public Locations	8 - 12 h
22kW	Work / Public Locations	5 - 8 h

 

[fncceo]

I just invented a new type of vehicle and here are it's benefits.

• It can travel hundreds of miles without refueling
• It can be refueled in a matter of minutes at any of hundreds of thousands of fueling stations across the planet (where you can also get coffee and a Big Gulp)
• My vehicle allows you to run the heater without impact to its range (it generates heat as a byproduct) and run the air conditioner at any temp only minimal impact
• My vehicle is significantly cheaper than the EV, and requires no government rebate to make it affordable.
• My vehicle is available in thousands of styles and colors to suit anyone's tastes.
• My vehicle can be driven for 100's of thousands of miles with only basic maintenance, no expensive replacement of the entire power plant is periodically required.
• My vehicle isn't driven by rare, expensive, and environmentally damaging minerals like Lithium.
• My vehicle has over 100 years of technological development and testing behind it and the technology is proven beyond any doubt of it's workability.

Where is my Nobel Prize?