South Carolina schools may teach gun safety and training

[PaintMyHouse]

I did use accurate numbers dummy. 32,000 divided by 65 million is the number, the only accurate one.

So where did the 650,000 come from that you posted?

And "less than" is a valid mathematical term, which is why we have "<" as a mathematical symbol.

650,000 is one percent of 65 million. 1/10 of that is 65,000, which still is nothing like accurate. Why are you so unwilling to use accurate numbers?

I am using accurate numbers. Why are you so fixated on my using "less than 0.1%" and demanding I use "0.0492308%"??

I was making a point concerning the relative infrequency of deaths when compared to the number of gun owners. And, as such, it is valid.

I'm fixated on it because I like people to use accurate fucking numbers. Less than 50% of teenage girls get pregnant each year might be true but it is nothing like accurate when the number is a tenth of that.

And if I were wanting to show an actual number I would do so.

The fact that it is less than 1/10th of 1% is accurate and speaks volumes.

Okay, let's use your number. Do 1 in 1,000 gun owners die each year as the result of firearms?

 

[WinterBorn]

So how about all those "easy to find" examples of accidental shooting deaths that would not be fixed if everyone followed the basic safety rules?

How about telling me the rules that would have solved case number 12, and so far you can't. Carry on.

Indeed I did. In fact, I listed the basic safety rules that were broken for each of the 12 cases cited.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

So how about all those "easy to find" examples of accidental shooting deaths that would not be fixed if everyone followed the basic safety rules?

How about telling me the rules that would have solved case number 12, and so far you can't. Carry on.

Indeed I did. In fact, I listed the basic safety rules that were broken for each of the 12 cases cited.

No, you said 12 was "stupid". Shall I quote you exactly? So, tell us, what rules were broken by letting a 9-year-old shoot an Uzi, with an instructor by her side, at a gun range? We are all very interested since you say the rules would have saved a life.

 

[WinterBorn]

So where did the 650,000 come from that you posted?

And "less than" is a valid mathematical term, which is why we have "<" as a mathematical symbol.

650,000 is one percent of 65 million. 1/10 of that is 65,000, which still is nothing like accurate. Why are you so unwilling to use accurate numbers?

I am using accurate numbers. Why are you so fixated on my using "less than 0.1%" and demanding I use "0.0492308%"??

I was making a point concerning the relative infrequency of deaths when compared to the number of gun owners. And, as such, it is valid.

I'm fixated on it because I like people to use accurate fucking numbers. Less than 50% of teenage girls get pregnant each year might be true but it is nothing like accurate when the number is a tenth of that.

And if I were wanting to show an actual number I would do so.

The fact that it is less than 1/10th of 1% is accurate and speaks volumes.

Okay, let's use your number. Do 1 in 1,000 gun owners die each year as the result of firearms?

Or we can actually try and use accurate numbers. Your figure of 32,000 is high by 2,629 (at least as of 2010, which is the latest I can find numbers for gun murders, gun suicides and accidental shooting deaths).

In 2010 there were 8,775 gun murders according to:
FBI mdash Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Also in that year there were 19,990 gun suicides according to:
FastStats - Suicide and Self-Inflicted Injury

And there were 606 accidental shooting deaths in 2010 according to:
Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

That comes to 29,371.

But this is still just a minor sticking point that you want to dwell on, since you have little else.

 

[WinterBorn]

So how about all those "easy to find" examples of accidental shooting deaths that would not be fixed if everyone followed the basic safety rules?

How about telling me the rules that would have solved case number 12, and so far you can't. Carry on.

Indeed I did. In fact, I listed the basic safety rules that were broken for each of the 12 cases cited.

No, you said 12 was "stupid". Shall I quote you exactly? So, tell us, what rules were broken by letting a 9-year-old shoot an Uzi, with an instructor by her side, at a gun range? We are all very interested since you say the rules would have saved a life.

Indeed I did. In post #307 (posted about an hour ago).

 

[PaintMyHouse]

650,000 is one percent of 65 million. 1/10 of that is 65,000, which still is nothing like accurate. Why are you so unwilling to use accurate numbers?

I am using accurate numbers. Why are you so fixated on my using "less than 0.1%" and demanding I use "0.0492308%"??

I was making a point concerning the relative infrequency of deaths when compared to the number of gun owners. And, as such, it is valid.

I'm fixated on it because I like people to use accurate fucking numbers. Less than 50% of teenage girls get pregnant each year might be true but it is nothing like accurate when the number is a tenth of that.

And if I were wanting to show an actual number I would do so.

The fact that it is less than 1/10th of 1% is accurate and speaks volumes.

Okay, let's use your number. Do 1 in 1,000 gun owners die each year as the result of firearms?

Or we can actually try and use accurate numbers. Your figure of 32,000 is high by 2,629 (at least as of 2010, which is the latest I can find numbers for gun murders, gun suicides and accidental shooting deaths).

In 2010 there were 8,775 gun murders according to:
FBI mdash Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Also in that year there were 19,990 gun suicides according to:
FastStats - Suicide and Self-Inflicted Injury

And there were 606 accidental shooting deaths in 2010 according to:
Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

That comes to 29,371.

But this is still just a minor sticking point that you want to dwell on, since you have little else.

Good, some actual numbers.

Here:
Gun Control Issues, Public Health, and Safety
Gunshot wounds impact severely on the criminal justice as well as health care systems. Some basic statistics are important in understanding the magnitude and severity of the social and economic burden to the U.S. The subject remains contentious. (Glantz and Annas, 2009)

In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012).
FIREARMS TUTORIAL

 

[WinterBorn]

I am using accurate numbers. Why are you so fixated on my using "less than 0.1%" and demanding I use "0.0492308%"??

I was making a point concerning the relative infrequency of deaths when compared to the number of gun owners. And, as such, it is valid.

I'm fixated on it because I like people to use accurate fucking numbers. Less than 50% of teenage girls get pregnant each year might be true but it is nothing like accurate when the number is a tenth of that.

And if I were wanting to show an actual number I would do so.

The fact that it is less than 1/10th of 1% is accurate and speaks volumes.

Okay, let's use your number. Do 1 in 1,000 gun owners die each year as the result of firearms?

Or we can actually try and use accurate numbers. Your figure of 32,000 is high by 2,629 (at least as of 2010, which is the latest I can find numbers for gun murders, gun suicides and accidental shooting deaths).

In 2010 there were 8,775 gun murders according to:
FBI mdash Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Also in that year there were 19,990 gun suicides according to:
FastStats - Suicide and Self-Inflicted Injury

And there were 606 accidental shooting deaths in 2010 according to:
Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

That comes to 29,371.

But this is still just a minor sticking point that you want to dwell on, since you have little else.

Good, some actual numbers.

Here:
Gun Control Issues, Public Health, and Safety
Gunshot wounds impact severely on the criminal justice as well as health care systems. Some basic statistics are important in understanding the magnitude and severity of the social and economic burden to the U.S. The subject remains contentious. (Glantz and Annas, 2009)

In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012).
FIREARMS TUTORIAL

When two websites disagree on the number of firearm homicides, the FBI/Dept of Justice is the one I will take as accurate.

But even using your numbers, your original figure of 32,000 was off by over 1,000. (and yes, 1,077 is over 1,000)

 

[PaintMyHouse]

So how about all those "easy to find" examples of accidental shooting deaths that would not be fixed if everyone followed the basic safety rules?

How about telling me the rules that would have solved case number 12, and so far you can't. Carry on.

Indeed I did. In fact, I listed the basic safety rules that were broken for each of the 12 cases cited.

No, you said 12 was "stupid". Shall I quote you exactly? So, tell us, what rules were broken by letting a 9-year-old shoot an Uzi, with an instructor by her side, at a gun range? We are all very interested since you say the rules would have saved a life.

Indeed I did. In post #307 (posted about an hour ago).

So, it was stupid. Where in the rules does it say this child shouldn't have been firing that gun, at a gun range, with an instructor beside her? Oh wait, it doesn't, meaning safety wasn't the issue, sanity was and that doesn't have a fix unless we, the government, step in.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I'm fixated on it because I like people to use accurate fucking numbers. Less than 50% of teenage girls get pregnant each year might be true but it is nothing like accurate when the number is a tenth of that.

And if I were wanting to show an actual number I would do so.

The fact that it is less than 1/10th of 1% is accurate and speaks volumes.

Okay, let's use your number. Do 1 in 1,000 gun owners die each year as the result of firearms?

Or we can actually try and use accurate numbers. Your figure of 32,000 is high by 2,629 (at least as of 2010, which is the latest I can find numbers for gun murders, gun suicides and accidental shooting deaths).

In 2010 there were 8,775 gun murders according to:
FBI mdash Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Also in that year there were 19,990 gun suicides according to:
FastStats - Suicide and Self-Inflicted Injury

And there were 606 accidental shooting deaths in 2010 according to:
Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

That comes to 29,371.

But this is still just a minor sticking point that you want to dwell on, since you have little else.

Good, some actual numbers.

Here:
Gun Control Issues, Public Health, and Safety
Gunshot wounds impact severely on the criminal justice as well as health care systems. Some basic statistics are important in understanding the magnitude and severity of the social and economic burden to the U.S. The subject remains contentious. (Glantz and Annas, 2009)

In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012).
FIREARMS TUTORIAL

When two websites disagree on the number of firearm homicides, the FBI/Dept of Justice is the one I will take as accurate.

But even using your numbers, your original figure of 32,000 was off by over 1,000. (and yes, 1,077 is over 1,000)

How about I be truly generous, and let's call it 30,000. Now, what is 30,000 of 65,000,000?

And it's not 1 in 1,000 by a long damn shot.

 

[WinterBorn]

So how about all those "easy to find" examples of accidental shooting deaths that would not be fixed if everyone followed the basic safety rules?

How about telling me the rules that would have solved case number 12, and so far you can't. Carry on.

Indeed I did. In fact, I listed the basic safety rules that were broken for each of the 12 cases cited.

No, you said 12 was "stupid". Shall I quote you exactly? So, tell us, what rules were broken by letting a 9-year-old shoot an Uzi, with an instructor by her side, at a gun range? We are all very interested since you say the rules would have saved a life.

Indeed I did. In post #307 (posted about an hour ago).

So, it was stupid. Where in the rules does it say this child shouldn't have been firing that gun, at a gun range, with an instructor beside her? Oh wait, it doesn't., meaning safety wasn't the issue, sanity was and that doesn't have a fix unless we, the government, step in.

I clearly said "post #307". Is that what I said in post #307? Or did I quote a rule listed in the link I gave you?

I quoted "Before handling any firearm, understand its operation.". Clearly, the 9 year old did not understand the operation of the gun in full auto. Muzzle climb due to recoil is common knowledge for those who understand the operation of the gun. And controlling that muzzle climb is part of the safe operation of the gun.

 

[WinterBorn]

And if I were wanting to show an actual number I would do so.

The fact that it is less than 1/10th of 1% is accurate and speaks volumes.

Okay, let's use your number. Do 1 in 1,000 gun owners die each year as the result of firearms?

Or we can actually try and use accurate numbers. Your figure of 32,000 is high by 2,629 (at least as of 2010, which is the latest I can find numbers for gun murders, gun suicides and accidental shooting deaths).

In 2010 there were 8,775 gun murders according to:
FBI mdash Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Also in that year there were 19,990 gun suicides according to:
FastStats - Suicide and Self-Inflicted Injury

And there were 606 accidental shooting deaths in 2010 according to:
Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

That comes to 29,371.

But this is still just a minor sticking point that you want to dwell on, since you have little else.

Good, some actual numbers.

Here:
Gun Control Issues, Public Health, and Safety
Gunshot wounds impact severely on the criminal justice as well as health care systems. Some basic statistics are important in understanding the magnitude and severity of the social and economic burden to the U.S. The subject remains contentious. (Glantz and Annas, 2009)

In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012).
FIREARMS TUTORIAL

When two websites disagree on the number of firearm homicides, the FBI/Dept of Justice is the one I will take as accurate.

But even using your numbers, your original figure of 32,000 was off by over 1,000. (and yes, 1,077 is over 1,000)

How about I be truly generous, and let's call it 30,000. Now, what is 30,000 of 65,000,000?

And it's not 1 in 1,000 by a long damn shot.

It is still less than 1/10 of 1%. That statement works quite well for a number of years and even if the exact figures do not agree (due to using different sources). And it makes the point.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Okay, let's use your number. Do 1 in 1,000 gun owners die each year as the result of firearms?

Or we can actually try and use accurate numbers. Your figure of 32,000 is high by 2,629 (at least as of 2010, which is the latest I can find numbers for gun murders, gun suicides and accidental shooting deaths).

In 2010 there were 8,775 gun murders according to:
FBI mdash Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Also in that year there were 19,990 gun suicides according to:
FastStats - Suicide and Self-Inflicted Injury

And there were 606 accidental shooting deaths in 2010 according to:
Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

That comes to 29,371.

But this is still just a minor sticking point that you want to dwell on, since you have little else.

Good, some actual numbers.

Here:
Gun Control Issues, Public Health, and Safety
Gunshot wounds impact severely on the criminal justice as well as health care systems. Some basic statistics are important in understanding the magnitude and severity of the social and economic burden to the U.S. The subject remains contentious. (Glantz and Annas, 2009)

In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012).
FIREARMS TUTORIAL

When two websites disagree on the number of firearm homicides, the FBI/Dept of Justice is the one I will take as accurate.

But even using your numbers, your original figure of 32,000 was off by over 1,000. (and yes, 1,077 is over 1,000)

How about I be truly generous, and let's call it 30,000. Now, what is 30,000 of 65,000,000?

And it's not 1 in 1,000 by a long damn shot.

It is still less than 1/10 of 1%. That statement works quite well for a number of years and even if the exact figures do not agree (due to using different sources). And it makes the point.

It's inaccurate, but what the fuck, you're going to use it anyway. Are we done with this part of the debate because I sure as hell hope so.

 

[WinterBorn]

Or we can actually try and use accurate numbers. Your figure of 32,000 is high by 2,629 (at least as of 2010, which is the latest I can find numbers for gun murders, gun suicides and accidental shooting deaths).

In 2010 there were 8,775 gun murders according to:
FBI mdash Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Also in that year there were 19,990 gun suicides according to:
FastStats - Suicide and Self-Inflicted Injury

And there were 606 accidental shooting deaths in 2010 according to:
Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

That comes to 29,371.

But this is still just a minor sticking point that you want to dwell on, since you have little else.

Good, some actual numbers.

Here:
Gun Control Issues, Public Health, and Safety
Gunshot wounds impact severely on the criminal justice as well as health care systems. Some basic statistics are important in understanding the magnitude and severity of the social and economic burden to the U.S. The subject remains contentious. (Glantz and Annas, 2009)

In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012).
FIREARMS TUTORIAL

When two websites disagree on the number of firearm homicides, the FBI/Dept of Justice is the one I will take as accurate.

But even using your numbers, your original figure of 32,000 was off by over 1,000. (and yes, 1,077 is over 1,000)

How about I be truly generous, and let's call it 30,000. Now, what is 30,000 of 65,000,000?

And it's not 1 in 1,000 by a long damn shot.

It is still less than 1/10 of 1%. That statement works quite well for a number of years and even if the exact figures do not agree (due to using different sources). And it makes the point.

It's inaccurate, but what the fuck, you're going to use it anyway. Are we done with this part of the debate because I sure as hell hope so.

Since I was only using the "less than 1/10th of 1%" to show the relative rarity of gun deaths compared to the number of gun owners, I was done with it after I posted it. You are the one who has drug it out.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Good, some actual numbers.

Here:
Gun Control Issues, Public Health, and Safety
Gunshot wounds impact severely on the criminal justice as well as health care systems. Some basic statistics are important in understanding the magnitude and severity of the social and economic burden to the U.S. The subject remains contentious. (Glantz and Annas, 2009)

In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012).
FIREARMS TUTORIAL

When two websites disagree on the number of firearm homicides, the FBI/Dept of Justice is the one I will take as accurate.

But even using your numbers, your original figure of 32,000 was off by over 1,000. (and yes, 1,077 is over 1,000)

How about I be truly generous, and let's call it 30,000. Now, what is 30,000 of 65,000,000?

And it's not 1 in 1,000 by a long damn shot.

It is still less than 1/10 of 1%. That statement works quite well for a number of years and even if the exact figures do not agree (due to using different sources). And it makes the point.

It's inaccurate, but what the fuck, you're going to use it anyway. Are we done with this part of the debate because I sure as hell hope so.

Since I was only using the "less than 1/10th of 1%" to show the relative rarity of gun deaths compared to the number of gun owners, I was done with it after I posted it. You are the one who has drug it out.

Great. Now tell me of the rules that would have prevent the death in example 12? Go on...

 

[WinterBorn]

When two websites disagree on the number of firearm homicides, the FBI/Dept of Justice is the one I will take as accurate.

But even using your numbers, your original figure of 32,000 was off by over 1,000. (and yes, 1,077 is over 1,000)

How about I be truly generous, and let's call it 30,000. Now, what is 30,000 of 65,000,000?

And it's not 1 in 1,000 by a long damn shot.

It is still less than 1/10 of 1%. That statement works quite well for a number of years and even if the exact figures do not agree (due to using different sources). And it makes the point.

It's inaccurate, but what the fuck, you're going to use it anyway. Are we done with this part of the debate because I sure as hell hope so.

Since I was only using the "less than 1/10th of 1%" to show the relative rarity of gun deaths compared to the number of gun owners, I was done with it after I posted it. You are the one who has drug it out.

Great. Now tell me of the rules that would have prevent the death in example 12? Go on...

I already did that twice. I'll not post it again.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The gun safety course would probably work much like the hunter safety courses. I made sure my kids took both the NRA gun safety class and the hunter safety class (for the three that chose to hunt).

That being true then you certainly don't need it in the schools, you Big Government control-freaks.

No control over anyone. It is an elective.

Can't say as I care. They need it like a hole in the head, literally. The three Rs lacks a G, as it should.

OK, this twerp cannot be serious. Nobody can be THIS stupid. Which regular is he a sock for?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Propaganda is what you get from the NRA. Unlike them I deal in the real world.

You wouldn't know the real world if it kicked you in the balls.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

How about I be truly generous, and let's call it 30,000. Now, what is 30,000 of 65,000,000?

And it's not 1 in 1,000 by a long damn shot.

It is still less than 1/10 of 1%. That statement works quite well for a number of years and even if the exact figures do not agree (due to using different sources). And it makes the point.

It's inaccurate, but what the fuck, you're going to use it anyway. Are we done with this part of the debate because I sure as hell hope so.

Since I was only using the "less than 1/10th of 1%" to show the relative rarity of gun deaths compared to the number of gun owners, I was done with it after I posted it. You are the one who has drug it out.

Great. Now tell me of the rules that would have prevent the death in example 12? Go on...

I already did that twice. I'll not post it again.

So you have no answer then? So be it.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Propaganda is what you get from the NRA. Unlike them I deal in the real world.

You wouldn't know the real world if it kicked you in the balls.

Unlike you, who doesn't live in it, sometimes it does.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Exactly what is the downside of teaching this class? It is an elective and only 1 semester. There are obvious advantages, from a safety standpoint. If funding were not the issue, and I see no reason it would be difficult to get NRA or other qualified instructors.
But what are reasons anyone would have for not wanting this class?

More kids dying in gun accidents = greater hope for more laws to limit the 2A rights of the law abiding.
Like we see whenever a school is shot up, anti-gun loons are more than happy to use dead kids to push their agenda.

And the NRA materials being used in the schools as part of the mandatory curriculum has no agenda? No, it has a big ass agenda.

Do you or do you not understand what an elective is, sockboy?