Speak up, are you a D, R, I or other?

[kiwiman127]

I have to bite my tongue of "MODERATES"...


THEY are the MOST unprincipled....they "GO WITH THE FLOW"...which is the chickenshit way out.

No we don't go with the flow, that'd describe ideologues. Ideologues definitely follow the flow of their ideology. Moderates are more so pragmatic as there is no ideology dictating where they should stand on an issue, we think it through. Sometimes I agree with the right, sometimes I agree with the left and most of the time I disagree with both.

What ARE IDEALOGUES but people ensconced in their PRINCIPLE, right or wrong?

BELIEFS...PRACTICAL WORKING KNOWLEDGE...that works into LOGIC.

And Pragmatism is GOOD...but sometimes goes against Human Nature...and LOGIC.

Pragmatism, and LOGIC are not always partners.

Sometimes one must shed pragmatism and side with LOGIC...as logic always wins out.

Moderate sides with pragmatism more oft than not.

Pragmatism is WHAT IS POSSIBLE...but NOT always forseeable...

But then sometimes the entire thing has to be trashed in favour of MORALS...and what are they but TRUE Principles?

Gotta be rough as a Moderate...

Confusing? It should be...

It's not rough or confusing at all. It's just the matter of studying an issue with an open mind.
"Pragmatism is WHAT IS POSSIBLE...but NOT always forseeable.." Isn't dealing with any issue an act of projection? Who knows the future?
My job is strategic planning. I study demographics, projected changes within demographics, industry changes, economics and projected trends to name a few. There are no certainties. But in the end I base my recommendation on projections based on the most reliable and consistent data available from the resources I trust the most based on their track record. And that's basically how I approach politics. I don't follow my emotions, I follow my instincts and values after studying the issue.

 

[The T]

You listed 'Conservative' twice, Wry. FYI.

What does one expect from FLYCATCHER?

He's an IDIOT with a stupid thread that WE are demonstrating IS DUMB in it's premise if He's paid attention?

He's been here a LONG time and should KNOW where people stand.

 

[TNHarley]

easy T
cum catcher is senile
would you make fun of a guy in a wheelchair?

 

[auditor0007]

Former Republican switched to Democrat in 2010. While I do not always agree with the Democrats, I figure supporting a party makes more sense, most of the time, than just saying I'm an independent. Very few people are independent as the vast majority of them tend to vote with one party or the other the vast majority of the time. At this point, there just is no way I could support the Republican Party as it has been taken over by the far right.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Since the 14th has been brought up, consider this in terms of Boehner's failure to call for an up or down vote on the CR:

That's where Section 4 of the 14th Amendment comes in: "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law ... shall not be questioned."

Let's see how those who support what the H. of the Rep. is doing and are strict constitutionalists spin this.

 

[The T]

easy T
cum catcher is senile
would you make fun of a guy in a wheelchair?

He's IN public. He made an insidious thread...HE bears responsibility for it...Margin call...

 

[Wry Catcher]

easy T
cum catcher is senile
would you make fun of a guy in a wheelchair?

Thanks for sharing

 

[TNHarley]

Former Republican switched to Democrat in 2010. While I do not always agree with the Democrats, I figure supporting a party makes more sense, most of the time, than just saying I'm an independent. Very few people are independent as the vast majority of them tend to vote with one party or the other the vast majority of the time. At this point, there just is no way I could support the Republican Party as it has been taken over by the far right.

yeah, we all need someone to follow

 

[Wry Catcher]

Since the 14th has been brought up, consider this in terms of Boehner's failure to call for an up or down vote on the CR:

That's where Section 4 of the 14th Amendment comes in: "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law ... shall not be questioned."

Let's see how those who support what the H. of the Rep. is doing and are strict constitutionalists spin this.

 

[TNHarley]

easy T
cum catcher is senile
would you make fun of a guy in a wheelchair?

Thanks for sharing

no biggie bro. known knowledge

 

[The T]

Since the 14th has been brought up, consider this in terms of Boehner's failure to call for an up or down vote on the CR:

That's where Section 4 of the 14th Amendment comes in: "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law ... shall not be questioned."

Let's see how those who support what the H. of the Rep. is doing and are strict constitutionalists spin this.

Is BOEHNER REQUIRED TO...or is that BECAUSE Dingy Harry REID and OBAMA Demand it?

Boehner doesn't WORK for either of those two ASSHOLES.

BOEHNER is speaking for US...(And about GodDAMNED TIME)

 

[TemplarKormac]

I am a strict constitutionalists, I haven't seen many politicians where I would hesitate to pull the lever on the trap door at their hanging. Virtually every politician takes the oath to support and defend the constitution with no intention to do so and those kind of liars don't deserve to live.

So you believe that State's with a high proportion of non white citizens should have the number of representatives accorded them reduced by the three fifths the factor noted in Art. 1, section 2, of the Constitution. Correct?

DOES this RENDER your THREAD MOOT?


OR did YOU really have a point?

I think Wry wanted to stir the pot and start a free-for-all. It failed.

 

[The T]

So you believe that State's with a high proportion of non white citizens should have the number of representatives accorded them reduced by the three fifths the factor noted in Art. 1, section 2, of the Constitution. Correct?

DOES this RENDER your THREAD MOOT?


OR did YOU really have a point?

I think Wry wanted to stir the pot and start a free-for-all. It failed.

Agreed.

He joins the DERP list...

 

[TNHarley]

Since the 14th has been brought up, consider this in terms of Boehner's failure to call for an up or down vote on the CR:

That's where Section 4 of the 14th Amendment comes in: "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law ... shall not be questioned."

Let's see how those who support what the H. of the Rep. is doing and are strict constitutionalists spin this.

Don't mean mean much now
The debt ceiling is still thought of as Unconstitutional..
If it meant anything(to the NOW) he would use it

 

[OKTexas]

I am a strict constitutionalists, I haven't seen many politicians where I would hesitate to pull the lever on the trap door at their hanging. Virtually every politician takes the oath to support and defend the constitution with no intention to do so and those kind of liars don't deserve to live.

So you believe that State's with a high proportion of non white citizens should have the number of representatives accorded them reduced by the three fifths the factor noted in Art. 1, section 2, of the Constitution. Correct?

DOES this RENDER your THREAD MOOT?


OR did YOU really have a point?

Nope, he had no point, just the usual display of stupidity.

 

[OKTexas]

Since the 14th has been brought up, consider this in terms of Boehner's failure to call for an up or down vote on the CR:

That's where Section 4 of the 14th Amendment comes in: "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law ... shall not be questioned."

Let's see how those who support what the H. of the Rep. is doing and are strict constitutionalists spin this.

All that means is the government pays the debt before all else, default is not a constitutional option. But when did your dear leader ever let that sway his actions?

 

[MisterBeale]

I find such a poll very un-American and divisive. This is precisely the problem with the Nation and exactly why the government is shut down right now.

It is against everything I stand for. What I stand for is, "THE END OF POLITICS."

The elites that run the system seek to divide. This is exactly what they want. They want everyone to believe that there are different points of view, that there are differences of opinion on issues, and not a way to find the best solution.

Once we can find the facts, once we learn to think logically, if we throw off our blinders, there is a solution, we agree to live as one people, under the government that was once agreed upon. I think part of the problem, that I have seen on this forum, is there are genuinely people in this nation that HATE the principles of the Constitution. They have said as much. The government that the Constitution laid out was, and is, the best on the entire planet. It is the model by which the UN charter was founded. Certain individuals would piss on that. There can be no room for "compromise," or understanding with those in our government, if they want to get rid of the ground rules.

Believe me, it seems the current administration has actually classified people that hold true to the principles of the first administration, as, "terrorists." However, if he didn't, we would ALL get along just great. We would have no need for any "parties" or factions.

Divide et impera​

If the backers of the political elites, the financial elites can convince people that there is a difference in point of view, than there will only be policy changes on the smaller issues. On the large issues, nothing substantial will ever occur.

This was the warning, the dire danger to freedom and liberty that Washington warned about in his farewell address. It is why there is no need for parties in an educated democratic republic.

Excerpted from Washington's Farewell Address 1796;​

Liberty itself will find in such a government, with powers properly distributed and adjusted, its surest guardian. It is, indeed, little else than a name, where the government is too feeble to withstand the enterprises of faction, to confine each member of the society within the limits prescribed by the laws, and to maintain all in the secure and tranquil enjoyment of the rights of person and property.

I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally.

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.

Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight), the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

There is an opinion that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the government and serve to keep alive the spirit of liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in governments of a monarchical cast, patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.

If we don't unite, NOW, more than ever, we have two things to look forward to. A war in the middle east, and a default on the dollar.

And this, I know, I will be crucified for by all on this forum. I will be called a nutter. I'll be labeled "conspiracy theorist." All sorts of things. But I love the nation I was born and raised in, and I love civilization. I don't want people to riot and give our ever growing police state the excuse it desires to take away freedom and liberty. Because, let's face it, THEY HAVE FAILED US, ALL OF THEM. THEY ARE IDIOTS. They don't want to solve the problem, they want to burn it all down and create something radically new. Something draconian. Something that doesn't include liberty for the common man. Something that has nothing to do with the BILL OF RIGHTS.

They have refused to do their job. The only thing they have done is to continue to increase spending and the size of the debt by giving away programs to their constituents. Republicans to the military industrial complex, Democrats to the welfare state. Both of them to Wall street and the financial sector. Now, the bill has come due.

Neither is to Blame. It is simple mathematics. Just like the Soviet System was going to inevitably collapse if they didn't do something, so will ours. I am afraid Ron Paul was probably our last chance to get our fiscal house in order. But the corruption on Wall Street fed into the Main Stream press and conditioned the minds of those who could not, or would not think for themselves. It has nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with SIMPLE ARTHRITIC. THAT IS WHY NOT A SINGLE BUDGET HAS BEEN, OR COULD BE PASSED FOR YEARS. I am beginning to think a budget will never be passed again.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo-jgXL-XIQ]The Truth About the Government Shutdown - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Locke11_21]

I'm registered Libertarian. It sickens me to see both the Democrat Party and Republican Party lie to America about how they will downsize government and cut government spending. George W. Bush and establishment Republicans ran on downsizing government, yet they gave us the largest increase of government since Lyndon B. Johnson. Democrats are even worse, this regime we have now is the worst ever.

Republicans had the audacity to give us this egregious violation of our constitution with the Anti-Patriot act, yeah, I know the real name of that act, but refuse to call it that, and Democrats went right along with it. The name of that act...implying that if you did not agree with it, you are not patriotic.

The village idiot we have occupying the White House was against needless wiretapping, then look what administration gets caught with a massive expansion of wiretapping, uhh....NSA scandal. Why didn't the Democrat Party when they had control of the House, Senate and Presidency repeal the Anti-Patriot Act?

The problem is, both of these parties are loaded with America-hating progressives whose goal is a socialist utopia. The slight bit of hope is the growing Libertarian movement in the Republican Party, and how they are upsetting the establishment Republican progressives. I loved seeing Rand Paul hand Chris Christie's ass to him. I sure would like to see Ron Paul get back in office.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

So you believe that State's with a high proportion of non white citizens should have the number of representatives accorded them reduced by the three fifths the factor noted in Art. 1, section 2, of the Constitution. Correct?

So you believe the Fourteenth Amendment is not a part of the Constitution?

Of course I know the 14th is part of the Constitution, I wonder if those who are strict constitutionalists do.

Uh huh. More like you just wanted to make a weak attempt at portraying somebody as a racist despite there being no basis for it.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Since the 14th has been brought up, consider this in terms of Boehner's failure to call for an up or down vote on the CR:

That's where Section 4 of the 14th Amendment comes in: "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law ... shall not be questioned."

Let's see how those who support what the H. of the Rep. is doing and are strict constitutionalists spin this.

Are you going off-topic in your own thread?