Steven Spielberg's movie about Lincoln is pure bullshit !!!!!!!

He did not believe that he could end slavery, genius, until Stanton convinced him his war time powers in Article II allowed him to begin the end of slavery in the areas that were still rebellious on 1 Jan 1863.
 
Thomas DiLorenzo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See also: Lincoln Unmasked and The Real Lincoln

DiLorenzo has devoted much effort to historical revisionism, focusing on what he has been called "the myth of Lincoln" as a political and historical phenomenon. He said, "Lincoln is on record time after time rejecting the idea of racial equality. But whenever anyone brings this up, the Lincoln partisans go to the extreme to smear the bearer of bad news." [5] In the same vein, DiLorenzo has spoken out in favor of the secession of the Confederate States of America, defending the right of these states to secede in a view similar to that of abolitionist Lysander Spooner.[6] He has also criticized the crediting of the New Deal for ending the Great Depression.[7]

In 2002, DiLorenzo debated Harry V. Jaffa on the merits of Abraham Lincoln's statesmanship prior to and during the civil war.

DiLorenzo is a frequent speaker at von Mises Institute events, and offers several online courses on political subjects on the Mises Academy platform.[3]

He was formerly an affiliated lecturer of the League of the South Institute, the research arm of the pro-secession League of the South[8] He has denied any lasting affiliation, noting that he only gave a few lectures there shortly after its founding.[9][10]

The Southern Poverty Law Center considers DiLorenzo one of the most important intellectuals "who form the core of the modern neo-Confederate movement." They believe DiLorenzo's depiction of president Abraham Lincoln paints Lincoln as a "paragon of wickedness, a man secretly intent on destroying states' rights and building a massive federal government."[11]


Uh-Huh. 'Nuff Said.

Yeah sure....You might try reading his books rather than believing the propaganda from Wikipedia.

His books are extensively documented. He uses Lincoln's own words and actions (which clearly expose Lincoln for the tyrant he was and yet you and others apparently are incapable of thinking for yourselves) to back his conclusions...unlike the Lincoln sycophants who chose to believe lies promoted by the big government establishment.

And....and....and.....DiLorenzo is NOT the only historian who disputes the Lincoln myth you and others foolishly accept. There are many.

H.L. Mencken on Dishonesty Abe's absurdly stupid Gettysburg Address once wrote, "The Union soldiers in the battle [of Gettysburg] actually fought against self determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves."
 
Jroc, reading history is good for the soul if you read it objectively.

Yes, Lincoln was anti-slavery before 1862, but he was not developing into an abolitionist before the summer of 1862.

AL told the departed states that they could return to Union voluntarily and maintain their slaves. That changed by the summer of 1862 when Lincoln realized that South would have to be conquered and in order to do that, the abolition of slavery was morally and militarily necessary.
 
Jroc, reading history is good for the soul if you read it objectively.

Yes, Lincoln was anti-slavery before 1862, but he was not developing into an abolitionist before the summer of 1862.

AL told the departed states that they could return to Union voluntarily and maintain their slaves. That changed by the summer of 1862 when Lincoln realized that South would have to be conquered and in order to do that, the abolition of slavery was morally and militarily necessary.

Thank you
 
Antil-slavery and abolitionism were not the same thing, and they were not differences of degree rather than kind.

Jroc, reading history is good for the soul if you read it objectively.

Yes, Lincoln was anti-slavery before 1862, but he was not developing into an abolitionist before the summer of 1862.

AL told the departed states that they could return to Union voluntarily and maintain their slaves. That changed by the summer of 1862 when Lincoln realized that South would have to be conquered and in order to do that, the abolition of slavery was morally and militarily necessary.

Thank you
 
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It is easy for those of us capable of reason, that this statement clearly reveals his intentions to commit war upon fellow Americans, should they refuse the national authority of collecting tariffs.

So the South fught the Civil War to prevent the federal government from collecting tariffs??? That might have been true when Andy Jackson threatened to march the army to South Carolina in1832 and hang all the traitors, led by his former Vice resident John C Calhoun. On May 1, 1833, Jackson wrote, "the tariff was only the pretext, and disunion and southern confederacy the real object. The next pretext will be the negro, or slavery question." [Correspondence of Andrew Jackson, Vol. V, p. 72.]
 
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It is easy for those of us capable of reason, that this statement clearly reveals his intentions to commit war upon fellow Americans, should they refuse the national authority of collecting tariffs.

So the South fught the Civil War to prevent the federal government from collecting tariffs??? That might have been true when Andy Jackson threatened to march the army to South Carolina in1832 and hang all the traitors, led by his former Vice resident John C Calhoun. On May 1, 1833, Jackson wrote, "the tariff was only the pretext, and disunion and southern confederacy the real object. The next pretext will be the negro, or slavery question." [Correspondence of Andrew Jackson, Vol. V, p. 72.]

You failed to read or comprehend Dishonest Abe's inaugural address. He clearly states he will pursue military action against any state that fails to do what the national authority demands. Those who think tariffs were not behind Lincoln's aggressive military actions against fellow Americans, thus committing treason, are not thinking.
 
It is easy for those of us capable of reason, that this statement clearly reveals his intentions to commit war upon fellow Americans, should they refuse the national authority of collecting tariffs.

So the South fught the Civil War to prevent the federal government from collecting tariffs??? That might have been true when Andy Jackson threatened to march the army to South Carolina in1832 and hang all the traitors, led by his former Vice resident John C Calhoun. On May 1, 1833, Jackson wrote, "the tariff was only the pretext, and disunion and southern confederacy the real object. The next pretext will be the negro, or slavery question." [Correspondence of Andrew Jackson, Vol. V, p. 72.]

Jon Meacham's, "American Lion" is well worth reading for those who want (i.e. those not willfully ignorant) to understand our divisive political history.
 
Lincoln said the South must (1) recognize federal authority, (2) accept constitutional and electoral process, and (3) no slavery in the territories.

If you can get tariffs under (1), then, oK, but tariffs were a very minor issue.

It is easy for those of us capable of reason, that this statement clearly reveals his intentions to commit war upon fellow Americans, should they refuse the national authority of collecting tariffs.

So the South fught the Civil War to prevent the federal government from collecting tariffs??? That might have been true when Andy Jackson threatened to march the army to South Carolina in1832 and hang all the traitors, led by his former Vice resident John C Calhoun. On May 1, 1833, Jackson wrote, "the tariff was only the pretext, and disunion and southern confederacy the real object. The next pretext will be the negro, or slavery question." [Correspondence of Andrew Jackson, Vol. V, p. 72.]

You failed to read or comprehend Dishonest Abe's inaugural address. He clearly states he will pursue military action against any state that fails to do what the national authority demands. Those who think tariffs were not behind Lincoln's aggressive military actions against fellow Americans, thus committing treason, are not thinking.
 
(Or, How a Real Statesman Would Have Ended Slavery)
by Thomas J. DiLorenzo


"Every other country in the world got rid of slavery without a civil war . . . . How much would that cost compared to killing 600,000 Americans when the hatred lingered for 100 years."

~ Ron Paul to Tim Russert on "Meet the Press" in 2007

The new Steven Spielberg movie about Lincoln is entirely based on a fiction, to use a mild term. As longtime Ebony magazine executive editor Lerone Bennett, Jr. explained in his book, Forced into Glory: Abraham Lincoln’s White Dream: "There is a pleasant fiction that Lincoln . . . became a flaming advocate of the [Thirteenth] amendment and used the power of his office to buy votes to ensure its passage. There is no evidence, as David H. Donald has noted, to support that fiction". (Emphasis added).

In fact, as Bennett shows, it was the genuine abolitionists in Congress who forced Lincoln to support the Thirteenth Amendment that ended slavery, something he refused to do for fifty-four of his fifty-six years. The truth, in other words, is precisely the opposite of the story told in Spielberg’s Lincoln movie, which is based on the book Team of Rivals by the confessed plagiarist/court historian Doris Kearns-Goodwin. (My LRC review of her book was entitled "A Plagiarist’s Contribution to Lincoln Idolatry").

.

Does Ron Paul feel the same way about the American Revolution??

What does the Revolutionary War have to do with the Civil War? They are two totally separate and distinct wars that had nothing to do with one another.
 
Lincoln said the South must (1) recognize federal authority, (2) accept constitutional and electoral process, and (3) no slavery in the territories.

If you can get tariffs under (1), then, oK, but tariffs were a very minor issue.

So the South fught the Civil War to prevent the federal government from collecting tariffs??? That might have been true when Andy Jackson threatened to march the army to South Carolina in1832 and hang all the traitors, led by his former Vice resident John C Calhoun. On May 1, 1833, Jackson wrote, "the tariff was only the pretext, and disunion and southern confederacy the real object. The next pretext will be the negro, or slavery question." [Correspondence of Andrew Jackson, Vol. V, p. 72.]

You failed to read or comprehend Dishonest Abe's inaugural address. He clearly states he will pursue military action against any state that fails to do what the national authority demands. Those who think tariffs were not behind Lincoln's aggressive military actions against fellow Americans, thus committing treason, are not thinking.

You admit that Dishonest Abe demanded the South recognize Federal authority....but somehow miss the point.

Lincoln clearly states, in his first inaugural address, as POTUS that he has the right, if necessary, to use military FORCE to impose upon any state the will of the national authority. He fully believed he could kill Americans to impose the will of the national authority....and did just that. I think we can agree on that....

Now, what was the national authority (aka Dishonest Abe/R Party) trying to impose on the southern states in 1860? BINGO....TARIFFS!!!!!!! This is the MAIN reason why the south chose to secede and why Lincoln chose treason by committing troops to murder fellow Americans.

Dishonest Abe was our first Neocon/statist president. He damaged our republic irreparably....then assholes like Wilson, Hoover, FDR, Truman, LBJ, Bushs, Obama....made things much much worse. But, it all stated with the lying cheating tyrant...Dishonest Abe.
 
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Saw the movie last weekend

It shows Lincoln the politician. Selling patronage jobs to lame duck Democrats for their vote on the 13th amendment. Lying to Congress about ongoing negotiations with the south to end the war. Very few votes were obtained arguing the nobility of freeing the slaves

Good movie...shows Washington politics has not changed all that much
 
I am helping Gipper on some errors he is making.

No concrete evidence exists that tariffs were the administration's nefarious reasons for waging war against rebellious states.

Lincoln made quite clear that the "South must (1) recognize federal authority, (2) accept constitutional and electoral process, and (3) no slavery in the territories." Tariffs were constitutional and fall within (1) above.

Yes, no doubt that the national government had the authority to force its will on rebellious states who failed to meet conditions 1 to 3 above.

Our first statis president was President Washington who permitted the first US national bank as well as the funding and assumption measures.

Gipper may not, any more than EB and others, pick and choose their favoritie cherries out of the historical fruit basket, and not be called out.
 
I've said it before, and I will say it again. The biggest mistake this country ever made was bringing slaves into the country. The second biggest mistake was to not ship them all back to where they came from once they were freed.
 
I've said it before, and I will say it again. The biggest mistake this country ever made was bringing slaves into the country. The second biggest mistake was to not ship them all back to where they came from once they were freed.

God, that is stupid
 
BBD, slavery and its effects are our burdern to carry to the end of our country's existence.
 
I've said it before, and I will say it again. The biggest mistake this country ever made was bringing slaves into the country. The second biggest mistake was to not ship them all back to where they came from once they were freed.

God, that is stupid

Yeah - Like you're some sort of expert on intelligence. Fuck off.

No, that is REALLY Stupid

Not as in that is a stupid idea, but the very act of posting puts your intellectual capability in serious doubt
 
God, that is stupid

Yeah - Like you're some sort of expert on intelligence. Fuck off.

No, that is REALLY Stupid

Not as in that is a stupid idea, but the very act of posting puts your intellectual capability in serious doubt

It is a stupid idea. But remember that Dishonest Abe wanted to do just that. In fact, he met with generals in the oval office a couple days before his death trying to figure out a plan to deport all African Americans back to Africa. He was a radical racist even for his time.

Can you imagine the death and suffering blacks would have experienced being rounded up and shipped back to Africa in 1865? That would have been a historical event so disgusting and unbelievable....like something out of Stalin's USSR or Mao's China...and yet the fool intended to do just that.

One might conclude that John Wilkes Booth was a hero in saving millions of African Americans from certain death.
 
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