Teachers Can Now Carry Guns As Safety Officers In Missouri....

[turtledude]

most police officers never use their pistol, never engage in a gun fight...hence...they aren't qualified to engage a shooter either...

Yet they are trained for such an encounter and have more experience in handling stressful encounters
A chemistry teacher is not

I wonder why non-LEO civilians have higher hit ratios and less wrongful shooting incidents then cops

answer-most people don't become cops because they like shooting

many CCW holders do and practice a lot

Bull shit

Want to go into all the "I thought it was a burglar" incidents with homeowners or the number of deaths when an innocent child gets ahold of daddy's weapon.

math seems to be beyond your intellectual capacity. figure all the CCW holders and all the accidents caused by CCW Holders and its a very small number

 

[turtledude]

T

Who wants to place bets on which happens first - a teacher will "protect" their students from a school shooter, or some sort of accident will put a bullet in an innocent student or teacher?

Kids are around concealed carry folks all the time and don't know it and aren't injured. What makes you think it will be different in school?

I hate to break it to you, but people are accidentally injured by legally owned guns every day.

Kids are being shot by concealed carryers every day? Link?

There are between 15,000 and 20,000 accidental gun injuries per year in the US.

there are over a half million accidental bicycle injuries a year. why aren't you bitching to ban them?

if almost all bike owners were PERCEIVED to be conservatives, he would be

Link to where some maniac burst into a school/public meeting/movie theater/shopping mall/bridge/clock tower/church/arriving firemen/former workplace and started biking people to death please?

people like you want maniacs to be able to kill and a kill some more without anyone being able to fight back

why do you gun banners try to make things safer for active killers?

Link to where I've ever called for "gun bans" is ................. where again?

Not the brightest bulb in the light tower I guess....

You don't have to you retarded wombat. Your mindset is that of a gun banner

 

[Pogo]

No they want high visibility targets with shock appeal

Wrong again...almost all mass shooters pick locations because they are gun free zones...the Colorado theater shooter is the classic example...he could have gone to several theaters closer to where he lived...he skipped them...why? They did not have a "gun free zone" policy...the theater he travelled to, 20 minutes from his home did have a gun free zone policy...

These guys want to kill innocent people who are unable to stop them...they are not looking to shoot it out with police, because police shoot back, and they commit suicide or surrender as soon as someone confronts them with a gun...

Complete unmitigated.100% USDA prime Bullshit.

Shooters pick their scenes where they have access to victims. Inside the walls of a school, movie theater, restaurant... on the ground viewed from a high perch... walking the streets behind a car with its trunk lock removed serving as a sniper's nest.... a gathering of people out to attend a political speech or religious gathering.... firemen responding to a fire.... "gun-free zones" my ass. What you're parroting is a myth meme with nothing behind it but hot air that smells of bovine excretion.

Show your links to back it up. And before you do, fair warning: I shoot back.

Moreover your mindless myth meme (hereinafter "3M") directly contradicts your partner meme, the one about passing laws and expecting criminals to follow them. Having it both ways: Priceless.

Poster please.

 

[2aguy]

Here is a look...

The Facts about Mass Shootings National Review Online

Gun-free zones have been the most popular response to previous mass killings. But many law-enforcement officials say they are actually counterproductive. “Guns are already banned in schools. That is why the shootings happen in schools. A school is a ‘helpless-victim zone,’” says Richard Mack, a former Arizona sheriff. “Preventing any adult at a school from having access to a firearm eliminates any chance the killer can be stopped in time to prevent a rampage,” Jim Kouri, the public-information officer of the National Association of Chiefs of Police, told me earlier this year at the time of the Aurora, Colo., Batman-movie shooting. Indeed, there have been many instances — from the high-school shooting by Luke Woodham in Mississippi, to the New Life Church shooting in Colorado Springs, Colo. — where a killer has been stopped after someone got a gun from a parked car or elsewhere and confronted the shooter.

Economists John Lott and William Landes conducted a groundbreaking study in 1999, and found that a common theme of mass shootings is that they occur in places where guns are banned and killers know everyone will be unarmed, such as shopping malls and schools.

I spoke with Lott after the Newtown shooting, and he confirmed that nothing has changed to alter his findings. He noted that the Aurora shooter, who killed twelve people earlier this year, had a choice of seven movie theaters that were showing the Batman movie he was obsessed with. All were within a 20-minute drive of his home. The Cinemark Theater the killer ultimately chose wasn’t the closest, but it was the only one that posted signs saying it banned concealed handguns carried by law-abiding individuals. All of the other theaters allowed the approximately 4 percent of Colorado adults who have a concealed-handgun permit to enter with their weapons.

“Disarming law-abiding citizens leaves them as sitting ducks,” Lott told me. “A couple hundred people were in the Cinemark Theater when the killer arrived. There is an extremely high probability that one or more of them would have had a legal concealed handgun with him if they had not been banned.”

Lott offers a final damning statistic: “With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”

 

[Pogo]

T

Who wants to place bets on which happens first - a teacher will "protect" their students from a school shooter, or some sort of accident will put a bullet in an innocent student or teacher?

Kids are around concealed carry folks all the time and don't know it and aren't injured. What makes you think it will be different in school?

I hate to break it to you, but people are accidentally injured by legally owned guns every day.

Kids are being shot by concealed carryers every day? Link?

There are between 15,000 and 20,000 accidental gun injuries per year in the US.

there are over a half million accidental bicycle injuries a year. why aren't you bitching to ban them?

if almost all bike owners were PERCEIVED to be conservatives, he would be

Link to where some maniac burst into a school/public meeting/movie theater/shopping mall/bridge/clock tower/church/arriving firemen/former workplace and started biking people to death please?

people like you want maniacs to be able to kill and a kill some more without anyone being able to fight back

why do you gun banners try to make things safer for active killers?

Link to where I've ever called for "gun bans" is ................. where again?

Not the brightest bulb in the light tower I guess....

You don't have to you retarded wombat. Your mindset is that of a gun banner

No luck on those links I see. So you blame me for making you a liar by not posting your strawmen. I should have seen your stupidity coming and set you up in advance so your asssssssss-umptions could be right.

Nothing like taking responsibility for your own posts, huh Captain Butthurt?

 

[2aguy]

More on gun free zones...from the killers themselves...

CPRC in the Philadelphia Inquirer Killers seek gun-free zones for attacks - Crime Prevention Research Center

Elliot Rodger, who shot to death three people in Santa Barbara a couple of weeks ago, explained why he picked his target. His 141-page “Manifesto” makes it clear that he feared someone with a gun would stop him before he was able to kill enough people. He wrote:

“Another option was Deltopia, a day in which many young people pour in from all over the state to have a spring break party on Del Playa Street. I figured this would be the perfect day to attack Isla Vista, but after watching Youtube videos of previous Deltopia parties, I saw that there were way too many cops walking around on such an event. It would be impossible to kill enough of my enemies before being dispatched by those damnable cops.”

The Canadian mass shooter, Justin Bourque, also understood the importance of gun-free zones. On his Facebook page, Bourque posted comics poking fun at how gun-free zones make these crimes possible. One depicted a completely defenseless victim pleading with a man pointing a gun at him: “But wait … there’s a GUN BAN in this city … you can’t do this, we passed a law!” The gunman is shown thinking to himself: “Great, another one of these fruit loops.”

Bourque knew that no civilians would be able to legally carry a gun to stop him (since the 1970s, Canada has banned permitted concealed handguns).

The killer at the Aurora, Colo., movie theater shooting in July 2012 lived within a 20-minute drive of seven movie theaters that were showing the premier of the Batman movie. He could have simply chosen the theater that was closest to his apartment or the one with the largest auditoriums in the state. Instead, he picked the single theater where guns were banned and the victims would be defenseless.

And take Dylan Klebold, one of the two Columbine killers. He had been closely following and strongly opposed Colorado legislation that would have let citizens carry a concealed handgun. In fact, the Columbine attack occurred on the very day the bill was scheduled for final passage. Presumably, Klebold feared being stopped during his attack by someone with a weapon.

 

[Pogo]

Here is a look...

The Facts about Mass Shootings National Review Online

Gun-free zones have been the most popular response to previous mass killings. But many law-enforcement officials say they are actually counterproductive. “Guns are already banned in schools. That is why the shootings happen in schools. A school is a ‘helpless-victim zone,’” says Richard Mack, a former Arizona sheriff. “Preventing any adult at a school from having access to a firearm eliminates any chance the killer can be stopped in time to prevent a rampage,” Jim Kouri, the public-information officer of the National Association of Chiefs of Police, told me earlier this year at the time of the Aurora, Colo., Batman-movie shooting. Indeed, there have been many instances — from the high-school shooting by Luke Woodham in Mississippi, to the New Life Church shooting in Colorado Springs, Colo. — where a killer has been stopped after someone got a gun from a parked car or elsewhere and confronted the shooter.

Economists John Lott and William Landes conducted a groundbreaking study in 1999, and found that a common theme of mass shootings is that they occur in places where guns are banned and killers know everyone will be unarmed, such as shopping malls and schools.

I spoke with Lott after the Newtown shooting, and he confirmed that nothing has changed to alter his findings. He noted that the Aurora shooter, who killed twelve people earlier this year, had a choice of seven movie theaters that were showing the Batman movie he was obsessed with. All were within a 20-minute drive of his home. The Cinemark Theater the killer ultimately chose wasn’t the closest, but it was the only one that posted signs saying it banned concealed handguns carried by law-abiding individuals. All of the other theaters allowed the approximately 4 percent of Colorado adults who have a concealed-handgun permit to enter with their weapons.

“Disarming law-abiding citizens leaves them as sitting ducks,” Lott told me. “A couple hundred people were in the Cinemark Theater when the killer arrived. There is an extremely high probability that one or more of them would have had a legal concealed handgun with him if they had not been banned.”

Lott offers a final damning statistic: “With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”

More bullshit.

Oak Creek was not a "gun-free zone". Websters' house was not a "gun-free zone". The people on DC streets shot by John Muhammad and his accomplice were not in a "gun-free zone". Nor was Richard Poplawski's house.

Similarly there's no evidence the Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church where Adkisson went to "kill liberals" wasn't a "gun-free zone". Nor the UT campus in Austin; nor Luby's in Killeen.

Among the 62 mass shootings over the last 30 years that we studied, not a single case includes evidence that the killer chose to target a place because it banned guns. To the contrary, in many of the cases there was clearly another motive for the choice of location. For example, 20 were workplace shootings, most of which involved perpetrators who felt wronged by employers and colleagues. --- full study/story here.​

Coincidence is not equal to causation; Lanza went to Sandy Hook not because of what regulations were or were not in effect but because he was intimately connected with the school. Duh. Your placing your own reasoning in James Holmes' head with no evidence whatsoever is just that -- more bullshit. And your Lott bullshit article is refuted right here. Specifically.

Let's run that line again so it sinks in:
"Among the 62 mass shootings over the last 30 years that we studied, not a single case includes evidence that the killer chose to target a place because it banned guns". As in Zero.

As the bullshit flinger, your task is to prove your bullshit is not with evidence. So where's this list of shooter statements explaining their rationale then?

You lose.

 

[2aguy]

Among the 62 mass shootings over the last 30 years that we studied, not a single case includes evidence that the killer chose to target a place because it banned guns.

Apparently the mother jones article didn't include the 4 mass shootings I am listing because two were stopped in the planning stages...and in their notes the killers planned on going to places that were gun free zones...

 

[Pogo]

More on gun free zones...from the killers themselves...

CPRC in the Philadelphia Inquirer Killers seek gun-free zones for attacks - Crime Prevention Research Center

Elliot Rodger, who shot to death three people in Santa Barbara a couple of weeks ago, explained why he picked his target. His 141-page “Manifesto” makes it clear that he feared someone with a gun would stop him before he was able to kill enough people. He wrote:

“Another option was Deltopia, a day in which many young people pour in from all over the state to have a spring break party on Del Playa Street. I figured this would be the perfect day to attack Isla Vista, but after watching Youtube videos of previous Deltopia parties, I saw that there were way too many cops walking around on such an event. It would be impossible to kill enough of my enemies before being dispatched by those damnable cops.”

The Canadian mass shooter, Justin Bourque, also understood the importance of gun-free zones. On his Facebook page, Bourque posted comics poking fun at how gun-free zones make these crimes possible. One depicted a completely defenseless victim pleading with a man pointing a gun at him: “But wait … there’s a GUN BAN in this city … you can’t do this, we passed a law!” The gunman is shown thinking to himself: “Great, another one of these fruit loops.”

Bourque knew that no civilians would be able to legally carry a gun to stop him (since the 1970s, Canada has banned permitted concealed handguns).

The killer at the Aurora, Colo., movie theater shooting in July 2012 lived within a 20-minute drive of seven movie theaters that were showing the premier of the Batman movie. He could have simply chosen the theater that was closest to his apartment or the one with the largest auditoriums in the state. Instead, he picked the single theater where guns were banned and the victims would be defenseless.

And take Dylan Klebold, one of the two Columbine killers. He had been closely following and strongly opposed Colorado legislation that would have let citizens carry a concealed handgun. In fact, the Columbine attack occurred on the very day the bill was scheduled for final passage. Presumably, Klebold feared being stopped during his attack by someone with a weapon.

You really are a special kind of dense arentchya?

This is entirely speculation to feed your 3M. You continue to try to speak for Holmes, who said no such thing. And the presence of lots of cops does not make a "gun-free zone". The word "presumably" should have served as a clue.

Special kind of dense.

 

[2aguy]

Teen who planned school massacre 8216 I think I 8217 m really mentally ill 8217 myfox8.com

He’d planned to set off “numerous bombs” during the lunch hour at Waseca Junior/Senior High School, then kill the school resource officer, police said.

Then he’d unleash gunfire on students until police officers arrived. He wanted to die but thought it cowardly to turn the gun on himself the way Lanza did.

He planned on killing the resource officer first...why? Because then he would have created his own gun free zone by killing the only armed person on the campus...then he would have several minutes to kill before police arrived.

 

[2aguy]

Another plot stopped...and their plans to create their own gun free zone...

VIDEO Update Hawkins teens planning school massacre studied Columbine Kingsport Times-News

The journals reportedly contained detailed handwritten notes about the boy's attempts to recruit other students into his massacre plot, as well as floor plans of the school, and plans about how the attacks would be carried out.

The plan included killing the school resource officer first, and outlined where the maximum number of students could be killed — in the lunch room and hallways.

Read more: VIDEO Update: Hawkins teens planning school massacre studied Columbine | Kingsport Times-News VIDEO Update Hawkins teens planning school massacre studied Columbine Kingsport Times-News
Follow us: @timesnewsonline on Twitter | timesnews on Facebook

 

[Pogo]

Teen who planned school massacre 8216 I think I 8217 m really mentally ill 8217 myfox8.com

He’d planned to set off “numerous bombs” during the lunch hour at Waseca Junior/Senior High School, then kill the school resource officer, police said.

Then he’d unleash gunfire on students until police officers arrived. He wanted to die but thought it cowardly to turn the gun on himself the way Lanza did.

He planned on killing the resource officer first...why? Because then he would have created his own gun free zone by killing the only armed person on the campus...then he would have several minutes to kill before police arrived.

Your entire article never mentions "gun-free zones" or any rationale related to it. At all.

You're a dishonest hack.

 

[Pogo]

Another plot stopped...and their plans to create their own gun free zone...

VIDEO Update Hawkins teens planning school massacre studied Columbine Kingsport Times-News

The journals reportedly contained detailed handwritten notes about the boy's attempts to recruit other students into his massacre plot, as well as floor plans of the school, and plans about how the attacks would be carried out.

The plan included killing the school resource officer first, and outlined where the maximum number of students could be killed — in the lunch room and hallways.

Read more: VIDEO Update: Hawkins teens planning school massacre studied Columbine | Kingsport Times-News VIDEO Update Hawkins teens planning school massacre studied Columbine Kingsport Times-News
Follow us: @timesnewsonline on Twitter | timesnews on Facebook

Neither does that one. Not a word about "gun-free zones" or any such motivation. Anywhere.

Lying hack.

Everything you've posted on this has been shot down as bullshit.

From these and Turtle's blatant strawmen t would appear gun festishists can only argue from dishonesty, hair-on-fire emotion and naked fallacies.

Interesting.

 

[2aguy]

yeah, they wanted to target the only guy with a gun first so they could have their own gun free zone...since they knew it would take police minutes to arrive...and in mass shootings most deaths occur in the minutes it takes police to arrive...

 

[2aguy]

Again...this killer specifically mentions the gun free zone...happy?

the Canadian mass shooter, Justin Bourque, also understood the importance of gun-free zones. On his Facebook page, Bourque posted comics poking fun at how gun-free zones make these crimes possible. One depicted a completely defenseless victim pleading with a man pointing a gun at him: “But wait … there’s a GUN BAN in this city … you can’t do this, we passed a law!” The gunman is shown thinking to himself: “Great, another one of these fruit loops.”

 

[Pogo]

yeah, they wanted to target the only guy with a gun first so they could have their own gun free zone...since they knew it would take police minutes to arrive...and in mass shootings most deaths occur in the minutes it takes police to arrive...

Denser and Denserer. Coming soon to a theater near you. From Twentieth Century Fallacy.

 

[2aguy]

Almost all mass shootings occur in "gun free zones" and you can lie about that all you want...but the truth is the truth...they even plan on making their own gun free zones so they can kill more people...

 

[2aguy]

nor Luby's in Killeen.

Thanks for bringing up Luby's cafe...it was a gun free zone...the law made it illegal to carry a gun into the resuarant...as testified to by Hupp..so you are wrong again....

 

[Pogo]

Almost all mass shootings occur in "gun free zones" and you can lie about that all you want...but the truth is the truth...they even plan on making their own gun free zones so they can kill more people...

...aaaaaand he lies yet again.

I just listed for you several mass shootings that were not at all at "gun-free zones". Yet you go on bleating with your head in the sand.

Special kind of dense.

 

[2aguy]

On Luby's cafe...a legally mandated gun free zone...

Luby s shooting - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The law had been campaigned for by Suzanna Hupp, who was present at the time of the shooting where both of her parents were shot and killed. She later expressed regret about deciding to leave her gun in her car lest she risk possibly running afoul of the state's concealed weapons laws; during the shootings, she reached for her weapon but then remembered that it was "a hundred feet away in my car."[22] She testified across the country in support of concealed handgun laws, and was elected to the Texas House of Representatives in 1996.[23] The law was signed by then-Governor George W. Bush.[24]