The 50 most developed countries in the world and Universal Healthcare.

[Rustic]

The collective never knows what’s best for the individual

 

[forkup]

Undoubtedly there are some treatments that the US gives access to, which are less available in other countries. On the other hand the reverse is also true. I'm European, my wife's American. Unlike you, I have actual first hand experience in both healthcare and social systems. Are you willing to make an actual comparison?

Sounds like what you're asking is if we're willing to accept your anecdotal "evidence" as representative of both systems in general.

The answer would be no.

Nope not anecdotal evidence. Neither would I claim to speak for all countries that have socialized medicine, unless I'm sure it's true for all of them.

No? So what is "I have first hand experience of both" supposed to be, then?

I've been to the US for extended periods. My mother in law was an RN in the State of New York. In fact I have numerous friends and family living in the US. I live in Belgium with my wife.

Didn't ask, don't care. Possibly your next post could involve answering the question, rather than inundating me with unsolicited, unwanted, irrelevant personal info.

You asked me to give what my first hand experience is. I directly answered that question. So now you claim you didn't want to know? You do realize that I can read right?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Sounds like what you're asking is if we're willing to accept your anecdotal "evidence" as representative of both systems in general.

The answer would be no.

Nope not anecdotal evidence. Neither would I claim to speak for all countries that have socialized medicine, unless I'm sure it's true for all of them.

No? So what is "I have first hand experience of both" supposed to be, then?

I've been to the US for extended periods. My mother in law was an RN in the State of New York. In fact I have numerous friends and family living in the US. I live in Belgium with my wife.

Good deal. Fact remains, rich people from other countries come
Here for treatment.

Fact remains people in the US die because some medical care is prohibitively expensive for a significant portion of the populace. I'm sure there are circumstances were medical care in the US is preferable. I'm talking about what medical care system is better for the LARGEST percentage of the populace.

Fact remains that since you stated it as a fact, but provided no proof of it, it's not a fact. It's just what you "know" is true, because you're "sure" of it, but have never bothered to verify it.

 

[g5000]

Neither Trump nor the GOP had an Obamacare replacement.

And you know it, cucks.

They had no legislation. Zip. Zero.

No legislation to reduce government involvement in health care. No legislation to reduce costs to "a tiny fraction".

It was all a hoax.

And you just sit there and take it, cucks.

So when the day comes when UHC is enacted, remember you played a part by being fucking stupid parroting rubes.

We don’t need the federal government involved in healthcare

I agree!

What you cucks don't seem to grasp is the simple fact that the only way to get govermnent OUT of health care is through legislation.

So as I said:

No legislation to reduce government involvement in health care. No legislation to reduce costs to "a tiny fraction".

It was all a hoax.

And you just sit there and take it, cucks.

 

[g5000]

I've outlined many times exactly what sorts of legislation we need to get government out of health care and to reduce costs at the same time.

That's more than the GOP has done. Which is a GIANT CLUE YOU ARE BEING HOAXED, cucks.

Wakey wakey!

 

[forkup]

Nope not anecdotal evidence. Neither would I claim to speak for all countries that have socialized medicine, unless I'm sure it's true for all of them.

No? So what is "I have first hand experience of both" supposed to be, then?

I've been to the US for extended periods. My mother in law was an RN in the State of New York. In fact I have numerous friends and family living in the US. I live in Belgium with my wife.

Good deal. Fact remains, rich people from other countries come
Here for treatment.

Fact remains people in the US die because some medical care is prohibitively expensive for a significant portion of the populace. I'm sure there are circumstances were medical care in the US is preferable. I'm talking about what medical care system is better for the LARGEST percentage of the populace.

Fact remains that since you stated it as a fact, but provided no proof of it, it's not a fact. It's just what you "know" is true, because you're "sure" of it, but have never bothered to verify it.

https://www.who.int/healthsystems/topics/financing/healthreport/3BackgroundPaperMedBankruptcy.pdf
"Health care costs pose a significant problem in the United States, and a 2007 survey found that 70 million Americans owe medical debt or experience difficulty in paying for treatment.4 Another found that 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these medical debtors had medical debts over $5000"
Here you go.

 

[g5000]

If the government wrote a law which required you to wear a ten pound sack of sand around your neck, it would require another law to repeal that original law.

Over the past 70 years or so, the government has been placing one sack of sand after another around our necks. Obamacare was just the latest sack of sand.

So it will require comprehensive reform to undo all that.

Since Trump and the GOP havbe not offered up any solutions or reforms, this is a dead giveaway they have sold us all down the river to UHC.

And the dumb credulous cucks just sit there and take it.


So here comes UHC!

 

[Cecilie1200]

Sounds like what you're asking is if we're willing to accept your anecdotal "evidence" as representative of both systems in general.

The answer would be no.

Nope not anecdotal evidence. Neither would I claim to speak for all countries that have socialized medicine, unless I'm sure it's true for all of them.

No? So what is "I have first hand experience of both" supposed to be, then?

I've been to the US for extended periods. My mother in law was an RN in the State of New York. In fact I have numerous friends and family living in the US. I live in Belgium with my wife.

Didn't ask, don't care. Possibly your next post could involve answering the question, rather than inundating me with unsolicited, unwanted, irrelevant personal info.

You asked me to give what my first hand experience is. I directly answered that question. So now you claim you didn't want to know? You do realize that I can read right?

No, I didn't ask. So no, I don't realize you can read. I'm actually realizing at this point that you CAN'T read.

What I asked was, "What were you saying when you started touting your 'firsthand experience of both' if it wasn't an offer of anecdotal evidence?"

Had I been asking you to vomit your personal info all over me, I would have said, "Oh, please, nameless stranger on the Internet, tell me all about your personal life and family history so that I may venerate you as an expert on all things healthcare." Please note that I have never said any such thing to you or anyone else in my life, except sarcastically.

 

[Crixus]

No? So what is "I have first hand experience of both" supposed to be, then?

I've been to the US for extended periods. My mother in law was an RN in the State of New York. In fact I have numerous friends and family living in the US. I live in Belgium with my wife.

Good deal. Fact remains, rich people from other countries come
Here for treatment.

Fact remains people in the US die because some medical care is prohibitively expensive for a significant portion of the populace. I'm sure there are circumstances were medical care in the US is preferable. I'm talking about what medical care system is better for the LARGEST percentage of the populace.

Fact remains that since you stated it as a fact, but provided no proof of it, it's not a fact. It's just what you "know" is true, because you're "sure" of it, but have never bothered to verify it.

https://www.who.int/healthsystems/topics/financing/healthreport/3BackgroundPaperMedBankruptcy.pdf
"Health care costs pose a significant problem in the United States, and a 2007 survey found that 70 million Americans owe medical debt or experience difficulty in paying for treatment.4 Another found that 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these medical debtors had medical debts over $5000"
Here you go.

www.needymeds.com is one of many means to acquire extremely expensive medicines. That’s if you can’t go right to the drug company.

 

[forkup]

Nope not anecdotal evidence. Neither would I claim to speak for all countries that have socialized medicine, unless I'm sure it's true for all of them.

No? So what is "I have first hand experience of both" supposed to be, then?

I've been to the US for extended periods. My mother in law was an RN in the State of New York. In fact I have numerous friends and family living in the US. I live in Belgium with my wife.

Didn't ask, don't care. Possibly your next post could involve answering the question, rather than inundating me with unsolicited, unwanted, irrelevant personal info.

You asked me to give what my first hand experience is. I directly answered that question. So now you claim you didn't want to know? You do realize that I can read right?

No, I didn't ask. So no, I don't realize you can read. I'm actually realizing at this point that you CAN'T read.

What I asked was, "What were you saying when you started touting your 'firsthand experience of both' if it wasn't an offer of anecdotal evidence?"

Had I been asking you to vomit your personal info all over me, I would have said, "Oh, please, nameless stranger on the Internet, tell me all about your personal life and family history so that I may venerate you as an expert on all things healthcare." Please note that I have never said any such thing to you or anyone else in my life, except sarcastically.

You know the nation I live in. The fact that I'm married to an American and that I still visit. What of these gives you any information about my identity?

 

[forkup]

I've been to the US for extended periods. My mother in law was an RN in the State of New York. In fact I have numerous friends and family living in the US. I live in Belgium with my wife.

Good deal. Fact remains, rich people from other countries come
Here for treatment.

Fact remains people in the US die because some medical care is prohibitively expensive for a significant portion of the populace. I'm sure there are circumstances were medical care in the US is preferable. I'm talking about what medical care system is better for the LARGEST percentage of the populace.

Fact remains that since you stated it as a fact, but provided no proof of it, it's not a fact. It's just what you "know" is true, because you're "sure" of it, but have never bothered to verify it.

https://www.who.int/healthsystems/topics/financing/healthreport/3BackgroundPaperMedBankruptcy.pdf
"Health care costs pose a significant problem in the United States, and a 2007 survey found that 70 million Americans owe medical debt or experience difficulty in paying for treatment.4 Another found that 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these medical debtors had medical debts over $5000"
Here you go.

www.needymeds.com is one of many means to acquire extremely expensive medicines. That’s if you can’t go right to the drug company.

This changes the stated facts in what way?

 

[Cecilie1200]

No? So what is "I have first hand experience of both" supposed to be, then?

I've been to the US for extended periods. My mother in law was an RN in the State of New York. In fact I have numerous friends and family living in the US. I live in Belgium with my wife.

Good deal. Fact remains, rich people from other countries come
Here for treatment.

Fact remains people in the US die because some medical care is prohibitively expensive for a significant portion of the populace. I'm sure there are circumstances were medical care in the US is preferable. I'm talking about what medical care system is better for the LARGEST percentage of the populace.

Fact remains that since you stated it as a fact, but provided no proof of it, it's not a fact. It's just what you "know" is true, because you're "sure" of it, but have never bothered to verify it.

https://www.who.int/healthsystems/topics/financing/healthreport/3BackgroundPaperMedBankruptcy.pdf
"Health care costs pose a significant problem in the United States, and a 2007 survey found that 70 million Americans owe medical debt or experience difficulty in paying for treatment.4 Another found that 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these medical debtors had medical debts over $5000"
Here you go.

Which amazingly doesn't prove that people die because they can't get medical care. Proof of your statement should involve your actual statement.

I should also point out that I don't consider WHO to be much of a reliable source when it comes to healthcare systems. Any group who ranks the quality of a healthcare system on how socialized it is has a little too big an axe to grind in my book.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No? So what is "I have first hand experience of both" supposed to be, then?

I've been to the US for extended periods. My mother in law was an RN in the State of New York. In fact I have numerous friends and family living in the US. I live in Belgium with my wife.

Didn't ask, don't care. Possibly your next post could involve answering the question, rather than inundating me with unsolicited, unwanted, irrelevant personal info.

You asked me to give what my first hand experience is. I directly answered that question. So now you claim you didn't want to know? You do realize that I can read right?

No, I didn't ask. So no, I don't realize you can read. I'm actually realizing at this point that you CAN'T read.

What I asked was, "What were you saying when you started touting your 'firsthand experience of both' if it wasn't an offer of anecdotal evidence?"

Had I been asking you to vomit your personal info all over me, I would have said, "Oh, please, nameless stranger on the Internet, tell me all about your personal life and family history so that I may venerate you as an expert on all things healthcare." Please note that I have never said any such thing to you or anyone else in my life, except sarcastically.

You know the nation I live in. The fact that I'm married to an American and that I still visit. What of these gives you any information about my identity?

Also didn't say anything about your identity. Reading for comprehension REALLY isn't your thing, is it?

 

[g5000]

60 repeals.

Then ZERO.

Wakey wakey, cucks!

 

[forkup]

I've been to the US for extended periods. My mother in law was an RN in the State of New York. In fact I have numerous friends and family living in the US. I live in Belgium with my wife.

Good deal. Fact remains, rich people from other countries come
Here for treatment.

Fact remains people in the US die because some medical care is prohibitively expensive for a significant portion of the populace. I'm sure there are circumstances were medical care in the US is preferable. I'm talking about what medical care system is better for the LARGEST percentage of the populace.

Fact remains that since you stated it as a fact, but provided no proof of it, it's not a fact. It's just what you "know" is true, because you're "sure" of it, but have never bothered to verify it.

https://www.who.int/healthsystems/topics/financing/healthreport/3BackgroundPaperMedBankruptcy.pdf
"Health care costs pose a significant problem in the United States, and a 2007 survey found that 70 million Americans owe medical debt or experience difficulty in paying for treatment.4 Another found that 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these medical debtors had medical debts over $5000"
Here you go.

Which amazingly doesn't prove that people die because they can't get medical care. Proof of your statement should involve your actual statement.

I should also point out that I don't consider WHO to be much of a reliable source when it comes to healthcare systems. Any group who ranks the quality of a healthcare system on how socialized it is has a little too big an axe to grind in my book.

-You don't think, that not being able to pay for medical care makes receiving medical care impossible? Or is it that you don't think that not getting medical care can make people die?
-As to you not liking my sourcing. I at least provided a source. You did no such thing. You just went with a general, "oh I don't trust the WHO". Since you want me to provide sourcing for my claims, I invite you to source an actual example of the WHO fudging data.

 

[Crixus]

Good deal. Fact remains, rich people from other countries come
Here for treatment.

Fact remains people in the US die because some medical care is prohibitively expensive for a significant portion of the populace. I'm sure there are circumstances were medical care in the US is preferable. I'm talking about what medical care system is better for the LARGEST percentage of the populace.

Fact remains that since you stated it as a fact, but provided no proof of it, it's not a fact. It's just what you "know" is true, because you're "sure" of it, but have never bothered to verify it.

https://www.who.int/healthsystems/topics/financing/healthreport/3BackgroundPaperMedBankruptcy.pdf
"Health care costs pose a significant problem in the United States, and a 2007 survey found that 70 million Americans owe medical debt or experience difficulty in paying for treatment.4 Another found that 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these medical debtors had medical debts over $5000"
Here you go.

Which amazingly doesn't prove that people die because they can't get medical care. Proof of your statement should involve your actual statement.

I should also point out that I don't consider WHO to be much of a reliable source when it comes to healthcare systems. Any group who ranks the quality of a healthcare system on how socialized it is has a little too big an axe to grind in my book.

-You don't think, that not being able to pay for medical care makes receiving medical care impossible? Or is it that you don't think that not getting medical care can make people die?
-As to you not liking my sourcing. I at least provided a source. You did no such thing. You just went with a general, "oh I don't trust the WHO". Since you want me to provide sourcing for my claims, I invite you to source an actual example of the WHO fudging data.

One doesn’t have to pay for medical care here. I just posted one of many ways to acquire expensive medication. And medicade covers doctors. I’m with the other poster. Please provide cases where people have died from lack of medical care here.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Seventy percent of Americans support 'Medicare for all' in new poll

Until they find out how much it costs.

 

[g5000]

Seventy percent of Americans support 'Medicare for all' in new poll

Until they find out how much it costs.

As I have pointed out at least twice in this topic so far, we currently spend $3.5 trillion a year on health care. That's $35 trillion over ten years.

So when UHC proponents say it will cost $32 trillion over ten years...so what? That's less than what we are paying now!

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

The target of increased taxes is always the Kulaks (successful middle class) because there just aren't enough Uber Rich to pay for everything:

Feed Your Family on $10 Billion a Day
Seems like these days I hear a lot of whiney whiners whining about "out of control government spending" and "insane deficits" and such, trying to make hay out of a bunch of pointy-head boring finance hooey. Sure, $3.7 trillion of spending sounds like a big number. "Oh, boo-hoo, how are we going to get $3.7 trillion dollars? We're broke, boo-hoo-hoo," whine the whiners. What these skinflint crybabies fail to realize is that $3.7 trillion is for an entire year - which translates into only a measly $10 billion per day!

Mister, I call that a bargain. Especially since it pays for all of us - you and me, the whole American family. Like all families, we Americas have to pay for things - health, food, safety, uncle Dave America with his drinking problem. And when little Billy America wants that new quad runner they promised, do Mom and Dad America deny him? No, they get a second job at Circle K, because they know little Billy might have one of his episodes and burn down the house.

So let's all sit down together as an American family with a calendar and make a yearly budget. First, let's lock in the $3.7 trillion of critical family spending priorities; now let's get to work on collecting the pay-as-we-go $10 billion daily cash flow we need.

12:01 AM, January 1
Let's start the year out right by going after some evil corporations and their obscene profits. And who is more evil than those twin spawns of Lucifer himself, Exxon Mobil and Walmart? Together these two largest American industrial behemoths raked in, between them, $34 billion in 2010 global profits. Let's teach 'em both a lesson and confiscate it for the public good. This will get us through...

9:52 AM January 4
Okay, maybe I underestimated our take. But we shouldn't let Exxon and Walmart distract us from all those other corporate profiteers out there worth shaking down. In fact, why don't we grab every cent of 2010 profit made by the other 498 members of the Fortune 500? That will net us another, let's see, $357 billion! Enough to get us to...

2:00 AM February 9
So we're running out of corporate cash, but look - it's Super Bowl time! As we all know, the game has become a crass disgusting festival of commercialism. So let's take all the TV ad money spent on stupid Super Bowl ads, and apply that to government needs. That would be $250 million, enough to fund us for, let's see... 36 minutes. The half time show, at least. But why stop there? Let's take every cent of ad money spent on all 45 Super Bowls, a cool $5 billion, which would cover us until...

2:00 PM February 9
Speaking of sports, why should the players be immune to our pressing public needs? Lord knows professional athletes make obscene salaries for playing a dumb game. So let's take the combined salaries of all players in the NFL, Major League Baseball, the NBA, and the NHL. Hey, they've got endorsement deals, they'll hardly miss it. Throw in the total winnings of everybody on the PGA tour and NASCAR, and we get $9.4 billion, enough to get us through until...

1:00 PM February 10
Okay, it's time to stop messing around. Athletes aren't the only ones greedily raking it in. What about America's rich - those fancy pants fat cats living the high life in the above-$250,000 income bracket? According to IRS statistics, these 1.93% of US households are hogging 25% of US income. And why do they need it? For crying out loud, they probably stole it anyway. I say let's take 100% of every penny they make above $250,000. They can use the rest to pay their state and local taxes. Now we're talking big bucks, brother. How much? Let's see...

A: Number of US households: 116,000,000
B: Average US household income: $68,000 (median = $52,000)
C: Total US household income (A * B): $7.89 trillion
D: Percent of households above $250k income: 1.93%
E: Number of households above $250k income (A*D): 2,238,800
F: Percent of national income earned by households making $250k or more = 25%
G: Total income of households making $250k or more (C*F): $1.97 trillion
H: Total income of households in excess of $250k (G - E*$250,000) = $1.412 trillion

Feed Your Family on $10 Billion a Day

The rich derive their wealth not just from annual income. Its also there in form of capital gains, estate, property etc. The top 20% of income earners have 80% of the wealth, wealth here being far more than just annual income. The bottom 80% of only 20% of the wealth. So yes, the rich can afford to pay a lot more in taxes and it won't hurt the economy and will greatly benefit the country.

You also need to factor in how much consumer spending do households with an income of 250K or more do. Consumer spending is 70% of economic growth. These 2,238,000 households probably do go to the movies, out to eat, shopping, and other basic things that drive most economic growth. But their consumer spending on these things is a tiny fraction of what the other 113,000,000 households who make less than 250K are doing. You want to keep the taxes low on those doing the most consumer spending which in this case is the 113,000,000 households making less than 250K a year. You can gradually increase taxes on the group making over 250K a year for two reasons: 1. they typically don't reduce their consumer spending when their taxes are increased unlike the middle and lower classes. 2. Even if they did, their contribution to basic consumer spending is much less than the 113,000,000 million households making less than 250K.

You're a LIAR!

List of Countries with Universal Healthcare

No, I'm not. Look at the map in the link:

Here's a Map of the Countries That Provide Universal Health Care (America's Still Not on It) - The Atlantic

The latest UN Human Development Index can be found here:

List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia

I gave You a link. You lied. It’s not truly Universal in these countries. Liar.

I responded with multiple links to show you that is not true. You failed to look at them.

What? I don’t need links I know the truth. I dont Need a link to know Berlin is the capital of Germany. So Germany does NOT have universal healthcare

 

[forkup]

Fact remains people in the US die because some medical care is prohibitively expensive for a significant portion of the populace. I'm sure there are circumstances were medical care in the US is preferable. I'm talking about what medical care system is better for the LARGEST percentage of the populace.

Fact remains that since you stated it as a fact, but provided no proof of it, it's not a fact. It's just what you "know" is true, because you're "sure" of it, but have never bothered to verify it.

https://www.who.int/healthsystems/topics/financing/healthreport/3BackgroundPaperMedBankruptcy.pdf
"Health care costs pose a significant problem in the United States, and a 2007 survey found that 70 million Americans owe medical debt or experience difficulty in paying for treatment.4 Another found that 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these medical debtors had medical debts over $5000"
Here you go.

Which amazingly doesn't prove that people die because they can't get medical care. Proof of your statement should involve your actual statement.

I should also point out that I don't consider WHO to be much of a reliable source when it comes to healthcare systems. Any group who ranks the quality of a healthcare system on how socialized it is has a little too big an axe to grind in my book.

-You don't think, that not being able to pay for medical care makes receiving medical care impossible? Or is it that you don't think that not getting medical care can make people die?
-As to you not liking my sourcing. I at least provided a source. You did no such thing. You just went with a general, "oh I don't trust the WHO". Since you want me to provide sourcing for my claims, I invite you to source an actual example of the WHO fudging data.

One doesn’t have to pay for medical care here. I just posted one of many ways to acquire expensive medication. And medicade covers doctors. I’m with the other poster. Please provide cases where people have died from lack of medical care here.

-The problem is that would be anecdotal evidence now wouldn't it? Something that the other poster has made clear she does not want. I have such an example by the way.
-So I'll do a simple example. How Much Does A Colonoscopy Cost?
It says that doing a colonoscopy costs 3000 dollar without insurance. Suffice to say that not a lot of people who haven't got insurance will pay that amount. Colon cancer causes about 50000 deaths annually in the US.
-Here everybody is insured and no costs are charged for doing these sorts of screenings. You don't think not having universal healthcare costs lives?