The Consequences of a Post-Christian America Revealed by COVID-19

[Montrovant]

Liberal gotcha games, is it? I didn't know liberals created gotcha games, nor that trying to get you to clarify the things you've said was either liberal or a gotcha game.

Also, if you're better at it, why not play?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the claim that Christians know no other human can keep them safe. That's a new one, and seems to make little sense. I guess if you explain it I've got ya!

Okay genius, I'll play your little game, since you insist.

Please tell me how Your Precious Government can keep us safe, every day, in every circumstance, from this virus, if we comply.

That's your game, pal. It's called strawmanning. Embrace it, since you took such glee in ramping it up for me.

The difference with your post, of course, is that you didn't base your questions on anything I said. You just made them up. I, on the other hand, have quotes from you saying that Christians know no human can keep them safe (post #59), and you responding with a yes when I asked you if Christian children know their parents cannot keep them safe (post #67).

You didn't actually answer my questions, but I'm happy to answer yours.

The US government is my government and your government, assuming you are a US citizen. I don't think of it as precious. I certainly don't think it can keep everyone safe every day in every circumstance, from this virus or anything else. On the other hand, I also don't think that this is a binary equation in which the government either keeps everyone safe from everything all of the time, or does nothing.

Of course, I also think it's possible for one person to keep another person safe, at least in some circumstances.

You expect me to actually respond to your stupid, inane, junior high level strawman argument

And include a winky sign because you think you actually GOT ME. That's embarrassing, for you. But okay.

I'm going to start again with the OP, alright there, pal? The FUNCTION of the US govt is not to "keep us safe". That's why we have the 2nd amendment. It is only a small measure of safety against "enemies, foreign and domestic". You somehow now want to twist this into gotcha games with human beings and parents-children, as if you prove some kind of point that parents can, in some measure, keep children safe, you have won a Constitutional argument, or proven what the government's role should be.

The Constitution was written, and works, because the American populace never NEEDED the government to "keep us safe". I'm really going to end there because your skills at argumentation are beyond frustrating, to be honest.

Perhaps your skills at explanation are a bit lacking.

I see you still don't care to explain your statements. If it's frustrating for you to be asked to clarify things like "Christians know that no other human being can keep them safe," you might not want to post them.

I'm not at all embarrassed by using emojis. I do it all the time. It's what they are there for!

That is exactly the truth, actually. No other human being can keep them safe. Now you want to argue semantics. I'm not interested, unless YOU are interested in arguing this statement: "Americans know that the government cannot keep them safe".

It's ridiculous. You knew what I meant and expect me to go down a rabbit trail.

No.

I STILL don't know just what you meant. You may be happy to assume you know what someone means other than what they actually post, but I'm not going to do that, especially with the OP you created. I'm not even sure what you mean by a post-Christian America.

I don't think that Americans en masse "know that the government cannot keep them safe." Some believe that to be true, others don't. It depends in part on what they are being kept safe from; I hope you are just talking about the COVID-19 virus. The government can certainly do things to make things safer for Americans with regards to the virus. Some of the things it can do will cause other problems. Your posts so far in this thread, including the OP, still have me wondering if you believe the government (local/state/federal) should do/have done nothing at all in response to this pandemic.

 

[SweetSue92]

I do not play liberal gotcha games, sweetheart. I guarantee I'm better at it than you are, and have been at it longer than you have.

Liberal gotcha games, is it? I didn't know liberals created gotcha games, nor that trying to get you to clarify the things you've said was either liberal or a gotcha game.

Also, if you're better at it, why not play?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the claim that Christians know no other human can keep them safe. That's a new one, and seems to make little sense. I guess if you explain it I've got ya!

Okay genius, I'll play your little game, since you insist.

Please tell me how Your Precious Government can keep us safe, every day, in every circumstance, from this virus, if we comply.

That's your game, pal. It's called strawmanning. Embrace it, since you took such glee in ramping it up for me.

The difference with your post, of course, is that you didn't base your questions on anything I said. You just made them up. I, on the other hand, have quotes from you saying that Christians know no human can keep them safe (post #59), and you responding with a yes when I asked you if Christian children know their parents cannot keep them safe (post #67).

You didn't actually answer my questions, but I'm happy to answer yours.

The US government is my government and your government, assuming you are a US citizen. I don't think of it as precious. I certainly don't think it can keep everyone safe every day in every circumstance, from this virus or anything else. On the other hand, I also don't think that this is a binary equation in which the government either keeps everyone safe from everything all of the time, or does nothing.

Of course, I also think it's possible for one person to keep another person safe, at least in some circumstances.

You expect me to actually respond to your stupid, inane, junior high level strawman argument

And include a winky sign because you think you actually GOT ME. That's embarrassing, for you. But okay.

I'm going to start again with the OP, alright there, pal? The FUNCTION of the US govt is not to "keep us safe". That's why we have the 2nd amendment. It is only a small measure of safety against "enemies, foreign and domestic". You somehow now want to twist this into gotcha games with human beings and parents-children, as if you prove some kind of point that parents can, in some measure, keep children safe, you have won a Constitutional argument, or proven what the government's role should be.

The Constitution was written, and works, because the American populace never NEEDED the government to "keep us safe". I'm really going to end there because your skills at argumentation are beyond frustrating, to be honest.

Aren’t you making an argument to disband the military?

The military is a government institution that keeps us safe.

Same with the local and state police.

Sure, on an national and societal level.

They do not keep us safe on a personal level as their chief function, and were not intended to. Our gov't chief function is to protect individual rights conferred by God.

 

[ding]

Religion is nothing more than a tool and like all tools it can be used for good or bad.

 

[there4eyeM]

If any attitude to 'God' is necessary, it would be child like, not childish, as today's religions are.

That is not only a blanket statement but an oversimplification.

yes, we are supposed to be childlike in our relationship with God.

no, we are not supposed to be childish in our faith.

To argue today’s religion is childish is to ignore that for any given thing there will be a distribution.

Calling religions "childish" is being kind. They are rather an insult to human intelligence in addition to being an insult to 'God' (to use a thoroughly misunderstood noun). In a context of theology, these religions are blasphemous.

 

[ding]

I have never understood the logic behind believing that unless everyone is kept safe or nothing bad can ever happen that there can be no God.

Could one of you good people explain that to me?

Coyote Montrovant JoeB131 ESay

I don't think that argument would be that everyone has to be kept safe or there can be no god. It would probably be more along the lines of everyone should be kept safe or there is no all-powerful, all-knowing, loving and merciful god. The reason for that would be that allowing pain and suffering, when it doesn't have to exist, doesn't seem to be loving or merciful.

That's the best I've got off the top of my head. I'm not sure I've ever seen that argument presented, at least not in quite that form.

Pain and suffering exist because this ain't Heaven yet

It can as easily and logically be maintained that "pain and suffering" exist so that we can experience their lack.

My belief is that God created the material world to experience the material world through us.

 

[SweetSue92]

Okay genius, I'll play your little game, since you insist.

Please tell me how Your Precious Government can keep us safe, every day, in every circumstance, from this virus, if we comply.

That's your game, pal. It's called strawmanning. Embrace it, since you took such glee in ramping it up for me.

The difference with your post, of course, is that you didn't base your questions on anything I said. You just made them up. I, on the other hand, have quotes from you saying that Christians know no human can keep them safe (post #59), and you responding with a yes when I asked you if Christian children know their parents cannot keep them safe (post #67).

You didn't actually answer my questions, but I'm happy to answer yours.

The US government is my government and your government, assuming you are a US citizen. I don't think of it as precious. I certainly don't think it can keep everyone safe every day in every circumstance, from this virus or anything else. On the other hand, I also don't think that this is a binary equation in which the government either keeps everyone safe from everything all of the time, or does nothing.

Of course, I also think it's possible for one person to keep another person safe, at least in some circumstances.

You expect me to actually respond to your stupid, inane, junior high level strawman argument

And include a winky sign because you think you actually GOT ME. That's embarrassing, for you. But okay.

I'm going to start again with the OP, alright there, pal? The FUNCTION of the US govt is not to "keep us safe". That's why we have the 2nd amendment. It is only a small measure of safety against "enemies, foreign and domestic". You somehow now want to twist this into gotcha games with human beings and parents-children, as if you prove some kind of point that parents can, in some measure, keep children safe, you have won a Constitutional argument, or proven what the government's role should be.

The Constitution was written, and works, because the American populace never NEEDED the government to "keep us safe". I'm really going to end there because your skills at argumentation are beyond frustrating, to be honest.

Perhaps your skills at explanation are a bit lacking.

I see you still don't care to explain your statements. If it's frustrating for you to be asked to clarify things like "Christians know that no other human being can keep them safe," you might not want to post them.

I'm not at all embarrassed by using emojis. I do it all the time. It's what they are there for!

That is exactly the truth, actually. No other human being can keep them safe. Now you want to argue semantics. I'm not interested, unless YOU are interested in arguing this statement: "Americans know that the government cannot keep them safe".

It's ridiculous. You knew what I meant and expect me to go down a rabbit trail.

No.

I STILL don't know just what you meant. You may be happy to assume you know what someone means other than what they actually post, but I'm not going to do that, especially with the OP you created. I'm not even sure what you mean by a post-Christian America.

I don't think that Americans en masse "know that the government cannot keep them safe." Some believe that to be true, others don't. It depends in part on what they are being kept safe from; I hope you are just talking about the COVID-19 virus. The government can certainly do things to make things safer for Americans with regards to the virus. Some of the things it can do will cause other problems. Your posts so far in this thread, including the OP, still have me wondering if you believe the government (local/state/federal) should do/have done nothing at all in response to this pandemic.

When you have no belief in God, your god is your stomach. That's in the Bible. Your chief goal in life then is to simply stay alive. I know it's probably impossible for a non-Christian to imagine any OTHER goal or higher values. But they exist.

When your chief goal is survival, you will look anywhere for safety. When you don't believe in God, and you're an adult, who keeps you safe?

"The Authorities"

For pity's sake, look at the wreckage of human history for how THAT turns out

 

[ding]

If any attitude to 'God' is necessary, it would be child like, not childish, as today's religions are.

That is not only a blanket statement but an oversimplification.

yes, we are supposed to be childlike in our relationship with God.

no, we are not supposed to be childish in our faith.

To argue today’s religion is childish is to ignore that for any given thing there will be a distribution.

Calling religions "childish" is being kind. They are rather an insult to human intelligence in addition to being an insult to 'God' (to use a thoroughly misunderstood noun). In a context of theology, these religions are blasphemous.

It’s what you make it to be. It is all part of the conflict and confusion process.

why would you throw the baby out with the dirty bath water?

 

[SweetSue92]

I have never understood the logic behind believing that unless everyone is kept safe or nothing bad can ever happen that there can be no God.

Could one of you good people explain that to me?

Coyote Montrovant JoeB131 ESay

I don't think that argument would be that everyone has to be kept safe or there can be no god. It would probably be more along the lines of everyone should be kept safe or there is no all-powerful, all-knowing, loving and merciful god. The reason for that would be that allowing pain and suffering, when it doesn't have to exist, doesn't seem to be loving or merciful.

That's the best I've got off the top of my head. I'm not sure I've ever seen that argument presented, at least not in quite that form.

Pain and suffering exist because this ain't Heaven yet

It can as easily and logically be maintained that "pain and suffering" exist so that we can experience their lack.

My belief is that God created the material world to experience the material world through us.

Everyone

This is not a Biblical view, thank you

 

[ding]

I have never understood the logic behind believing that unless everyone is kept safe or nothing bad can ever happen that there can be no God.

Could one of you good people explain that to me?

Coyote Montrovant JoeB131 ESay

I don't think that argument would be that everyone has to be kept safe or there can be no god. It would probably be more along the lines of everyone should be kept safe or there is no all-powerful, all-knowing, loving and merciful god. The reason for that would be that allowing pain and suffering, when it doesn't have to exist, doesn't seem to be loving or merciful.

That's the best I've got off the top of my head. I'm not sure I've ever seen that argument presented, at least not in quite that form.

Pain and suffering exist because this ain't Heaven yet

It can as easily and logically be maintained that "pain and suffering" exist so that we can experience their lack.

My belief is that God created the material world to experience the material world through us.

Everyone

This is not a Biblical view, thank you

Says you. Why do you believe God created existence if not to experience it through us?

 

[SweetSue92]

If any attitude to 'God' is necessary, it would be child like, not childish, as today's religions are.

That is not only a blanket statement but an oversimplification.

yes, we are supposed to be childlike in our relationship with God.

no, we are not supposed to be childish in our faith.

To argue today’s religion is childish is to ignore that for any given thing there will be a distribution.

Calling religions "childish" is being kind. They are rather an insult to human intelligence in addition to being an insult to 'God' (to use a thoroughly misunderstood noun). In a context of theology, these religions are blasphemous.

Ah the hubris of this statement made me laugh

You do you, though

 

[ding]

From a biblical perspective the spirit of God is within us all. Therefore God is experiencing the material world through us.

 

[SweetSue92]

I don't think that argument would be that everyone has to be kept safe or there can be no god. It would probably be more along the lines of everyone should be kept safe or there is no all-powerful, all-knowing, loving and merciful god. The reason for that would be that allowing pain and suffering, when it doesn't have to exist, doesn't seem to be loving or merciful.

That's the best I've got off the top of my head. I'm not sure I've ever seen that argument presented, at least not in quite that form.

Pain and suffering exist because this ain't Heaven yet

It can as easily and logically be maintained that "pain and suffering" exist so that we can experience their lack.

My belief is that God created the material world to experience the material world through us.

Everyone

This is not a Biblical view, thank you

Says you. Why do you believe God created existence if not to experience it through us?

God did not need to "experience" anything through us. That is you projecting on God. That's a human-based, human-formed God.

 

[Montrovant]

The difference with your post, of course, is that you didn't base your questions on anything I said. You just made them up. I, on the other hand, have quotes from you saying that Christians know no human can keep them safe (post #59), and you responding with a yes when I asked you if Christian children know their parents cannot keep them safe (post #67).

You didn't actually answer my questions, but I'm happy to answer yours.

The US government is my government and your government, assuming you are a US citizen. I don't think of it as precious. I certainly don't think it can keep everyone safe every day in every circumstance, from this virus or anything else. On the other hand, I also don't think that this is a binary equation in which the government either keeps everyone safe from everything all of the time, or does nothing.

Of course, I also think it's possible for one person to keep another person safe, at least in some circumstances.

You expect me to actually respond to your stupid, inane, junior high level strawman argument

And include a winky sign because you think you actually GOT ME. That's embarrassing, for you. But okay.

I'm going to start again with the OP, alright there, pal? The FUNCTION of the US govt is not to "keep us safe". That's why we have the 2nd amendment. It is only a small measure of safety against "enemies, foreign and domestic". You somehow now want to twist this into gotcha games with human beings and parents-children, as if you prove some kind of point that parents can, in some measure, keep children safe, you have won a Constitutional argument, or proven what the government's role should be.

The Constitution was written, and works, because the American populace never NEEDED the government to "keep us safe". I'm really going to end there because your skills at argumentation are beyond frustrating, to be honest.

Perhaps your skills at explanation are a bit lacking.

I see you still don't care to explain your statements. If it's frustrating for you to be asked to clarify things like "Christians know that no other human being can keep them safe," you might not want to post them.

I'm not at all embarrassed by using emojis. I do it all the time. It's what they are there for!

That is exactly the truth, actually. No other human being can keep them safe. Now you want to argue semantics. I'm not interested, unless YOU are interested in arguing this statement: "Americans know that the government cannot keep them safe".

It's ridiculous. You knew what I meant and expect me to go down a rabbit trail.

No.

I STILL don't know just what you meant. You may be happy to assume you know what someone means other than what they actually post, but I'm not going to do that, especially with the OP you created. I'm not even sure what you mean by a post-Christian America.

I don't think that Americans en masse "know that the government cannot keep them safe." Some believe that to be true, others don't. It depends in part on what they are being kept safe from; I hope you are just talking about the COVID-19 virus. The government can certainly do things to make things safer for Americans with regards to the virus. Some of the things it can do will cause other problems. Your posts so far in this thread, including the OP, still have me wondering if you believe the government (local/state/federal) should do/have done nothing at all in response to this pandemic.

When you have no belief in God, your god is your stomach. That's in the Bible. Your chief goal in life then is to simply stay alive. I know it's probably impossible for a non-Christian to imagine any OTHER goal or higher values. But they exist.

When your chief goal is survival, you will look anywhere for safety. When you don't believe in God, and you're an adult, who keeps you safe?

"The Authorities"

For pity's sake, look at the wreckage of human history for how THAT turns out

Wait, you don't think people of faiths other than Christianity, or those without religious faith, can imagine a higher goal than simple survival?

 

[there4eyeM]

Liberal gotcha games, is it? I didn't know liberals created gotcha games, nor that trying to get you to clarify the things you've said was either liberal or a gotcha game.

Also, if you're better at it, why not play?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the claim that Christians know no other human can keep them safe. That's a new one, and seems to make little sense. I guess if you explain it I've got ya!

Okay genius, I'll play your little game, since you insist.

Please tell me how Your Precious Government can keep us safe, every day, in every circumstance, from this virus, if we comply.

That's your game, pal. It's called strawmanning. Embrace it, since you took such glee in ramping it up for me.

The difference with your post, of course, is that you didn't base your questions on anything I said. You just made them up. I, on the other hand, have quotes from you saying that Christians know no human can keep them safe (post #59), and you responding with a yes when I asked you if Christian children know their parents cannot keep them safe (post #67).

You didn't actually answer my questions, but I'm happy to answer yours.

The US government is my government and your government, assuming you are a US citizen. I don't think of it as precious. I certainly don't think it can keep everyone safe every day in every circumstance, from this virus or anything else. On the other hand, I also don't think that this is a binary equation in which the government either keeps everyone safe from everything all of the time, or does nothing.

Of course, I also think it's possible for one person to keep another person safe, at least in some circumstances.

You expect me to actually respond to your stupid, inane, junior high level strawman argument

And include a winky sign because you think you actually GOT ME. That's embarrassing, for you. But okay.

I'm going to start again with the OP, alright there, pal? The FUNCTION of the US govt is not to "keep us safe". That's why we have the 2nd amendment. It is only a small measure of safety against "enemies, foreign and domestic". You somehow now want to twist this into gotcha games with human beings and parents-children, as if you prove some kind of point that parents can, in some measure, keep children safe, you have won a Constitutional argument, or proven what the government's role should be.

The Constitution was written, and works, because the American populace never NEEDED the government to "keep us safe". I'm really going to end there because your skills at argumentation are beyond frustrating, to be honest.

Aren’t you making an argument to disband the military?

The military is a government institution that keeps us safe.

Same with the local and state police.

Sure, on an national and societal level.

They do not keep us safe on a personal level as their chief function, and were not intended to. Our gov't chief function is to protect individual rights conferred by God.

"Government" is the result of the social contract, and exists to regulate society. If society expresses a value for "individual rights" (whatever they may be), that would then play its part. There are governments and societies that put the emphasis on collective security and the freedom from violence and crime over personal, individual liberties that are often misused against others.

 

[ding]

If any attitude to 'God' is necessary, it would be child like, not childish, as today's religions are.

That is not only a blanket statement but an oversimplification.

yes, we are supposed to be childlike in our relationship with God.

no, we are not supposed to be childish in our faith.

To argue today’s religion is childish is to ignore that for any given thing there will be a distribution.

Calling religions "childish" is being kind. They are rather an insult to human intelligence in addition to being an insult to 'God' (to use a thoroughly misunderstood noun). In a context of theology, these religions are blasphemous.

Ah the hubris of this statement made me laugh

You do you, though

Laughing leads to crying.

 

[SweetSue92]

From a biblical perspective the spirit of God is within us all. Therefore God is experiencing the material world through us.

That is absolutely false again. Wow, ding.

The Spirit of God is not "within us all". It only comes to those who accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. The Spirit of God is one of the Trinity, the living Witness.

I don't know what you believe frankly but I would warn you not to pass it off as Christianity.

 

[ding]

Okay genius, I'll play your little game, since you insist.

Please tell me how Your Precious Government can keep us safe, every day, in every circumstance, from this virus, if we comply.

That's your game, pal. It's called strawmanning. Embrace it, since you took such glee in ramping it up for me.

The difference with your post, of course, is that you didn't base your questions on anything I said. You just made them up. I, on the other hand, have quotes from you saying that Christians know no human can keep them safe (post #59), and you responding with a yes when I asked you if Christian children know their parents cannot keep them safe (post #67).

You didn't actually answer my questions, but I'm happy to answer yours.

The US government is my government and your government, assuming you are a US citizen. I don't think of it as precious. I certainly don't think it can keep everyone safe every day in every circumstance, from this virus or anything else. On the other hand, I also don't think that this is a binary equation in which the government either keeps everyone safe from everything all of the time, or does nothing.

Of course, I also think it's possible for one person to keep another person safe, at least in some circumstances.

You expect me to actually respond to your stupid, inane, junior high level strawman argument

And include a winky sign because you think you actually GOT ME. That's embarrassing, for you. But okay.

I'm going to start again with the OP, alright there, pal? The FUNCTION of the US govt is not to "keep us safe". That's why we have the 2nd amendment. It is only a small measure of safety against "enemies, foreign and domestic". You somehow now want to twist this into gotcha games with human beings and parents-children, as if you prove some kind of point that parents can, in some measure, keep children safe, you have won a Constitutional argument, or proven what the government's role should be.

The Constitution was written, and works, because the American populace never NEEDED the government to "keep us safe". I'm really going to end there because your skills at argumentation are beyond frustrating, to be honest.

Aren’t you making an argument to disband the military?

The military is a government institution that keeps us safe.

Same with the local and state police.

Sure, on an national and societal level.

They do not keep us safe on a personal level as their chief function, and were not intended to. Our gov't chief function is to protect individual rights conferred by God.

"Government" is the result of the social contract, and exists to regulate society. If society expresses a value for "individual rights" (whatever they may be), that would then play its part. There are governments and societies that put the emphasis on collective security and the freedom from violence and crime over personal, individual liberties that are often misused against others.

Governments are comprised of men, no different than religions.

 

[JoeB131]

God did not need to "experience" anything through us. That is you projecting on God. That's a human-based, human-formed God.

There isn't a God who isn't human based, human formed God.

Still waiting for you to explain why Jehovah is real (even though 4 Billion don't believe in him) but Amaterasu is fake (even though 110 million Japanese think she does exist).

Well, you can pray to your sky pixies, I'll rely on science, thanks.

 

[ding]

From a biblical perspective the spirit of God is within us all. Therefore God is experiencing the material world through us.

That is absolutely false again. Wow, ding.

The Spirit of God is not "within us all". It only comes to those who accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. The Spirit of God is one of the Trinity, the living Witness.

I don't know what you believe frankly but I would warn you not to pass it off as Christianity.

That’s not what Jesus told the woman at the well.

 

[SweetSue92]

Okay genius, I'll play your little game, since you insist.

Please tell me how Your Precious Government can keep us safe, every day, in every circumstance, from this virus, if we comply.

That's your game, pal. It's called strawmanning. Embrace it, since you took such glee in ramping it up for me.

The difference with your post, of course, is that you didn't base your questions on anything I said. You just made them up. I, on the other hand, have quotes from you saying that Christians know no human can keep them safe (post #59), and you responding with a yes when I asked you if Christian children know their parents cannot keep them safe (post #67).

You didn't actually answer my questions, but I'm happy to answer yours.

The US government is my government and your government, assuming you are a US citizen. I don't think of it as precious. I certainly don't think it can keep everyone safe every day in every circumstance, from this virus or anything else. On the other hand, I also don't think that this is a binary equation in which the government either keeps everyone safe from everything all of the time, or does nothing.

Of course, I also think it's possible for one person to keep another person safe, at least in some circumstances.

You expect me to actually respond to your stupid, inane, junior high level strawman argument

And include a winky sign because you think you actually GOT ME. That's embarrassing, for you. But okay.

I'm going to start again with the OP, alright there, pal? The FUNCTION of the US govt is not to "keep us safe". That's why we have the 2nd amendment. It is only a small measure of safety against "enemies, foreign and domestic". You somehow now want to twist this into gotcha games with human beings and parents-children, as if you prove some kind of point that parents can, in some measure, keep children safe, you have won a Constitutional argument, or proven what the government's role should be.

The Constitution was written, and works, because the American populace never NEEDED the government to "keep us safe". I'm really going to end there because your skills at argumentation are beyond frustrating, to be honest.

Aren’t you making an argument to disband the military?

The military is a government institution that keeps us safe.

Same with the local and state police.

Sure, on an national and societal level.

They do not keep us safe on a personal level as their chief function, and were not intended to. Our gov't chief function is to protect individual rights conferred by God.

"Government" is the result of the social contract, and exists to regulate society. If society expresses a value for "individual rights" (whatever they may be), that would then play its part. There are governments and societies that put the emphasis on collective security and the freedom from violence and crime over personal, individual liberties that are often misused against others.

Please do me one favor. Do not give me dictionary definitions in theory. Let's talk about the actual topic, thank you.