The death of Thanksgiving?

[koshergrl]

I don't know about you guys but I'm ready for all that Thanksgiving food!

Haha High, we already had our first T-day dinner, Sunday after church!!!

And it was awesome!

 

[Mr Natural]

Does anyone use one of those turkey deep fryers?

 

[koshergrl]

I don't, but I have a friend who went on a turkey frying kick for about 8 years, lol.

Yummy, but a huge pain in the ass. Has to be done outside, it's dangerous, and you have gallons of oil to deal with.

 

[Pogo]

Yes that is true. And it is the unmistakable image of what millions of Americans think of when they think of Thanksgiving--it is the cultural tradition most of us hold in our hearts even if we don't practice it ourselves.

Which is why I suppose I can emphathise so much with what Nosmo is saying here in this thread. Christmas has become a materialistic, stressful nightmare for many of us instead of the heartwarming celebration of God and family that it once was. And Nosmo hates to see Thanksgiving going down that same road. I understand that.

And I also understand my family members, who get together only once or twice a year in most years, have a ball skipping out on the football games and going shopping on Thanksgiving afternoon or early evening.

Well, Foxy, who is making Christmas a "materialistic, stressful nightmare" for you, or for anyone, other than themselves? Do I have the ability to force you to overspend, stress out over details, etc. regarding the holidays? If you choose NOT to participate in that, can I do anything to change that?

My employer is open over holidays, as part of its 24/7 business model. They inform all of their prospective employees before they're hired that they are open on holidays, and that there is a possibility that they will be required to fill the necessary spaces for that. I chose to accept the job despite that. Usually, those holiday positions are filled by employees volunteering to do so, because they want the holiday pay that goes with it. One supervisor told me he didn't even remember the last time they had mandatory holiday work in our division.

Is it your place, or Nosmo's, or anyone else's, to change my employer's business model, or to deny those employees their choice to work holidays, based on how YOU think life "should" be, and where YOU think those people "should" be based on YOUR personal perception of what is and isn't ethical?

Life occasionally sucks. Wear a helmet. And if the necessity of working one lousy day out of the year destroys your family bonding and closeness, JUST because it's listed on the calendar as a "holiday", then I'd say you have a much bigger problem in your life than a mean boss.

You haven't been reading my posts, have you Cecile. If you had, you would know that you are accusing Nosmo and me wrongly here.

Neither Nosmo nor I have suggested that it is our place to change an employer's business model. He has expressed his opinion that he loves a Saturday Evening Post Norman Rockwell observance of Thanksgiving and he would much like to return to the days that almost all those in non essential occupations got to experience that. And in his opinion, the lure of profits should not upstage that. And he feels critical of those who do put profits ahead of the traditional Thanksgiving just as you or I would be critical of those who do not respect American customs during the playing of the National Anthem or saluting the flag. We aren't demanding they be forced to respect those customs. But we wish everybody would.

Wishing is not totalitarianism.

His opinion is in no way coercive. It is in no way intended to take away anybody's choices or liberties. His opinion I believe comes from the heart and is not born of any malice or ulterior motives of any kind. My personal view of the best way to celebrate Thanksgiving is not the same as his. I don't have a problem with the stores opening on Thanskgiving. But that does not make his point of view in any way wrong.

And I did not say or even suggest that I did not create my own stress in preparations to celebrate Christmas either, or that I had to join in with the modern day cultural customs and/or expectations. I was blaming nobody. I was expressing a personal point of view that Christmas has become materialistic and that does increase stress for many people. That is not an evil observation. It is simply an observation.

Beautifully, gracefully and evenhandedly put. Bravo.

And in the Christmas play, I played Mrs. Cratchit.

OMG -- that means, on stage at least... you and I are married, Foxy...

Hey... I could do far worse. Although I'm not sure you could say the same.

 

[High_Gravity]

I don't, but I have a friend who went on a turkey frying kick for about 8 years, lol.

Yummy, but a huge pain in the ass. Has to be done outside, it's dangerous, and you have gallons of oil to deal with.

I went to a friends house last year he did the turkey fryer, you have to know what your doing and you have to keep the kids away it is dangerous.

 

[High_Gravity]

I don't know about you guys but I'm ready for all that Thanksgiving food!

Haha High, we already had our first T-day dinner, Sunday after church!!!

And it was awesome!

Thats what I'm talking about.

 

[BullKurtz]

And in the Christmas play, I played Mrs. Cratchit.

THE HORROR!

 

[BullKurtz]

I don't, but I have a friend who went on a turkey frying kick for about 8 years, lol.

Yummy, but a huge pain in the ass. Has to be done outside, it's dangerous, and you have gallons of oil to deal with.

I went to a friends house last year he did the turkey fryer, you have to know what your doing and you have to keep the kids away it is dangerous.

There was an American made microwave oven I once cooked a 15 pound gobbler in.....tasted GREAT.....that big ol Tappan and me were on our own for a few years and it performed without a hitch. It didn't rotate so I had to turn the bird every hour or so but I do that in a stove. It had a temperature probe so I knew when it hit 180 inside my bird was ready. Had that Tappan for 21 years....when it finally died I admit I mighta shed a tear...when nobody was around of course.

 

[Nosmo King]

Yes that is true. And it is the unmistakable image of what millions of Americans think of when they think of Thanksgiving--it is the cultural tradition most of us hold in our hearts even if we don't practice it ourselves.

Which is why I suppose I can emphathise so much with what Nosmo is saying here in this thread. Christmas has become a materialistic, stressful nightmare for many of us instead of the heartwarming celebration of God and family that it once was. And Nosmo hates to see Thanksgiving going down that same road. I understand that.

And I also understand my family members, who get together only once or twice a year in most years, have a ball skipping out on the football games and going shopping on Thanksgiving afternoon or early evening.

Well, Foxy, who is making Christmas a "materialistic, stressful nightmare" for you, or for anyone, other than themselves? Do I have the ability to force you to overspend, stress out over details, etc. regarding the holidays? If you choose NOT to participate in that, can I do anything to change that?

My employer is open over holidays, as part of its 24/7 business model. They inform all of their prospective employees before they're hired that they are open on holidays, and that there is a possibility that they will be required to fill the necessary spaces for that. I chose to accept the job despite that. Usually, those holiday positions are filled by employees volunteering to do so, because they want the holiday pay that goes with it. One supervisor told me he didn't even remember the last time they had mandatory holiday work in our division.

Is it your place, or Nosmo's, or anyone else's, to change my employer's business model, or to deny those employees their choice to work holidays, based on how YOU think life "should" be, and where YOU think those people "should" be based on YOUR personal perception of what is and isn't ethical?

Life occasionally sucks. Wear a helmet. And if the necessity of working one lousy day out of the year destroys your family bonding and closeness, JUST because it's listed on the calendar as a "holiday", then I'd say you have a much bigger problem in your life than a mean boss.

You haven't been reading my posts, have you Cecile. If you had, you would know that you are accusing Nosmo and me wrongly here.

Neither Nosmo nor I have suggested that it is our place to change an employer's business model. He has expressed his opinion that he loves a Saturday Evening Post Norman Rockwell observance of Thanksgiving and he would much like to return to the days that almost all those in non essential occupations got to experience that. And in his opinion, the lure of profits should not upstage that. And he feels critical of those who do put profits ahead of the traditional Thanksgiving just as you or I would be critical of those who do not respect American customs during the playing of the National Anthem or saluting the flag. We aren't demanding they be forced to respect those customs. But we wish everybody would.

Wishing is not totalitarianism.

His opinion is in no way coercive. It is in no way intended to take away anybody's choices or liberties. His opinion I believe comes from the heart and is not born of any malice or ulterior motives of any kind. My personal view of the best way to celebrate Thanksgiving is not the same as his. I don't have a problem with the stores opening on Thanskgiving. But that does not make his point of view in any way wrong.

And I did not say or even suggest that I did not create my own stress in preparations to celebrate Christmas either, or that I had to join in with the modern day cultural customs and/or expectations. I was blaming nobody. I was expressing a personal point of view that Christmas has become materialistic and that does increase stress for many people. That is not an evil observation. It is simply an observation.

Respecting American customs. There it is. I'm sure that some employers see only the bottom line. Some regard labor as merely a commodity like raw materials or the cost of shipping, but not as members of a family. I'm also sure that some employees are more than willing to go along with that position so long as the paychecks keep coming. I'm sure that, given our consumer driven economy, some consumers are willing to forgo Thanksgiving with their family in order to pursue that bargain.

But there has to be a place in our society to give thanks from time to time. Remember, Thanksgiving is a verb. There has to be a place for our families in this consumer driven society.

We hear rants and raves about "family values" all the time. Usually those rants are filtered through hatred. Hatred of the 'other'. The homosexual. the single mother, the mixed race couple. And here's a Liberal of the first order asking for civility and family time! The resistance to my plea comes in the form of a business driven argument. Not an argument based on family, gathering together for a grand meal, giving thanks for all the bounty one is showered with here in America.

No, the argument is businesses should be permitted to do as they please and if what they do interferes with family, well, they are businesses and therefore more important than everything else.

Let business do what it wants. But to allow them to erode a tradition like Thanksgiving (which is as much family oriented as any observation set aside during the calendar year) is something I will proudly stand against. Long live Thanksgiving. Let's not turn it into yet another retail event.

 

[High_Gravity]

I want turkey, collards, mashed potatoes, mushroom gravy, yams and rolls! lots of rolls!

 

[Pogo]

And in the Christmas play, I played Mrs. Cratchit.

THE HORROR!

I could see Unkotare playing the part of Scrooge...

 

[Foxfyre]

Well, Foxy, who is making Christmas a "materialistic, stressful nightmare" for you, or for anyone, other than themselves? Do I have the ability to force you to overspend, stress out over details, etc. regarding the holidays? If you choose NOT to participate in that, can I do anything to change that?

My employer is open over holidays, as part of its 24/7 business model. They inform all of their prospective employees before they're hired that they are open on holidays, and that there is a possibility that they will be required to fill the necessary spaces for that. I chose to accept the job despite that. Usually, those holiday positions are filled by employees volunteering to do so, because they want the holiday pay that goes with it. One supervisor told me he didn't even remember the last time they had mandatory holiday work in our division.

Is it your place, or Nosmo's, or anyone else's, to change my employer's business model, or to deny those employees their choice to work holidays, based on how YOU think life "should" be, and where YOU think those people "should" be based on YOUR personal perception of what is and isn't ethical?

Life occasionally sucks. Wear a helmet. And if the necessity of working one lousy day out of the year destroys your family bonding and closeness, JUST because it's listed on the calendar as a "holiday", then I'd say you have a much bigger problem in your life than a mean boss.

You haven't been reading my posts, have you Cecile. If you had, you would know that you are accusing Nosmo and me wrongly here.

Neither Nosmo nor I have suggested that it is our place to change an employer's business model. He has expressed his opinion that he loves a Saturday Evening Post Norman Rockwell observance of Thanksgiving and he would much like to return to the days that almost all those in non essential occupations got to experience that. And in his opinion, the lure of profits should not upstage that. And he feels critical of those who do put profits ahead of the traditional Thanksgiving just as you or I would be critical of those who do not respect American customs during the playing of the National Anthem or saluting the flag. We aren't demanding they be forced to respect those customs. But we wish everybody would.

Wishing is not totalitarianism.

His opinion is in no way coercive. It is in no way intended to take away anybody's choices or liberties. His opinion I believe comes from the heart and is not born of any malice or ulterior motives of any kind. My personal view of the best way to celebrate Thanksgiving is not the same as his. I don't have a problem with the stores opening on Thanskgiving. But that does not make his point of view in any way wrong.

And I did not say or even suggest that I did not create my own stress in preparations to celebrate Christmas either, or that I had to join in with the modern day cultural customs and/or expectations. I was blaming nobody. I was expressing a personal point of view that Christmas has become materialistic and that does increase stress for many people. That is not an evil observation. It is simply an observation.

Respecting American customs. There it is. I'm sure that some employers see only the bottom line. Some regard labor as merely a commodity like raw materials or the cost of shipping, but not as members of a family. I'm also sure that some employees are more than willing to go along with that position so long as the paychecks keep coming. I'm sure that, given our consumer driven economy, some consumers are willing to forgo Thanksgiving with their family in order to pursue that bargain.

But there has to be a place in our society to giver thanks from time to time. Remember, Thanksgiving is a verb. There has to be a place for our families in this consumer driven society.

We hear rants and raves about "family values" all the time. Usually those rants are filtered through hatred. Hatred of the 'other'. The homosexual. the single mother, the mixed race couple. And here's a Liberal of the first order asking for civility and family time! The resistance to my plea comes in the form of a business driven argument. Not an argument based on family, gathering together for a grand meal, giving thanks for all the bounty one is showered with here in America.

No, the argument is businesses should be permitted to do as they please and if what they do interferes with family, well, they are businesses and therefore more important than everything else.

Let business do what it wants. But to allow them to erode a tradition like Thanksgiving (which is as much family oriented as any observation set aside during the calendar year) is something I will proudly stand against. Long live Thanksgiving. Let's not turn it into yet another retail event.

Be careful Nosmo, or I'm going to have to apologize to Cecile when I defended your moives. When you use phrases like "But to allow them to. . . .I will proudly stand against" you are dangerously close to suggesting that they should not be allowed to do that. But you did preface that with a qualification so you're still okay.

And I think I'm okay that I don't care that the stores open and don't believe that needs to interfere with a traditional Thanksgiving in any way for those who want a traditional Thanksgiving. I just put the turkey for our Thanksgiving dinner in the freezer. And I can honestly say I am not looking forward to thawing it out and going through all the hassle to stuff and cook it. But my Aunt, who will be with us for Thanksgiving, cherishes the traditional meal just as you do. So I'm making a traditional meal for her. Otherwise, I simply would not do it because neither Hombre or I care whether we do the traditional thing or not.

 

[Pogo]

Well, Foxy, who is making Christmas a "materialistic, stressful nightmare" for you, or for anyone, other than themselves? Do I have the ability to force you to overspend, stress out over details, etc. regarding the holidays? If you choose NOT to participate in that, can I do anything to change that?

My employer is open over holidays, as part of its 24/7 business model. They inform all of their prospective employees before they're hired that they are open on holidays, and that there is a possibility that they will be required to fill the necessary spaces for that. I chose to accept the job despite that. Usually, those holiday positions are filled by employees volunteering to do so, because they want the holiday pay that goes with it. One supervisor told me he didn't even remember the last time they had mandatory holiday work in our division.

Is it your place, or Nosmo's, or anyone else's, to change my employer's business model, or to deny those employees their choice to work holidays, based on how YOU think life "should" be, and where YOU think those people "should" be based on YOUR personal perception of what is and isn't ethical?

Life occasionally sucks. Wear a helmet. And if the necessity of working one lousy day out of the year destroys your family bonding and closeness, JUST because it's listed on the calendar as a "holiday", then I'd say you have a much bigger problem in your life than a mean boss.

You haven't been reading my posts, have you Cecile. If you had, you would know that you are accusing Nosmo and me wrongly here.

Neither Nosmo nor I have suggested that it is our place to change an employer's business model. He has expressed his opinion that he loves a Saturday Evening Post Norman Rockwell observance of Thanksgiving and he would much like to return to the days that almost all those in non essential occupations got to experience that. And in his opinion, the lure of profits should not upstage that. And he feels critical of those who do put profits ahead of the traditional Thanksgiving just as you or I would be critical of those who do not respect American customs during the playing of the National Anthem or saluting the flag. We aren't demanding they be forced to respect those customs. But we wish everybody would.

Wishing is not totalitarianism.

His opinion is in no way coercive. It is in no way intended to take away anybody's choices or liberties. His opinion I believe comes from the heart and is not born of any malice or ulterior motives of any kind. My personal view of the best way to celebrate Thanksgiving is not the same as his. I don't have a problem with the stores opening on Thanskgiving. But that does not make his point of view in any way wrong.

And I did not say or even suggest that I did not create my own stress in preparations to celebrate Christmas either, or that I had to join in with the modern day cultural customs and/or expectations. I was blaming nobody. I was expressing a personal point of view that Christmas has become materialistic and that does increase stress for many people. That is not an evil observation. It is simply an observation.

Respecting American customs. There it is. I'm sure that some employers see only the bottom line. Some regard labor as merely a commodity like raw materials or the cost of shipping, but not as members of a family. I'm also sure that some employees are more than willing to go along with that position so long as the paychecks keep coming. I'm sure that, given our consumer driven economy, some consumers are willing to forgo Thanksgiving with their family in order to pursue that bargain.

But there has to be a place in our society to give thanks from time to time. Remember, Thanksgiving is a verb. There has to be a place for our families in this consumer driven society.

We hear rants and raves about "family values" all the time. Usually those rants are filtered through hatred. Hatred of the 'other'. The homosexual. the single mother, the mixed race couple. And here's a Liberal of the first order asking for civility and family time! The resistance to my plea comes in the form of a business driven argument. Not an argument based on family, gathering together for a grand meal, giving thanks for all the bounty one is showered with here in America.

No, the argument is businesses should be permitted to do as they please and if what they do interferes with family, well, they are businesses and therefore more important than everything else.

Let business do what it wants. But to allow them to erode a tradition like Thanksgiving (which is as much family oriented as any observation set aside during the calendar year) is something I will proudly stand against. Long live Thanksgiving. Let's not turn it into yet another retail event.

Again, well said. And that's why I'm still waiting for Bill O'Reilly and his rant on the War on Thanksgiving. Maybe he's out looking for a Thanksgiving falafel....

Given that the poll is running 94% in agreement with you, we can conclude that a whole lot of people argue just for the sake of the Argue. Some are drowning so deep in their ideology that they'll defend, I dunno, trans fats or sump'm crazy like that.

 

[Pogo]

I want turkey, collards, mashed potatoes, mushroom gravy, yams and rolls! lots of rolls!

Keep in mind.... you are what you eat.

 

[Katzndogz]

Well, Foxy, who is making Christmas a "materialistic, stressful nightmare" for you, or for anyone, other than themselves? Do I have the ability to force you to overspend, stress out over details, etc. regarding the holidays? If you choose NOT to participate in that, can I do anything to change that?

My employer is open over holidays, as part of its 24/7 business model. They inform all of their prospective employees before they're hired that they are open on holidays, and that there is a possibility that they will be required to fill the necessary spaces for that. I chose to accept the job despite that. Usually, those holiday positions are filled by employees volunteering to do so, because they want the holiday pay that goes with it. One supervisor told me he didn't even remember the last time they had mandatory holiday work in our division.

Is it your place, or Nosmo's, or anyone else's, to change my employer's business model, or to deny those employees their choice to work holidays, based on how YOU think life "should" be, and where YOU think those people "should" be based on YOUR personal perception of what is and isn't ethical?

Life occasionally sucks. Wear a helmet. And if the necessity of working one lousy day out of the year destroys your family bonding and closeness, JUST because it's listed on the calendar as a "holiday", then I'd say you have a much bigger problem in your life than a mean boss.

You haven't been reading my posts, have you Cecile. If you had, you would know that you are accusing Nosmo and me wrongly here.

Neither Nosmo nor I have suggested that it is our place to change an employer's business model. He has expressed his opinion that he loves a Saturday Evening Post Norman Rockwell observance of Thanksgiving and he would much like to return to the days that almost all those in non essential occupations got to experience that. And in his opinion, the lure of profits should not upstage that. And he feels critical of those who do put profits ahead of the traditional Thanksgiving just as you or I would be critical of those who do not respect American customs during the playing of the National Anthem or saluting the flag. We aren't demanding they be forced to respect those customs. But we wish everybody would.

Wishing is not totalitarianism.

His opinion is in no way coercive. It is in no way intended to take away anybody's choices or liberties. His opinion I believe comes from the heart and is not born of any malice or ulterior motives of any kind. My personal view of the best way to celebrate Thanksgiving is not the same as his. I don't have a problem with the stores opening on Thanskgiving. But that does not make his point of view in any way wrong.

And I did not say or even suggest that I did not create my own stress in preparations to celebrate Christmas either, or that I had to join in with the modern day cultural customs and/or expectations. I was blaming nobody. I was expressing a personal point of view that Christmas has become materialistic and that does increase stress for many people. That is not an evil observation. It is simply an observation.

Respecting American customs. There it is. I'm sure that some employers see only the bottom line. Some regard labor as merely a commodity like raw materials or the cost of shipping, but not as members of a family. I'm also sure that some employees are more than willing to go along with that position so long as the paychecks keep coming. I'm sure that, given our consumer driven economy, some consumers are willing to forgo Thanksgiving with their family in order to pursue that bargain.

But there has to be a place in our society to give thanks from time to time. Remember, Thanksgiving is a verb. There has to be a place for our families in this consumer driven society.

We hear rants and raves about "family values" all the time. Usually those rants are filtered through hatred. Hatred of the 'other'. The homosexual. the single mother, the mixed race couple. And here's a Liberal of the first order asking for civility and family time! The resistance to my plea comes in the form of a business driven argument. Not an argument based on family, gathering together for a grand meal, giving thanks for all the bounty one is showered with here in America.

No, the argument is businesses should be permitted to do as they please and if what they do interferes with family, well, they are businesses and therefore more important than everything else.

Let business do what it wants. But to allow them to erode a tradition like Thanksgiving (which is as much family oriented as any observation set aside during the calendar year) is something I will proudly stand against. Long live Thanksgiving. Let's not turn it into yet another retail event.

Labor IS a commodity, like hog bellies. It is a unit. Like any other unit of production. Businesses opening on Thanksgiving, and they are opening at 8PM long after the family arguments have bored or antagonized the family members out the door aren't influencing family togetherness, it is a response to the lack of family togetherness.

 

[Nosmo King]

You haven't been reading my posts, have you Cecile. If you had, you would know that you are accusing Nosmo and me wrongly here.

Neither Nosmo nor I have suggested that it is our place to change an employer's business model. He has expressed his opinion that he loves a Saturday Evening Post Norman Rockwell observance of Thanksgiving and he would much like to return to the days that almost all those in non essential occupations got to experience that. And in his opinion, the lure of profits should not upstage that. And he feels critical of those who do put profits ahead of the traditional Thanksgiving just as you or I would be critical of those who do not respect American customs during the playing of the National Anthem or saluting the flag. We aren't demanding they be forced to respect those customs. But we wish everybody would.

Wishing is not totalitarianism.

His opinion is in no way coercive. It is in no way intended to take away anybody's choices or liberties. His opinion I believe comes from the heart and is not born of any malice or ulterior motives of any kind. My personal view of the best way to celebrate Thanksgiving is not the same as his. I don't have a problem with the stores opening on Thanskgiving. But that does not make his point of view in any way wrong.

And I did not say or even suggest that I did not create my own stress in preparations to celebrate Christmas either, or that I had to join in with the modern day cultural customs and/or expectations. I was blaming nobody. I was expressing a personal point of view that Christmas has become materialistic and that does increase stress for many people. That is not an evil observation. It is simply an observation.

Respecting American customs. There it is. I'm sure that some employers see only the bottom line. Some regard labor as merely a commodity like raw materials or the cost of shipping, but not as members of a family. I'm also sure that some employees are more than willing to go along with that position so long as the paychecks keep coming. I'm sure that, given our consumer driven economy, some consumers are willing to forgo Thanksgiving with their family in order to pursue that bargain.

But there has to be a place in our society to giver thanks from time to time. Remember, Thanksgiving is a verb. There has to be a place for our families in this consumer driven society.

We hear rants and raves about "family values" all the time. Usually those rants are filtered through hatred. Hatred of the 'other'. The homosexual. the single mother, the mixed race couple. And here's a Liberal of the first order asking for civility and family time! The resistance to my plea comes in the form of a business driven argument. Not an argument based on family, gathering together for a grand meal, giving thanks for all the bounty one is showered with here in America.

No, the argument is businesses should be permitted to do as they please and if what they do interferes with family, well, they are businesses and therefore more important than everything else.

Let business do what it wants. But to allow them to erode a tradition like Thanksgiving (which is as much family oriented as any observation set aside during the calendar year) is something I will proudly stand against. Long live Thanksgiving. Let's not turn it into yet another retail event.

Be careful Nosmo, or I'm going to have to apologize to Cecile when I defended your moives. When you use phrases like "But to allow them to. . . .I will proudly stand against" you are dangerously close to suggesting that they should not be allowed to do that. But you did preface that with a qualification so you're still okay.

And I think I'm okay that I don't care that the stores open and don't believe that needs to interfere with a traditional Thanksgiving in any way for those who want a traditional Thanksgiving. I just put the turkey for our Thanksgiving dinner in the freezer. And I can honestly say I am not looking forward to thawing it out and going through all the hassle to stuff and cook it. But my Aunt, who will be with us for Thanksgiving, cherishes the traditional meal just as you do. So I'm making a traditional meal for her. Otherwise, I simply would not do it because neither Hombre or I care whether we do the traditional thing or not.

Thanks again Foxy for stepping up in my defense. I'm not looking to make a law forbidding business from exploiting Thanksgiving, I just think it's a shame that they do.

Wanna hear something ironic? I don't eat poultry. I haven't since 1962. I have ham on Thanksgiving. Mom and now my brother roast a turkey and the family goes gaga over it, but poultry was never my particular brand of tea. Once, years ago, Mom was so frustrated about my lack of enthusiasm over poultry, she fried up a hamburger for my entrée. It was so small, I could slide it over the golden shock of wheat the dinner plates were decorated with and still see 75% of it. It had the consistency of a hockey puck and was burned beyond recognition as food. But I choked the thing down and asked for seconds of the cranberry sauce!

 

[koshergrl]

Thanksgiving night is generally a hopping night for watering holes.

Should we shut them down, too?

 

[Pogo]

You haven't been reading my posts, have you Cecile. If you had, you would know that you are accusing Nosmo and me wrongly here.

Neither Nosmo nor I have suggested that it is our place to change an employer's business model. He has expressed his opinion that he loves a Saturday Evening Post Norman Rockwell observance of Thanksgiving and he would much like to return to the days that almost all those in non essential occupations got to experience that. And in his opinion, the lure of profits should not upstage that. And he feels critical of those who do put profits ahead of the traditional Thanksgiving just as you or I would be critical of those who do not respect American customs during the playing of the National Anthem or saluting the flag. We aren't demanding they be forced to respect those customs. But we wish everybody would.

Wishing is not totalitarianism.

His opinion is in no way coercive. It is in no way intended to take away anybody's choices or liberties. His opinion I believe comes from the heart and is not born of any malice or ulterior motives of any kind. My personal view of the best way to celebrate Thanksgiving is not the same as his. I don't have a problem with the stores opening on Thanskgiving. But that does not make his point of view in any way wrong.

And I did not say or even suggest that I did not create my own stress in preparations to celebrate Christmas either, or that I had to join in with the modern day cultural customs and/or expectations. I was blaming nobody. I was expressing a personal point of view that Christmas has become materialistic and that does increase stress for many people. That is not an evil observation. It is simply an observation.

Respecting American customs. There it is. I'm sure that some employers see only the bottom line. Some regard labor as merely a commodity like raw materials or the cost of shipping, but not as members of a family. I'm also sure that some employees are more than willing to go along with that position so long as the paychecks keep coming. I'm sure that, given our consumer driven economy, some consumers are willing to forgo Thanksgiving with their family in order to pursue that bargain.

But there has to be a place in our society to giver thanks from time to time. Remember, Thanksgiving is a verb. There has to be a place for our families in this consumer driven society.

We hear rants and raves about "family values" all the time. Usually those rants are filtered through hatred. Hatred of the 'other'. The homosexual. the single mother, the mixed race couple. And here's a Liberal of the first order asking for civility and family time! The resistance to my plea comes in the form of a business driven argument. Not an argument based on family, gathering together for a grand meal, giving thanks for all the bounty one is showered with here in America.

No, the argument is businesses should be permitted to do as they please and if what they do interferes with family, well, they are businesses and therefore more important than everything else.

Let business do what it wants. But to allow them to erode a tradition like Thanksgiving (which is as much family oriented as any observation set aside during the calendar year) is something I will proudly stand against. Long live Thanksgiving. Let's not turn it into yet another retail event.

Be careful Nosmo, or I'm going to have to apologize to Cecile when I defended your moives. When you use phrases like "But to allow them to. . . .I will proudly stand against" you are dangerously close to suggesting that they should not be allowed to do that. But you did preface that with a qualification so you're still okay.

And I think I'm okay that I don't care that the stores open and don't believe that needs to interfere with a traditional Thanksgiving in any way for those who want a traditional Thanksgiving. I just put the turkey for our Thanksgiving dinner in the freezer. And I can honestly say I am not looking forward to thawing it out and going through all the hassle to stuff and cook it. But my Aunt, who will be with us for Thanksgiving, cherishes the traditional meal just as you do. So I'm making a traditional meal for her. Otherwise, I simply would not do it because neither Hombre or I care whether we do the traditional thing or not.

Foxy's an excellent dancer.

 

[Nosmo King]

You haven't been reading my posts, have you Cecile. If you had, you would know that you are accusing Nosmo and me wrongly here.

Neither Nosmo nor I have suggested that it is our place to change an employer's business model. He has expressed his opinion that he loves a Saturday Evening Post Norman Rockwell observance of Thanksgiving and he would much like to return to the days that almost all those in non essential occupations got to experience that. And in his opinion, the lure of profits should not upstage that. And he feels critical of those who do put profits ahead of the traditional Thanksgiving just as you or I would be critical of those who do not respect American customs during the playing of the National Anthem or saluting the flag. We aren't demanding they be forced to respect those customs. But we wish everybody would.

Wishing is not totalitarianism.

His opinion is in no way coercive. It is in no way intended to take away anybody's choices or liberties. His opinion I believe comes from the heart and is not born of any malice or ulterior motives of any kind. My personal view of the best way to celebrate Thanksgiving is not the same as his. I don't have a problem with the stores opening on Thanskgiving. But that does not make his point of view in any way wrong.

And I did not say or even suggest that I did not create my own stress in preparations to celebrate Christmas either, or that I had to join in with the modern day cultural customs and/or expectations. I was blaming nobody. I was expressing a personal point of view that Christmas has become materialistic and that does increase stress for many people. That is not an evil observation. It is simply an observation.

Respecting American customs. There it is. I'm sure that some employers see only the bottom line. Some regard labor as merely a commodity like raw materials or the cost of shipping, but not as members of a family. I'm also sure that some employees are more than willing to go along with that position so long as the paychecks keep coming. I'm sure that, given our consumer driven economy, some consumers are willing to forgo Thanksgiving with their family in order to pursue that bargain.

But there has to be a place in our society to give thanks from time to time. Remember, Thanksgiving is a verb. There has to be a place for our families in this consumer driven society.

We hear rants and raves about "family values" all the time. Usually those rants are filtered through hatred. Hatred of the 'other'. The homosexual. the single mother, the mixed race couple. And here's a Liberal of the first order asking for civility and family time! The resistance to my plea comes in the form of a business driven argument. Not an argument based on family, gathering together for a grand meal, giving thanks for all the bounty one is showered with here in America.

No, the argument is businesses should be permitted to do as they please and if what they do interferes with family, well, they are businesses and therefore more important than everything else.

Let business do what it wants. But to allow them to erode a tradition like Thanksgiving (which is as much family oriented as any observation set aside during the calendar year) is something I will proudly stand against. Long live Thanksgiving. Let's not turn it into yet another retail event.

Labor IS a commodity, like hog bellies. It is a unit. Like any other unit of production. Businesses opening on Thanksgiving, and they are opening at 8PM long after the family arguments have bored or antagonized the family members out the door aren't influencing family togetherness, it is a response to the lack of family togetherness.

Cynicism has its place. But not as a tool to erode family tradition. Good luck in the Brave New World.

 

[Katzndogz]

Respecting American customs. There it is. I'm sure that some employers see only the bottom line. Some regard labor as merely a commodity like raw materials or the cost of shipping, but not as members of a family. I'm also sure that some employees are more than willing to go along with that position so long as the paychecks keep coming. I'm sure that, given our consumer driven economy, some consumers are willing to forgo Thanksgiving with their family in order to pursue that bargain.

But there has to be a place in our society to give thanks from time to time. Remember, Thanksgiving is a verb. There has to be a place for our families in this consumer driven society.

We hear rants and raves about "family values" all the time. Usually those rants are filtered through hatred. Hatred of the 'other'. The homosexual. the single mother, the mixed race couple. And here's a Liberal of the first order asking for civility and family time! The resistance to my plea comes in the form of a business driven argument. Not an argument based on family, gathering together for a grand meal, giving thanks for all the bounty one is showered with here in America.

No, the argument is businesses should be permitted to do as they please and if what they do interferes with family, well, they are businesses and therefore more important than everything else.

Let business do what it wants. But to allow them to erode a tradition like Thanksgiving (which is as much family oriented as any observation set aside during the calendar year) is something I will proudly stand against. Long live Thanksgiving. Let's not turn it into yet another retail event.

Labor IS a commodity, like hog bellies. It is a unit. Like any other unit of production. Businesses opening on Thanksgiving, and they are opening at 8PM long after the family arguments have bored or antagonized the family members out the door aren't influencing family togetherness, it is a response to the lack of family togetherness.

Cynicism has its place. But not as a tool to erode family tradition. Good luck in the Brave New World.

What you are not quite understanding is that all family traditions are not YOUR family traditions. You said that your position is the Norman Rockwell, idealized family get together. Very few families are really like that. Today, more than ever fewer families are families in that traditional sense. There was a time when "tradition" did not include either television or football. Now it does. People have to work to make that football game happen, not least of which are the players themselves. How many men get tickets for the big game and leave families who can't be bothered at home?

Tradition is extremely personal. It is YOUR tradition, and yours alone. It is not shared.