The Democrats' strategy is now clear

[frigidweirdo]

Much has been said and written about why and how the Democrats find themselves out of the White House, and in the minority in Congress. Not to mention State Houses. We all know the arguments, so let's focus on something else.

It's clear now that the Democrats' strategy for 2018 and 2020 is not to change any of their behaviors, whether you agree with them or not. The strategy is to bring Trump down as far as possible and then make those elections a simple referendum.

That was essentially the Republicans' strategy with Obama, and the Democrats can't be blamed for pointing at that and saying, "See? Let's just do that. It worked. And it's easier". That's where we are. That's where our politics are.

The press and the Democrats are going to minimize/avoid any positive developments in areas such as the economy, and they're going to focus on Trump and his behaviors.

So given that, why won't that work in 2018 and 2020?
.

The main one would be the system that hasn't given the US a new president with a majority of the votes since 1992.

Yes, it's been 25 years since a Republican not in office managed to get more votes than their counterpart.

And yet in this time the Republicans have managed to get HALF of the presidents.

Don't fuck around pretending it's because the Republicans somehow have the message of the people.

You bring up a good point that shows how messed up is the democrat party. No one has campaigned in CA and NY in years, why? Because it is full of democrat voters. So in effect democrats have been spotted a really big lead, yet they lose. Thankfully the founders realized that one state could dominate and started the electoral college.

No, this isn't how messed up the Democratic Party is, it's how messed up THE SYSTEM IS.

In Presidential elections they only campaign in TWELVE STATES because all the others are basic certainties for one party or the other. In other words, the system says only 20% of the people get to decide who the president is. That's fucked up.

It wouldn't matter if it were popular vote only then it would just be another 12 states. At least the way it is the democrats can't keep stuffing CA with illegal voters who can thus sway the vote.

And again I point out to you, the democrats always start out with a huge electoral lead, and they lose. THAT is why you want to change the system, you want to make it as unfair as it has to be so democrat win elections.

I don't really get anything you've just said.

No, if it were PR it wouldn't be "another 12 states" at all. You simply don't understand PR. You need to go look at some countries which have PR and see that regions don't really matter. People get one vote and if enough people get above the threshold then you get into parliament.

Let's try this.

You have Reps and Dems and then you have a center left and center right party, and a further right and further left party. Six parties, like in Germany.

Under the FPTP post system a voter goes and they see six parties. They want to vote for the center left party but they think "if I vote center left then I split the vote and the Republican wins". A center right winger does the same. So they vote for the main two parties to STOP the other party from winning. Each little area is independent of any other area.

With PR you have someone in Washington who wants to vote for center left and someone in Wyoming who wants to vote center right. They do so, because they know that NATIONWIDE this party will get above the threshold, so they know they will be represented in DC and they'll not be wasting their vote.

So they vote for who they want to vote for.

Let's say this. With FPTP in Congress. 2.9% of the votes didn't go to the Reps and Dems.

In Germany with PR 53.5% of the people voted for the main two parties, in comparison with 97.1% in the US.

Germany has a duel system. FPTP and PR, 8% of people switched their vote from FPTP big parties to PR smaller parties.

The FDP would have got ZERO seats with FPTP because it couldn't get enough votes in a single area to get into parliament. With PR it got 10.7% of the vote and 80 seats out of 700. Just over 10%. So, 10% of people would have basically been disenfranchised.


So, again, back to the US. PR would chance from 97.1% to maybe 66% of the people voting for the main two parties. That would mean that Congress might be 33% Rep, 33% Dem and some smaller parties taking in about 10%.



62.31% of people voted Dem, 36.89% voted Republican.
Dems gained 39 seats and Reps 14

Let's take California. Only two parties won in California. Republicans gained about 25% of the seats and Dems about 75%. Which is a little unfair, right, as California is only 62% Dem but they get 75% of the seats.

With PR what would happen is that Republicans would vote, I'd say about 1/3rd of Republican voters would vote someone else and the same for Democrats.

So, in California you'd have 40% Dems, 24% Reps, and then you'd have a center right party taking about 2/3rds of those Republicans votes, so 8% for the center right, and you'd have 14% for center left and then you'd have 7% for further left and 4% for further right.

This would then pool with all the other states. So, the 4% for further right would not pass a 5% threshold (some do 5% some do 3%), however it would probably get seats in Congress because other states would vote more for this party. Which means the people would be represented.

California would go from being 75% Democrat in Congress, to 40%.

People who want to vote for someone else would vote and their VOTE WOULD COUNT. Right now, it doesn't count.

In primaries Greens got some votes, but then didn't stand in the main event. Why? They know they don't stand a chance. But with PR they'd have a chance.

You really need to understand how PR works.

 

[NYcarbineer]

When you're given the gift of having someone like Trump to run against, to make the election a referendum on him,

you don't pass up the chance.

And yet Hillary was so bad she lost. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

You RWnuts think you're going to get another HRC to run against in 2020. Good luck with that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Much has been said and written about why and how the Democrats find themselves out of the White House, and in the minority in Congress. Not to mention State Houses. We all know the arguments, so let's focus on something else.

It's clear now that the Democrats' strategy for 2018 and 2020 is not to change any of their behaviors, whether you agree with them or not. The strategy is to bring Trump down as far as possible and then make those elections a simple referendum.

That was essentially the Republicans' strategy with Obama, and the Democrats can't be blamed for pointing at that and saying, "See? Let's just do that. It worked. And it's easier". That's where we are. That's where our politics are.

The press and the Democrats are going to minimize/avoid any positive developments in areas such as the economy, and they're going to focus on Trump and his behaviors.

So given that, why won't that work in 2018 and 2020?
.

The main one would be the system that hasn't given the US a new president with a majority of the votes since 1992.

Yes, it's been 25 years since a Republican not in office managed to get more votes than their counterpart.

And yet in this time the Republicans have managed to get HALF of the presidents.

Don't fuck around pretending it's because the Republicans somehow have the message of the people.

You bring up a good point that shows how messed up is the democrat party. No one has campaigned in CA and NY in years, why? Because it is full of democrat voters. So in effect democrats have been spotted a really big lead, yet they lose. Thankfully the founders realized that one state could dominate and started the electoral college.

No, this isn't how messed up the Democratic Party is, it's how messed up THE SYSTEM IS.

In Presidential elections they only campaign in TWELVE STATES because all the others are basic certainties for one party or the other. In other words, the system says only 20% of the people get to decide who the president is. That's fucked up.

It wouldn't matter if it were popular vote only then it would just be another 12 states. At least the way it is the democrats can't keep stuffing CA with illegal voters who can thus sway the vote.

And again I point out to you, the democrats always start out with a huge electoral lead, and they lose. THAT is why you want to change the system, you want to make it as unfair as it has to be so democrat win elections.

Republicans rule from a minority

that's why they hate democracy.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The main one would be the system that hasn't given the US a new president with a majority of the votes since 1992.

Yes, it's been 25 years since a Republican not in office managed to get more votes than their counterpart.

And yet in this time the Republicans have managed to get HALF of the presidents.

Don't fuck around pretending it's because the Republicans somehow have the message of the people.

You bring up a good point that shows how messed up is the democrat party. No one has campaigned in CA and NY in years, why? Because it is full of democrat voters. So in effect democrats have been spotted a really big lead, yet they lose. Thankfully the founders realized that one state could dominate and started the electoral college.

No, this isn't how messed up the Democratic Party is, it's how messed up THE SYSTEM IS.

In Presidential elections they only campaign in TWELVE STATES because all the others are basic certainties for one party or the other. In other words, the system says only 20% of the people get to decide who the president is. That's fucked up.

It wouldn't matter if it were popular vote only then it would just be another 12 states. At least the way it is the democrats can't keep stuffing CA with illegal voters who can thus sway the vote.

And again I point out to you, the democrats always start out with a huge electoral lead, and they lose. THAT is why you want to change the system, you want to make it as unfair as it has to be so democrat win elections.

Republicans rule from a minority

that's why they hate democracy.

But will tell you how much they love Democracy. It's part of the plan.

 

[Freewill]

When you're given the gift of having someone like Trump to run against, to make the election a referendum on him,

you don't pass up the chance.

And yet Hillary was so bad she lost. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

You RWnuts think you're going to get another HRC to run against in 2020. Good luck with that.

She's the best the democrats had, so it doesn't matter whom you run. That is how bad the democrats have become.

 

[frigidweirdo]

When you're given the gift of having someone like Trump to run against, to make the election a referendum on him,

you don't pass up the chance.

And yet Hillary was so bad she lost. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

You RWnuts think you're going to get another HRC to run against in 2020. Good luck with that.

She's the best the democrats had, so it doesn't matter whom you run. That is how bad the democrats have become.

And Trump's the best the Republicans have... that's how bad the Republicans have become.

 

[sealybobo]

I would say you are the dumbest Greek I know but unfortunately I've met many stupid fucking Greeks.

“You’ve taken business bankruptcies six times.”
–Hillary Clinton

“On occasion – four times – we used certain laws that are there.”

–Donald Trump

THE FACT CHECKER | Clinton is correct.

I too have met a number of malakes, but ever a bigger wanker or dtsier malaka than yourself, rarely, And I, unlike you, have lived in Greece about 22 years of my life.

Greeks from Greece are the biggest malakes!!! Are you kidding me? I at least have respect for the Greeks who came to America and worked hard and made something of themselves. But usually those aren't the die hard Republicans. No no. The die hard right wing Greeks are usually the dumbest and brokest or their parents have a lot of money.

And like Howard Stern said, nothing worst than a person who inherited their money. For some reason they know it all. They know everything. And many of the Greeks I know who are Republicans own business' their parents started and they are not college educated.

And Greeks from Greece are the biggest know it alls. My brothers brother in law and his father in law are two great examples. Hell, I can name dozens of stupid Greeks who vote Republican including my arrogant grandfather who died penniless. If it wasn't for social security he and my Yaya would have been fucked.

Or we would have been because us liberal kids and grandkids would have paid their bills and allowed them to remain arrogant and ignorant.

had a business in Astoria NY for many years Think more Greeks there than in Athens All hard working people that loved their ouzo

Yea but a lot of them politically are Malakas. We’re just smart not to talk politics in public.

My cousin stayed in Astoria. We stayed with him 3 days in his small apartment. Subway right on his corner. Everything you could possibly need within walking distance. Rooftop like in The Godfather.

He was in college rent was normally $1500 but he only paid $700 a month but he had to take the trash from the side of the building to the street. 2 times a week. Rats as big as dogs.

I love nyc!

My clothing store was right next to the subway Not the elevated but the one on Steinway street One of my stores had a car coming off the roof

If you walked out his place the underground subway was across the street to the right. Around the corner he had fish market, produce stand, little mom and pop shops. So cool.

I wouldn’t want to live there more than a couple weeks though. No lakes in the summer and cold and miserable in the winter

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Mac is correct in that Democrats learned something from Republicans...

Obama, Holder to lead post-Trump redistricting campaign

And they ARE doing things...like trying to get districts drawn in a non partisan manner.

Sure they are. Just like holder looked the other way when the black panthers were intimidating voters with bats at the voting booths.

Good grief, you're both stupid and dishonest. One photo, posted innumerable times by racists, and you buy it. You're disgusting.

And you're still an ignorant idiot. Holder was a supporter of the black panthers and in contempt of congress. Bury that head just a little further and maybe you can describe the exact composition of the core of the earth....or maybe you'll breakout on the other side of earth to see china.

http://www.whiteoutpress.com/articles/2014/q3/list-attorney-general

Awww....do you need a tissue? It's not my doing that you're dishonest and dumb and a bigot, so stop whining.

Lol. Once again, youve been backed up against a wall with facts and you're response is to whine and sling turds.

 

[hadit]

When you're given the gift of having someone like Trump to run against, to make the election a referendum on him,

you don't pass up the chance.

And yet Hillary was so bad she lost. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

You RWnuts think you're going to get another HRC to run against in 2020. Good luck with that.

Why, have the democrats suddenly gotten smart?

 

[rightwinger]

Secret Democratic strategy

1. Allow Trump to speak his mind
2. Sit back as people openly mock him
3. Remind people....We warned you

 

[Mac1958]

Secret Democratic strategy

1. Allow Trump to speak his mind
2. Sit back as people openly mock him
3. Remind people....We warned you

That's pretty much my point. And my guess is that it will work.

But are we ever going to reach a point where we expect a little more from our "leaders"?
.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Mac is correct in that Democrats learned something from Republicans...

Obama, Holder to lead post-Trump redistricting campaign

And they ARE doing things...like trying to get districts drawn in a non partisan manner.

Sure they are. Just like holder looked the other way when the black panthers were intimidating voters with bats at the voting booths.

oh jebus! the lies and exaggeration

it was 2 people, one new blk panther worked for the voting place as a volunteer and the other one did have a stick.... no one was threatened, the man with the bat like stick did not raise it towards anyone AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, it was an all black district, or nearly.....

the black panthers in my day GUARDED the voting places in black districts outside with sticks in hand if memory serves, to make certain no whites tried to prevent them from voting.,....

It seems like you all are just a bunch of sissies afraid of the imaginary boogeyman that your masters told you to be afraid of....

Uh huh. If it were the kkk with crosses at the booth you would be screaming.

two people, one was working the polling place the other had a night stick, they were standing outside talking....

no one was being attacked, the precinct was in a district made up primarily if not all, African Americans....no one voting was scared of just another person of color....the only person that could have been frightened is an outsider to the neighborhood who likely is scared of their own shadow....

Truly, Holder did the right thing...no one deserved jail over that....it's ridiculous to think they did... slap their hand, at most, and ask them to put away the night stick, if it was even against rules to carry one there....

Would you have the same reaction if it were two good old boy rednecks wearing the confederate flag and carrying a club, talking outside a polling place in a district that was made up of primarily, if not all, white people? I mean, you'd think there was no intended intimidation toward the few black voters in the district? Just tell them to put the club away?

Being not a coward I would walk by them without fear. It is the right of all of us to express ourselves until such expression becomes violent. I don't need to carry a gun to go to the grocery store, cowards do.

 

[rightwinger]

Secret Democratic strategy

1. Allow Trump to speak his mind
2. Sit back as people openly mock him
3. Remind people....We warned you

That's pretty much my point. And my guess is that it will work.

But are we ever going to reach a point where we expect a little more from our "leaders"?
.

I doubt it

Politics today is about image and "gotcha"

 

[NYcarbineer]

When you're given the gift of having someone like Trump to run against, to make the election a referendum on him,

you don't pass up the chance.

And yet Hillary was so bad she lost. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

You RWnuts think you're going to get another HRC to run against in 2020. Good luck with that.

Why, have the democrats suddenly gotten smart?

They only have to be less stupid than Trump.

 

[hadit]

Sure they are. Just like holder looked the other way when the black panthers were intimidating voters with bats at the voting booths.

oh jebus! the lies and exaggeration

it was 2 people, one new blk panther worked for the voting place as a volunteer and the other one did have a stick.... no one was threatened, the man with the bat like stick did not raise it towards anyone AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, it was an all black district, or nearly.....

the black panthers in my day GUARDED the voting places in black districts outside with sticks in hand if memory serves, to make certain no whites tried to prevent them from voting.,....

It seems like you all are just a bunch of sissies afraid of the imaginary boogeyman that your masters told you to be afraid of....

Uh huh. If it were the kkk with crosses at the booth you would be screaming.

two people, one was working the polling place the other had a night stick, they were standing outside talking....

no one was being attacked, the precinct was in a district made up primarily if not all, African Americans....no one voting was scared of just another person of color....the only person that could have been frightened is an outsider to the neighborhood who likely is scared of their own shadow....

Truly, Holder did the right thing...no one deserved jail over that....it's ridiculous to think they did... slap their hand, at most, and ask them to put away the night stick, if it was even against rules to carry one there....

Would you have the same reaction if it were two good old boy rednecks wearing the confederate flag and carrying a club, talking outside a polling place in a district that was made up of primarily, if not all, white people? I mean, you'd think there was no intended intimidation toward the few black voters in the district? Just tell them to put the club away?

Being not a coward I would walk by them without fear. It is the right of all of us to express ourselves until such expression becomes violent. I don't need to carry a gun to go to the grocery store, cowards do.

So, no need to call the police, no need to get upset, they're just good old boys hanging out and causing no trouble at all?

 

[hadit]

When you're given the gift of having someone like Trump to run against, to make the election a referendum on him,

you don't pass up the chance.

And yet Hillary was so bad she lost. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

You RWnuts think you're going to get another HRC to run against in 2020. Good luck with that.

Why, have the democrats suddenly gotten smart?

They only have to be less stupid than Trump.

I won't hold my breath.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

oh jebus! the lies and exaggeration

it was 2 people, one new blk panther worked for the voting place as a volunteer and the other one did have a stick.... no one was threatened, the man with the bat like stick did not raise it towards anyone AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, it was an all black district, or nearly.....

the black panthers in my day GUARDED the voting places in black districts outside with sticks in hand if memory serves, to make certain no whites tried to prevent them from voting.,....

It seems like you all are just a bunch of sissies afraid of the imaginary boogeyman that your masters told you to be afraid of....

Uh huh. If it were the kkk with crosses at the booth you would be screaming.

two people, one was working the polling place the other had a night stick, they were standing outside talking....

no one was being attacked, the precinct was in a district made up primarily if not all, African Americans....no one voting was scared of just another person of color....the only person that could have been frightened is an outsider to the neighborhood who likely is scared of their own shadow....

Truly, Holder did the right thing...no one deserved jail over that....it's ridiculous to think they did... slap their hand, at most, and ask them to put away the night stick, if it was even against rules to carry one there....

Would you have the same reaction if it were two good old boy rednecks wearing the confederate flag and carrying a club, talking outside a polling place in a district that was made up of primarily, if not all, white people? I mean, you'd think there was no intended intimidation toward the few black voters in the district? Just tell them to put the club away?

Being not a coward I would walk by them without fear. It is the right of all of us to express ourselves until such expression becomes violent. I don't need to carry a gun to go to the grocery store, cowards do.

So, no need to call the police, no need to get upset, they're just good old boys hanging out and causing no trouble at all?

He would be screaming like the petulant little school girl.

 

[NYcarbineer]

When you're given the gift of having someone like Trump to run against, to make the election a referendum on him,

you don't pass up the chance.

And yet Hillary was so bad she lost. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

You RWnuts think you're going to get another HRC to run against in 2020. Good luck with that.

Why, have the democrats suddenly gotten smart?

They only have to be less stupid than Trump.

I won't hold my breath.

We already had our first referendum on Trump in this years elections and the GOP got hammered.

 

[hadit]

And yet Hillary was so bad she lost. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

You RWnuts think you're going to get another HRC to run against in 2020. Good luck with that.

Why, have the democrats suddenly gotten smart?

They only have to be less stupid than Trump.

I won't hold my breath.

We already had our first referendum on Trump in this years elections and the GOP got hammered.

Actually, we had referenda on Trump after the election and the GOP did very well. It was only in the most recent elections that they saw democrats replace democrats. Regardless, we always expect the party out of power to pick up seats in the midterms. Isn't that what we were told over and over again the last several times the Republicans crushed the democrats?

 

[MarcATL]

Don't fuck around pretending it's because the Republicans somehow have the message of the people.

No, no, you see, according to Mac, the problem is that the Democrats don't pander to working class white males enough by insisting they can't use the N-word or the C-word in public.

Here's the reality. The only thing that keeps the GOP alive is that a lot of rich people pour shitloads of money into it, and into things like Fox News and Hate Radio distracting White People from who is really fucking them.

"Hey, my factory job is moving to China!"

"Look over there, there's some dude in a dress trying to use the lady's room!!!"

and shit, this has been their playbook since Nixon's southern strategy.

So true.

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