NewsVine_Mariyam
Platinum Member
Is it not easier to say "I can't breath" than to summon up the words "you're restricting my ability to catch my breath/take a full breath"?
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The Derek Chauvin Trial Thread
- Thread starter MarcATL
- Start date
beautress
Always Faithful
The pathologists who analyzed Mr. Floyd found fentanyl mixed with other mind-altering substances produced a most convincing likelihood that Mr. Floyd, sadly, was already dying when apprehended by police, and his uncooperative with police led them to thinking he intended to kill someone, including themselves, and the steps they took coincided with saving lives the perpetrator was aiming to take, in accordance with their training. Cops are required to stop threats to other human beings' lives. The rules apply equally to everyone, including the prodigy of slaves who were set free from their oppression 160 years ago. Mr. Floyd broke all the rules that day including a suicidal amount of highly dangerous drug cocktails. The foot on the throat possibly postponed death by fifteen minutes if it slowed the flow of toxins in his bloodstream to the brain. It is truly sad that Mr. Floyd guaranteed his death by the mixed up drugs he used his final day on this earth.So what's the trial based on then?Autopsy. Coroner stated if the guy had been alone in his home the death would have been classified as a drug over dose.
And if I'm not mistaken, the paperwork states that Mr. Floyd died as a result of homicide.
I don't know about what police training involves so I can't comment on the actual hold that Chauvin was doing. The faulty training was the overall situation. I'm sure those officers have to take classes on how to deal with different situations, and I believe they even have to take some psychology classes as well. They need to be able to read the situation, and respond appropriately.The hold he used was taught to him in his training.faulty training
Floyd said many times that he had anxiety and claustrophobia, and the lady at the start of the video told one of the officers that floyd "had something going on up there". Sure, thats a bit vague, but, again, it all has to be considered.
Now, I know its going to be hard to keep everything straight, especially when so much is going on, and all happening so fast, but, when they heard "clausterphobia", "anxiety", and "i can't breathe", that should have sparked something in someone that "hey, maybe we should just let this guy stand up, as long as he's still"
beautress
Always Faithful
Miketx, you're right and then some. Nowhere in dealing with belligerantly uncooperative do the police protocol manuals are they demanding that cops have pHds in medicine, which takes 7 years and many more years if you throw in the specialties of pathology, the study of dying, and pharmacology, the tracking of drugs, as well as irresponsible pushers who fail to test for lethal properties as of the same morning as Mr. Floyd sought to alleviate his pain, frustration, personal sorrows, confusion, and guilt for cheating people poorer than he, whom he passed counterfeit bills against those he chose to cheat.The hold he used was taught to him in his training.faulty training
Last edited:
2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
- 112,162
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I don't know about what police training involves so I can't comment on the actual hold that Chauvin was doing. The faulty training was the overall situation. I'm sure those officers have to take classes on how to deal with different situations, and I believe they even have to take some psychology classes as well. They need to be able to read the situation, and respond appropriately.The hold he used was taught to him in his training.faulty training
Floyd said many times that he had anxiety and claustrophobia, and the lady at the start of the video told one of the officers that floyd "had something going on up there". Sure, thats a bit vague, but, again, it all has to be considered.
Now, I know its going to be hard to keep everything straight, especially when so much is going on, and all happening so fast, but, when they heard "clausterphobia", "anxiety", and "i can't breathe", that should have sparked something in someone that "hey, maybe we should just let this guy stand up, as long as he's still"
The best coverage of the trial is here...
Chauvin Trial Day 1 Wrap-Up: Opening Arguments & Three State Witnesses
State Witnesses: 911 dispatcher, grocery worker witness, martial arts witness
legalinsurrection.com
Now, I know its going to be hard to keep everything straight, especially when so much is going on, and all happening so fast, but, when they heard "clausterphobia", "anxiety", and "i can't breathe", that should have sparked something in someone that "hey, maybe we should just let this guy stand up, as long as he's still"
Also.....he wasn't being still he was resisting.......and it isn't the cops job to take the suspects words as honest when they are trying to arrest them....
There job was to put him in the squad car........he resisted that....that's on him...
2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
- 112,162
- 52,413
- 2,290
The best coverage of the trial, and great analysis....
The state’s opening consisted largely of the kind of hyperbole, emotive pleading, and half-truths that we’ve grown to expect from politically motivated prosecutions, and relatively little focus on the facts required to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in order to secure a just conviction.
For example, Blackwell quoted extensively from the Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) policy manual, but only quoting the “soft” portions of the manual that refer to treating suspects with respect and not using excessive force.
Blackwell somehow neglected to mention the portions of the MPD policy manual that explicitly permit the use of neck restraints, including knee to neck, when dealing with resistant and non-compliant suspects, as well as the portions calling for full-body restraint of suspects believed to be undergoing potentially deadly excited delirium syndrome.
Similarly, Blackwell acknowledged that Floyd had drugs in his system, but only the opioid portion of the drug cocktail on which Floyd was intoxicated. He argued to the jury that Floyd’s opioid (fentanyl) toxicity could not have contributed to his death because opioids make people sleepy, and Floyd was clearly not sleepy (indeed, he forcibly resisted arrest, but Blackwell slides over that awkward reality).
Blackwell neglected, however, to mention that the reason Floyd and his vehicle and passengers were still on scene when the police arrived was because Floyd had passed out in the vehicle and his passengers were unable to rouse him despite their fear that police were about to arrive.
Blackwell also failed to note that Floyd wasn’t merely on fentanyl, the pills he had ingested were a combination of fentanyl and methamphetamine—and as the name suggests, methamphetamine is a powerful stimulant.
Blackwell made great hay out of the fact that the dispatcher who observed scattered portions of the Floyd arrest was purportedly so outraged by what she saw that she called Chauvin’s supervisor to intervene. So shocking was Chauvin’s conduct, he argued, that the dispatcher felt compelled to call the police on the police.
In fact, when that dispatcher testified and her call to the sergeant was played in court, she stated in that call that she had no clear idea if a use-of-force event was even occurring and giggled at the sergeant before hanging up. Hardly the conduct of someone who believed she was watching a police racist murder on a public street in real time. Also, such calls to sergeants were a routine practice when any potential use-of-force event was believed to possibly be taking place, and not something that would be done only in the most extreme case of excessive force.
Blackwell also engaged in the kind of “if the glove don’t fit, you must acquit” rhetoric most of us first encountered during the OJ trial. He repeatedly referred to the “9 minutes and 29 seconds” of Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s neck as “the most important time in this trial,” and of course completely ignored everything leading up to that point. This repetitive reference to the time Chauvin’s knee was on Floyd’s neck is also a constantly repeated refrain being shouted by Benjamin Crump and other leading protestors outside the court room.
Blackwell described the whole series of events as being based merely on Floyd passing a fake $20 bill, which is merely a misdemeanor, for which a ticket could have been given, and not something worthy of a man’s death. Ignored was Floyd’s subsequent forcible non-compliance with arrest for some 10 minutes, or his ingestion of a fatal dose of fentanyl/meth in an effort to prevent discovery of the illicit drugs.
Blackwell also spent a lot of time conflating “putting Floyd on the ground” with “putting Floyd in a life-threatening prone position.” The first is incontrovertibly true, but in fact Floyd was only ever transiently in an actual prone position, if ever, and usually only because he squirmed into that position himself.
He made, of course, incessant reference to the various videos, and even played a carefully selected portion of the most prejudicial of the bystander video, because of course the prosecution must drive the jury to deliver a verdict based on the emotions driven by that video, and not by the totality of the circumstances and perfectly reasonable alternative explanations for Floyd’s death other than Chauvin’s knee.
To counter the likely defense argument that Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd’s neck because Floyd continued trying to squirm away from the officers, Blackwell proposed instead that this movement by Floyd was a reflex as his death approached, and occurred only because of Chauvin’s use of force, not the reverse.
-----
Blackwell also told the jury that he would present experts to prove that there were no circumstances under which MPD restraining policy allowed for a knee on the neck of a suspect. In fact, having personally reviewed the MPD use-of-force policy in effect at the time of Floyd’s death, not only did the text of that document explicitly allow for knee-on-neck restraint under appropriate circumstances, MPD training materials included photographs demonstrating knee-on-neck as an approved restraint technique.
To counter the utter lack of any physiological indication of injury to Floyd’s neck, Blackwell instead cited as proof of the pressure purportedly applied by Chauvin the road rash on Floyd’s bare shoulder and the bloody injury to Floyd’s nose. In fact, the road rash to Floyd’s shoulder would have occurred as a result of Floyd squirming while being held on the street, and his nose injury demonstrably occurred when Floyd was resisting being placed in the squad car (his blood was found on the plexiglass divider in the squad car at nose height).
To counter allegations that it was Floyd’s physiology—serious hypertensive and cardiac disease—that killed him, rather than Chauvin’s knee, Blackwell threw out a variety of very specific cardiac incidents and claimed none of those occurred. Indeed, Floyd had suffered from those conditions for years and hadn’t died yet.
Absent was any attempt to explain away the likely defense argument that it was the combination of that hypertension, cardiac disease along with the decision to forcibly fight four officers for 10 minutes and ingest an overdose of fentanyl that overwhelmed Floyd’s ability to survive, not merely the comorbidities alone.
legalinsurrection.com
The state’s opening consisted largely of the kind of hyperbole, emotive pleading, and half-truths that we’ve grown to expect from politically motivated prosecutions, and relatively little focus on the facts required to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in order to secure a just conviction.
For example, Blackwell quoted extensively from the Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) policy manual, but only quoting the “soft” portions of the manual that refer to treating suspects with respect and not using excessive force.
Blackwell somehow neglected to mention the portions of the MPD policy manual that explicitly permit the use of neck restraints, including knee to neck, when dealing with resistant and non-compliant suspects, as well as the portions calling for full-body restraint of suspects believed to be undergoing potentially deadly excited delirium syndrome.
Similarly, Blackwell acknowledged that Floyd had drugs in his system, but only the opioid portion of the drug cocktail on which Floyd was intoxicated. He argued to the jury that Floyd’s opioid (fentanyl) toxicity could not have contributed to his death because opioids make people sleepy, and Floyd was clearly not sleepy (indeed, he forcibly resisted arrest, but Blackwell slides over that awkward reality).
Blackwell neglected, however, to mention that the reason Floyd and his vehicle and passengers were still on scene when the police arrived was because Floyd had passed out in the vehicle and his passengers were unable to rouse him despite their fear that police were about to arrive.
Blackwell also failed to note that Floyd wasn’t merely on fentanyl, the pills he had ingested were a combination of fentanyl and methamphetamine—and as the name suggests, methamphetamine is a powerful stimulant.
Blackwell made great hay out of the fact that the dispatcher who observed scattered portions of the Floyd arrest was purportedly so outraged by what she saw that she called Chauvin’s supervisor to intervene. So shocking was Chauvin’s conduct, he argued, that the dispatcher felt compelled to call the police on the police.
In fact, when that dispatcher testified and her call to the sergeant was played in court, she stated in that call that she had no clear idea if a use-of-force event was even occurring and giggled at the sergeant before hanging up. Hardly the conduct of someone who believed she was watching a police racist murder on a public street in real time. Also, such calls to sergeants were a routine practice when any potential use-of-force event was believed to possibly be taking place, and not something that would be done only in the most extreme case of excessive force.
Blackwell also engaged in the kind of “if the glove don’t fit, you must acquit” rhetoric most of us first encountered during the OJ trial. He repeatedly referred to the “9 minutes and 29 seconds” of Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s neck as “the most important time in this trial,” and of course completely ignored everything leading up to that point. This repetitive reference to the time Chauvin’s knee was on Floyd’s neck is also a constantly repeated refrain being shouted by Benjamin Crump and other leading protestors outside the court room.
Blackwell described the whole series of events as being based merely on Floyd passing a fake $20 bill, which is merely a misdemeanor, for which a ticket could have been given, and not something worthy of a man’s death. Ignored was Floyd’s subsequent forcible non-compliance with arrest for some 10 minutes, or his ingestion of a fatal dose of fentanyl/meth in an effort to prevent discovery of the illicit drugs.
Blackwell also spent a lot of time conflating “putting Floyd on the ground” with “putting Floyd in a life-threatening prone position.” The first is incontrovertibly true, but in fact Floyd was only ever transiently in an actual prone position, if ever, and usually only because he squirmed into that position himself.
He made, of course, incessant reference to the various videos, and even played a carefully selected portion of the most prejudicial of the bystander video, because of course the prosecution must drive the jury to deliver a verdict based on the emotions driven by that video, and not by the totality of the circumstances and perfectly reasonable alternative explanations for Floyd’s death other than Chauvin’s knee.
To counter the likely defense argument that Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd’s neck because Floyd continued trying to squirm away from the officers, Blackwell proposed instead that this movement by Floyd was a reflex as his death approached, and occurred only because of Chauvin’s use of force, not the reverse.
-----
Blackwell also told the jury that he would present experts to prove that there were no circumstances under which MPD restraining policy allowed for a knee on the neck of a suspect. In fact, having personally reviewed the MPD use-of-force policy in effect at the time of Floyd’s death, not only did the text of that document explicitly allow for knee-on-neck restraint under appropriate circumstances, MPD training materials included photographs demonstrating knee-on-neck as an approved restraint technique.
To counter the utter lack of any physiological indication of injury to Floyd’s neck, Blackwell instead cited as proof of the pressure purportedly applied by Chauvin the road rash on Floyd’s bare shoulder and the bloody injury to Floyd’s nose. In fact, the road rash to Floyd’s shoulder would have occurred as a result of Floyd squirming while being held on the street, and his nose injury demonstrably occurred when Floyd was resisting being placed in the squad car (his blood was found on the plexiglass divider in the squad car at nose height).
To counter allegations that it was Floyd’s physiology—serious hypertensive and cardiac disease—that killed him, rather than Chauvin’s knee, Blackwell threw out a variety of very specific cardiac incidents and claimed none of those occurred. Indeed, Floyd had suffered from those conditions for years and hadn’t died yet.
Absent was any attempt to explain away the likely defense argument that it was the combination of that hypertension, cardiac disease along with the decision to forcibly fight four officers for 10 minutes and ingest an overdose of fentanyl that overwhelmed Floyd’s ability to survive, not merely the comorbidities alone.
Chauvin Trial Day 1 Wrap-Up: Opening Arguments & Three State Witnesses
State Witnesses: 911 dispatcher, grocery worker witness, martial arts witness
legalinsurrection.com
Wild Bill Kelsoe
Diamond Member
- Jan 21, 2021
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death by negligence.K, and do you believe he's guilty of 2nd degree?Manslaughter, at the most. The 2nd degree murder charge is bogus.
3rd degree manslaughter, or whatever the lowest level of manslaughter is. That's it.
AKA: manslaughter. 2nd degree murder has the element of intent and malice aforethought.
miketx
Diamond Member
- Dec 25, 2015
- 121,555
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- Banned
- #109
First you say:
Then you say:
Please, just stop.
his actions showed a gross and severe lack of judgment and faulty training
Then you say:
I don't know about what police training involves so I can't comment on the actual hold that Chauvin was doing
Please, just stop.
Last edited:
2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
- 112,162
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Points on the alleged MMA guys testimony...
Of particular note, Williams affirmatively characterized Chauvin’s neck restraint as constituting a so-called “blood choke.” In fact, it could not possibly have been anything of the sort.
A carotid choke hold, which involves cutting off the blood supply to the brain, requires pressure to both of the neck’s carotid arteries.
Applying pressure to only one side of the neck, as Chauvin’s knee was doing, cannot block both arteries, and Floyd’s neck was not so positioned on the street that the ground would provide the necessary force to the opposite side of Floyd’s neck. Further, a “blood choke” results in the loss of consciousness within seconds and does not require nearly 10 minutes to achieve that physiological state.
In addition, Williams spent much time describing how small movements on the part of Chauvin were intentional “shimmies” intended to “tighten” the “blood choke” that Chauvin was demonstrably not applying. The notion that Chauvin’s body might have been moving slightly in order to maintain the neck restraint of the continually squirming and very large Floyd appears not to have occurred to Williams.
The court only got partially through Williams’ testimony today, and he’ll be back on the stand tomorrow. I expect the state has more direct for him, after which we’ll get to see what Nelson makes of this purported security and martial arts expert.
legalinsurrection.com
For the record, I have trained in Judo....I have experienced a "Blood Choke," in a sparring match and I can tell you you go out quickly.....fuzzing out almost immediately while still being able to breath.........
Of particular note, Williams affirmatively characterized Chauvin’s neck restraint as constituting a so-called “blood choke.” In fact, it could not possibly have been anything of the sort.
A carotid choke hold, which involves cutting off the blood supply to the brain, requires pressure to both of the neck’s carotid arteries.
Applying pressure to only one side of the neck, as Chauvin’s knee was doing, cannot block both arteries, and Floyd’s neck was not so positioned on the street that the ground would provide the necessary force to the opposite side of Floyd’s neck. Further, a “blood choke” results in the loss of consciousness within seconds and does not require nearly 10 minutes to achieve that physiological state.
In addition, Williams spent much time describing how small movements on the part of Chauvin were intentional “shimmies” intended to “tighten” the “blood choke” that Chauvin was demonstrably not applying. The notion that Chauvin’s body might have been moving slightly in order to maintain the neck restraint of the continually squirming and very large Floyd appears not to have occurred to Williams.
The court only got partially through Williams’ testimony today, and he’ll be back on the stand tomorrow. I expect the state has more direct for him, after which we’ll get to see what Nelson makes of this purported security and martial arts expert.
Chauvin Trial Day 1 Wrap-Up: Opening Arguments & Three State Witnesses
State Witnesses: 911 dispatcher, grocery worker witness, martial arts witness
legalinsurrection.com
For the record, I have trained in Judo....I have experienced a "Blood Choke," in a sparring match and I can tell you you go out quickly.....fuzzing out almost immediately while still being able to breath.........
2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
- 112,162
- 52,413
- 2,290
First you say:
his actions showed a gross and severe lack of judgment and faulty training
Then you say:
I don't know about what police training involves so I can't comment on the actual hold that Chauvin was doing
Please, just stop.
The Legal insurrection site is covering the Trial using their guy who covered the Zimmerman Trial.....he specifically addresses the police training and how the prosecution didn't tell the truth about it...
For example, Blackwell quoted extensively from the Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) policy manual, but only quoting the “soft” portions of the manual that refer to treating suspects with respect and not using excessive force.
Blackwell somehow neglected to mention the portions of the MPD policy manual that explicitly permit the use of neck restraints, including knee to neck, when dealing with resistant and non-compliant suspects, as well as the portions calling for full-body restraint of suspects believed to be undergoing potentially deadly excited delirium syndrome.
MarcATL
Diamond Member
- Aug 12, 2009
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- Thread starter
- #112
Why isn't the defense arguing that Chauvin followed his training?The pathologists who analyzed Mr. Floyd found fentanyl mixed with other mind-altering substances produced a most convincing likelihood that Mr. Floyd, sadly, was already dying when apprehended by police, and his uncooperative with police led them to thinking he intended to kill someone, including themselves, and the steps they took coincided with saving lives the perpetrator was aiming to take, in accordance with their training. Cops are required to stop threats to other human beings' lives. The rules apply equally to everyone, including the prodigy of slaves who were set free from their oppression 160 years ago. Mr. Floyd broke all the rules that day including a suicidal amount of highly dangerous drug cocktails. The foot on the throat possibly postponed death by fifteen minutes if it slowed the flow of toxins in his bloodstream to the brain. It is truly sad that Mr. Floyd guaranteed his death by the mixed up drugs he used his final day on this earth.
2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
- 112,162
- 52,413
- 2,290
Why isn't the defense arguing that Chauvin followed his training?The pathologists who analyzed Mr. Floyd found fentanyl mixed with other mind-altering substances produced a most convincing likelihood that Mr. Floyd, sadly, was already dying when apprehended by police, and his uncooperative with police led them to thinking he intended to kill someone, including themselves, and the steps they took coincided with saving lives the perpetrator was aiming to take, in accordance with their training. Cops are required to stop threats to other human beings' lives. The rules apply equally to everyone, including the prodigy of slaves who were set free from their oppression 160 years ago. Mr. Floyd broke all the rules that day including a suicidal amount of highly dangerous drug cocktails. The foot on the throat possibly postponed death by fifteen minutes if it slowed the flow of toxins in his bloodstream to the brain. It is truly sad that Mr. Floyd guaranteed his death by the mixed up drugs he used his final day on this earth.
They are dealing with the prosecution witnesses...they will call the MPD trainers on their time........they did address the prosecution failing to point out MPD policy...
For example, Blackwell quoted extensively from the Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) policy manual, but only quoting the “soft” portions of the manual that refer to treating suspects with respect and not using excessive force.
Blackwell somehow neglected to mention the portions of the MPD policy manual that explicitly permit the use of neck restraints, including knee to neck, when dealing with resistant and non-compliant suspects, as well as the portions calling for full-body restraint of suspects believed to be undergoing potentially deadly excited delirium syndrome.
WelfareQueen
Diamond Member
From watching the trial, I find out that the police actually called the police, on the police.
That doesn't bode well for Chauvin. Yet another nail in his coffin.
Why do we even need a trial? Can't we just take him out and lynch him?.
Oldestyle
Diamond Member
He was actually complaining about not being able to breath when he was standing up. Fentanyl killed George Floyd....to a violent felon, high on 2X the lethal dose of fentanyl...
Not for nothin', but if he'd taken twice the lethal dose, why wasn't he already dead?
He was dying.....had the police not arrived, he would have died anyway.
Hey, we're all gonna' die sometime.
In the video I've seen when they first cuffed him, when he was standing up, he didn't look to be in any sort of medical duress...
MarcATL
Diamond Member
- Aug 12, 2009
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- Thread starter
- #116
Spot on, and I'm willing to bet my membership on this site that all 12 jurors will see it this way as well.So, here's my take, for what its worth. Chauvin will go to prison. While I don't think Chauvin intentionally killed him, his actions showed a gross and severe lack of judgment and faulty training, and a general lack of concern for the well being of the person in his custody.
It doesn't matter that Floyd was high on fentanyl, or if he would have died anyway, because we don't know that, we don't know what would have happened.
At the start of the video, floyd looked to be ok, he was distraught for sure, and he was obviously concerned for his life. He said several times he didn't want to get shot. He was worried.
Floyd was not resisting, he was panicking. He said many times that he was claustrophobic and had anxiety. He was fearful of the enclosed space in the back of the car. Has the officers not tried to force him into the back of the car, he probably would have been fine just standing there or sitting on the curb. He was in cuffs and was only struggling because the officers were doing something that was creating more panic in him. I don't understand why it was necessary to put Floyd in the car. He would have been just fine outside the car, in cuffs.
I know officers hear excuses all the time, but you have to make a judgment call, and Floyd was pleading with them over and over, and again, they should have taken his claims of claustrophobia to heart and considered that maybe his struggling was a panic reaction and not resisting.
Once they got Floyd on the ground, for 4 minutes he was pleading that he couldn't breath. Again, the officers should have put 2 and 2 together and realized that Floyd was in a panic attack at this point and again, very fearful of being in a position where he couldn't breathe. Floyd was likely hyperventilating trying to catch his breath. Also, Floyd mentioned several times that he just got over covid.
One of the officers mentioned at least twice that they should roll him on his side. Chauvin declined.
After about 4 minutes of 2 men kneeling on Floyd, because there was 2. Chauvin on his neck and the other guy looked like he was kneeling in the small of floyds back. This is the point where they should have taken better care of the condition of Floyd. After 4 minutes, Floyd became unresponsive. He was pretty much limp, and for the next 5 minutes, the officers continued to kneel on Floyd's limp body. One officer mentions that he thought Floyd was passing out. The officers should have been paying more attention and once they realized that Floyd was no longer responsive, they should have gotten off of him and checked his pulse. Even bystanders were telling them they should check his pulse.
Again, I don't think it was their intent to kill him, but their response was not appropriate. Again, in my opinion, Chauvin does time.
2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
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Spot on, and I'm willing to bet my membership on this site that all 12 jurors will see it this way as well.So, here's my take, for what its worth. Chauvin will go to prison. While I don't think Chauvin intentionally killed him, his actions showed a gross and severe lack of judgment and faulty training, and a general lack of concern for the well being of the person in his custody.
It doesn't matter that Floyd was high on fentanyl, or if he would have died anyway, because we don't know that, we don't know what would have happened.
At the start of the video, floyd looked to be ok, he was distraught for sure, and he was obviously concerned for his life. He said several times he didn't want to get shot. He was worried.
Floyd was not resisting, he was panicking. He said many times that he was claustrophobic and had anxiety. He was fearful of the enclosed space in the back of the car. Has the officers not tried to force him into the back of the car, he probably would have been fine just standing there or sitting on the curb. He was in cuffs and was only struggling because the officers were doing something that was creating more panic in him. I don't understand why it was necessary to put Floyd in the car. He would have been just fine outside the car, in cuffs.
I know officers hear excuses all the time, but you have to make a judgment call, and Floyd was pleading with them over and over, and again, they should have taken his claims of claustrophobia to heart and considered that maybe his struggling was a panic reaction and not resisting.
Once they got Floyd on the ground, for 4 minutes he was pleading that he couldn't breath. Again, the officers should have put 2 and 2 together and realized that Floyd was in a panic attack at this point and again, very fearful of being in a position where he couldn't breathe. Floyd was likely hyperventilating trying to catch his breath. Also, Floyd mentioned several times that he just got over covid.
One of the officers mentioned at least twice that they should roll him on his side. Chauvin declined.
After about 4 minutes of 2 men kneeling on Floyd, because there was 2. Chauvin on his neck and the other guy looked like he was kneeling in the small of floyds back. This is the point where they should have taken better care of the condition of Floyd. After 4 minutes, Floyd became unresponsive. He was pretty much limp, and for the next 5 minutes, the officers continued to kneel on Floyd's limp body. One officer mentions that he thought Floyd was passing out. The officers should have been paying more attention and once they realized that Floyd was no longer responsive, they should have gotten off of him and checked his pulse. Even bystanders were telling them they should check his pulse.
Again, I don't think it was their intent to kill him, but their response was not appropriate. Again, in my opinion, Chauvin does time.
It's not spot on in any way shape or form......as we already see from the prosecution and the crap they are using to push their case...
WelfareQueen
Diamond Member
That's not law and order, that's the white supremacist way.Why do we even need a trial? Can't we just take him out and lynch him?.
I am not aware of Joe Biden lynching anyone, but the Dim Party invented lynching and the Klan.
. Maybe your team can get this cop lynched.
beautress
Always Faithful
That lawyer does not have a degree in pharmacology, of that I am certain! I hope someone who does gives a hearty surrebuttal in knowledgable pharmacilutical and a Mozart of chemical botany that is more than new as contemporary new finds of substances interacting synergistically to kill a large man the size of Mr. Floyd. His brain malfunctioned in the self-survival medulla oblongata.The best coverage of the trial, and great analysis....
The state’s opening consisted largely of the kind of hyperbole, emotive pleading, and half-truths that we’ve grown to expect from politically motivated prosecutions, and relatively little focus on the facts required to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in order to secure a just conviction.
For example, Blackwell quoted extensively from the Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) policy manual, but only quoting the “soft” portions of the manual that refer to treating suspects with respect and not using excessive force.
Blackwell somehow neglected to mention the portions of the MPD policy manual that explicitly permit the use of neck restraints, including knee to neck, when dealing with resistant and non-compliant suspects, as well as the portions calling for full-body restraint of suspects believed to be undergoing potentially deadly excited delirium syndrome.
Similarly, Blackwell acknowledged that Floyd had drugs in his system, but only the opioid portion of the drug cocktail on which Floyd was intoxicated. He argued to the jury that Floyd’s opioid (fentanyl) toxicity could not have contributed to his death because opioids make people sleepy, and Floyd was clearly not sleepy (indeed, he forcibly resisted arrest, but Blackwell slides over that awkward reality).
Blackwell neglected, however, to mention that the reason Floyd and his vehicle and passengers were still on scene when the police arrived was because Floyd had passed out in the vehicle and his passengers were unable to rouse him despite their fear that police were about to arrive.
Blackwell also failed to note that Floyd wasn’t merely on fentanyl, the pills he had ingested were a combination of fentanyl and methamphetamine—and as the name suggests, methamphetamine is a powerful stimulant.
Blackwell made great hay out of the fact that the dispatcher who observed scattered portions of the Floyd arrest was purportedly so outraged by what she saw that she called Chauvin’s supervisor to intervene. So shocking was Chauvin’s conduct, he argued, that the dispatcher felt compelled to call the police on the police.
In fact, when that dispatcher testified and her call to the sergeant was played in court, she stated in that call that she had no clear idea if a use-of-force event was even occurring and giggled at the sergeant before hanging up. Hardly the conduct of someone who believed she was watching a police racist murder on a public street in real time. Also, such calls to sergeants were a routine practice when any potential use-of-force event was believed to possibly be taking place, and not something that would be done only in the most extreme case of excessive force.
Blackwell also engaged in the kind of “if the glove don’t fit, you must acquit” rhetoric most of us first encountered during the OJ trial. He repeatedly referred to the “9 minutes and 29 seconds” of Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s neck as “the most important time in this trial,” and of course completely ignored everything leading up to that point. This repetitive reference to the time Chauvin’s knee was on Floyd’s neck is also a constantly repeated refrain being shouted by Benjamin Crump and other leading protestors outside the court room.
Blackwell described the whole series of events as being based merely on Floyd passing a fake $20 bill, which is merely a misdemeanor, for which a ticket could have been given, and not something worthy of a man’s death. Ignored was Floyd’s subsequent forcible non-compliance with arrest for some 10 minutes, or his ingestion of a fatal dose of fentanyl/meth in an effort to prevent discovery of the illicit drugs.
Blackwell also spent a lot of time conflating “putting Floyd on the ground” with “putting Floyd in a life-threatening prone position.” The first is incontrovertibly true, but in fact Floyd was only ever transiently in an actual prone position, if ever, and usually only because he squirmed into that position himself.
He made, of course, incessant reference to the various videos, and even played a carefully selected portion of the most prejudicial of the bystander video, because of course the prosecution must drive the jury to deliver a verdict based on the emotions driven by that video, and not by the totality of the circumstances and perfectly reasonable alternative explanations for Floyd’s death other than Chauvin’s knee.
To counter the likely defense argument that Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd’s neck because Floyd continued trying to squirm away from the officers, Blackwell proposed instead that this movement by Floyd was a reflex as his death approached, and occurred only because of Chauvin’s use of force, not the reverse.
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Blackwell also told the jury that he would present experts to prove that there were no circumstances under which MPD restraining policy allowed for a knee on the neck of a suspect. In fact, having personally reviewed the MPD use-of-force policy in effect at the time of Floyd’s death, not only did the text of that document explicitly allow for knee-on-neck restraint under appropriate circumstances, MPD training materials included photographs demonstrating knee-on-neck as an approved restraint technique.
To counter the utter lack of any physiological indication of injury to Floyd’s neck, Blackwell instead cited as proof of the pressure purportedly applied by Chauvin the road rash on Floyd’s bare shoulder and the bloody injury to Floyd’s nose. In fact, the road rash to Floyd’s shoulder would have occurred as a result of Floyd squirming while being held on the street, and his nose injury demonstrably occurred when Floyd was resisting being placed in the squad car (his blood was found on the plexiglass divider in the squad car at nose height).
To counter allegations that it was Floyd’s physiology—serious hypertensive and cardiac disease—that killed him, rather than Chauvin’s knee, Blackwell threw out a variety of very specific cardiac incidents and claimed none of those occurred. Indeed, Floyd had suffered from those conditions for years and hadn’t died yet.
Absent was any attempt to explain away the likely defense argument that it was the combination of that hypertension, cardiac disease along with the decision to forcibly fight four officers for 10 minutes and ingest an overdose of fentanyl that overwhelmed Floyd’s ability to survive, not merely the comorbidities alone.
Chauvin Trial Day 1 Wrap-Up: Opening Arguments & Three State Witnesses
State Witnesses: 911 dispatcher, grocery worker witness, martial arts witness
Floyd basically committed suicide, and there wasn't a thing those cops could do to a man who flat out did himself in. He likely knew he was playing Russian Roulette with chemicals he knew he shouldn't use.
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