The Dirty Little Truth About the Minimum Wage

[yiostheoy]

Looking back at FDR, he was a former Governor of NYS and a very rich man of inherited Dutch-American wealth. He learned to care about the poor from his teacher at boarding school, Endicott Peabody.

There had been numerous business cycle busts before in America. The one in 1929 however was the deepest so far and was fueled by speculation and gambling by Wall Street with skyrocketing P/E's (price earnings ratios of stocks on the exchange), very similar to the next one in 2008 which was fueled by speculation and gambling by Wall Street with real estate junk mortgages.

FDR was elected on the proposition of repealing prohibition during the Roaring 20's when disregard for the Noble Experiment of criminalization of alcohol was the rave.

FDR then inherited the crash of 1929 from the post WW1 boom of his predecessor GOP presidents Harding, Coolidge, and Hoover who believed you should no nothing to interfere in business.

The only thing that FDR could come up with was his infrastructure improvement policies to inject some money into the economy. He also came up with OASDI for the old and disabled.

The most modern commentary on the crash of 1929 is that Adolf Hitler deserves the credit for the recovery from it, by his mobilization of Nazi Germany for war, forcing the rest of the world to do the same to stop his land grabbing in Eastern and Western Europe. Japan had already begun land grabbing for natural resources in Asia, but nobody was opposing them there until they attacked and bombed Pearl Harbor U.S. Naval Base.

Thus the only answer to a huge crash is a huge war.

Putin seems to be working on that now, in the same style as Adolf did before.

So don't worry boyz and girlies -- help is on the way.

 

[Boss]

The minimum wage peaked in 1968. You lose.

Huih???

 

[dblack]

The minimum wage peaked in 1968. You lose.

Huih???

Logic won't work. I really do think we should try my idea about adding a zero to all the dollars. I'm betting they'd fall for it.

 

[Boss]

Very informative and nicely done.

Your word for the day is AFFECTED.

Note EFFECTED.

Otherwise nice essay.

Duly noted and edited. I knew this, I just often make this mistake for some reason. Thanks.

 

[yiostheoy]

Then go somewhere and giggle like a school girl

I take it that you are a true John Bircher dyed in the wool. Nice to know. Ignore list for you then.

I don't need to waste time on idiots.

 

[Dekster]

Most of you, like myself, have learned about the Great Depression through the prism of public education. We were taught that FDR came into office, implemented his New Deal policies and saved the day... Right? Or, at least that's the way it is portrayed. The actual reality is quite different. As we get older and go to college, we are able to read different accounts of what happened and we learn that many of his policies actually prolonged the Great Depression.

I know you done heard that on Hate Radio, Cleetus.

The problem is, no professional or accredited Historian subscribes to that view.

But I'm sure you learned that in the college you went to right after they told you about the Talking Snake.

William Wascher, a Federal Reserve Board economist, agrees with the view that minimum wage is harmful to the poor. I am a progressive who opposes minimum wage increases at this time as well. That is part of my reason to the extent that it be a national wage increase. It would also disproportionately harm lower income communities. If Seattle wants a $15 wage then let them have it, but don't make some little town raise it to $15 because Seattle can afford it. The larger part for me though is that increased consumption further degrades the environment and adds nothing to society other than pollution and garbage.

That's even worse actually. Rich cities are using high minimum wage to run the poor out of town and gentrify. And the sick irony is that after they do that they'll use the artificial increase in average wage (due to the exodus of the working poor) as proof of their success!

It isn't worse just because they can spin their numbers. It isn't a marketing issue. It is an issue of local money flow and local multiplier effects. Increase the MW and you will see money flow slow and increased outflows of money from those communities to china, Wall Street or wherever.

 

[Dekster]

Then go somewhere and giggle like a school girl

I take it that you are a true John Bircher dyed in the wool. Nice to know. Ignore list for you then.

I don't need to waste time on idiots.

So far all you have done in this thread is masturbate. Good riddance.

 

[yiostheoy]

Very informative and nicely done.

Your word for the day is AFFECTED.

Note EFFECTED.

Otherwise nice essay.

Duly noted and edited. I knew this, I just often make this mistake for some reason. Thanks.

Your essay is pretty good.

It shares a common view with that of many other commentators.

I did not know about how the black community handled the crash of 1929 so thank you, I learned about that.

My personal view is that FDR did everything he could.

I also believe it was too little too late.

Today we are benefitted by OASDI because it is the only retirement benefit that 90% of Americans have.

Capitalist business has been able to erode all other retirement programs. So FDR was right.

Adolf Hitler does not get credit for any of his accomplishments because you get branded as anti-Semitic if you try to give Adolf any credit.

However Adolf had the German Autobahn system built, he founded Volkswagen, he loosened the grip of Jewish control over German infrastructure (albeit in a ruthless way), and he ended the crash of 1929 (albeit in a bloody manner).

Good or bad, Adolf was a major influence on our old parents and grandparents -- he mostly benefitted them -- whereas the Jews Of Europe paid the highest price for it, as did the Russians as well.

So Adolf Hitler is the answer to your original question.

And everyone should just give FDR a break and let him sleep in peace.

 

[owebo]

There's nothing dirty about it! It is wonderful as it makes sure big corporate can't pay their workers like they do in Vietnam or Africa.

What's wrong with middle class wages?

 

[owebo]

Basket weaving?

someday, little timmy, you'll contribute something to a thread.

Today isn't that day. Tomorrow isn't looking promising.

Okay, back to the subject of the OP, which is typical right wing "Greed is Good" and the last thing you want is people voting for wealth redistribution.

The reality is, FDR saved the economy without plunging the country into fascism or authoritarianism. and when WWII was over, we were in a position where our well compensated, unionized middle class created the greatest standard of living the world had ever seen up to that point.

Until Republicans came along and fucked it up.

Do let us know when you do, won't you?

 

[Boss]

Capitalist business has been able to erode all other retirement programs. So FDR was right.

I disagree. Capitalist businesses are the reason we are able to establish retirement plans or even pay into a Social Security system.

My personal view is that FDR did everything he could.

He also did a lot of things he "couldn't" ...at least not by the Constitution. Many of the things he did prolonged the depression and had to later be yanked. But the OP was specifically discussing the Minimum Wage and how it was initially a program intended to help give white men an advantage in finding jobs. By raising the standard of wages he also raised the standard of the persons those wages applied to. This left minorities without jobs at an alarming rate. It helped white men at the expense of blacks and minorities, but it has been upheld as some great and wonderful New Deal program that we're still being misled by today.

 

[Markle]

The actual reality is quite different. As we get older and go to college, we are able to read different accounts of what happened and we learn that many of his policies actually prolonged the Great Depression.

The above, from the same right wingers who claim that college education is run by leftist professors that pollute the mind of naive conservative students? LOL

There is no claim about it, it is fact that colleges are run by far left Progressives and professors. Not at issue.

 

[Markle]

Basket weaving?

someday, little timmy, you'll contribute something to a thread.

Today isn't that day. Tomorrow isn't looking promising.

Okay, back to the subject of the OP, which is typical right wing "Greed is Good" and the last thing you want is people voting for wealth redistribution.

The reality is, FDR saved the economy without plunging the country into fascism or authoritarianism. and when WWII was over, we were in a position where our well compensated, unionized middle class created the greatest standard of living the world had ever seen up to that point.

Until Republicans came along and fucked it up.

Gluttony, greed, sloth, envy, wrath, pride, and lust.

It is unfortunate that we must unleash greed in order to motivate capitalist markets in a capitalist society.

As you know, there is such a thing as good greed and bad greed.

 

[Markle]

The minimum wage peaked in 1968. You lose.

The Federal minimum wage should be eliminated. Should individual states or locals wish to have one, that would be there business.

 

[JoeB131]

William Wascher, a Federal Reserve Board economist, agrees with the view that minimum wage is harmful to the poor. I am a progressive who opposes minimum wage increases at this time as well. That is part of my reason to the extent that it be a national wage increase. It would also disproportionately harm lower income communities. If Seattle wants a $15 wage then let them have it, but don't make some little town raise it to $15 because Seattle can afford it. The larger part for me though is that increased consumption further degrades the environment and adds nothing to society other than pollution and garbage.

Uh, guy... we are pretty good at disposing of and recylcing trash.

The thing about a minimum wage is that it doesn't help the poor. The poor go right around, and apply for Food Stamps, Section 8 and MedicAid. So they are consuming just as much, they just don't equate work with self-reliance.

Now, here's the real problem. Used to be, when economies were national and not global, and most activities were labor intensive, you could have near full employment, and a single breadwinner could make the minimum wage and still support a family. now, not so much. If you work, it's because you have specialized skills.

The problem with the not-really minimum wage society is that it drives down skilled labor wages as well. So you have adjunct professors on food stamps or airline pilots selling their blood plasma.

 

[JoeB131]

Joey, the Department of Labor didn't start tracking quarterly unemployment until the mid 30s. But the United States Census Bureau conducted a census every 10 years, which is what Shlaes references.

So what you admit then is that you cited a source that did not use the same methodology that was notoriously bad at collecting data. (Even today, the Census generally sucks at counting poor people.)

According to the census in 1930, black unemployment was lower than white unemployment.

The Census Bureau is not the Department of Labor or the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Within a few years, following passage of the MW, black unemployment was DOUBLE that of whites. This had ZERO to do with manufacturing vs. agriculture.

Again, two different bureaus using different methodologies come up with different numbers at different times. Obviously they never taught you about data gathering at Talking Snake U.

This was totally the result of the MW law passed by your racist hero FDR to help white Americans with job opportunities at the expense of blacks and minorities.

It was a racist policy then and it's still a racist policy today... and YOU support it emphatically because you're a little closet racist.

Right. YOu see, this is your new thing, then. Just claim everything is racist because that's what you think LIberals do when they point out your obvious racism.

Hey, I understand black unemployment was down to ZERO when they were slaves and you didn't have to pay them... I don't think anyone considered that a good thing.

 

[JoeB131]

I disagree. Capitalist businesses are the reason we are able to establish retirement plans or even pay into a Social Security system.

You mean new ways for the rich to cheat us even after we stop working? Which is why you see so many 70-somethings as greeters at WalMart.

He also did a lot of things he "couldn't" ...at least not by the Constitution. Many of the things he did prolonged the depression and had to later be yanked. But the OP was specifically discussing the Minimum Wage and how it was initially a program intended to help give white men an advantage in finding jobs. By raising the standard of wages he also raised the standard of the persons those wages applied to. This left minorities without jobs at an alarming rate. It helped white men at the expense of blacks and minorities, but it has been upheld as some great and wonderful New Deal program that we're still being misled by today.

Yup, all those Darkies complaining about the Minimum wage would be singing happily getting paid SUB-minimum wage.

Okay, one more point about Boss Hogg and his abuse of Statistics

He compares CENSUS Data from 1930 to the actual unemployment data collected by the Bureau of Labor Statistics in the Mid-1930's... Here's the problem with THOSE numbers, besides the fact of different methodologies and different sectors of the economy.

The Stock Market Crash happened in 1929. The Census Bureau figures that Amity "I'm a Right Wing Hack" Schales quotes is from 1930.

Census data is usually collected in the beginning of a year. for better or worse, the true impact of the Stock market Crash was not felt until 1932 or so, by which time people realized this wasn't just another "Depression". It was a Depression so bad we stopped calling them Depressions. Unemployment finally peaked at 23% in 1935, and then by 1937, had dropped to 14%. By 1942, it was down to 10%. and it wouldn't se double digits again until Ronnie Ray-gun decided that he needed unemployment to fight inflation.

 

[Boss]

Joey, the Department of Labor didn't start tracking quarterly unemployment until the mid 30s. But the United States Census Bureau conducted a census every 10 years, which is what Shlaes references.

So what you admit then is that you cited a source that did not use the same methodology that was notoriously bad at collecting data. (Even today, the Census generally sucks at counting poor people.)

According to the census in 1930, black unemployment was lower than white unemployment.

The Census Bureau is not the Department of Labor or the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Within a few years, following passage of the MW, black unemployment was DOUBLE that of whites. This had ZERO to do with manufacturing vs. agriculture.

Again, two different bureaus using different methodologies come up with different numbers at different times. Obviously they never taught you about data gathering at Talking Snake U.

This was totally the result of the MW law passed by your racist hero FDR to help white Americans with job opportunities at the expense of blacks and minorities.

It was a racist policy then and it's still a racist policy today... and YOU support it emphatically because you're a little closet racist.

Right. YOu see, this is your new thing, then. Just claim everything is racist because that's what you think LIberals do when they point out your obvious racism.

Hey, I understand black unemployment was down to ZERO when they were slaves and you didn't have to pay them... I don't think anyone considered that a good thing.

Shut up retard. The newly-formed Department of Labor didn't just up and start compiling empirical statistics the day it was born. Stop arguing a point you cannot refute. You sound like a fucking idiot.

The data available shows that FDR's minimum wage caused a dramatic increase in unemployment for blacks and minorities. (It's not a statistical glitch) When it came to earning wages, blacks were able to hold their own because they were willing to work for less than whites. In times of economic downturn, they actually did better at finding employment. Implementing a mandatory MW eliminated that advantage. That was precisely it's intent.

 

[JoeB131]

Shut up retard. The newly-formed Department of Labor didn't just up and start compiling empirical statistics the day it was born. Stop arguing a point you cannot refute. You sound like a fucking idiot.

Go back and read the chart I posted in post #37. Then have someone who understands math explain it to you.

The data available shows that FDR's minimum wage caused a dramatic increase in unemployment for blacks and minorities. (It's not a statistical glitch)

The data only SHOWS that if you ignore everything else going on at the time- you know, like the worst economic downturn in human history. and the mechanization of agriculture replacing the need for human labor.

Or do you really think that paying someone pennies an hour for labor was really doing them any kind of favors?

 

[IsaacNewton]

I'm curious, if there is no minimum wage, what would the 'market' minimum wage be? Is there anyone actually arguing for doing away with it entirely?

I think raising it from $7.25/hr to $15/hr is too much too quick. And it should be more a local increase based on local economy. The cost of living in some cities is double what it is in others and small businesses will have a much deeper impact from any raise in minimum wage than larger companies. The national minimum wage should go to maybe $11/hr for 3 years, then raised $2/hr every 2 years after up to $15/hr. And small businesses with less than 25 employees should be able to pay a lower national minimum than larger companies. Doubling the minimum in one shot is too much. It is well over due though.

Arguments against a minimum wage are callous. Beef, wood, gasoline, coffee, orange juice, rubber, steel, all these commodities continually go up in price, which is absorbed by all businesses and the economy WITH LITTLE BITCHING. To argue human beings are the ones that should be treated like the throw away commodity so business can bolster it's profit margin is vile.

For all you people who don't know the history of unions and why they are relevant today figure it out. They are the only gathered power that working people have ever had.