The Electoral College flaunting the will of the people never ends well!

[Dr Grump]

Trump won 2/3rds of the States, he will be president, deal with it. The electors don't have the constitutional authority not to vote the way their States direct.

FindLaw's United States Supreme Court case and opinions.

And yet there are several examples of electors going against the peoples' wishes.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The flaunting of the will of the people doesn't end well. The flaunting of California is just amusing as all hell.

 

[Rustic]

We are hearing a lot of smoke from the Right Wing about the sanctity of the Electoral College, and how the Founders truly understood that the Will of the People could not be trusted.

Okay, so let's look at that. Let's look at the three times that someone became President because they won the electoral College while losing the Popular Vote.

1876- Rutherford B. Hayes. Won the electoral college because a commission awarded several states to him AFTER he promised to withdraw the remaining troops from the South and ended Reconstruction. As a result, the South was able to roll back the rights of African Americans with impunity and gave us 100 years of Jim Crow. Clearly one of the worst Presidents we've ever had.

1888 - Benjamin Harrison- Made good on a promise to pay lifetime benefits to Civil War Veterans, giving America its first "Billion Dollar Budget". Gave us a recession in 1890 that lead to the Panic of 1893 right before he left office,

2000 - George W. Bush - Ignored warnings of an imminent terror attack,giving us the worst terror incident in history. Went to war on a lie, killing 5000 Americans and a million Iraqis. Fumbled the response to a major hurricane, rendering a major city uninhabitable. And, oh, yes, gave us the worst recession in 80 years by letting his Wall Street Cronies run amok. easily the worst president ever.

So don't worry, guys. This time will be different! I'm sure the Game Show Host who kept a copy of Hitler's speeches next to his bed will do just fine. No, really.

 

[JoeB131]

Ah, Justice Scalia didn't retire...he died suddenly. In case you hadn't noticed there are some elderly liberal Justices on the Court right now who could die just as suddenly.

Possibly. But I'm sure they are going to take really good care of themselves while waiting for Trumpenfuhrer to get impeached.

If Al Gore became President we might have had ISIS ten years earlier. Odds are we never would have gotten Osama bin Laden because that came about because of intel gathered with water boarding which Gore might not have allowed. If Gore were President you think the housing bubble collapse wouldn't have happened? Nothing like wearing partisan "blinders" Joey!

Okay, couple of things here.

1) ISIS Only happened because Bush destabilized Iraq over his War over a Lie.

2) Waterboarding did not get us Bin Laden. IN fact, the guys we waterboarded told interogators that the "Courier" was no one of any importance.

Senate report: Waterboarding didn't lead to Osama bin Laden

A U.S. Senate investigation concludes waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods provided no key evidence in the hunt for Osama bin Laden, according to congressional aides and outside experts familiar with a still-secret, 6,200-page report. The finding could deepen the worst rift in years between lawmakers and the CIA.

The most high-profile detainee linked to the bin Laden investigation was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the accused Sept. 11 mastermind who was waterboarded 183 times. Mohammed, intelligence officials have noted, confirmed after his 2003 capture that he knew an important al-Qaeda courier with the nom de guerre Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti.

The Senate report concludes such information wasn't critical, according to the aides. Mohammed only discussed al-Kuwaiti months after being waterboarded, while he was under standard interrogation, they said. And Mohammed neither acknowledged al-Kuwaiti's significance nor provided interrogators with the courier's real name.


So, um, wrong again.

 

[owebo]

Ah, Justice Scalia didn't retire...he died suddenly. In case you hadn't noticed there are some elderly liberal Justices on the Court right now who could die just as suddenly.

Possibly. But I'm sure they are going to take really good care of themselves while waiting for Trumpenfuhrer to get impeached.

If Al Gore became President we might have had ISIS ten years earlier. Odds are we never would have gotten Osama bin Laden because that came about because of intel gathered with water boarding which Gore might not have allowed. If Gore were President you think the housing bubble collapse wouldn't have happened? Nothing like wearing partisan "blinders" Joey!

Okay, couple of things here.

1) ISIS Only happened because Bush destabilized Iraq over his War over a Lie.

2) Waterboarding did not get us Bin Laden. IN fact, the guys we waterboarded told interogators that the "Courier" was no one of any importance.

Senate report: Waterboarding didn't lead to Osama bin Laden

A U.S. Senate investigation concludes waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods provided no key evidence in the hunt for Osama bin Laden, according to congressional aides and outside experts familiar with a still-secret, 6,200-page report. The finding could deepen the worst rift in years between lawmakers and the CIA.

The most high-profile detainee linked to the bin Laden investigation was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the accused Sept. 11 mastermind who was waterboarded 183 times. Mohammed, intelligence officials have noted, confirmed after his 2003 capture that he knew an important al-Qaeda courier with the nom de guerre Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti.

The Senate report concludes such information wasn't critical, according to the aides. Mohammed only discussed al-Kuwaiti months after being waterboarded, while he was under standard interrogation, they said. And Mohammed neither acknowledged al-Kuwaiti's significance nor provided interrogators with the courier's real name.


So, um, wrong again.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's not like the Electoral College votes are divided equally between our 57 states, CA already has the most votes to account for all the illegals and non-living voters

 

[JoeB131]

There was no good choice in this election. In my opinion, Hillary is more of a neo-con than Trump, but I guess we'll see. It was simply a matter of picking which poison you'd rather have.

You see, there was a big difference. Hillary would have been balanced by a Republican Congress that would have put a check on anything really stupid that she might want to do.

Trump is going to have a cowardly republican congress that will live in terror that his Alt-Right Brownshirts are going to Primary them in 2018 if they actually take a stand against something crazy or stupid.

You see, the real story of 2016 is how a once great political party was reduced to a quivering mound of jelly by a racist game show host.

 

[owebo]

There was no good choice in this election. In my opinion, Hillary is more of a neo-con than Trump, but I guess we'll see. It was simply a matter of picking which poison you'd rather have.

You see, there was a big difference. Hillary would have been balanced by a Republican Congress that would have put a check on anything really stupid that she might want to do.

Trump is going to have a cowardly republican congress that will live in terror that his Alt-Right Brownshirts are going to Primary them in 2018 if they actually take a stand against something crazy or stupid.

You see, the real story of 2016 is how a once great political party was reduced to a quivering mound of jelly by a racist game show host.

We are coming for you.....

 

[JoeB131]

And if the results were reversed you nd your ilk would have no problem with the EC. Keeping copies of Hitler's speeches???? No wonder left wingers are having a melt down making lying statements like that.

I've always had a problem with the EC. If you look up everything I've ever said about it, I've never had anything good to say about it.

As for Hitler's speeches, this is something his EX WIFE said.

Donald Trump's ex-wife once said Trump kept a book of Hitler's speeches by his bed

According to a 1990 Vanity Fair interview, Ivana Trump once told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that her husband, real-estate mogul Donald Trump, now a leading Republican presidential candidate, kept a book of Hitler's speeches near his bed.

"Last April, perhaps in a surge of Czech nationalism, Ivana Trump told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that from time to time her husband reads a book of Hitler's collected speeches, My New Order, which he keeps in a cabinet by his bed ... Hitler's speeches, from his earliest days up through the Phony War of 1939, reveal his extraordinary ability as a master propagandist," Marie Brenner wrote.

 

[JoeB131]

Trump won 2/3rds of the States, he will be president, deal with it. The electors don't have the constitutional authority not to vote the way their States direct.

actually,t hey do, they just won't.

Once again, the reception hall has been rented and the band has been hired, you go through with the bad wedding...

 

[owebo]

And if the results were reversed you nd your ilk would have no problem with the EC. Keeping copies of Hitler's speeches???? No wonder left wingers are having a melt down making lying statements like that.

I've always had a problem with the EC. If you look up everything I've ever said about it, I've never had anything good to say about it.

As for Hitler's speeches, this is something his EX WIFE said.

Donald Trump's ex-wife once said Trump kept a book of Hitler's speeches by his bed

According to a 1990 Vanity Fair interview, Ivana Trump once told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that her husband, real-estate mogul Donald Trump, now a leading Republican presidential candidate, kept a book of Hitler's speeches near his bed.

"Last April, perhaps in a surge of Czech nationalism, Ivana Trump told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that from time to time her husband reads a book of Hitler's collected speeches, My New Order, which he keeps in a cabinet by his bed ... Hitler's speeches, from his earliest days up through the Phony War of 1939, reveal his extraordinary ability as a master propagandist," Marie Brenner wrote.

 

[Rustic]

Ah, Justice Scalia didn't retire...he died suddenly. In case you hadn't noticed there are some elderly liberal Justices on the Court right now who could die just as suddenly.

Possibly. But I'm sure they are going to take really good care of themselves while waiting for Trumpenfuhrer to get impeached.

If Al Gore became President we might have had ISIS ten years earlier. Odds are we never would have gotten Osama bin Laden because that came about because of intel gathered with water boarding which Gore might not have allowed. If Gore were President you think the housing bubble collapse wouldn't have happened? Nothing like wearing partisan "blinders" Joey!

Okay, couple of things here.

1) ISIS Only happened because Bush destabilized Iraq over his War over a Lie.

2) Waterboarding did not get us Bin Laden. IN fact, the guys we waterboarded told interogators that the "Courier" was no one of any importance.

Senate report: Waterboarding didn't lead to Osama bin Laden

A U.S. Senate investigation concludes waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods provided no key evidence in the hunt for Osama bin Laden, according to congressional aides and outside experts familiar with a still-secret, 6,200-page report. The finding could deepen the worst rift in years between lawmakers and the CIA.

The most high-profile detainee linked to the bin Laden investigation was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the accused Sept. 11 mastermind who was waterboarded 183 times. Mohammed, intelligence officials have noted, confirmed after his 2003 capture that he knew an important al-Qaeda courier with the nom de guerre Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti.

The Senate report concludes such information wasn't critical, according to the aides. Mohammed only discussed al-Kuwaiti months after being waterboarded, while he was under standard interrogation, they said. And Mohammed neither acknowledged al-Kuwaiti's significance nor provided interrogators with the courier's real name.


So, um, wrong again.

 

[Oldstyle]

Ah, Justice Scalia didn't retire...he died suddenly. In case you hadn't noticed there are some elderly liberal Justices on the Court right now who could die just as suddenly.

Possibly. But I'm sure they are going to take really good care of themselves while waiting for Trumpenfuhrer to get impeached.

If Al Gore became President we might have had ISIS ten years earlier. Odds are we never would have gotten Osama bin Laden because that came about because of intel gathered with water boarding which Gore might not have allowed. If Gore were President you think the housing bubble collapse wouldn't have happened? Nothing like wearing partisan "blinders" Joey!

Okay, couple of things here.

1) ISIS Only happened because Bush destabilized Iraq over his War over a Lie.

2) Waterboarding did not get us Bin Laden. IN fact, the guys we waterboarded told interogators that the "Courier" was no one of any importance.

Senate report: Waterboarding didn't lead to Osama bin Laden

A U.S. Senate investigation concludes waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods provided no key evidence in the hunt for Osama bin Laden, according to congressional aides and outside experts familiar with a still-secret, 6,200-page report. The finding could deepen the worst rift in years between lawmakers and the CIA.

The most high-profile detainee linked to the bin Laden investigation was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the accused Sept. 11 mastermind who was waterboarded 183 times. Mohammed, intelligence officials have noted, confirmed after his 2003 capture that he knew an important al-Qaeda courier with the nom de guerre Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti.

The Senate report concludes such information wasn't critical, according to the aides. Mohammed only discussed al-Kuwaiti months after being waterboarded, while he was under standard interrogation, they said. And Mohammed neither acknowledged al-Kuwaiti's significance nor provided interrogators with the courier's real name.


So, um, wrong again.

When Bush left office, ISIS was a total non player in the Middle East...it wasn't until Barack Obama withdrew American combat troops from Iraq despite his military experts warning him that it was premature...that ISIS grew in power like they did! Barry's total misjudgment on what ISIS was...calling them the JV team...and failure to act as they took over huge swaths of the Middle East led to one of the biggest refugee crisis in modern day history. That isn't on Bush...that is totally on Obama!

 

[Oldstyle]

Ah, Justice Scalia didn't retire...he died suddenly. In case you hadn't noticed there are some elderly liberal Justices on the Court right now who could die just as suddenly.

Possibly. But I'm sure they are going to take really good care of themselves while waiting for Trumpenfuhrer to get impeached.

If Al Gore became President we might have had ISIS ten years earlier. Odds are we never would have gotten Osama bin Laden because that came about because of intel gathered with water boarding which Gore might not have allowed. If Gore were President you think the housing bubble collapse wouldn't have happened? Nothing like wearing partisan "blinders" Joey!

Okay, couple of things here.

1) ISIS Only happened because Bush destabilized Iraq over his War over a Lie.

2) Waterboarding did not get us Bin Laden. IN fact, the guys we waterboarded told interogators that the "Courier" was no one of any importance.

Senate report: Waterboarding didn't lead to Osama bin Laden

A U.S. Senate investigation concludes waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods provided no key evidence in the hunt for Osama bin Laden, according to congressional aides and outside experts familiar with a still-secret, 6,200-page report. The finding could deepen the worst rift in years between lawmakers and the CIA.

The most high-profile detainee linked to the bin Laden investigation was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the accused Sept. 11 mastermind who was waterboarded 183 times. Mohammed, intelligence officials have noted, confirmed after his 2003 capture that he knew an important al-Qaeda courier with the nom de guerre Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti.

The Senate report concludes such information wasn't critical, according to the aides. Mohammed only discussed al-Kuwaiti months after being waterboarded, while he was under standard interrogation, they said. And Mohammed neither acknowledged al-Kuwaiti's significance nor provided interrogators with the courier's real name.


So, um, wrong again.

I know that the Obama Administration wants you to believe that THEY caught Osama bin Laden without intelligence gotten from water boarding but the facts dispute that. The name of the courier which led to Osama bin Laden was disclosed by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Farraj al Libbi after they had been water boarded. That name of that courier was the crucial piece of the "mosaic" that ultimately led to Pakistan and Osama bin Laden.

 

[JoeB131]

When Bush left office, ISIS was a total non player in the Middle East...it wasn't until Barack Obama withdrew American combat troops from Iraq despite his military experts warning him that it was premature...

You see, here's the first mistake you make. You mistake 'What they were calling themselves" with "What they were doing".

When Bush left office, you had a bunch of Sunni Militias and Al Qaeda in Iraq, and what was known as the Sunni Triangle was hardly a safe place to go.

The thing was, we didn't WANT to keep Combat Troops in Iraq, and the Iraqis didn't want us to stay. so I'm having a hard time seeing how this was Obama's fault, exactly...

that ISIS grew in power like they did! Barry's total misjudgment on what ISIS was...calling them the JV team...and failure to act as they took over huge swaths of the Middle East led to one of the biggest refugee crisis in modern day history. That isn't on Bush...that is totally on Obama!

Well,I would put that more on Maliki and Assad for allowing the political chaos that gave them an opportunity to grow, but those guys wouldn't have created chaos if Bush hadn't overthrown Saddam in the first place.

But until you and every other asshole Right Winger forms your own private army to go over there and fight the bad old muslims, I wouldn't take you too seriously about it.

I'm tired of working class kids going over there to die for the Jews and the Oil Companies.

I know that the Obama Administration wants you to believe that THEY caught Osama bin Laden without intelligence gotten from water boarding but the facts dispute that. The name of the courier which led to Osama bin Laden was disclosed by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Farraj al Libbi after they had been water boarded. That name of that courier was the crucial piece of the "mosaic" that ultimately led to Pakistan and Osama bin Laden.

Well, no, that's not what the Senate Committee found.

Here's the thing. We caught Khalid in 2002. are you really saying he gave up some critical information during one of the 189 times he was waterboarded that it STILL took 9 years for someone to act on?

Now, your argument would make sense if we caught Bin Laden in 2003 or 2004 (you know, because we didn't pull everything out of Afghanistan so Bush could get revenge on Saddam)

 

[Oldstyle]

When Bush left office, ISIS was a total non player in the Middle East...it wasn't until Barack Obama withdrew American combat troops from Iraq despite his military experts warning him that it was premature...

You see, here's the first mistake you make. You mistake 'What they were calling themselves" with "What they were doing".

When Bush left office, you had a bunch of Sunni Militias and Al Qaeda in Iraq, and what was known as the Sunni Triangle was hardly a safe place to go.

The thing was, we didn't WANT to keep Combat Troops in Iraq, and the Iraqis didn't want us to stay. so I'm having a hard time seeing how this was Obama's fault, exactly...

that ISIS grew in power like they did! Barry's total misjudgment on what ISIS was...calling them the JV team...and failure to act as they took over huge swaths of the Middle East led to one of the biggest refugee crisis in modern day history. That isn't on Bush...that is totally on Obama!

Well,I would put that more on Maliki and Assad for allowing the political chaos that gave them an opportunity to grow, but those guys wouldn't have created chaos if Bush hadn't overthrown Saddam in the first place.

But until you and every other asshole Right Winger forms your own private army to go over there and fight the bad old muslims, I wouldn't take you too seriously about it.

I'm tired of working class kids going over there to die for the Jews and the Oil Companies.

I know that the Obama Administration wants you to believe that THEY caught Osama bin Laden without intelligence gotten from water boarding but the facts dispute that. The name of the courier which led to Osama bin Laden was disclosed by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Farraj al Libbi after they had been water boarded. That name of that courier was the crucial piece of the "mosaic" that ultimately led to Pakistan and Osama bin Laden.

Well, no, that's not what the Senate Committee found.

Here's the thing. We caught Khalid in 2002. are you really saying he gave up some critical information during one of the 189 times he was waterboarded that it STILL took 9 years for someone to act on?

Now, your argument would make sense if we caught Bin Laden in 2003 or 2004 (you know, because we didn't pull everything out of Afghanistan so Bush could get revenge on Saddam)

Nobody WANTS to keep combat troops anywhere! It's expensive and puts them in harm's way. You do so often times however because withdrawing them prematurely creates a power vacuum that others will exploit. That was what Obama's military leaders explained to him prior to the total withdrawal of American combat troops from Iraq...when they advised leaving a force strong enough to prevent that from happening. Obama ignored that advice...didn't seek a new Status of Forces Agreement with Iraq...and pulled out our combat troops. Then to compound that error in judgment...when it became obvious that ISIS was a serious problem...Obama called them the "JV team" and did nothing as they rolled across open desert taking major Iraqi cities and economic plums like Iraqi oil fields.

 

[Oldstyle]

As for the length of time it took to track that courier to finally find Osama bin Laden? How long would it have taken without that name in the first place?

 

[OKTexas]

Trump won 2/3rds of the States, he will be president, deal with it. The electors don't have the constitutional authority not to vote the way their States direct.

actually,t hey do, they just won't.

Once again, the reception hall has been rented and the band has been hired, you go through with the bad wedding...

SCOTUS says the States have every right to bind electors, they act as agents of the State, they are NOT in discretionary positions.

 

[danielpalos]

Trump won 2/3rds of the States, he will be president, deal with it. The electors don't have the constitutional authority not to vote the way their States direct.

actually,t hey do, they just won't.

Once again, the reception hall has been rented and the band has been hired, you go through with the bad wedding...

SCOTUS says the States have every right to bind electors, they act as agents of the State, they are NOT in discretionary positions.

Bind the Electors to what? Being Collegiate in their deliberations.

 

[JoeB131]

As for the length of time it took to track that courier to finally find Osama bin Laden? How long would it have taken without that name in the first place?

How quickly could we have found him had Bush not pulled all our assets out of Afghanistan to go to Iraq?

Nobody WANTS to keep combat troops anywhere! It's expensive and puts them in harm's way. You do so often times however because withdrawing them prematurely creates a power vacuum that others will exploit. That was what Obama's military leaders explained to him prior to the total withdrawal of American combat troops from Iraq...when they advised leaving a force strong enough to prevent that from happening. Obama ignored that advice...didn't seek a new Status of Forces Agreement with Iraq...and pulled out our combat troops. Then to compound that error in judgment...when it became obvious that ISIS was a serious problem...Obama called them the "JV team" and did nothing as they rolled across open desert taking major Iraqi cities and economic plums like Iraqi oil fields.

Guy, we had combat troops in Iraq for 8 fucking years. That was longer than Vietnam, longer than World War II. Again, when you and all your wingnut buddies sign up tofight these wars, I'll take you seriously.

How many more lives are you willing to throw away on bush's fuckup?