The electric car you feel is creating no emissions...

[Pogo]

Do you use a windmill to recharge it? If you plug it in to your house to recharge it, then you are using coal, oil, or gas to run your car. And the conversion from oil to electricity to battery to motor to wheels is not very efficient, some energy is lost in every conversion step.

It was established way back at the beginning of this thread that that's not necessarily the case. Depending on where you live you could be recharging from hydro or solar, etc.

Coal and fossil fuels (and nukes) are the quick-fix solutions of the past, relics of the dawn of the Industrial Revolution when environmental repercussions were not thought through and only end results mattered. That system has to change too, and has been doing so, regardless whether the power generated goes to EVs or completely different things. They are parallel courses.

And no, the oil and gas industry isn't "at the forefront" of jack shit. They're playing catchup to look good, and they started that as soon as it became clear that continuing to oppose it wasn't going to play to John Q. Public and that if they didn't get on board they were going to have no chance of steering the ship.

Denialists...

OK, so if you live where your power comes from solar or wind you can recharge without using fossil fuels. Now, tell us where in the USA 100% of the electricity is generated by solar or wind.

You left out hydro... any special reason?

So what are you saying? That if you can't see it right in front of your own face, throw up your hands and give up?

As I predicted: in to crow "will never work" right on schedule. And as I said above ...... denialists...

 

[Pogo]

Nothing is pure electric. Even electric cars are coal or nuclear electric. The only difference between a locomotive and an electric car is that the locomotive produces it's own electricity. The diesel engine is just a generator. I actually believe fuel electric cars havea viable future. Not hybrids because they aren't fuel electric, they are synergistic.

This will irk the technology knuckledraggers to their last nerve, but using fossil fuels to generate electricity for an electric motor STILL cuts consumption of those fossil fuels.

Here's a Dutch company using a similar idea with buses using in-wheel electric drive to propel the bus. A small diesel motor -- way too small to drive the bus -- is used as an electric generator. This means they get twice the mileage out of a gallon of diesel juice, and this is just the beginning of the technology.

Like it or lump it, efficiency will carry the day.

Now back to our nattering nabobs of negativism for their astute and profound thoughts amounting to "will never work".

Thats great. Now, what runs the diesel engine that turns the generator?

The point I am trying to drive through you dems thick heads is that fossil fuels remain in the mix in a large way. If we can reduce our use of them, great. Everyone is in favor of that. But lets not be so ignorant to think that we can stop using fossil fuels completely in the foreseeable future.

We still need to drill for oil and gas and mine for coal. and YES, we need to find cleaner ways to use them-------NO ONE disagrees with that.

"Dems"? Product of the same limited thought ability that can only see in black and white I guess....

"We" (meaning oil/gas/mining corporations) already drill and mine. What we (meaning we) need to do is find ways to be less dependent on it, starting first and foremost with conservation. We (meaning we) waste unspeakable amounts of heat, power and fuel resources, keeping empty buildings lit up and heated/cooled, using inefficient "stupid lights" in traffic, and a thousand other things. We're starting to get it and catch up with the rest of the world but we have quite a way to go. Devising vehicles that can cut use of those resources in half, or cut them altogether, is one of many paths to those improvements. If you have nothing to contribute to that goal, let somebody else take the initiative, quit whining and get the hell out of the way.

 

[beagle9]

Wrong, asshole. A "diesel" locomotive uses a diesel motor to drive an electric generator which powers the electric motors that drive the wheels.

Again, for the slow -- if you're driving the wheels with an electric motor, then you're driving the wheels with an electric motor.

Am I posting too fast for you?

In the diesel locomotive there are three things that make the wheels turn. A diesel engine burns diesel fuel (oil) to turn a shaft which turns a generator which makes electricity, that electricity is used to turn an electric motor which turns a shaft that is connected to the wheels, then the wheels turn and the train moves. Without the diesel engine nothing would happen.

Isn't the reason for these locomotives using these concepts, pretty much because they are basically being used for the gear ratio's and different power source transfers in which are being employed in the over all process of the over all engines weight to power ratio's that are needed in the set up ? Otherwise by the time it's all transferred to the wheels, it is using the most efficient and most powerful method at this point, and it is all in order to get the job done in the most powerful and most efficient way possible ? The locomotive may be one of the best examples of mixing technologies like it does in order to get the best results from both.

 

[ShackledNation]

This just in... The electric car you feel is creating no emissions is actually powered by coal in the most inefficient way humanly possible... Movie at 11.



peace...

It depends where the power source you are using gets its energy from. It varies depending on where you are.

Even if you are getting much from coal, an electric car leads to significantly less carbon dioxide pollution from electricity than the CO2 pollution from the oil of a conventional car with an internal combustion engine.

Try again

 

[itfitzme]

In order to answer that we need to know where it gets the electricity to recharge its batteries. Also, we need to know where the spent toxic batteries will be disposed of.

The batteries are obviously recycled appropriately. They last a long time and are easily identified, they have a car attached. They aren't double A's.

The eia has the info on emissions.

How much carbon dioxide is produced by burning gasoline and diesel fuel? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

"How much carbon dioxide is produced by burning gasoline and diesel fuel?
About 19.64 pounds of carbon dioxide (CO2) are produced from burning a gallon of gasoline that does not contain ethanol. About 22.38 pounds of CO2 are produced by burning a gallon of diesel fuel."


The electric auto produces no emissions.

The eia also has info on co2 per kw for different methods of generation.

How much carbon dioxide is produced per kilowatthour when generating electricity with fossil fuels? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Hydroelectric produces none. So that's an easy calculation.

The others a bit more complicated.

We can rough out the solution without it, though.

An electric car with solar produces none.
An electric car with coal produces some.

The difference betwen the two is the generation method, so it's not the car that is the causal factor.

An inernal combustion engine produces it regardless of how electricit is generated on the grid. It is the causal factor.

I think the idea of the electric vehicle is that it s one link in a chain. It solves one of the issues.

moving a car requires energy, the energy must be produced by something. If you can recharge your car using solar, great, but it won't work too well at night, and if you charge it during the day and drive at night it won't run as long because some of the charge will be used to run the lights, and don't even think about turning on the A/C.

maybe you can recharge from a windmill, but how will you get to work the next day if no wind is blowing that night?

I do agree with your last sentence, however. one link, but a minor link.

Use the power grid like everyone else.

 

[itfitzme]

It was established way back at the beginning of this thread that that's not necessarily the case. Depending on where you live you could be recharging from hydro or solar, etc.

Coal and fossil fuels (and nukes) are the quick-fix solutions of the past, relics of the dawn of the Industrial Revolution when environmental repercussions were not thought through and only end results mattered. That system has to change too, and has been doing so, regardless whether the power generated goes to EVs or completely different things. They are parallel courses.

And no, the oil and gas industry isn't "at the forefront" of jack shit. They're playing catchup to look good, and they started that as soon as it became clear that continuing to oppose it wasn't going to play to John Q. Public and that if they didn't get on board they were going to have no chance of steering the ship.

Denialists...

OK, so if you live where your power comes from solar or wind you can recharge without using fossil fuels. Now, tell us where in the USA 100% of the electricity is generated by solar or wind.

You left out hydro... any special reason?

So what are you saying? That if you can't see it right in front of your own face, throw up your hands and give up?

As I predicted: in to crow "will never work" right on schedule. And as I said above ...... denialists...

Nuclear.

 

[francoHFW]

Do you use a windmill to recharge it? If you plug it in to your house to recharge it, then you are using coal, oil, or gas to run your car. And the conversion from oil to electricity to battery to motor to wheels is not very efficient, some energy is lost in every conversion step.

It was established way back at the beginning of this thread that that's not necessarily the case. Depending on where you live you could be recharging from hydro or solar, etc.

Coal and fossil fuels (and nukes) are the quick-fix solutions of the past, relics of the dawn of the Industrial Revolution when environmental repercussions were not thought through and only end results mattered. That system has to change too, and has been doing so, regardless whether the power generated goes to EVs or completely different things. They are parallel courses.

And no, the oil and gas industry isn't "at the forefront" of jack shit. They're playing catchup to look good, and they started that as soon as it became clear that continuing to oppose it wasn't going to play to John Q. Public and that if they didn't get on board they were going to have no chance of steering the ship.

Denialists...

OK, so if you live where your power comes from solar or wind you can recharge without using fossil fuels. Now, tell us where in the USA 100% of the electricity is generated by solar or wind.

When a Tesla is said to get the equivalent of 100 mpg, THAT'S A GIANT IMPROVEMENT, DINGBAT.

 

[francoHFW]

NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT. Ay caramba.

 

[Politico]

Isn't the reason for these locomotives using these concepts, pretty much because they are basically being used for the gear ratio's and different power source transfers in which are being employed in the over all process of the over all engines weight to power ratio's that are needed in the set up ? Otherwise by the time it's all transferred to the wheels, it is using the most efficient and most powerful method at this point, and it is all in order to get the job done in the most powerful and most efficient way possible ? The locomotive may be one of the best examples of mixing technologies like it does in order to get the best results from both.

That is exactly the reason, Torque and power.

Again, for the slow -- if you're driving the wheels with an electric motor, then you're driving the wheels with an electric motor.

Am I posting too fast for you?

In the diesel locomotive there are three things that make the wheels turn. A diesel engine burns diesel fuel (oil) to turn a shaft which turns a generator which makes electricity, that electricity is used to turn an electric motor which turns a shaft that is connected to the wheels, then the wheels turn and the train moves. Without the diesel engine nothing would happen.

That's one thing, not three. Strip out the diesel engine and replace it with some other power source, you still have an electrically-propelled train.

Again for the slow. What would you replace it with? Engine fairies?

 

[Redfish]

The batteries are obviously recycled appropriately. They last a long time and are easily identified, they have a car attached. They aren't double A's.

The eia has the info on emissions.

How much carbon dioxide is produced by burning gasoline and diesel fuel? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

"How much carbon dioxide is produced by burning gasoline and diesel fuel?
About 19.64 pounds of carbon dioxide (CO2) are produced from burning a gallon of gasoline that does not contain ethanol. About 22.38 pounds of CO2 are produced by burning a gallon of diesel fuel."


The electric auto produces no emissions.

The eia also has info on co2 per kw for different methods of generation.

How much carbon dioxide is produced per kilowatthour when generating electricity with fossil fuels? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Hydroelectric produces none. So that's an easy calculation.

The others a bit more complicated.

We can rough out the solution without it, though.

An electric car with solar produces none.
An electric car with coal produces some.

The difference betwen the two is the generation method, so it's not the car that is the causal factor.

An inernal combustion engine produces it regardless of how electricit is generated on the grid. It is the causal factor.

I think the idea of the electric vehicle is that it s one link in a chain. It solves one of the issues.

moving a car requires energy, the energy must be produced by something. If you can recharge your car using solar, great, but it won't work too well at night, and if you charge it during the day and drive at night it won't run as long because some of the charge will be used to run the lights, and don't even think about turning on the A/C.

maybe you can recharge from a windmill, but how will you get to work the next day if no wind is blowing that night?

I do agree with your last sentence, however. one link, but a minor link.

Use the power grid like everyone else.

What puts the power in the grid? If there is more demand put on the grid where will the extra requirements come from?

 

[Redfish]

It was established way back at the beginning of this thread that that's not necessarily the case. Depending on where you live you could be recharging from hydro or solar, etc.

Coal and fossil fuels (and nukes) are the quick-fix solutions of the past, relics of the dawn of the Industrial Revolution when environmental repercussions were not thought through and only end results mattered. That system has to change too, and has been doing so, regardless whether the power generated goes to EVs or completely different things. They are parallel courses.

And no, the oil and gas industry isn't "at the forefront" of jack shit. They're playing catchup to look good, and they started that as soon as it became clear that continuing to oppose it wasn't going to play to John Q. Public and that if they didn't get on board they were going to have no chance of steering the ship.

Denialists...

OK, so if you live where your power comes from solar or wind you can recharge without using fossil fuels. Now, tell us where in the USA 100% of the electricity is generated by solar or wind.

You left out hydro... any special reason?

So what are you saying? That if you can't see it right in front of your own face, throw up your hands and give up?

As I predicted: in to crow "will never work" right on schedule. And as I said above ...... denialists...

Hydro is great, when did the US last build a hydro dam?

 

[Redfish]

Isn't the reason for these locomotives using these concepts, pretty much because they are basically being used for the gear ratio's and different power source transfers in which are being employed in the over all process of the over all engines weight to power ratio's that are needed in the set up ? Otherwise by the time it's all transferred to the wheels, it is using the most efficient and most powerful method at this point, and it is all in order to get the job done in the most powerful and most efficient way possible ? The locomotive may be one of the best examples of mixing technologies like it does in order to get the best results from both.

That is exactly the reason, Torque and power.

In the diesel locomotive there are three things that make the wheels turn. A diesel engine burns diesel fuel (oil) to turn a shaft which turns a generator which makes electricity, that electricity is used to turn an electric motor which turns a shaft that is connected to the wheels, then the wheels turn and the train moves. Without the diesel engine nothing would happen.

That's one thing, not three. Strip out the diesel engine and replace it with some other power source, you still have an electrically-propelled train.

Again for the slow. What would you replace it with? Engine fairies?

you won't get an answer---------maybe he will say "something better"

 

[Pogo]

Isn't the reason for these locomotives using these concepts, pretty much because they are basically being used for the gear ratio's and different power source transfers in which are being employed in the over all process of the over all engines weight to power ratio's that are needed in the set up ? Otherwise by the time it's all transferred to the wheels, it is using the most efficient and most powerful method at this point, and it is all in order to get the job done in the most powerful and most efficient way possible ? The locomotive may be one of the best examples of mixing technologies like it does in order to get the best results from both.

That is exactly the reason, Torque and power.

In the diesel locomotive there are three things that make the wheels turn. A diesel engine burns diesel fuel (oil) to turn a shaft which turns a generator which makes electricity, that electricity is used to turn an electric motor which turns a shaft that is connected to the wheels, then the wheels turn and the train moves. Without the diesel engine nothing would happen.

That's one thing, not three. Strip out the diesel engine and replace it with some other power source, you still have an electrically-propelled train.

Again for the slow. What would you replace it with? Engine fairies?

There ^^ it is again: "I don't see the answer right in front of my nose, therefore let's all throw up our hands and give up. Ready -- on three, one... two... "

It doesn't matter. The point remains, whatever generates the power -- fairies, batteries, solar cells, coal, a perpetual motion dynamo, the electric motor is *STILL* driving the train, therefore it's electrically propelled, period. Getting OCD over the tree doesn't make the forest disappear.

Man, we gotta define "slow"...

 

[Pogo]

moving a car requires energy, the energy must be produced by something. If you can recharge your car using solar, great, but it won't work too well at night, and if you charge it during the day and drive at night it won't run as long because some of the charge will be used to run the lights, and don't even think about turning on the A/C.

maybe you can recharge from a windmill, but how will you get to work the next day if no wind is blowing that night?

I do agree with your last sentence, however. one link, but a minor link.

Use the power grid like everyone else.

What puts the power in the grid? If there is more demand put on the grid where will the extra requirements come from?

Your premise is self-limiting. Why does there need to be a grid in the first place? Think decentralization.

My neighbor across the street is entirely off the grid. Generates his own power. I don't know if he's got an EV but if he does he can charge it that way too. No coal, no nukes, no power company. Self-sufficient. And that lifts demand off the grid.

 

[Pogo]

OK, so if you live where your power comes from solar or wind you can recharge without using fossil fuels. Now, tell us where in the USA 100% of the electricity is generated by solar or wind.

You left out hydro... any special reason?

So what are you saying? That if you can't see it right in front of your own face, throw up your hands and give up?

As I predicted: in to crow "will never work" right on schedule. And as I said above ...... denialists...

Hydro is great, when did the US last build a hydro dam?

Fucked if I know. What difference does it make when one was last built? What, we haven't done this in X amount of time, therefore we can never do it again?

Also --- define "we".

There's a huge hydro facility not far west of here from TVA that powered a lot of military operations in WWII and today powers a lot of people. Unfortunately they never figured out a way to make it spew sulfur or generate a waste product that stays deadly for longer than humans have existed. They fell a bit short on that aspect.

 

[mal]

Former Electric-car Engineer: Electric Cars Pollute More Than Gas

"Electric cars cannot currently be charged on a wide scale with renewable resources such as solar. Even if they could, however:

Solar cells contain heavy metals, and their manufacturing releases greenhouse gases such as sulfur hexafluoride, which has 23,000 times as much global warming potential as CO2, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. What’s more, fossil fuels are burned in the extraction of the raw materials needed to make solar cells and wind turbines — and for their fabrication, assembly, and maintenance. The same is true for the redundant backup power plants they require. And even more fossil fuel is burned when all this equipment is decommissioned."

An excellent read if you missed it the first time I posted it.



peace...

 

[mal]

• The rare earth metals used in many magnets in electric cars are expensive and uneconomical to extract on a wide scale. And the “global mining of two rare earth metals, neodymium and dysprosium, would need to increase 700 percent and 2600 percent, respectively, over the next 25 years to keep pace with various green-tech plans.” Alternatives do exist, but exploiting them would involve efficiency-and-cost trade-offs.

• The extraction and processing of materials found in batteries — such as lithium, copper, and nickel — “demand energy and can release toxic wastes.” In addition, extracting them in poorly regulated areas imperials not only workers, but also “surrounding populations through air and groundwater contamination.”





peace...

 

[beagle9]

isn't the reason for these locomotives using these concepts, pretty much because they are basically being used for the gear ratio's and different power source transfers in which are being employed in the over all process of the over all engines weight to power ratio's that are needed in the set up ? Otherwise by the time it's all transferred to the wheels, it is using the most efficient and most powerful method at this point, and it is all in order to get the job done in the most powerful and most efficient way possible ? The locomotive may be one of the best examples of mixing technologies like it does in order to get the best results from both.

that is exactly the reason, torque and power.

in the diesel locomotive there are three things that make the wheels turn. A diesel engine burns diesel fuel (oil) to turn a shaft which turns a generator which makes electricity, that electricity is used to turn an electric motor which turns a shaft that is connected to the wheels, then the wheels turn and the train moves. Without the diesel engine nothing would happen.

that's one thing, not three. Strip out the diesel engine and replace it with some other power source, you still have an electrically-propelled train.

again for the slow. What would you replace it with? Engine fairies?

lol

 

[beagle9]

• The rare earth metals used in many magnets in electric cars are expensive and uneconomical to extract on a wide scale. And the “global mining of two rare earth metals, neodymium and dysprosium, would need to increase 700 percent and 2600 percent, respectively, over the next 25 years to keep pace with various green-tech plans.” Alternatives do exist, but exploiting them would involve efficiency-and-cost trade-offs.

• The extraction and processing of materials found in batteries — such as lithium, copper, and nickel — “demand energy and can release toxic wastes.” In addition, extracting them in poorly regulated areas imperials not only workers, but also “surrounding populations through air and groundwater contamination.”





peace...

Like you say, all the trade offs need to be known in order to come up with the most efficient systems out there, but if we are to dumb and/or off balanced anymore in this nation, and this in order to get our heads back on straight, ((especially after the apple dumpling gang leaves office)), then we are again backed up years and years and years or we are stuck in the old way of doing things until people begin to unify once again in this nation.

 

[beagle9]

Former Electric-car Engineer: Electric Cars Pollute More Than Gas

"Electric cars cannot currently be charged on a wide scale with renewable resources such as solar. Even if they could, however:

Solar cells contain heavy metals, and their manufacturing releases greenhouse gases such as sulfur hexafluoride, which has 23,000 times as much global warming potential as CO2, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. What’s more, fossil fuels are burned in the extraction of the raw materials needed to make solar cells and wind turbines — and for their fabrication, assembly, and maintenance. The same is true for the redundant backup power plants they require. And even more fossil fuel is burned when all this equipment is decommissioned."

An excellent read if you missed it the first time I posted it.



peace...

Be nice to know where all this cancer has come from over the years... Something or a combination of things is the culprit, but no one seems to be able to put an exact finger on it, and it may be because it would rock the economy hard if they did. I would rather solve cancer in this nation, than put so much emphasis on solving the climate change problem, but then again they might all go together as a sort of cocktail when it is all looked back upon in the future.