The fix is in.

[LoneLaugher]

It's where we are in our politics now: It was said in here when Trump was elected and the GOP kept the Congress, that the only thing the Dems could do was damage Trump so that moderate Republicans would shy away from him. That's the only power the Dems had/have. There were several conversations about that very thing.

Well, it's playing out, right on cue. The problem for Trump is that he doesn't have enough support from the public to change it. Well, given his behavior, that can't exactly be considered a shock.
.

I don't believe that at all. I know people who wish he wouldn't tweet so much, or wouldn't attack the media so much, but when you ask them, they will all vote for him again.

His base is his base, at least 85% is going to stick with him, because that's what a base does. I'm talking about the internal polling done by Republicans who are in for tough races in 2018. I've been saying all along that those are the polls that matter right now, and that we'll be able to tell how they look by the way those Republicans act towards Trump.

You can argue that those polls are wrong, but Trump is (especially after sacking Priebus) becoming more and more isolated within his own party right now, and he can't pass laws by himself. And given the way he is, that just can't be a surprise.
.

. What we might be seeing is that America was being undermined for so long, that too many players have been put into place over the years, in order to protect the agenda of those who envision an America that will be unrecognizable by those living today. It will be a shiney city on a hill, but the contents will be pure evil. It's already in motion, so let's see if it was to be our destiny or not. All eye's are on Washington now.

Nothing will change in Washington. DC without term limits.

Why is there term limit only for the president? Because the insatiably power hungry cripple amply proved that limitless power by an individual is detrimental to the country.

How come it is not obvious that term limits must be applied to all members of Congress, because they are all insatiably power hungry.

Limit them to 12 years and thank them for their service and say goodbye.

Nothing illustrates how rotten to the core they all than the fact that they all resist the very idea of term limits.

Bingo.

Is there ANYONE who really thinks that these people would behave the way they do if they didn't have one eye on fundraising and re-election?

Is there ANYONE who really thinks that these people don't build power/influence bases that make re-election easier, regardless of their quality?

There's nothing special about these people. They can be replaced. All of them.

I'd make it even shorter than 12 years, but that would be a great start.
.

Are there any good arguments in opposition to term limits?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Here is one that gave me reason to reconsider my knee-jerk opinion on the subject a few years back.

The best argument against term limits — the voters

 

[rightwinger]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

Mueller is a Republican

He is there to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election

If Croked Donnie is innocent, he has nothing to worry about

 

[beagle9]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

Mueller is a Republican

He is there to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election

If Crooked Donnie is innocent, he has nothing to worry about

. If "crooked" Donnie is "innocent" ... You are an idiot.. lol... Your statement shows a heartbreak coming for you when he is cleared to the dembots dissatisfaction.

 

[LoneLaugher]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

Mueller is a Republican

He is there to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election

If Crooked Donnie is innocent, he has nothing to worry about

. If "crooked" Donnie is "innocent" ... You are an idiot.. lol... Your statement shows a heartbreak coming for you when he is cleared to the dembots dissatisfaction.

He will not be cleared. He admitted to obstruction of justice on TV. He wrote a false statement for his son in order to cover up the real purpose of the June meeting. He may never be impeached, but he will also never be cleared.

 

[PredFan]

I don't believe that at all. I know people who wish he wouldn't tweet so much, or wouldn't attack the media so much, but when you ask them, they will all vote for him again.

His base is his base, at least 85% is going to stick with him, because that's what a base does. I'm talking about the internal polling done by Republicans who are in for tough races in 2018. I've been saying all along that those are the polls that matter right now, and that we'll be able to tell how they look by the way those Republicans act towards Trump.

You can argue that those polls are wrong, but Trump is (especially after sacking Priebus) becoming more and more isolated within his own party right now, and he can't pass laws by himself. And given the way he is, that just can't be a surprise.
.

. What we might be seeing is that America was being undermined for so long, that too many players have been put into place over the years, in order to protect the agenda of those who envision an America that will be unrecognizable by those living today. It will be a shiney city on a hill, but the contents will be pure evil. It's already in motion, so let's see if it was to be our destiny or not. All eye's are on Washington now.

Nothing will change in Washington. DC without term limits.

Why is there term limit only for the president? Because the insatiably power hungry cripple amply proved that limitless power by an individual is detrimental to the country.

How come it is not obvious that term limits must be applied to all members of Congress, because they are all insatiably power hungry.

Limit them to 12 years and thank them for their service and say goodbye.

Nothing illustrates how rotten to the core they all than the fact that they all resist the very idea of term limits.

Bingo.

Is there ANYONE who really thinks that these people would behave the way they do if they didn't have one eye on fundraising and re-election?

Is there ANYONE who really thinks that these people don't build power/influence bases that make re-election easier, regardless of their quality?

There's nothing special about these people. They can be replaced. All of them.

I'd make it even shorter than 12 years, but that would be a great start.
.

Are there any good arguments in opposition to term limits?

Yes there are. People seem to think, especially on the right, that the answer to assholes like McCain, Graham, Pelosi, Waters, etc, is term limits but they forget that they are elected each cycle by the people in their district. If say John McCain was to get term limited out this year, the voters in his district would simply put another one just like him there. If Nancy Pelosi was to get term limited out this year, does anyone think that those voters would put a conservative in there? So it doesn't really do what proponents hope it will. The bad thing about that is that it also throws out good people. Politicians who do good things for their people. I can imagine projects and bills to help a state taking quite a while to get done.

I've only ever heard one legitimate pro for term limits and that was that if they are limited, they will know that they have to go back to private life and live under the rules they made when they were in congress. I can see how that might be a good thing but I can see how easily they can avoid that problem altogether.

So, in answer to your statement, Term Limits won't do what most people think they will and it has potential for harm, and that harm being worse than the good.

 

[LoneLaugher]

His base is his base, at least 85% is going to stick with him, because that's what a base does. I'm talking about the internal polling done by Republicans who are in for tough races in 2018. I've been saying all along that those are the polls that matter right now, and that we'll be able to tell how they look by the way those Republicans act towards Trump.

You can argue that those polls are wrong, but Trump is (especially after sacking Priebus) becoming more and more isolated within his own party right now, and he can't pass laws by himself. And given the way he is, that just can't be a surprise.
.

. What we might be seeing is that America was being undermined for so long, that too many players have been put into place over the years, in order to protect the agenda of those who envision an America that will be unrecognizable by those living today. It will be a shiney city on a hill, but the contents will be pure evil. It's already in motion, so let's see if it was to be our destiny or not. All eye's are on Washington now.

Nothing will change in Washington. DC without term limits.

Why is there term limit only for the president? Because the insatiably power hungry cripple amply proved that limitless power by an individual is detrimental to the country.

How come it is not obvious that term limits must be applied to all members of Congress, because they are all insatiably power hungry.

Limit them to 12 years and thank them for their service and say goodbye.

Nothing illustrates how rotten to the core they all than the fact that they all resist the very idea of term limits.

Bingo.

Is there ANYONE who really thinks that these people would behave the way they do if they didn't have one eye on fundraising and re-election?

Is there ANYONE who really thinks that these people don't build power/influence bases that make re-election easier, regardless of their quality?

There's nothing special about these people. They can be replaced. All of them.

I'd make it even shorter than 12 years, but that would be a great start.
.

Are there any good arguments in opposition to term limits?

Yes there are. People seem to think, especially on the right, that the answer to assholes like McCain, Graham, Pelosi, Waters, etc, is term limits but they forget that they are elected each cycle by the people in their district. If say John McCain was to get term limited out this year, the voters in his district would simply put another one just like him there. If Nancy Pelosi was to get term limited out this year, does anyone think that those voters would put a conservative in there? So it doesn't really do what proponents hope it will. The bad thing about that is that it also throws out good people. Politicians who do good things for their people. I can imagine projects and bills to help a state taking quite a while to get done.

I've only ever heard one legitimate pro for term limits and that was that if they are limited, they will know that they have to go back to private life and live under the rules they made when they were in congress. I can see how that might be a good thing but I can see how easily they can avoid that problem altogether.

So, in answer to your statement, Term Limits won't do what most people think they will and it has potential for harm, and that harm being worse than the good.

Oh look! We agree! Let's have lunch someday in O-town and drink a toast to all that we have in common!

 

[PredFan]

. What we might be seeing is that America was being undermined for so long, that too many players have been put into place over the years, in order to protect the agenda of those who envision an America that will be unrecognizable by those living today. It will be a shiney city on a hill, but the contents will be pure evil. It's already in motion, so let's see if it was to be our destiny or not. All eye's are on Washington now.

Nothing will change in Washington. DC without term limits.

Why is there term limit only for the president? Because the insatiably power hungry cripple amply proved that limitless power by an individual is detrimental to the country.

How come it is not obvious that term limits must be applied to all members of Congress, because they are all insatiably power hungry.

Limit them to 12 years and thank them for their service and say goodbye.

Nothing illustrates how rotten to the core they all than the fact that they all resist the very idea of term limits.

Bingo.

Is there ANYONE who really thinks that these people would behave the way they do if they didn't have one eye on fundraising and re-election?

Is there ANYONE who really thinks that these people don't build power/influence bases that make re-election easier, regardless of their quality?

There's nothing special about these people. They can be replaced. All of them.

I'd make it even shorter than 12 years, but that would be a great start.
.

Are there any good arguments in opposition to term limits?

Yes there are. People seem to think, especially on the right, that the answer to assholes like McCain, Graham, Pelosi, Waters, etc, is term limits but they forget that they are elected each cycle by the people in their district. If say John McCain was to get term limited out this year, the voters in his district would simply put another one just like him there. If Nancy Pelosi was to get term limited out this year, does anyone think that those voters would put a conservative in there? So it doesn't really do what proponents hope it will. The bad thing about that is that it also throws out good people. Politicians who do good things for their people. I can imagine projects and bills to help a state taking quite a while to get done.

I've only ever heard one legitimate pro for term limits and that was that if they are limited, they will know that they have to go back to private life and live under the rules they made when they were in congress. I can see how that might be a good thing but I can see how easily they can avoid that problem altogether.

So, in answer to your statement, Term Limits won't do what most people think they will and it has potential for harm, and that harm being worse than the good.

Oh look! We agree! Let's have lunch someday in O-town and drink a toast to all that we have in common!

 

[PredFan]

Here is one that gave me reason to reconsider my knee-jerk opinion on the subject a few years back.

The best argument against term limits — the voters

And then there is that argument as well. If I like my congressman, who are you or the government to tell me I can't keep him or her? They are called representatives for a reason. They are my representative, I should be the only one deciding when they need to be replaced.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

Do you ever wonder why everything you believe requires a conspiracy to be valid?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

I think they, and we...just want an investigation. Kinda like you guys did wit Benghazi...or...were you corrupt to the core too?

Except that Benghazi was an actual thing, with actual fuck ups and actual lying. This is total bull shit.

In order for your comparison to work, they would have had to hold a hearing to find out if anyone died, or if there even was an attack at Benghazi.

Hate to disappoint you but the Russian interference in our elections was an actual thing.

No one has to die to confirm reality or make something serious.

You guys are just trying to find excuses.

That isn't what they are investigating and you know it. They are investigating Trump for collusion. You are just being immature.

It's well beyond mere collusion.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

I think they, and we...just want an investigation. Kinda like you guys did wit Benghazi...or...were you corrupt to the core too?

Except that Benghazi was an actual thing, with actual fuck ups and actual lying. This is total bull shit.

In order for your comparison to work, they would have had to hold a hearing to find out if anyone died, or if there even was an attack at Benghazi.

Hate to disappoint you but the Russian interference in our elections was an actual thing.

No one has to die to confirm reality or make something serious.

You guys are just trying to find excuses.

Name one actual thing that affected the vote.

It's not quantifiable. What is quantifiable is that Trump narrowly won in key states. He won Michigan by only two votes per district. Certainly within a margin that could have been swayed by election cuntery.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I think they, and we...just want an investigation. Kinda like you guys did wit Benghazi...or...were you corrupt to the core too?

Except that Benghazi was an actual thing, with actual fuck ups and actual lying. This is total bull shit.

In order for your comparison to work, they would have had to hold a hearing to find out if anyone died, or if there even was an attack at Benghazi.

Hate to disappoint you but the Russian interference in our elections was an actual thing.

No one has to die to confirm reality or make something serious.

You guys are just trying to find excuses.

Name one actual thing that affected the vote.

Whether it affected voting choices is unknown, unknowable and irrelevent.

Not to mention, not the point.

What is the point they look until they can impeach Trump while ignoring real criminals and what I call subversion being they are the culprits themselves.

Any criminality that emerges during the course of the investigation will be addressed accordingly. Do you suppose they should just ignore it? Maybe the actions of the Trump team is what precipitated this investigation in the first place. What do you think?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Actually they have, and in fact there is one Navy sailor sitting in jail right now for doing significantly less. You are factually wrong.

No, I'm not. I discussed the sailor I assume you're talking about a few posts ago.

He did not do "significantly less", and the context of the case makes it clear that his case and Hillary's are legally unrelated.

She specifically violated the law as regards the handling of secure data. This is not arguable. That is a felony as laid out by comey in his testimony to Congress. He is the person, and singular in his interpretation, who decided that intent had to be a component of the crime. The actual law has no intent component. As I said, you are factually wrong.

Intent. There was none. You saying that this doesn't matter is pointless. It obviously mattwrs.

"The actual law has no intent component". Where do you get shit like that?

She admitted her error. She withstood the hearings. She didn't lie about what had occurred. No cover up.

No, it doesn't. The law doesn't have an intent component. It is quite simply if you do "X", you have committed a felony. hillary DID "X". Thus she committed a felony. Add to that the fact that she was required to read a handbook that deals with the handling of secure data, and she doesn't have the old "I didn't know" defense either. She is ASSUMED to know because she was required, as a condition of her job, to read the book.

She has zero defense.

Actually on her first day on the job, she has to sign a document swearing that she is aware of all statutes regarding the handling of sensitive information and that she must take every effort to protect it and assumes all responsibility. She is the SECRETARY of the State Department! There is no one above her than the POTUS!

And "assuming responsibility" does not mean merely saying: "I assume all responsibility," it means being subject to the terms, conditions, fines and penalties of the law! Wouldn't it be nice if I could wreck into someone, steal from their house, then in court say: "Judge, I ASSUME ALL RESPONSIBILITY." And the judge says: "Good! Now that we have that settled, CASE DISMISSED!

I swear, some of the arguments on this board are on the level of a 5 year old! And they make them with a straight face!

Hmm...sounds like similar language to the security clearance disclosure form.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

1. Of course Comey and Mueller know each other - they've been working together for nearly 20 years. They're also both registered republicans (or in Comey's case, was), both have impeccable credentials and respect from both sides of the aisle, and finally, Comey is not a subject of Muellers investigation.

2. 8 out of the 15 lawyers Mueller has hired were Hillary supporters. That's as accurate a slice of the American population that Mueller could have come up with.

3. Where else would the GJ be enpanelled? Idaho?

1. Irrelevant.

2. 8 out of 15 were Hillary supporters, the rest were formerly on 0bama's staff.

3. It was originally going to be in Virginia.

No, Flynn's grand jury was Virginia, where his consulting/lobbyist business is located.

Washington DC covers any white house people or alleged crimes against the Nation...

Unlike other juries or grand juries, Federal Grand Juries sit for 18 months, and handle hundreds of cases during that period....they are not picked for any specific case/trial as a jury for a criminal trial.

Oh really? So why isn't he using an already seated GJ? Why is he appointing a new one?

So he would have the same jury for a full eighteen months.

 

[Lastamender]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

I think they, and we...just want an investigation. Kinda like you guys did wit Benghazi...or...were you corrupt to the core too?

Except that Benghazi was an actual thing, with actual fuck ups and actual lying. This is total bull shit.

In order for your comparison to work, they would have had to hold a hearing to find out if anyone died, or if there even was an attack at Benghazi.

Hate to disappoint you but the Russian interference in our elections was an actual thing.

No one has to die to confirm reality or make something serious.

You guys are just trying to find excuses.

Name one actual thing that affected the vote.

It's not quantifiable. What is quantifiable is that Trump narrowly won in key states. He won Michigan by only two votes per district. Certainly within a margin that could have been swayed by election cuntery.

What makes you think a political novice like Trump would even know how to change any votes? If any one tampered with the vote I would think it would have to be experienced political teams like the Democratic machines installed in many urban areas, including Michigan.

 

[PredFan]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

Do you ever wonder why everything you believe requires a conspiracy to be valid?

No, because it never happens. Do you ever wonder why you are wrong about everything?

 

[PredFan]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

I think they, and we...just want an investigation. Kinda like you guys did wit Benghazi...or...were you corrupt to the core too?

Except that Benghazi was an actual thing, with actual fuck ups and actual lying. This is total bull shit.

In order for your comparison to work, they would have had to hold a hearing to find out if anyone died, or if there even was an attack at Benghazi.

Hate to disappoint you but the Russian interference in our elections was an actual thing.

No one has to die to confirm reality or make something serious.

You guys are just trying to find excuses.

That isn't what they are investigating and you know it. They are investigating Trump for collusion. You are just being immature.

It's well beyond mere collusion.

Lol! What a mindless rube you are.

 

[PredFan]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

1. Of course Comey and Mueller know each other - they've been working together for nearly 20 years. They're also both registered republicans (or in Comey's case, was), both have impeccable credentials and respect from both sides of the aisle, and finally, Comey is not a subject of Muellers investigation.

2. 8 out of the 15 lawyers Mueller has hired were Hillary supporters. That's as accurate a slice of the American population that Mueller could have come up with.

3. Where else would the GJ be enpanelled? Idaho?

1. Irrelevant.

2. 8 out of 15 were Hillary supporters, the rest were formerly on 0bama's staff.

3. It was originally going to be in Virginia.

No, Flynn's grand jury was Virginia, where his consulting/lobbyist business is located.

Washington DC covers any white house people or alleged crimes against the Nation...

Unlike other juries or grand juries, Federal Grand Juries sit for 18 months, and handle hundreds of cases during that period....they are not picked for any specific case/trial as a jury for a criminal trial.

Oh really? So why isn't he using an already seated GJ? Why is he appointing a new one?

So he would have the same jury for a full eighteen months.

Like I said. The fix is in.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

The dems just don't get it. Nothing matters, Trump is Trump and will be Trump for another 7.5 years. There is no such crime as collusion, and if Mueller gets outside of his legal boundaries, Trump will just fire him for going outside his lane. The battle lines in DC are "globalists vs populists", pick a side. Obama said manufacturing jobs are gone, Trump said manufacturing jobs are coming back. Pick a side.

I WISH it was this simple.

You are counting on the law to protect you. Venezuelans did this for too long also.

The Left is taking a step by step path to remove Trump.

They are not taking "No" for an answer.

Where is the Right? Where are the mass protests? Where are the million plus marches on Washington by the Right?

All of what you see going on is primarily to prevent Trump from appointing additional SCOTUS justices but also district Federal Judges.

I say if they don't stop him with Mueller, they will use the JFK approach.

The "fix" is indeed in......and the ONLY thing between them is you and me.