The fix is in.

[Coyote]

I think they, and we...just want an investigation. Kinda like you guys did wit Benghazi...or...were you corrupt to the core too?

Except that Benghazi was an actual thing, with actual fuck ups and actual lying. This is total bull shit.

In order for your comparison to work, they would have had to hold a hearing to find out if anyone died, or if there even was an attack at Benghazi.

Hate to disappoint you but the Russian interference in our elections was an actual thing.

No one has to die to confirm reality or make something serious.

You guys are just trying to find excuses.

Name one actual thing that affected the vote.

Whether it affected voting choices is unknown, unknowable and irrelevent.

Not to mention, not the point.

. Y'all keep changing your story like a bad pair of underwear. Are you all ever gonna quit crapping your britches yet ?

What have I changed?

 

[Spare_change]

PredFan , let's say this is all true. Let's even say that the Republican members of "the swamp" are fine with it. Anything is possible.

Exactly what did Trump supporters expect? That one wild, vulgar billionaire non-politician would be able to change the system by himself?

Did you really think that Republican swampers were just going to bend over for him after he personally insulted them time after time? That the media would instantly acquiesce because they'd be so intimidated, or because they'd develop some overnight objectivity? That the Democrats would cower in the corner, licking their wounds for a few decades?

Seriously, lay it out: What were you expecting?
.

A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step ...

 

[Lastamender]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

I think they, and we...just want an investigation. Kinda like you guys did wit Benghazi...or...were you corrupt to the core too?

Except that Benghazi was an actual thing, with actual fuck ups and actual lying. This is total bull shit.

In order for your comparison to work, they would have had to hold a hearing to find out if anyone died, or if there even was an attack at Benghazi.

Hate to disappoint you but the Russian interference in our elections was an actual thing.

No one has to die to confirm reality or make something serious.

You guys are just trying to find excuses.

Name one actual thing that affected the vote.

Whether it affected voting choices is unknown, unknowable and irrelevent.

Not to mention, not the point.

What is the point they look until they can impeach Trump while ignoring real criminals and what I call subversion being they are the culprits themselves.

 

[eagle1462010]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

I think they, and we...just want an investigation. Kinda like you guys did wit Benghazi...or...were you corrupt to the core too?

Except that Benghazi was an actual thing, with actual fuck ups and actual lying. This is total bull shit.

In order for your comparison to work, they would have had to hold a hearing to find out if anyone died, or if there even was an attack at Benghazi.

Hate to disappoint you but the Russian interference in our elections was an actual thing.

No one has to die to confirm reality or make something serious.

You guys are just trying to find excuses.

Name one actual thing that affected the vote.

Whether it affected voting choices is unknown, unknowable and irrelevent.

Not to mention, not the point.

They have already found the cyber hacking team and companies associated with the hacking..........as a result they expelled ambassadors staff, a specific group of people NAMED that were russian, and expelled Russian companies.......further more they put sanctions against Russia as a result...................

A total of 5 eo's were ordered under Obama...........4 related to Crimea and the Ukraine and 1 associated to Cyber crime................

Now, they have increased these sanctions under the new law.............have they found more of them thar RUSSIANs that they didn't catch the first time............or are they on a FISHING EXPEDITION to try to frame Trump.............

So far no evidence has been presented to say Trump colluded to get them to do this.........so now that portion is kinda washed away trying to say he OBSTRUCTED JUSTICE..................

This is a political attack by the Dems and Establishment from both sides to prevent Trump from fulfilling his promises, and nothing more.

 

[beagle9]

Except that Benghazi was an actual thing, with actual fuck ups and actual lying. This is total bull shit.

In order for your comparison to work, they would have had to hold a hearing to find out if anyone died, or if there even was an attack at Benghazi.

Hate to disappoint you but the Russian interference in our elections was an actual thing.

No one has to die to confirm reality or make something serious.

You guys are just trying to find excuses.

Name one actual thing that affected the vote.

Whether it affected voting choices is unknown, unknowable and irrelevent.

Not to mention, not the point.

. Y'all keep changing your story like a bad pair of underwear. Are you all ever gonna quit crapping your britches yet ?

What have I changed?

. Um didn't y'all say that Trump won because Hillary was undermined by the Russians and Trump cullusion ? Yet you say "whether it affected voting choices is unknown, unknowable, and irrelevant". What changed ? Oh so the cullusion story didn't stick, so that's irrelevant now eh ?

 

[toobfreak]

Intent. There was none. You saying that this doesn't matter is pointless. It obviously mattwrs.

Try again Ace. Just for starters, and this is by no means inclusive, have a look at US Code Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 37 §793(f) Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information. Like I said, this one is just one of maybe a dozen that could apply to Hillary. If you read it, you will see that it says "through gross negligence." There is nothing saying you have to have intent. Jame Comey said she was utterly careless, or something to that effect.

"The actual law has no intent component". Where do you get shit like that?

Like I said above. That "shit" is US Law.

She admitted her error. She withstood the hearings. She didn't lie about what had occurred. No cover up.

She did all of that after:

A). Her secret server was accidentally found out by investigating Podesta I believe. Had that never occurred, she never would have admitted to anything.
B). That she admitted to what she was caught red handed with, doesn't count for anything. She didn't withstand anything, Comey simply refused to prosecute her. Of course she lied and covered up. She didn't admit to anything until she knew she could hide the facts any longer. Your "reasoning" is incredibly obtuse and dismissive!

If Hillary had stabbed someone, what would your argument be then? That she didn't kill him? That she didn't make the knife? That she slipped and fell into him coughing? That people get stabbed in Harlem all the time and don't get caught? You people just amaze me at the lengths you will twist the facts then feign innocence or worse, call OTHERS idiots.

 

[Indeependent]

PredFan , let's say this is all true. Let's even say that the Republican members of "the swamp" are fine with it. Anything is possible.

Exactly what did Trump supporters expect? That one wild, vulgar billionaire non-politician would be able to change the system by himself?

Did you really think that Republican swampers were just going to bend over for him after he personally insulted them time after time? That the media would instantly acquiesce because they'd be so intimidated, or because they'd develop some overnight objectivity? That the Democrats would cower in the corner, licking their wounds for a few decades?

Seriously, lay it out: What were you expecting?
.

I expect Trump to support a new crop of candidates that can't be bribed.

 

[toobfreak]

"Investigating" Comey for nonsense that youve read on the internet is not part of Mueller's mandate.

And no one is history has ever been charged with a crime for what Hillary did. Spillage happens every day.

Actually they have, and in fact there is one Navy sailor sitting in jail right now for doing significantly less. You are factually wrong.

No, I'm not. I discussed the sailor I assume you're talking about a few posts ago.

He did not do "significantly less", and the context of the case makes it clear that his case and Hillary's are legally unrelated.

She specifically violated the law as regards the handling of secure data. This is not arguable. That is a felony as laid out by comey in his testimony to Congress. He is the person, and singular in his interpretation, who decided that intent had to be a component of the crime. The actual law has no intent component. As I said, you are factually wrong.

Intent. There was none. You saying that this doesn't matter is pointless. It obviously mattwrs.

"The actual law has no intent component". Where do you get shit like that?

She admitted her error. She withstood the hearings. She didn't lie about what had occurred. No cover up.

No, it doesn't. The law doesn't have an intent component. It is quite simply if you do "X", you have committed a felony. hillary DID "X". Thus she committed a felony. Add to that the fact that she was required to read a handbook that deals with the handling of secure data, and she doesn't have the old "I didn't know" defense either. She is ASSUMED to know because she was required, as a condition of her job, to read the book.

She has zero defense.

Actually on her first day on the job, she has to sign a document swearing that she is aware of all statutes regarding the handling of sensitive information and that she must take every effort to protect it and assumes all responsibility. She is the SECRETARY of the State Department! There is no one above her than the POTUS!

And "assuming responsibility" does not mean merely saying: "I assume all responsibility," it means being subject to the terms, conditions, fines and penalties of the law! Wouldn't it be nice if I could wreck into someone, steal from their house, then in court say: "Judge, I ASSUME ALL RESPONSIBILITY." And the judge says: "Good! Now that we have that settled, CASE DISMISSED!

I swear, some of the arguments on this board are on the level of a 5 year old! And they make them with a straight face!

 

[Flopper]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

A grand jury always favors the prosecutor regardless of where it is convened or who the jurors are. Usually, there is no judge. The court is more like a small college class room. The prosecutor is the teacher and runs the show and jurors ask questions as students might. Someone once said, consider the grand jury as a part of the prosecutors team.

The purpose of the grand jury is not to determine guilt or innocence, but to decide whether there is probable cause to prosecute someone for a felony crime. The grand jury hears evidence presented by the prosecutor. It uses subpoenas to gather evidence. It can subpoena documents, physical evidence, and witnesses to testify. This is one of it's most valuable tools. An FBI agent may ask you to make a statement and you can tell him to go fly a kite. You can't ignore a grand jury summons and lying to a grand jury is a felony.

This grand jury may well be just a tool Mueller is using to gather evidence. The prosecutor may not ask for an indictment immediately or possibly none at all or he may ask for an indictment of one person and others could be added or dropped.

Mueller, might be happy to have a trial jury that favors him but he will not want a closed minded grand jury because he will be using them to determine if he has a case he can take to trial and also to ask questions to uncover truth. If there's a problem in the case, he needs to find out from the grand jury, not at the trial.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Please stop the comparison with Benghazi. That was an investigation about Benghazi. The investigation into trump will not be about Russian collusion, because there is none or it would have been outed by now. So as every knowledgeable pundit has stated this investigation will morph into anything that can be investigated to make trump look bad.

Furthermore, even a neutral source like Jonathan turley has said that the appointment of nothing but democratic lawyers calls into question mueller motives.

And what did I expect when trump was elected. American centric policies and a businessmans management of the economy. I did not expect a republican senate of spoiled lazy brats who delight in damaging our country and their party. I did not expect a deep state of treasonous bureaucrats. I did not expect so many people to care so little about America and so much about themselves.

 

[Flopper]

The Swamp doesn't have the stones to impeach Trump, here let me laugh in their general direction

You realize, Trump definition of the swamp is now the people he hired.

 

[westwall]

1. Of course Comey and Mueller know each other - they've been working together for nearly 20 years. They're also both registered republicans (or in Comey's case, was), both have impeccable credentials and respect from both sides of the aisle, and finally, Comey is not a subject of Muellers investigation.

2. 8 out of the 15 lawyers Mueller has hired were Hillary supporters. That's as accurate a slice of the American population that Mueller could have come up with.

This seems to be ignored.

LOL

Democratic DONORS to the Democratic Party an accurate slice ..........LMAO

Get real folks............they donate freaking money.............so I'll laugh at your posts.

What was the political make up of the Benghazi investigators? How about Whitewater?

People can and do, do a professional ethical job regardless of their political affiliations. They can only take this as far as there is EVIDENCE to support it.

Benghazi was bi-partisan, Whitewhater I am not sure what the makeup was.

Because in Whitewater no one questioned the ability of the people to do the job in a professional manner. Now suddenly - it's questioned.

I think the fact that every single attorney that mueller has hired was against trump, and was for his opponent in the election, is a huge matter. Whitewater was nowhere near this obvious a unethical investigation. Starr wasted tons of money, but the one thing that he was able to prove is that the clintons are experts at destroying evidence.

 

[westwall]

There are people participating in this thread who think the Dems are stopping Trump from getting shit done. It is absolutely amazing.

They aren't. He has done quite a lot. They are though, obstructing him as much as they can. Even you can't deny that.

They are opposing him on policy. It's called loyal opposition.

And he hasn't done shit.

No, it's called party before country and it's the DNC mantra. And he has done quite a lot. We have already shown that in several threads here.

He's done nothing.

In six months he has fundamentally changed the way the VA is going to deal with the veterans in their care. obummer waved his hands and did nothing for eight years.

Next.

 

[busybee01]

Kangaroo court anyone? And what is the horrific crime against America the Liberals have been working so hard to manufacture? That Russia conspired with Trump to steal the election from Hillary? Even if they did, we would owe Russia a debt of gratitude.

It is no longer manufactured. We know of 1 instance where Trump's campaign was willing to conspire with a foreign agent. We don't owe the Russians any gratitude. What that says is that you are no different than Democrats. You just work the opposite side of the street.

 

[Flopper]

This seems to be ignored.

LOL

Democratic DONORS to the Democratic Party an accurate slice ..........LMAO

Get real folks............they donate freaking money.............so I'll laugh at your posts.

What was the political make up of the Benghazi investigators? How about Whitewater?

People can and do, do a professional ethical job regardless of their political affiliations. They can only take this as far as there is EVIDENCE to support it.

Benghazi was bi-partisan, Whitewhater I am not sure what the makeup was.

Because in Whitewater no one questioned the ability of the people to do the job in a professional manner. Now suddenly - it's questioned.

I think the fact that every single attorney that mueller has hired was against trump, and was for his opponent in the election, is a huge matter. Whitewater was nowhere near this obvious a unethical investigation. Starr wasted tons of money, but the one thing that he was able to prove is that the clintons are experts at destroying evidence.

When you're building a team of the best lawyers and prosecutors in the country, you don't ask how they voted. Why? Because it's irrelevant. Lawyers defend and prosecute people they like and people they don't, people they voted for and people they voted against. It's part of the job. However since most lawyers are democrats, most of Mueller's staff are democrats, however Mueller is a Republican as was Comey till a year or so ago when he declared he was independent voter.

 

[westwall]

LOL

Democratic DONORS to the Democratic Party an accurate slice ..........LMAO

Get real folks............they donate freaking money.............so I'll laugh at your posts.

What was the political make up of the Benghazi investigators? How about Whitewater?

People can and do, do a professional ethical job regardless of their political affiliations. They can only take this as far as there is EVIDENCE to support it.

Benghazi was bi-partisan, Whitewhater I am not sure what the makeup was.

Because in Whitewater no one questioned the ability of the people to do the job in a professional manner. Now suddenly - it's questioned.

I think the fact that every single attorney that mueller has hired was against trump, and was for his opponent in the election, is a huge matter. Whitewater was nowhere near this obvious a unethical investigation. Starr wasted tons of money, but the one thing that he was able to prove is that the clintons are experts at destroying evidence.

When you're building a team of the best lawyers and prosecutors in the country, you don't ask how they voted. Why? Because it's irrelevant. Lawyers defend and prosecute people they like and people they don't, people they voted for and people they voted against. It's part of the job. However since most lawyers are democrats, most of Mueller's staff are democrats, however Mueller is a Republican as was Comey till a year or so ago when he declared he was independent voter.

They are all political operatives. Every single one of them. It's a very easy check to see who they donated too. Do you not find it even slightly weird that there is not a single trump supporter in the group? Not one? I have to hand it to you progressives, you are amazingly uninterested in the world.

 

[westwall]

Kangaroo court anyone? And what is the horrific crime against America the Liberals have been working so hard to manufacture? That Russia conspired with Trump to steal the election from Hillary? Even if they did, we would owe Russia a debt of gratitude.

It is no longer manufactured. We know of 1 instance where Trump's campaign was willing to conspire with a foreign agent. We don't owe the Russians any gratitude. What that says is that you are no different than Democrats. You just work the opposite side of the street.

How exactly is it a conspiracy when there is no crime? It is not a crime to collude with anyone. If it were, ted kennedy would have been arrested when he colluded with the russians during his presidential campaign.

 

[Nia88]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

Who hired Mueller? Republicans, including Trump were raving about him. Mueller is actually doing the job he was hired to do and now Trump doesn't like him, because he's scared Mueller might expose him. If there's nothing to hide, why is Trump so defensive.

If Mueller is so shady, then why didn't republicans vet him better?

Republicans run the three branches if government, but you want to somehow link this back to Obama, Hilary and the democrats.

 

[eagle1462010]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

Who hired Mueller? Republicans, including Trump were raving about him. Mueller is actually doing the job he was hired to do and now Trump doesn't like him, because he's scared Mueller might expose him. If there's nothing to hide, why is Trump so defensive.

If Mueller is so shady, then why didn't republicans vet him better?

Republicans run the three branches if government, but you want to somehow link this back to Obama, Hilary and the democrats.

2 Parties same result...............The establishment are those who whore themselves out to Lobbyist and political donors and they are from both parties. They are not happy that Trump is not playing by the usual rules.............they pay him and he does their bidding................

So owning all branches of gov't ................hardly the case.

 

[PredFan]

First, Mueller, a good friend of the fired Comey, is appointed to lead the investigation into the non-existent collusion, then he loads his staff with 0bama sycophants and Hillary supporters, now he wants to convene a Grand Jury, and he wants it to sit in DC. Where you basically can't find a Trump supporter.

This has always been my only fear about this. The left, as we all know is corrupt to the core. They would watch this country burn rather than let 0bamas disastrous legacy get reversed. Party before country with them and it isn't even close.

Would it surprise anyone at all if they didn't completely make shit up?

A grand jury always favors the prosecutor regardless of where it is convened or who the jurors are. Usually, there is no judge. The court is more like a small college class room. The prosecutor is the teacher and runs the show and jurors ask questions as students might. Someone once said, consider the grand jury as a part of the prosecutors team.

The purpose of the grand jury is not to determine guilt or innocence, but to decide whether there is probable cause to prosecute someone for a felony crime. The grand jury hears evidence presented by the prosecutor. It uses subpoenas to gather evidence. It can subpoena documents, physical evidence, and witnesses to testify. This is one of it's most valuable tools. An FBI agent may ask you to make a statement and you can tell him to go fly a kite. You can't ignore a grand jury summons and lying to a grand jury is a felony.

This grand jury may well be just a tool Mueller is using to gather evidence. The prosecutor may not ask for an indictment immediately or possibly none at all or he may ask for an indictment of one person and others could be added or dropped.

Mueller, might be happy to have a trial jury that favors him but he will not want a closed minded grand jury because he will be using them to determine if he has a case he can take to trial and also to ask questions to uncover truth. If there's a problem in the case, he needs to find out from the grand jury, not at the trial.

I fully understand what a GJ is. The reason he wants it stacked in his favor is because he doesn't want a GJ to tell him he has no case. Mueller isn't like a real DA in that there are no repercussions if gen takes a case to trial without a shred of evidence. He may not even care if it get started to trial stall as long as the GJ decides in his favor.