The Homosexual Agenda, The aclu, And Your Children...

[AllieBaba]

When I read things like that, my stomach turns. Matthew Shepard was savagely beaten by a couple of animals whose manhood got threatened by a gay guy. And being gay is NOT a choice. You couldn't make yourself lust after a man any more than I could force myself to lust after a woman. Nor can you force yourself to lust after someone who doesn't do it for you. Given that our sexuality is a basic part of who we are, short of becoming celibate (which no one should have to do) we are who we are... for whatever the reasons.

We are responsible for our actions. We are responsible NOT to victimize someone else. One of the first things battered women have to learn in order to go on with their lives is that no... you didn't get beaten because dinner was late to the table. There is nothing you can do, short of violence, to make someone act violently toward you. If they act violently that's on THEM... not the victim.

This is where I part ways seriously with liberals. You, Jillian, don't know any better than anybody else what people were thinking or what their motives were. And you can say being gay is not a choice, but that doesn't make it so. In fact, there are huge segments of the gay population who get up in arms about this. They insist it IS a choice, and that should have nothing to do with anything.
People can program themselves to lust after dogs. So your comment about not being able to make yourself be attracted to the same sex is a fluff statement, also with no basis in fact or even reality.
We do have control over who we are. How you can say that those guys are accountable for their behavior, but because that kid was gay, he is not, obviously causes some logistical problems.
He went into a rough bar, in a town where everybody knew he was gay. That was a BAAAAD choice on his part. But not illegal.
They killed him. That was a BAAAD choice on their part, which is also illegal.

But spare me the "poor little gay peeps, they can't control themselves, they're all angels" bit. It's juvenile. Just as it's juvenile that you keep re-iterating over and over that being gay is not a choice when nobody else in the learned community is saying that. Which you know.

 

[jillian]

Actually, having had the enlightening experience of sitting in with a group of women who were incarcerated at Bedford Hills because they killed their batterers, and having known some of the finest battered women's activists that one could hope to meet (and luckily never having been victimized myself) I DO know that no one is responsible for another's unjustified violence toward them any more that Jews were responsible for the pogroms or the Holocaust; any more than blacks were responsible for the violence of the KKK'ers and their "patriotic" lynchings.

Or do you hate gays so much that you think they deserve the death penalty?

 

[jillian]

That's exactly the point I was making and the correlation I was pointing out to allowing a homosexual agenda to be taught in public schools, but not religious ones.

Allow one, allow the other. Otherwise, keep it at home.

Riiiiiight...stay in the closet... or at least go to an airport restroom, huh?

Why don't YOU closet YOUR behavior? Or have you never flirted with men?

 

[AllieBaba]

Actually, having had the experience of being battered myself, also having the experience of working with battered women as a reporter, a volunteer, human services worker, and addictions counselor, I would say you're full of crap. I never said (in fact, I pretty much said exactly the opposite) that the poor kid was to blame for being killed. I said he made a bad choice. Which he did.

And you're off the mark about my hatred, as well. I've had many very good gay friends, starting with one of my closest friends in grade through high school, and ending with two of my roommates when I got older. I don't hate gays, never said I did. That's your own hatred of anyone with a different opinion (and armed with better facts) than your own shining through.

And it shines for everyone to see.

 

[jillian]

Actually, having had the experience of being battered myself, also having the experience of working with battered women as a reporter, a volunteer, human services worker, and addictions counselor, I would say you're full of crap. I never said (in fact, I pretty much said exactly the opposite) that the poor kid was to blame for being killed. I said he made a bad choice. Which he did.

And you're off the mark about my hatred, as well. I've had many very good gay friends, starting with one of my closest friends in grade through high school, and ending with two of my roommates when I got older. I don't hate gays, never said I did. That's your own hatred of anyone with a different opinion (and armed with better facts) than your own shining through.

And it shines for everyone to see.

Gee... you're just wonderful. The only choice he made was approaching a man who interested him.

Go ask your "friend" if he would have chosen to be gay or hetero... for someone who claims such a love of gays, you have absolutely no understanding of them. You must go for the Sen. Craig-type gays... the ones that are married to their beards and pretend to be hetero so you don't have to look at them and acknowledge that they're alive.

I absolutely hate prejudice and fear. They're dangerous.

As for hating people who disagree with me. Not in the least. I just hate ignorance. Some of my best family members are conservative. And, if you weren't such a putz, you'd see I'm not exactly off the scales to the left. But... putting people in little boxes and being smug and self-aggrandizing seems to be your modus operandi. Then you get all huffy puffy when it's handed back to you in spades and you're shown to be full of it.

I'm sorry you were battered, by the way. No one deserves that.

 

[AllieBaba]

Gee... you're just wonderful. The only choice he made was approaching a man who interested him.

Go ask your "friend" if he would have chosen to be gay or hetero... for someone who claims such a love of gays, you have absolutely no understanding of them. You must go for the Sen. Craig-type gays... the ones that are married to their beards and pretend to be hetero so you don't have to look at them and acknowledge that they're alive.

I absolutely hate prejudice and fear. They're dangerous.

As for hating people who disagree with me. Not in the least. I just hate ignorance. Some of my best family members are conservative. And, if you weren't such a putz, you'd see I'm not exactly off the scales to the left. But... putting people in little boxes and being smug and self-aggrandizing seems to be your modus operandi. Then you get all huffy puffy when it's handed back to you in spades and you're shown to be full of it.

I'm sorry you were battered, by the way. No one deserves that.

You're a self-righteous twit. Since there's nothing in that post to respond to, I won't.

Except...the hatred is obvious. But it's not hatred of ignorance. It's the hatred of anyone who challenges your own high opinion of yourself.

 

[Shogun]

Read the studies, and you'll come to the same conclusion that every egghead at the universities, including geneticists, has come to.

Try actually researching stuff instead of just going on things you hear from your heroes, who didn't even know the studies were out there before they started popping off.

considering your narrow application of logic and the refusal to consider that which just doesn't fit into your schema (the concept of ethnocentrism) I'm not sure you are any kind of authority in suggesting to others that they research stuff.

In case you haven't noticed IM the one giving you examples instead of name dropping some phantom study that may or may not even say what you keep suggesting.

Perhaps you should reconsider your expertise in what everybody will come to in their conclusions?


I didn't mean to scare you off by quoting the OT, by the way.. I thought you were big girl enough to handle quotes from the bible.. See, I can admit when Im wrong!

 

[Shogun]

Let's say discrimination, then. If you really want to quibble.

Way to tone down the rhetoric.

Too bad it took me spanking your hand before you thought to lay off the martyr routine.

Indeed, give me another jewel like "out of the closet christians".. that one was rich!

 

[AllieBaba]

considering your narrow application of logic and the refusal to consider that which just doesn't fit into your schema (the concept of ethnocentrism) I'm not sure you are any kind of authority in suggesting to others that they research stuff.

In case you haven't noticed IM the one giving you examples instead of name dropping some phantom study that may or may not even say what you keep suggesting.

Perhaps you should reconsider your expertise in what everybody will come to in their conclusions?


I didn't mean to scare you off by quoting the OT, by the way.. I thought you were big girl enough to handle quotes from the bible.. See, I can admit when Im wrong!

If you only knew how stupid you sound challenging studies you haven't even read. Because, as I told Jillian, if you had actually read them, you would have come to the same conclusion that every high thinker in the US and Canada (and now Spain) has come to.

 

[Shogun]

This is where I part ways seriously with liberals. You, Jillian, don't know any better than anybody else what people were thinking or what their motives were. And you can say being gay is not a choice, but that doesn't make it so. In fact, there are huge segments of the gay population who get up in arms about this. They insist it IS a choice, and that should have nothing to do with anything.
People can program themselves to lust after dogs. So your comment about not being able to make yourself be attracted to the same sex is a fluff statement, also with no basis in fact or even reality.
We do have control over who we are. How you can say that those guys are accountable for their behavior, but because that kid was gay, he is not, obviously causes some logistical problems.
He went into a rough bar, in a town where everybody knew he was gay. That was a BAAAAD choice on his part. But not illegal.
They killed him. That was a BAAAD choice on their part, which is also illegal.

But spare me the "poor little gay peeps, they can't control themselves, they're all angels" bit. It's juvenile. Just as it's juvenile that you keep re-iterating over and over that being gay is not a choice when nobody else in the learned community is saying that. Which you know.

Would you care to post your source or is this another fabricated phantom of an example?


Also, your empathy towards the VICTIM obviously depends on the victims sexuality. I'm betting that you would not expect the same cold sentiment if you were the one raped and beaten because of what you wore to wherever you decided to go. Indeed, very CHRISTIAN-like. You are a living, breathing chic tract testimony, lemme tellya.

 

[Shogun]

If you only knew how stupid you sound challenging studies you haven't even read. Because, as I told Jillian, if you had actually read them, you would have come to the same conclusion that every high thinker in the US and Canada (and now Spain) has come to.

If you only knew how stupid you look when name dropping some phantom study instead of posting a source and then having your debate opposition remind you that what you are trying to quote isn't even suggesting what you claim...

Indeed, if only.

 

[AllieBaba]

Would you care to post your source or is this another fabricated phantom of an example?


Also, your empathy towards the VICTIM obviously depends on the victims sexuality. I'm betting that you would not expect the same cold sentiment if you were the one raped and beaten because of what you wore to wherever you decided to go. Indeed, very CHRISTIAN-like. You are a living, breathing chic tract testimony, lemme tellya.

You're trying to read my mind. Jillian made the same mistake. I absolutely have sympathy for any victim of abuse, and certainly understand the semantics of abuse.

But I don't think being a victim PRECLUDES someone from making bad choices. Rather, bad choices can lead to victimization. Which is something we try to teach victims in counseling.

 

[jillian]

You're a self-righteous twit. Since there's nothing in that post to respond to, I won't.

Except...the hatred is obvious. But it's not hatred of ignorance. It's the hatred of anyone who challenges your own high opinion of yourself.

lol... get over yourself, girl. I know you have no answers and can't justify your hatred, but you really need to get a grip.

 

[Shogun]

Actually, having had the experience of being battered myself, also having the experience of working with battered women as a reporter, a volunteer, human services worker, and addictions counselor, I would say you're full of crap. I never said (in fact, I pretty much said exactly the opposite) that the poor kid was to blame for being killed. I said he made a bad choice. Which he did.

And you're off the mark about my hatred, as well. I've had many very good gay friends, starting with one of my closest friends in grade through high school, and ending with two of my roommates when I got older. I don't hate gays, never said I did. That's your own hatred of anyone with a different opinion (and armed with better facts) than your own shining through.

And it shines for everyone to see.

I guess then, according to your logic, you didn't make a good choice when you pissed off your abuser then, eh?


or, does that only apply to the gay folk?

 

[jillian]

If you only knew how stupid you look when name dropping some phantom study instead of posting a source and then having your debate opposition remind you that what you are trying to quote isn't even suggesting what you claim...

Indeed, if only.

pssssssst... we did check her phantom studies. they're real enough... they just don't say or mean what she says they do. that's why she's so cranky. But she likes thinking it's everyone else who's stupid and can't read or comprehend.

 

[AllieBaba]

If I look stupid saying things like that, keep in mind...you've said the same. Something to think of when you go to court. If you ever make it there.

 

[Shogun]

You're trying to read my mind. Jillian made the same mistake. I absolutely have sympathy for any victim of abuse, and certainly understand the semantics of abuse.

But I don't think being a victim PRECLUDES someone from making bad choices. Rather, bad choices can lead to victimization. Which is something we try to teach victims in counseling.

So, again, tell me what mistake YOU made when prompting YOUR abuse?

I'll wait.

 

[Shogun]

pssssssst... we did check her phantom studies. they're real enough... they just don't say or mean what she says they do. that's why she's so cranky. But she likes thinking it's everyone else who's stupid and can't read or comprehend.

Oh I know.. thats why I applauded you and Larkin. It seems like they all come into the boards swinging, doesn't it? EVERYONE is the expert until having to post their sources and evidence.

 

[Shogun]

If I look stupid saying things like that, keep in mind...you've said the same. Something to think of when you go to court. If you ever make it there.

ooohhhh. and INSULT..

oh my.. I haven't seen a desperate person being thrashed run to THOSE before!

 

[AllieBaba]

I guess then, according to your logic, you didn't make a good choice when you pissed off your abuser then, eh?


or, does that only apply to the gay folk?

Lol. You're obviously a real sensitive guy.
BTW, I made a truckload of bad choices, or I wouldn't have been with the SOB to begin with. That's the point, Einstein.

And Jillian isn't posting right now because she's busy sending me insulting private messages which are too juvenile for her to put up here.

Quite a cart and pony show.