The Homosexual Dilemma

[mdk]

And, after all of this, my statement still stands:

In every species, natures way is reproduction. If a body does not reproduce, it kills off its lineage. That is why, in nature, homosexuality has to be considered abnormal.

Humans are born with many types of problems. While these conditions are natural, they most assuredly are abnormal.

Mark

Lots of things are 'abnormal'- oral sex is abnormal by your definition- yet the majority of Americans experience it at some time in their life- some of us more than others.

Abnormal doesn't mean bad.

Except in the case of homophobes- homosexuals=abnormal-= bad.

It all boils down to what consenting adults do behind closed doors is their business - so why does the Gay machine insist on getting into everybody else faces ?

The very question this whole thread is about. And in over 75 pages, none of the hemorrhoids have been able to answer it.

Do you consider marriage "getting in everybody's faces"?

Yes. By normalizing and socially accepting a deviancy, it certainly is.

Mark

It doesn't seem to me you are being forced to accept anything. Gays are getting married and yet here you are railing against deviants and their marriage. You're just upset that society isn't buying your pearl clutching hyperbole anymore, not the public and not courts.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

You really should have researched further...

Psychiatry Giant Sorry for Backing Gay 'Cure'

And? My point was that some people have converted. Are you going to deny that? As for your link, if homosexuality is "ingrained", then I contend that every sexual deviancy is and that treatment should stop on all of them.

Homosexuality is not "special".

Mark

People can choose who to have sex with.

There is no evidence that people chose who to be attracted to.

Homosexuality is not 'special'- it is humans attracted to the same gender instead of the opposite gender.

No need to treat homosexuals special at all- just treat them without discrimination.

So if people don't choose what they're attracted to and should be able to shag whoever they're attracted to, why doesn't that also go for people who are attracted to children? I mean, who are you to say your homo love is right, but their pedo love is wrong?

Because one is between two consenting adults, and the other is between an adult and a child (who by definition is below the age of consent).

Who sets the age of consent? It was posted what the different ages of consent are by state. Why are they different?

They are different because all these numbers are arbitrary. There is no "right" or "wrong" age. Age is set by society using...nothing to base the number on.

Mark

They were set, as you point out, because the law needs a moment of demarcation, thus such is established for legal purposes. The age is set to protect children... the lowering of the age is designed to protect the pedophile.

In that the distinct perspectives are demonstrated...

That of the objective standard of the law... to serve justice.

And that of th subjective needs of the Ideological Left, to reject objectivity essential to the very concept of justice.

 

[GreenBean]

You really should have researched further...

Psychiatry Giant Sorry for Backing Gay 'Cure'

And? My point was that some people have converted. Are you going to deny that? As for your link, if homosexuality is "ingrained", then I contend that every sexual deviancy is and that treatment should stop on all of them.

Homosexuality is not "special".

Mark

People can choose who to have sex with.

There is no evidence that people chose who to be attracted to.

Homosexuality is not 'special'- it is humans attracted to the same gender instead of the opposite gender.

No need to treat homosexuals special at all- just treat them without discrimination.

So if people don't choose what they're attracted to and should be able to shag whoever they're attracted to, why doesn't that also go for people who are attracted to children? I mean, who are you to say your homo love is right, but their pedo love is wrong?

Because one is between two consenting adults, and the other is between an adult and a child (who by definition is below the age of consent).

Who sets the age of consent? It was posted what the different ages of consent are by state. Why are they different?

They are different because all these numbers are arbitrary. There is no "right" or "wrong" age. Age is set by society using...nothing to base the number on.

Mark

. Age is set by society ..

....And by manipulating society -you alter the social norms that evolved naturally out of basic Human nature - which is exactly what the Queer Militias are perpetrating.

.nothing to base the number on

The number in a sane modern society is based upon when it is anticipated a person -or the greatest number of persons -or average number [age] - where human beings reach full cognizance and ample wisdom to make "Adult" Choices.

In a Gay society that number [Age] would have little to do with intellect or wisdom - but everything to do with the size andcapacity of their anal and/or vaginal canals

 

[80zephyr]

"
"A family-run business went under because they chose not to bake a fucking cake for a gay wedding?
That's not only the Gay agenda at work, but the twisted brains of the Liberals who will not stand for dissent or disagreement"

That's the risk they took. I don't feel one bit of remorse for them. Did they go under only because gays stopped going there or did others stop going there or what happened? As a married 76 year old heterosexual man I fail to see how the homosexual agenda is of any threat to me.

I am sure people felt the same way about divorce. Until they had to pay welfare to raise children that statistically end up in a juvenile justice system in far greater numbers than those from a two parent household.

In society, almost every decision affects you. At 76, you should already know that.

Mark

 

[GreenBean]

Actually most people will tell you sexual orientation is not a choice. Scientists will tell you too. The fact that YOU believe you made a conscious choice leads me to suspect you are bisexual and simply denying part of your attractions.

I never made a choice to be attracted to the same gender, I just always was.

They don't care about science or reality in this thread. Just a lot of gay bashing, attempting to demonize gays as pedophiles, and so on. I am bored of this thread already.

Outside of this forum, the WBC, Neo Nazi groups, or the most die hard of church groups, same-sex marriage being 'wrong' is no longer an issue of the day.

I don't claim being gay makes someone a pedophile. I claim it's abnormal and deviant same as pedophilia.

Same sex marriage is wrong despite what you faggot lovers thinking.

Meh, and there are invisible pink unicorns and floating tea cups. Both are more real than a link between homosexuality and pedophilia.

Homosexuality and pedophilia ARE varying degrees of the same class of Dementia - Sexual Dysphoria

Uganda awaits.

 

[80zephyr]

And? My point was that some people have converted. Are you going to deny that? As for your link, if homosexuality is "ingrained", then I contend that every sexual deviancy is and that treatment should stop on all of them.

Homosexuality is not "special".

Mark

People can choose who to have sex with.

There is no evidence that people chose who to be attracted to.

Homosexuality is not 'special'- it is humans attracted to the same gender instead of the opposite gender.

No need to treat homosexuals special at all- just treat them without discrimination.

So if people don't choose what they're attracted to and should be able to shag whoever they're attracted to, why doesn't that also go for people who are attracted to children? I mean, who are you to say your homo love is right, but their pedo love is wrong?

Because one is between two consenting adults, and the other is between an adult and a child (who by definition is below the age of consent).

But isn't the "age of consent" just a social overlay, as Coyote said? Who are you to say they're love is wrong?

Age of consent is a social/cultural overlay. However - love is wrong when it damages a person. Pedophilia has been shown to be very damaging to children. Children do not have the mental maturity to consent. Adults do. No rights are unlimited.

So then, some states allow marriage at 15, others at 18.

Who's right?

Mark

 

[GreenBean]

You really should have researched further...

Psychiatry Giant Sorry for Backing Gay 'Cure'

And? My point was that some people have converted. Are you going to deny that? As for your link, if homosexuality is "ingrained", then I contend that every sexual deviancy is and that treatment should stop on all of them.

Homosexuality is not "special".

Mark

People can choose who to have sex with.

There is no evidence that people chose who to be attracted to.

Homosexuality is not 'special'- it is humans attracted to the same gender instead of the opposite gender.

No need to treat homosexuals special at all- just treat them without discrimination.

So if people don't choose what they're attracted to and should be able to shag whoever they're attracted to, why doesn't that also go for people who are attracted to children? I mean, who are you to say your homo love is right, but their pedo love is wrong?

They will use the "age of consent" as an excuse. The age of consent is nothing more than an arbitrary number society agrees on to set policy.

Sorta like when society deemed marriage was limited to one man and one woman.

See, its OK to change policy when you agree with it, not so much when you don't. They are simply "bigots" just like us, only their moral standards are a shade lower.

Mark

Yup...

But it's worse than that... they have for decades sought to play down the consequences of adult predation of children for sexual gratification.

Alfred Kinsey traveled the country to 'inform' local and state governments that the psychological consequences of molestation were no where near as harmful as had been believed... as long as such was manifest through a loving, caring interaction... and that often such was actually beneficial to the child.

It's some ridiculously sick shit...

Alfred Kinsey also produced troves of tainted ,biased and scientifically inaccurate studies that gay activists have been using for decades to effect court rulings - even though they have long since been discredited by REAL Science.

 

[80zephyr]

And? My point was that some people have converted. Are you going to deny that? As for your link, if homosexuality is "ingrained", then I contend that every sexual deviancy is and that treatment should stop on all of them.

Homosexuality is not "special".

Mark

People can choose who to have sex with.

There is no evidence that people chose who to be attracted to.

Homosexuality is not 'special'- it is humans attracted to the same gender instead of the opposite gender.

No need to treat homosexuals special at all- just treat them without discrimination.

So if people don't choose what they're attracted to and should be able to shag whoever they're attracted to, why doesn't that also go for people who are attracted to children? I mean, who are you to say your homo love is right, but their pedo love is wrong?

Because one is between two consenting adults, and the other is between an adult and a child (who by definition is below the age of consent).

But isn't the "age of consent" just a social overlay, as Coyote said? Who are you to say they're love is wrong?

Because it is sexually harassing minors

And? My point was that some people have converted. Are you going to deny that? As for your link, if homosexuality is "ingrained", then I contend that every sexual deviancy is and that treatment should stop on all of them.

Homosexuality is not "special".

Mark

People can choose who to have sex with.

There is no evidence that people chose who to be attracted to.

Homosexuality is not 'special'- it is humans attracted to the same gender instead of the opposite gender.

No need to treat homosexuals special at all- just treat them without discrimination.

So if people don't choose what they're attracted to and should be able to shag whoever they're attracted to, why doesn't that also go for people who are attracted to children? I mean, who are you to say your homo love is right, but their pedo love is wrong?

Because one is between two consenting adults, and the other is between an adult and a child (who by definition is below the age of consent).

Age of what? Oh yeah, that line we draw in the sand because it has to be drawn, but that's all it is, a line in the sand. Fuck five years older or five years younger and I can't be bothered to give a fuck, I have a life to lead.

No, it is a biological reality rather than a 'line in the sand'. Children have to go through puberty - and brain development takes even longer. At one stage of human civilization, such as the Middle Ages and earlier there were childhood marriages - but back then there was also a short life span.

You want to give scientific reasons for your beliefs? Who said puberty is that "line". In my scientific world,, it tells me that a penis is not designed to screw an asshole.

Why does your belief in science trump mine?

Mark

 

[GreenBean]

Actually most people will tell you sexual orientation is not a choice. Scientists will tell you too. The fact that YOU believe you made a conscious choice leads me to suspect you are bisexual and simply denying part of your attractions.

I never made a choice to be attracted to the same gender, I just always was.

They don't care about science or reality in this thread. Just a lot of gay bashing, attempting to demonize gays as pedophiles, and so on. I am bored of this thread already.

Outside of this forum, the WBC, Neo Nazi groups, or the most die hard of church groups, same-sex marriage being 'wrong' is no longer an issue of the day.

I don't claim being gay makes someone a pedophile. I claim it's abnormal and deviant same as pedophilia.

Same sex marriage is wrong despite what you faggot lovers thinking.

Meh, and there are invisible pink unicorns and floating tea cups. Both are more real than a link between homosexuality and pedophilia.

Homosexuality and pedophilia ARE varying degrees of the same class of Dementia - Sexual Dysphoria

Uganda awaits.

And I reiterate - Homosexuality and pedophilia ARE varying degrees of the same class of Dementia - Sexual Dysphoria

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

No rights are unlimited.

Very true... Rights are endowed to us by our Creator... and with each right comes the responsibility to not injure the means of another to exercise their own rights.

And in this we readily see that there is no right to injure another by encouraging them to engage in behavior which is diametrically opposed by their genetic composition, or to engage in pre-marital intercourse; wherein the foundation of raising children has not been established, or to murder the child which one conceives as a direct result of their own willful and wanton behavior.

All of which the Ideological Left erroneously hold up as: RIGHTS!

 

[hipeter924]

You really should have researched further...

Psychiatry Giant Sorry for Backing Gay 'Cure'

And? My point was that some people have converted. Are you going to deny that? As for your link, if homosexuality is "ingrained", then I contend that every sexual deviancy is and that treatment should stop on all of them.

Homosexuality is not "special".

Mark

People can choose who to have sex with.

There is no evidence that people chose who to be attracted to.

Homosexuality is not 'special'- it is humans attracted to the same gender instead of the opposite gender.

No need to treat homosexuals special at all- just treat them without discrimination.

So if people don't choose what they're attracted to and should be able to shag whoever they're attracted to, why doesn't that also go for people who are attracted to children? I mean, who are you to say your homo love is right, but their pedo love is wrong?

Because one is between two consenting adults, and the other is between an adult and a child (who by definition is below the age of consent).

Who sets the age of consent? It was posted what the different ages of consent are by state. Why are they different?

They are different because all these numbers are arbitrary. There is no "right" or "wrong" age. Age is set by society using...nothing to base the number on.

Mark

The tooth fairy, who do you think? Obviously psychologists, lawmakers, the community, and science experts with knowledge of human biology.

Age of consent is determined by:

- The biological age of those involved, this means when someone is ready in a biological sense to engage in sexual activity.

- Whether someone can realistically consent to sexual activity and be aware of the consequences of that activity.

- What the parents and wider community have agreed is the the acceptable point where someone get be involved sexually with another.

- If someone is intellectually developed enough to be able to realistically make their own decisions i.e. obviously from 0-15 that is quite difficult.

Age of Consent is then supplemented by laws on rape, child abuse, prostitution, and on the treatment of people with intellectual or physical disabilities.

 

[GreenBean]

People can choose who to have sex with.

There is no evidence that people chose who to be attracted to.

Homosexuality is not 'special'- it is humans attracted to the same gender instead of the opposite gender.

No need to treat homosexuals special at all- just treat them without discrimination.

So if people don't choose what they're attracted to and should be able to shag whoever they're attracted to, why doesn't that also go for people who are attracted to children? I mean, who are you to say your homo love is right, but their pedo love is wrong?

Because one is between two consenting adults, and the other is between an adult and a child (who by definition is below the age of consent).

But isn't the "age of consent" just a social overlay, as Coyote said? Who are you to say they're love is wrong?

Because it is sexually harassing minors

People can choose who to have sex with.

There is no evidence that people chose who to be attracted to.

Homosexuality is not 'special'- it is humans attracted to the same gender instead of the opposite gender.

No need to treat homosexuals special at all- just treat them without discrimination.

So if people don't choose what they're attracted to and should be able to shag whoever they're attracted to, why doesn't that also go for people who are attracted to children? I mean, who are you to say your homo love is right, but their pedo love is wrong?

Because one is between two consenting adults, and the other is between an adult and a child (who by definition is below the age of consent).

Age of what? Oh yeah, that line we draw in the sand because it has to be drawn, but that's all it is, a line in the sand. Fuck five years older or five years younger and I can't be bothered to give a fuck, I have a life to lead.

No, it is a biological reality rather than a 'line in the sand'. Children have to go through puberty - and brain development takes even longer. At one stage of human civilization, such as the Middle Ages and earlier there were childhood marriages - but back then there was also a short life span.

You want to give scientific reasons for your beliefs? Who said puberty is that "line". In my scientific world,, it tells me that a penis is not designed to screw an asshole.

Why does your belief in science trump mine?

Mark

Science is not about BELIEF - if you want to talk about Belief - get on Religious thread - SCIENCE is about FACT not OPINION . Do you understand the difference ?

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

And? My point was that some people have converted. Are you going to deny that? As for your link, if homosexuality is "ingrained", then I contend that every sexual deviancy is and that treatment should stop on all of them.

Homosexuality is not "special".

Mark

People can choose who to have sex with.

There is no evidence that people chose who to be attracted to.

Homosexuality is not 'special'- it is humans attracted to the same gender instead of the opposite gender.

No need to treat homosexuals special at all- just treat them without discrimination.

So if people don't choose what they're attracted to and should be able to shag whoever they're attracted to, why doesn't that also go for people who are attracted to children? I mean, who are you to say your homo love is right, but their pedo love is wrong?

Because one is between two consenting adults, and the other is between an adult and a child (who by definition is below the age of consent).

Who sets the age of consent? It was posted what the different ages of consent are by state. Why are they different?

They are different because all these numbers are arbitrary. There is no "right" or "wrong" age. Age is set by society using...nothing to base the number on.

Mark

The tooth fairy, who do you think? Obviously psychologists, lawmakers, the community, and science experts with knowledge of human biology.

Age of consent is determined by:

- The biological age of those involved, this means when someone is ready in a biological sense to engage in sexual activity. ..

And there ya have it folks...

So when "SCIENCE!" says that children are perfectly ready to engage in sexual behavior by adults who are skilled manipulators of children, for the purpose of pursuing your children and grand children for sexual gratification, YOU can take comfort in their opinions being superior to yours, because... THEY'RE SCIENTISTS!

Sadly, your means to do anything about it will be ZILCHED, as by then the skilled manipulators who pursue your children and Grandchildren for sexual gratification will be a legally protected 'minority' class. And your beatin' them into a bloody blister will be a 'hate' crime...

But don't believe me, believe the LAW, because IF the Skilled Manipulator child predator is also a professed homosexual, beating them because of their sexuality, already IS a hate crime.

 

[JakeStarkey]

kaz, heterosexuals create homosexuals.

They will never die out.

Even if it's a recessive gene, that once you get a gay/gay match you stop breeding, the number of gays will significantly drop. Think about it. Liberals never do think through your arguments. You can't, you would realize they don't make sense...

Genetics is probably part of it but not all of it....like left-handedness...or a artistic talent.

Kaz has just revealed he does not get Mendel and excessive gene pool as well as randomness as well as I am not a liberal any more than Kaz is anarchist.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Redfish is babbling.

Show me the scientific evidence that hetero and homo sexuality are not genetically determined.

Show evidence that is IS!

Don't have to because the sillies above in the thread flatly state there isn't. It's their obligation to show by objective evidence. If there is not any such, then the problem is relative, and the far social con right has clearly shown they have no objective argument for denying marriage equality.

When their puffed up pretend intelligentsia pops up out of the box and spew their nonsense, it is time to pass coffee and donuts and enjoy the burlesque.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Actually churches are not ever forced to marry someone they do not want to. At least on this planet.

Bull f*cking shit! Idaho city s ordinance tells pastors to marry gays or go to jail - Washington Times

That was a for-profit wedding chapel like those you see in Vegas. You DID know that, right?

PASTORS.

For Profit Business.

You don't seem to get that ALL PASTORS were being threatened, so you're wrong, and like any stubborn Leftist, you can't admit when you're wrong because you'd never stop. That's a dangerous combination, incorrigibility and ignorance, and you model it well.

Pastors are not threatened at all.

For-profit marriage businesses will be closed.

Different thing altogether.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Show evidence that there IS!

Don't have to because the sillies above in the thread flatly state there isn't. ...

YOU... are an imbecile.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Show evidence that there IS!

Don't have to because the sillies above in the thread flatly state there isn't. ... "Don't have to because the sillies above in the thread flatly state there isn't. It's their obligation to show by objective evidence. If there is not any such, then the problem is relative, and the far social con right has clearly shown they have no objective argument for denying marriage equality.

When their puffed up pretend intelligentsia pops up out of the box and spew their nonsense, it is time to pass coffee and donuts and enjoy the burlesque."

YOU... are an imbecile.

(1) I put in above what you left out that I had wrote (italics). Rather cheesy of you.

(2) You are not very smart but far too confident in your limited abilities.

(3) You, Where R My Keys, are so typical of the social con far right.

 

[Seawytch]

Why are you asking gays that just want exactly what you enjoy? Ask your wife.

Yes, you keep reminding us gays aren't ready for full marriage, you can't disagree with each other. In heterosexual marriage, that happens all the time.

I never said you can't disagree. We know you're the reluctant hypocrite. That's not what I said. Instead of asking gays why they need "government validation", ask your wife why she needs it. She can answer your questions and you'll actually maybe believe the answers from her.

12 Reasons Marriage Equality Matters

That's exactly what I just addressed. I've addressed it repeatedly. She doesn't agree with me. She knows what I think about government marriage. She knows I oppose it. She is fully aware of it. She disagrees with me. Why would I continue to ask a question that was asked and answered? I've told you this a bunch of times. What is wrong with you that you can't grasp that?

That's my point, you keep saying you wouldn't give it up. Ask again, and again, and again. I'm not changing my mind, she's not changing her mind. That happens in heterosexual marriages and the marriage can go on just fine. We don't have to agree on everything. When you reach that point, then you will be closer to gay marriage being equivalent to straight marriage. You must just be a joy to live with having to be agreed with on everything, or at least told you're right.

Disagreement happens in all marriage, you're not special. We all disagree and we all compromise. You've compromised on civil marriage, yes we get it and not arguing that. I'm saying stop asking us the questions your wife obviously has the answers to. Stop asking gays why they want to be married since she can answer your questions.

Her reasons have nothing to do with gay government marriage. Even if they did, why would it make sense to me? We just disagree. We understand each other's views just fine. We just disagree with them. It happens. And she gets her way. That usually happens too.

Civil Marriage is Civil Marriage. Her reasons for wanting a "gubmit" marriage is the same reason gays have for wanting it...and for all the reasons that were listed here.

12 Reasons Marriage Equality Matters

You have your answer, you can stop asking why gays want to be married, married guy.

 

[initforme]

"Then obviously - you don't give a rats ass about any Children, Grandchildren and future generations you produced."

Ok then. So two homosexuals get married. My kids grew up, got married, had kids of their own. I now have grandkids. Those grandkids are somehow in danger how? Please explain....."

As a lifelong Christian, explain how this is a threat to me..