The Imaginary Greatness of FDR

[CrusaderFrank]

Gee, 7.5% when Reagan entered office and 5.30% when he left. Yeah, he really sucked I guess.
Inflation was 10.35% when he entered office and 4.67% when he left.
What a failure! He didn't even kill 416,000 U.S. soldiers defeating the USSR, unlike Roosevelt.
Facts really do suck when they show what a simp you are, right?
Amazing what partisans can do with statistics.

Roosevelt killed 416,000 U.S troops defeating the Soviet Union? That's a new one.

FDR must of been pretty great then. According to Frank, he came into office with a 24.1% unemployment, by 1939 it was at 17.2% but he even was able to get it down to 14.3% at one point before that.

So do you dare answer the "When did the greatness start" question?

 

[The Rabbi]

Gee, 7.5% when Reagan entered office and 5.30% when he left. Yeah, he really sucked I guess.
Inflation was 10.35% when he entered office and 4.67% when he left.
What a failure! He didn't even kill 416,000 U.S. soldiers defeating the USSR, unlike Roosevelt.
Facts really do suck when they show what a simp you are, right?
Amazing what partisans can do with statistics.

Roosevelt killed 416,000 U.S troops defeating the Soviet Union? That's a new one.

FDR must of been pretty great then. According to Frank, he came into office with a 24.1% unemployment, by 1939 it was at 17.2% but he even was able to get it down to 14.3% at one point before that.

So do you dare answer the "When did the greatness start" question?

Juniorbert would fall over dead if he actually gave an answer that was factually correct as well as responsive to the question asked.

 

[Gadawg73]

Most Republicans of the day advised against lend leasing with Great Britain. They were closer to speaking German than they knew.
You folks need to ask Winnie about how great FDR was. But that is impossible for most of you ideologues here. You are headed the other direction.

 

[midcan5]

Timeline of the Great Depression

1925

* The top tax rate is lowered to 25 percent - the lowest top rate in the eight decades since World War I.

1928

* Between May 1928 and September 1929, the average prices of stocks will rise 40 percent. The boom is largely artificial.

1929

* Herbert Hoover becomes President.

* Annual per-capita income is $750. More than half of all Americans are living below a minimum subsistence level.

* Backlog of business inventories grows three times larger than the year before.

* Recession begins in August, two months before the stock market crash. During this two month period, production will decline at an annual rate of 20 percent, wholesale prices at 7.5 percent, and personal income at 5 percent.

* Stock market crash begins October 24. Investors call October 29 Black Tuesday. Losses for the month will total $16 billion, an astronomical sum in those days.

1930

* By February, the Federal Reserve has cut the prime interest rate from 6 to 4 percent. Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon announces that the Fed will stand by as the market works itself out: 'Liquidate labor, liquidate real estate... values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wreck from less-competent people'.

* The Smoot-Hawley Tariff passes on June 17. With imports forming only 6 percent of the GNP, the 40 percent tariffs work out to an effective tax of only 2.4 percent per citizen. Even this is compensated for by the fact that American businesses are no longer investing in Europe, but keeping their money stateside. The consensus of modern economists is that the tariff made only a minor contribution to the Great Depression in the U.S., but a major one in Europe.

* Supreme Court rules that the monopoly U.S. Steel does not violate anti-trust laws as long as competition exists, no matter how negligible.

* The GNP falls 9.4 percent from the year before. The unemployment rate climbs from 3.2 to 8.7 percent.

1931

* No major legislation is passed addressing the Depression.

* The GNP falls another 8.5 percent; unemployment rises to 15.9 percent.

1932

* This and the next year are the worst years of the Great Depression. For 1932, GNP falls a record 13.4 percent; unemployment rises to 23.6 percent.

* Industrial stocks have lost 80 percent of their value since 1930.

* 10,000 banks have failed since 1929, or 40 percent of the 1929 total.

* GNP has also fallen 31 percent since 1929.

* Over 13 million Americans have lost their jobs since 1929.

* International trade has fallen by two-thirds since 1929.

Congress passes the Federal Home Loan Bank Act and the Glass-Steagall Act of 1932.

* Top tax rate is raised from 25 to 63 percent.

* Popular opinion considers Hoover's measures too little too late. Franklin Roosevelt easily defeats Hoover in the fall election. Democrats win control of Congress.

1933

* Roosevelt inaugurated; begins 'First 100 Days'; of intensive legislative activity.

* A third banking panic occurs in March. Roosevelt declares a Bank Holiday; closes financial institutions to stop a run on banks.

* Alarmed by Roosevelt's plan to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, a group of millionaire businessmen, led by the Du Pont and J.P. Morgan empires, plans to overthrow Roosevelt with a military coup and install a fascist government modelled after Mussolini's regime in Italy. The businessmen try to recruit General Smedley Butler, promising him an army of 500,000, unlimited financial backing and generous media spin control. The plot is foiled when Butler reports it to Congress.

* Congress authorizes creation of the Agricultural Adjustment Administration, the Civilian Conservation Corps, the Farm Credit Administration, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Federal Emergency Relief Administration, the National Recovery Administration, the Public Works Administration and the Tennessee Valley Authority.

* Congress passes the Emergency Banking Bill, the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, the Farm Credit Act, the National Industrial Recovery Act and the Truth-in-Securities Act.
* Roosevelt does much to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, but is concerned with a balanced budget. He later rejects Keynes' advice to begin heavy deficit spending.

* The free fall of the GNP is significantly slowed; it dips only 2.1 percent this year. Unemployment rises slightly, to 24.9 percent.

1934

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Timeline of the Great Depression

1925

* The top tax rate is lowered to 25 percent - the lowest top rate in the eight decades since World War I.

1928

* Between May 1928 and September 1929, the average prices of stocks will rise 40 percent. The boom is largely artificial.

1929

* Herbert Hoover becomes President.

* Annual per-capita income is $750. More than half of all Americans are living below a minimum subsistence level.

* Backlog of business inventories grows three times larger than the year before.

* Recession begins in August, two months before the stock market crash. During this two month period, production will decline at an annual rate of 20 percent, wholesale prices at 7.5 percent, and personal income at 5 percent.

* Stock market crash begins October 24. Investors call October 29 Black Tuesday. Losses for the month will total $16 billion, an astronomical sum in those days.

1930

* By February, the Federal Reserve has cut the prime interest rate from 6 to 4 percent. Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon announces that the Fed will stand by as the market works itself out: 'Liquidate labor, liquidate real estate... values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wreck from less-competent people'.

* The Smoot-Hawley Tariff passes on June 17. With imports forming only 6 percent of the GNP, the 40 percent tariffs work out to an effective tax of only 2.4 percent per citizen. Even this is compensated for by the fact that American businesses are no longer investing in Europe, but keeping their money stateside. The consensus of modern economists is that the tariff made only a minor contribution to the Great Depression in the U.S., but a major one in Europe.

* Supreme Court rules that the monopoly U.S. Steel does not violate anti-trust laws as long as competition exists, no matter how negligible.

* The GNP falls 9.4 percent from the year before. The unemployment rate climbs from 3.2 to 8.7 percent.

1931

* No major legislation is passed addressing the Depression.

* The GNP falls another 8.5 percent; unemployment rises to 15.9 percent.

1932

* This and the next year are the worst years of the Great Depression. For 1932, GNP falls a record 13.4 percent; unemployment rises to 23.6 percent.

* Industrial stocks have lost 80 percent of their value since 1930.

* 10,000 banks have failed since 1929, or 40 percent of the 1929 total.

* GNP has also fallen 31 percent since 1929.

* Over 13 million Americans have lost their jobs since 1929.

* International trade has fallen by two-thirds since 1929.

Congress passes the Federal Home Loan Bank Act and the Glass-Steagall Act of 1932.

* Top tax rate is raised from 25 to 63 percent.

* Popular opinion considers Hoover's measures too little too late. Franklin Roosevelt easily defeats Hoover in the fall election. Democrats win control of Congress.

1933

* Roosevelt inaugurated; begins 'First 100 Days'; of intensive legislative activity.

* A third banking panic occurs in March. Roosevelt declares a Bank Holiday; closes financial institutions to stop a run on banks.

* Alarmed by Roosevelt's plan to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, a group of millionaire businessmen, led by the Du Pont and J.P. Morgan empires, plans to overthrow Roosevelt with a military coup and install a fascist government modelled after Mussolini's regime in Italy. The businessmen try to recruit General Smedley Butler, promising him an army of 500,000, unlimited financial backing and generous media spin control. The plot is foiled when Butler reports it to Congress.

* Congress authorizes creation of the Agricultural Adjustment Administration, the Civilian Conservation Corps, the Farm Credit Administration, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Federal Emergency Relief Administration, the National Recovery Administration, the Public Works Administration and the Tennessee Valley Authority.

* Congress passes the Emergency Banking Bill, the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, the Farm Credit Act, the National Industrial Recovery Act and the Truth-in-Securities Act.
* Roosevelt does much to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, but is concerned with a balanced budget. He later rejects Keynes' advice to begin heavy deficit spending.

* The free fall of the GNP is significantly slowed; it dips only 2.1 percent this year. Unemployment rises slightly, to 24.9 percent.

1934

And is "1934" your final answer?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

FDR supposedly is a Great President for "Getting us out of the Great Depression."

Here's the data set.

I see no greatness. I see 8 consecutive years of failure.

FDR US Unemployment 1932: 24.1%, 1933: 24.9, 1934: 21.7%, 1935: 20.1%, 1936: 16.9%, 1937: 14.3%, 1938: 19.0%, 1939: 17.2%. 8 year Average = 19.8%

What's so great about averaging 20% unemployment for 8 consecutive years?

FDR is considered a great president, not because of his policies but because of his leadership. He led the country through the greatest depression and military threat the country has ever faced. After the war ended we were the greatest military, industry, and financial power on earth. I think the president that led us through this deserves a lot a credit.

And that's why he's near the top of the list when people talk about "Great Presidents", and why he will always stay there.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

FDR supposedly is a Great President for "Getting us out of the Great Depression."

Here's the data set.

I see no greatness. I see 8 consecutive years of failure.

FDR US Unemployment 1932: 24.1%, 1933: 24.9, 1934: 21.7%, 1935: 20.1%, 1936: 16.9%, 1937: 14.3%, 1938: 19.0%, 1939: 17.2%. 8 year Average = 19.8%

What's so great about averaging 20% unemployment for 8 consecutive years?

FDR is considered a great president, not because of his policies but because of his leadership. He led the country through the greatest depression and military threat the country has ever faced. After the war ended we were the greatest military, industry, and financial power on earth. I think the president that led us through this deserves a lot a credit.

And that's why he's near the top of the list when people talk about "Great Presidents", and why he will always stay there.

His leadership? You mean you're totally surrending on the "New Deal ended the Great Depression" narrative?

You think inflicting a near 20% unemployment over 2 terms on the American people is great leadership?

I am giving FDR credit -- for prolonging the Depression.

 

[midcan5]

And is "1934" your final answer?

1934

* Congress authorizes creation of the Federal Communications Commission, the National Mediation Board and the Securities and Exchange Commission.

* The economy turns around: GNP rises 7.7 percent, and unemployment falls to 21.7 percent. A long road to recovery begins.

* Sweden becomes the first nation to recover fully from the Great Depression. It has followed a policy of Keynesian deficit spending.

1935

* The Supreme Court declares the National Recovery Administration to be unconstitutional.

* Congress authorizes creation of the Works Progress Administration, the National Labor Relations Board and the Rural Electrification Administration.

* Congress passes the Banking Act of 1935, the Emergency Relief Appropriation Act, the National Labor Relations Act, and the Social Security Act.

* Economic recovery continues: the GNP grows another 8.1 percent, and unemployment falls to 20.1 percent.

1936

* Top tax rate raised to 79 percent.

* Economic recovery continues: GNP grows a record 14.1 percent; unemployment falls to 16.9 percent.

1937

* The Supreme Court declares the National Labor Relations Board to be unconstitutional.

* Roosevelt seeks to enlarge and therefore liberalize the Supreme Court. This attempt not only fails, but outrages the public.

* Economists attribute economic growth so far to heavy government spending that is somewhat deficit. Roosevelt, however, fears an unbalanced budget and cuts spending for 1937. That summer, the nation plunges into another recession. Despite this, the yearly GNP rises 5.0 percent, and unemployment falls to 14.3 percent.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

And is "1934" your final answer?

1934

* Congress authorizes creation of the Federal Communications Commission, the National Mediation Board and the Securities and Exchange Commission.

* The economy turns around: GNP rises 7.7 percent, and unemployment falls to 21.7 percent. A long road to recovery begins.

* Sweden becomes the first nation to recover fully from the Great Depression. It has followed a policy of Keynesian deficit spending.

1935

* The Supreme Court declares the National Recovery Administration to be unconstitutional.

* Congress authorizes creation of the Works Progress Administration, the National Labor Relations Board and the Rural Electrification Administration.

* Congress passes the Banking Act of 1935, the Emergency Relief Appropriation Act, the National Labor Relations Act, and the Social Security Act.

* Economic recovery continues: the GNP grows another 8.1 percent, and unemployment falls to 20.1 percent.

1936

* Top tax rate raised to 79 percent.

* Economic recovery continues: GNP grows a record 14.1 percent; unemployment falls to 16.9 percent.

1937

* The Supreme Court declares the National Labor Relations Board to be unconstitutional.

* Roosevelt seeks to enlarge and therefore liberalize the Supreme Court. This attempt not only fails, but outrages the public.

* Economists attribute economic growth so far to heavy government spending that is somewhat deficit. Roosevelt, however, fears an unbalanced budget and cuts spending for 1937. That summer, the nation plunges into another recession. Despite this, the yearly GNP rises 5.0 percent, and unemployment falls to 14.3 percent.

So greatness is 21% unemployment...

and then 6 more years of almost 20% unemployment...

that's "Greatness"?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So Reagan averaged 7% unemployment that makes him 3 times great than FDR, right?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

FDR is considered a great president, not because of his policies but because of his leadership. He led the country through the greatest depression and military threat the country has ever faced. After the war ended we were the greatest military, industry, and financial power on earth. I think the president that led us through this deserves a lot a credit.

And that's why he's near the top of the list when people talk about "Great Presidents", and why he will always stay there.

His leadership? You mean you're totally surrending on the "New Deal ended the Great Depression" narrative?

You think inflicting a near 20% unemployment over 2 terms on the American people is great leadership?

I am giving FDR credit -- for prolonging the Depression.

You know, I'm pretty consistent on FDR and the depression. I'm willing to admit that he might not have solved the Depression (WWII did), and I would happily admit that many New Deal programs shouldn't have continued, or at the very least been handed off to the States, once the economy came back.

His leadership in WWII is pretty much why he'll stay in the list of all time greatest Presidents. His ability to inspire and keep motivating people in the Depression was legendary.

 

[mal]

FDR supposedly is a Great President for "Getting us out of the Great Depression."

Here's the data set.

I see no greatness. I see 8 consecutive years of failure.

FDR US Unemployment 1932: 24.1%, 1933: 24.9, 1934: 21.7%, 1935: 20.1%, 1936: 16.9%, 1937: 14.3%, 1938: 19.0%, 1939: 17.2%. 8 year Average = 19.8%

What's so great about averaging 20% unemployment for 8 consecutive years?

He didn't get us out of the Depression. FDR's domestic policies were an epic failure. He was a great war time president, however, and that is his rightful legacy.

So you Support a President Removing the 1st Amendment Rights of the People and the "Free Press"?...

You Support Internment of US Citizens?...

Carpet Bombing of Civilian Populaces?...

Just checking...

And I haven't Leveled an Opinion on the above, I'm just Wondering what your Take is on how we used to Win Wars.



peace...

 

[Dr.Traveler]

So you Support a President Removing the 1st Amendment Rights of the People and the "Free Press"?...

You Support Internment of US Citizens?...

Carpet Bombing of Civilian Populaces?...

Just checking...

And I haven't Leveled an Opinion on the above, I'm just Wondering what your Take is on how we used to Win Wars.



peace...

Can't speak for him, but I'm pretty old school when it comes to war. War is a terrible terrible thing. If your opponent can't be reasoned with any other way, then the right thing to do is to show him just how terrible war is by bringing as much force, power, and destruction as possible until they surrender unconditionally. Anything else just prolongs the violence.

First Ammendment Freedom of the Press has always, throughout American history. Presidents have a war to win and a country to save. If the Press is determined to undercut the war effort, then screw 'em. I think that Wilson basically screwed the Earth when he failed to let the Press report on the Great Influenza Outbreak, but in a wartime period how the Government deals with the Press changes.

The Japanese internment is probably FDR's greatest mistake, and it is certainly a black mark on US History. Probably the only outright worse offense in our history is the near genocide of the American Indians. I won't excuse him for that. Even the best and most well intentioned leaders screw up in terrible ways.

 

[newpolitics]

So, you're going to look the unemployment numbers during the greatest Depression in our history as the sole measure of his presidency? That's really, really idiotic if you think about it.

 

[johnrocks]

Partisan hacks are fun to mock, if one loves FDR, they should at least like Herbert Hoover...

Emergency Relief and Construction Act...Emergency Relief and Construction Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Federal Building Program...Wanted to increase by $400 million.

Division of Public Construction in 1929 was created in 12-29
Increased subsidies for ship construction ...
Signed Federal Home Loan Bank Act...Federal Home Loan Bank Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Increased farm subsidies with the Agricultural Marketing Act...Agriculture Marketing Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
financed the first large-scale federal public welfare program in American history. Emergency Relief and Construction Act of 1932
Raised tariffs



In fact Franklin D. Roosevelt blasted Hoover for spending and taxing too much and his VP running mate accused Hoover of leading the country down the path of socialism". http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,954983-4,00.html

Rexford Tugwell even remarked that the New Deal was New Deal "was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started", Rexford Tugwell was part of FDR's first "Brain (fart) Trust" Rexford Tugwell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And people who put Reagan on a pedastal perhaps should look at....

boosted import tariffs and trade restrictions.
cut marginal income tax rates, but he also raised Social Security taxes.
increased farm subsidies.
sent the federal debt through the roof.
Federal spending under Reagan grew from $678 billion to $1.14 trillion.
Reagan set the record for the highest average spending as a percent of GDP over his administration. (Obama may beat him.)

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So, you're going to look the unemployment numbers during the greatest Depression in our history as the sole measure of his presidency? That's really, really idiotic if you think about it.

What was it the New Deal was supposed to accomplish?

 

[newpolitics]

So, you're going to look the unemployment numbers during the greatest Depression in our history as the sole measure of his presidency? That's really, really idiotic if you think about it.

What was it the New Deal was supposed to accomplish?

It wasn't supposed to accomplish anything. It was an effort to make things better. You can't FIX a depression. That's ridiculous. Even if it didn't make employment numbers better, at least they fucking tried. They didn't have a crystal ball that said, "Do this New Deal and everything will be fine." You're an asshole for simply pointing to numbers and insulting a president who was in office during a very difficult time in our country. That is unpatriotic to me. I could point to so much shit republican leaders have done, but I am not going to back track almost a century simply to slander the other side. You're really pathetic dude.

 

[Liability]

So, you're going to look the unemployment numbers during the greatest Depression in our history as the sole measure of his presidency? That's really, really idiotic if you think about it.

What was it the New Deal was supposed to accomplish?

It wasn't supposed to accomplish anything. It was an effort to make things better. You can't FIX a depression. That's ridiculous. I could point to so much shit republican leaders have done, but I am not going to back track almost a century simply to slander the other side. You're really pathetic dude.

Q: What was it the New Deal was supposed to accomplish?

It wasn't supposed to accomplish anything.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!



That is some of the dumbest but funniest shit I have seen here in a while, and that's saying a great deal!

It is HI-fucking-LARIOUS!

The "great" FDR promised a "New Deal" but it wasn't intended to accomplish anything!

That is the classic lib defense of FDR and his socialism! It is the funniest political commentary I have EVER seen!



My fucking sides are aching from laughter.

Holy shit.

SNORT!

 

[Dr.Traveler]

A lot of folks posting about the New Deal forget how unreal the whole situation was. You had people dying of starvation in the Appalachians, the Dust Bowl just east of the Rockies, and shanty towns in NYC.

Folks wanted the Government to be doing SOMETHING, capital letters, or they were going to do what Europe did and vote for those that would. We came close to almost losing everything in the Depression.

The New Deal may not have been economically successful, but it did give people the idea that the Fed knew they were suffering and was at least trying to help. In that sense it was a success and it bought time until WWII pulled us out of the Depression.

 

[8537]

Let me guess how this thread has gone since I don't have time nor inclination to read it.

I bet CF is claiming that FDR didn't do a thing to make the depression better. I'm sure a few backslappers have come along to assure us he made it worse. And I'm guessing they've supported this supposition with a piece of research from two UCLA economists and perhaps a report by the Mackinac Institute.

And maybe, if anyone actually knows what they are talking about, they pointed out that 3000 banks failed in the year before FDR's first piece of New Deal legislation, while 7 failed in the year that followed. This brought broad-based stability to the financial markets and made people comfortable using the financial system again, leading to an increase in investment from near zero where it stood when he took office.

The economy, which had declined for almost 4 straight years and lost 40% of its value, began growing almost immediately and the recession ended. The growth for the next four years was a record for a four year peacetime period thanks to stability, a return of investment, positive gains in virtually every sector of the economy and a plan to increase employment via public works that helped to increase the velocity of money. This was as close as one could come to Keynesian stimulus before Keynesian stimulus had been codified. It was the result of a plan to avoid the liquidity trap and the associated paradox of thrift. It involved deficit spending by the government to increase investment spending.

In about 1939-40, the government did the exact same thing on a much larger scale and the economy grew even more rapidly. It's unfortunate that they waited so long.