The Obamacare Conundrum

[Derideo_Te]

So according to the latest meme that is making the rounds the more that people are finding out about Obamacare the less they like it.

If that is true then why are the far right so determined to kill it now?

From a political standpoint doesn't it make more sense to allow it to become law and have everyone dislike it so much that the GOP will win the 2014 and 2016 elections by landslides on the platform of repealing Obamacare?

What am I missing here? Isn't the whole political game played by using your opponent's voting record against them during the election? Any candidate who voted for Obamacare will be toast and every candidate who opposed it will be guaranteed a seat in a new Republican veto proof majority in both houses.

So the conundrum seems to be why are the far right so determined to hurt themselves politically by insisting upon defunding Obamacare to the point where they will damage the economy and hurt hardworking Americans.

It seems so bizarre that they would be ignoring the big picture. Would anyone care to explain why it is better to risk damaging the GOP brand now than it is to wait another 13 months and reap the rewards of sweeping victories?

 

[Politico]

No conundrum. Historically once the teet has been whipped out, getting the suckers to release is nearly impossible,

 

[Luddly Neddite]

No conundrum. Historically once the teet has been whipped out, getting the suckers to release is nearly impossible,

Jeezus fucking krist.

I can't believe there are still ignorant rw's who STILL don't understand that paying for your own insurance is the opposite of the "system" we have now.

FUCK. How do people GET THIS FUCKING DUMB?????

I give up.

 

[Politico]

Second time you made a rep request in one week. Sadly you are too much of a pussy to turn your rep on.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Who suffers while the experiment fails and what are the lasting consequences?


I'd feel better if all the signs of failure didn't exist..

 

[Derideo_Te]

Who suffers while the experiment fails and what are the lasting consequences?


I'd feel better if all the signs of failure didn't exist..

Who suffers if the economy is wrecked now and what are the lasting consequences of defaulting on the nation's debt obligations?

The lesser of two evils is never a great choice to have to make.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Who suffers while the experiment fails and what are the lasting consequences?


I'd feel better if all the signs of failure didn't exist..

Who suffers if the economy is wrecked now and what are the lasting consequences of defaulting on the nation's debt obligations?

The lesser of two evils is never a great choice to have to make.

What's your opinion of the present economy?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So according to the latest meme that is making the rounds the more that people are finding out about Obamacare the less they like it.

If that is true then why are the far right so determined to kill it now?

From a political standpoint doesn't it make more sense to allow it to become law and have everyone dislike it so much that the GOP will win the 2014 and 2016 elections by landslides on the platform of repealing Obamacare?

What am I missing here? Isn't the whole political game played by using your opponent's voting record against them during the election? Any candidate who voted for Obamacare will be toast and every candidate who opposed it will be guaranteed a seat in a new Republican veto proof majority in both houses.

So the conundrum seems to be why are the far right so determined to hurt themselves politically by insisting upon defunding Obamacare to the point where they will damage the economy and hurt hardworking Americans.

It seems so bizarre that they would be ignoring the big picture. Would anyone care to explain why it is better to risk damaging the GOP brand now than it is to wait another 13 months and reap the rewards of sweeping victories?

Because republicans know the law will likely be successful, with millions of Americans having access to affordable healthcare, and for a significant number of Americans, having healthcare for the first time.

And Americans are responding to the lies the right contrive with regard to the ACA, once the law is in full effect next year, Americans will experience first hand the truth concerning the ACA and realize that the lies they were told by the right were indeed lies.

It will then be too late to ‘defund’ or ‘repeal’ the ACA by November 2014.

There’s also the intense disdain many on the right have for the president, where ‘getting rid’ of the ACA would be the next best thing to ‘getting rid’ of Obama.

Understand, of course, that republican/conservative opposition to the ACA is purely partisan, having nothing to do with the merits of the Act itself.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Who suffers while the experiment fails and what are the lasting consequences?


I'd feel better if all the signs of failure didn't exist..

Who suffers if the economy is wrecked now and what are the lasting consequences of defaulting on the nation's debt obligations?

The lesser of two evils is never a great choice to have to make.

What's your opinion of the present economy?

Not great at all but it beats the alternative of an economic meltdown in my opinion.

 

[Trajan]

So according to the latest meme that is making the rounds the more that people are finding out about Obamacare the less they like it.

If that is true then why are the far right so determined to kill it now?

From a political standpoint doesn't it make more sense to allow it to become law and have everyone dislike it so much that the GOP will win the 2014 and 2016 elections by landslides on the platform of repealing Obamacare?

What am I missing here? Isn't the whole political game played by using your opponent's voting record against them during the election? Any candidate who voted for Obamacare will be toast and every candidate who opposed it will be guaranteed a seat in a new Republican veto proof majority in both houses.

So the conundrum seems to be why are the far right so determined to hurt themselves politically by insisting upon defunding Obamacare to the point where they will damage the economy and hurt hardworking Americans.

It seems so bizarre that they would be ignoring the big picture. Would anyone care to explain why it is better to risk damaging the GOP brand now than it is to wait another 13 months and reap the rewards of sweeping victories?

wow, half the country is far right? who knew?

 

[Trajan]

So according to the latest meme that is making the rounds the more that people are finding out about Obamacare the less they like it.

If that is true then why are the far right so determined to kill it now?

From a political standpoint doesn't it make more sense to allow it to become law and have everyone dislike it so much that the GOP will win the 2014 and 2016 elections by landslides on the platform of repealing Obamacare?

What am I missing here? Isn't the whole political game played by using your opponent's voting record against them during the election? Any candidate who voted for Obamacare will be toast and every candidate who opposed it will be guaranteed a seat in a new Republican veto proof majority in both houses.

So the conundrum seems to be why are the far right so determined to hurt themselves politically by insisting upon defunding Obamacare to the point where they will damage the economy and hurt hardworking Americans.

It seems so bizarre that they would be ignoring the big picture. Would anyone care to explain why it is better to risk damaging the GOP brand now than it is to wait another 13 months and reap the rewards of sweeping victories?

Because republicans know the law will likely be successful, with millions of Americans having access to affordable healthcare, and for a significant number of Americans, having healthcare for the first time.

And Americans are responding to the lies the right contrive with regard to the ACA, once the law is in full effect next year, Americans will experience first hand the truth concerning the ACA and realize that the lies they were told by the right were indeed lies.

It will then be too late to ‘defund’ or ‘repeal’ the ACA by November 2014.

There’s also the intense disdain many on the right have for the president, where ‘getting rid’ of the ACA would be the next best thing to ‘getting rid’ of Obama.

Understand, of course, that republican/conservative opposition to the ACA is purely partisan, having nothing to do with the merits of the Act itself.

so clayton, the lies? seriously? right, if you like your doctor you can keep him/her, or, keep your plan..? dude, right out of the gate, thats not true for a huge % of those folks and you know it, no wait, I guess you don't, or pulling congress out of the obamacare equation? yea thats wonderful, they make the meal and tell the rest of us to eat and then protect themselves from it.......you really defending that? Guess you are pathetic.......maybe thats some of that dogma you said the right uses to keep their blinders on ...heal thyself.

 

[MeBelle]

So according to the latest meme that is making the rounds the more that people are finding out about Obamacare the less they like it.

If that is true then why are the far right so determined to kill it now?

From a political standpoint doesn't it make more sense to allow it to become law and have everyone dislike it so much that the GOP will win the 2014 and 2016 elections by landslides on the platform of repealing Obamacare?

What am I missing here? Isn't the whole political game played by using your opponent's voting record against them during the election? Any candidate who voted for Obamacare will be toast and every candidate who opposed it will be guaranteed a seat in a new Republican veto proof majority in both houses.

So the conundrum seems to be why are the far right so determined to hurt themselves politically by insisting upon defunding Obamacare to the point where they will damage the economy and hurt hardworking Americans.

It seems so bizarre that they would be ignoring the big picture. Would anyone care to explain why it is better to risk damaging the GOP brand now than it is to wait another 13 months and reap the rewards of sweeping victories?

This:

Second, that bronze plan is bare bones. It leaves the insured with 40% of the bill.

The conceit of the thread is that the cheapest bronze plan would cost a family of 5 $20,000/year in premiums. That was a lie, told by idiots to idiots. The point of looking up actual numbers is to expose the absurdity of that claim. The actual cheapest bronze plan for a family that large is actually less than $5,000, with families potentially being asked to pay substantially less than that.

That's not a recommendation that this family actually choose to buy catastrophic coverage, the point is that catastrophic coverage doesn't cost $20,000, as the more impressionable minds in the rightwing herd were led to believe.

Derp.

Bronze is not a catastrophic plan.

I checked some numbers real quick.
For a real family of five that I know, the cheapest bronze plan would cost $26,980 before any benefits are paid out.

I then went to the cheapest platinum plan. Cost: $25,240.

Neither of those numbers come even close to what that family currently pays.

Dental not included.
Eye care not included.
Formularies not included.

The families 'health insurance' just doubled!

Let's not even talk about the number of Docs dropping MediCal patients.

Using this tool provided be Greenbeard:
Get Covered | Covered California?

In my above post the family currently pays approx $12K per year with pretax dollars. She's an RN, he works for AT&T.

This family will be having an economic meltdown after barely seeing topside of the last economic meltdown.

There is nothing to cut out of their budget.
They will go into debt buying health insurance.

 

[Antares]

So according to the latest meme that is making the rounds the more that people are finding out about Obamacare the less they like it.

If that is true then why are the far right so determined to kill it now?

From a political standpoint doesn't it make more sense to allow it to become law and have everyone dislike it so much that the GOP will win the 2014 and 2016 elections by landslides on the platform of repealing Obamacare?

What am I missing here? Isn't the whole political game played by using your opponent's voting record against them during the election? Any candidate who voted for Obamacare will be toast and every candidate who opposed it will be guaranteed a seat in a new Republican veto proof majority in both houses.

So the conundrum seems to be why are the far right so determined to hurt themselves politically by insisting upon defunding Obamacare to the point where they will damage the economy and hurt hardworking Americans.

It seems so bizarre that they would be ignoring the big picture. Would anyone care to explain why it is better to risk damaging the GOP brand now than it is to wait another 13 months and reap the rewards of sweeping victories?

Because republicans know the law will likely be successful, with millions of Americans having access to affordable healthcare, and for a significant number of Americans, having healthcare for the first time.

And Americans are responding to the lies the right contrive with regard to the ACA, once the law is in full effect next year, Americans will experience first hand the truth concerning the ACA and realize that the lies they were told by the right were indeed lies.

It will then be too late to ‘defund’ or ‘repeal’ the ACA by November 2014.

There’s also the intense disdain many on the right have for the president, where ‘getting rid’ of the ACA would be the next best thing to ‘getting rid’ of Obama.

Understand, of course, that republican/conservative opposition to the ACA is purely partisan, having nothing to do with the merits of the Act itself.

You made a lot of assumptions here....I know that you don't know ANYTHING about the ACA other what you may hace read on Obama's website...don't even try try to act knowledgeable.

 

[OnePercenter]

Who suffers while the experiment fails and what are the lasting consequences?


I'd feel better if all the signs of failure didn't exist..

Who suffers if the economy is wrecked now and what are the lasting consequences of defaulting on the nation's debt obligations?

The lesser of two evils is never a great choice to have to make.

What's your opinion of the present economy?

The rich and corporate America are making money so fast that were running out of places to stash it without paying a fee.

Unless corporate subsidies for employees returns, or the Republicans are kicked to the curb in 2014, the middle class will continue to be screwed.

 

[Trajan]

Who suffers if the economy is wrecked now and what are the lasting consequences of defaulting on the nation's debt obligations?

The lesser of two evils is never a great choice to have to make.

What's your opinion of the present economy?

The rich and corporate America are making money so fast that were running out of places to stash it without paying a fee.

Unless corporate subsidies for employees returns, or the Republicans are kicked to the curb in 2014, the middle class will continue to be screwed.

is your forum name a take off on the % of intellect you possess?

a) that alinskly shit doesn't fly when you HAVE THE POWER, b) if you had not noticed thats the democratic party created this program, I know what a newsflash eh? ....c) who has promised big pharma and the ins. co's oddles and boodles of new costumers they can service? c) the,market and all that wall st. $$ is compliments of.....wait for it.... Obama via bernbank .....

 

[Derideo_Te]

So according to the latest meme that is making the rounds the more that people are finding out about Obamacare the less they like it.

If that is true then why are the far right so determined to kill it now?

From a political standpoint doesn't it make more sense to allow it to become law and have everyone dislike it so much that the GOP will win the 2014 and 2016 elections by landslides on the platform of repealing Obamacare?

What am I missing here? Isn't the whole political game played by using your opponent's voting record against them during the election? Any candidate who voted for Obamacare will be toast and every candidate who opposed it will be guaranteed a seat in a new Republican veto proof majority in both houses.

So the conundrum seems to be why are the far right so determined to hurt themselves politically by insisting upon defunding Obamacare to the point where they will damage the economy and hurt hardworking Americans.

It seems so bizarre that they would be ignoring the big picture. Would anyone care to explain why it is better to risk damaging the GOP brand now than it is to wait another 13 months and reap the rewards of sweeping victories?

This:

The conceit of the thread is that the cheapest bronze plan would cost a family of 5 $20,000/year in premiums. That was a lie, told by idiots to idiots. The point of looking up actual numbers is to expose the absurdity of that claim. The actual cheapest bronze plan for a family that large is actually less than $5,000, with families potentially being asked to pay substantially less than that.

That's not a recommendation that this family actually choose to buy catastrophic coverage, the point is that catastrophic coverage doesn't cost $20,000, as the more impressionable minds in the rightwing herd were led to believe.

Derp.

Bronze is not a catastrophic plan.

I checked some numbers real quick.
For a real family of five that I know, the cheapest bronze plan would cost $26,980 before any benefits are paid out.

I then went to the cheapest platinum plan. Cost: $25,240.

Neither of those numbers come even close to what that family currently pays.

Dental not included.
Eye care not included.
Formularies not included.

The families 'health insurance' just doubled!

Let's not even talk about the number of Docs dropping MediCal patients.

Using this tool provided be Greenbeard:
Get Covered | Covered California?

In my above post the family currently pays approx $12K per year with pretax dollars. She's an RN, he works for AT&T.

This family will be having an economic meltdown after barely seeing topside of the last economic meltdown.

There is nothing to cut out of their budget.
They will go into debt buying health insurance.

In order to verify your link can you please provide the zip code, total income and ages of the family members. Thank you.

 

[Derideo_Te]

So according to the latest meme that is making the rounds the more that people are finding out about Obamacare the less they like it.

If that is true then why are the far right so determined to kill it now?

From a political standpoint doesn't it make more sense to allow it to become law and have everyone dislike it so much that the GOP will win the 2014 and 2016 elections by landslides on the platform of repealing Obamacare?

What am I missing here? Isn't the whole political game played by using your opponent's voting record against them during the election? Any candidate who voted for Obamacare will be toast and every candidate who opposed it will be guaranteed a seat in a new Republican veto proof majority in both houses.

So the conundrum seems to be why are the far right so determined to hurt themselves politically by insisting upon defunding Obamacare to the point where they will damage the economy and hurt hardworking Americans.

It seems so bizarre that they would be ignoring the big picture. Would anyone care to explain why it is better to risk damaging the GOP brand now than it is to wait another 13 months and reap the rewards of sweeping victories?

wow, half the country is far right? who knew?

Not at all sure how you managed to reach that conclusion. Could you please show me how you did reach it so that I correct any mistakes that I have made in the OP? Thank you.

 

[Lumpy 1]

So according to the latest meme that is making the rounds the more that people are finding out about Obamacare the less they like it.

If that is true then why are the far right so determined to kill it now?

From a political standpoint doesn't it make more sense to allow it to become law and have everyone dislike it so much that the GOP will win the 2014 and 2016 elections by landslides on the platform of repealing Obamacare?

What am I missing here? Isn't the whole political game played by using your opponent's voting record against them during the election? Any candidate who voted for Obamacare will be toast and every candidate who opposed it will be guaranteed a seat in a new Republican veto proof majority in both houses.

So the conundrum seems to be why are the far right so determined to hurt themselves politically by insisting upon defunding Obamacare to the point where they will damage the economy and hurt hardworking Americans.

It seems so bizarre that they would be ignoring the big picture. Would anyone care to explain why it is better to risk damaging the GOP brand now than it is to wait another 13 months and reap the rewards of sweeping victories?

wow, half the country is far right? who knew?

Not at all sure how you managed to reach that conclusion. Could you please show me how you did reach it so that I correct any mistakes that I have made in the OP? Thank you.

I don't believe you are recognizing the damage Obamacare has already created and the damage it will continue to do to the US economy. The American don't deserve to be used as an experiment and a bi-partisan plan as opposed to an exclusively Democrat forced feeding plan would have been far more desirable. Democrats seem to prefer to believe that it's Obamacare or nothing which to me is an obvious falsehood.

 

[NLT]

Just wait till these stupid college age obama voters figure out how much they gotta pay and we will see occupy washington

 

[Derideo_Te]

wow, half the country is far right? who knew?

Not at all sure how you managed to reach that conclusion. Could you please show me how you did reach it so that I correct any mistakes that I have made in the OP? Thank you.

I don't believe you are recognizing the damage Obamacare has already created and the damage it will continue to do to the US economy. The American don't deserve to be used as an experiment and a bi-partisan plan as opposed to an exclusively Democrat forced feeding plan would have been far more desirable. Democrats seem to prefer to believe that it's Obamacare or nothing which to me is an obvious falsehood.

The only "damage" I see is that children who were previously denied coverage for "pre-existing conditions" like Cystic Fibrosis are now able to have their medical expenses covered instead of their parents going bankrupt trying to keep them alive. That kind of "damage" I can live with.

As far as Americans deserving to be "used as an experiment" goes that is exactly what the Founding Fathers did originally. The great experiment of We the People governing ourselves as opposed to being governed by a monarchy. Have we made mistakes? You betcha! Is this one of them. Am I willing to give it a chance? Why not? Some work and some don't but so far on balance I am happy that many of the excesses of the old system have been remediated. Could it be better. Absolutely and I am more than willing to work to make it a whole lot better than it currently is now.