The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are not listening.

P F Tinmore, montelatici, et al,

Well, given the sequence of events, and the timeline in the establishment, I'm not sure it is "funny" at all.

Speaking of maps. It is interesting that 1948 is the biggest year in Israel's. It was the foundation of the state.
Funny that nobody bothered to make a map. It seems that a 1948 map of Israel does not exist.

(COMMENT)

The successor government (UNPC), established in November 1947 (Part I, Section B - Steps Preparatory to Independence) Partition Plan, went to work beginning In the early days of January 1948. At that point, the modified UN Map No. 103.1 (b) Survey of Palestine, April 1946, was being used on the Regional Scale to capture the entire territory under the Mandate. The Survey of Palestine, prepared by the British Mandate for UN prior to proposing the 1947 partition plan was the last survey on which a UN Map was developed. The final boundaries, as described in Part II of the plan, that were to be modified and correcting the political subdivision for municipalities and villages, had not been reported; interrupted by the external interference and invasion by the Arab League lasting into the next year. The last of the Armistice Lines were established in April 1949.

The Basic UN Map 103.1b was one of the most common Maps used on which to plot data. It was used well into the late 1950's and early 1960's. In the future, we will probably see more satellite Imagery, Gas & Oil Surveys, Tradition Modified Archive Imagery, become more prevalent.

View attachment 73881​

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but that is not a 1948 map of Israel.

(COMMENT)

Israel declared independence on 15 May 1948. The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter. There are no maps because during the period 15 Map to 31 December 1948, the FEBA (Forward Edge of the Battle Area) was in motion, until the cease fire was establish and Armistice Agreements set. The Maps used to set the Demarcation Lines are much larger scale that the UN Map 103.1b Map, and they use 8-Digit Military Grid Reference System (MGRS).

From 1949, when the Armistice Lines were established, until the Armistice Lines were replaced with Internationally Recognized Boundaries by Treaty (Egypt and Jordan), the Annexations (Golan Heights and Jerusalem), and the resurrection of the Blue Line last published by the UN in June 2000; and based on the deployment of the IDF prior to 14 March 1978.

On 7 June 2007 the completed map showing the withdrawal line was formally transmitted by the Force Commander of UNIFIL to his Lebanese and Israeli counterparts.

Armistice Commissions routinely assess when the Armistice Line needs to be updated. In the case of the Blue Line, it has been updated in 2011 and 2015.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter.​

How so? What was the violation?

Article 2
The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.

1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
2. All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter.
3. All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
5. All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.
6. The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.
7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.

Highlighted for you, that is if you bother to read the UN charter

The Arab states entered Palestine to help the Palestinians.

What was illegal about that?

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are not listening.

P F Tinmore, montelatici, et al,

Well, given the sequence of events, and the timeline in the establishment, I'm not sure it is "funny" at all.

(COMMENT)

The successor government (UNPC), established in November 1947 (Part I, Section B - Steps Preparatory to Independence) Partition Plan, went to work beginning In the early days of January 1948. At that point, the modified UN Map No. 103.1 (b) Survey of Palestine, April 1946, was being used on the Regional Scale to capture the entire territory under the Mandate. The Survey of Palestine, prepared by the British Mandate for UN prior to proposing the 1947 partition plan was the last survey on which a UN Map was developed. The final boundaries, as described in Part II of the plan, that were to be modified and correcting the political subdivision for municipalities and villages, had not been reported; interrupted by the external interference and invasion by the Arab League lasting into the next year. The last of the Armistice Lines were established in April 1949.

The Basic UN Map 103.1b was one of the most common Maps used on which to plot data. It was used well into the late 1950's and early 1960's. In the future, we will probably see more satellite Imagery, Gas & Oil Surveys, Tradition Modified Archive Imagery, become more prevalent.

View attachment 73881​

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but that is not a 1948 map of Israel.

(COMMENT)

Israel declared independence on 15 May 1948. The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter. There are no maps because during the period 15 Map to 31 December 1948, the FEBA (Forward Edge of the Battle Area) was in motion, until the cease fire was establish and Armistice Agreements set. The Maps used to set the Demarcation Lines are much larger scale that the UN Map 103.1b Map, and they use 8-Digit Military Grid Reference System (MGRS).

From 1949, when the Armistice Lines were established, until the Armistice Lines were replaced with Internationally Recognized Boundaries by Treaty (Egypt and Jordan), the Annexations (Golan Heights and Jerusalem), and the resurrection of the Blue Line last published by the UN in June 2000; and based on the deployment of the IDF prior to 14 March 1978.

On 7 June 2007 the completed map showing the withdrawal line was formally transmitted by the Force Commander of UNIFIL to his Lebanese and Israeli counterparts.

Armistice Commissions routinely assess when the Armistice Line needs to be updated. In the case of the Blue Line, it has been updated in 2011 and 2015.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter.​

How so? What was the violation?

Article 2
The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.

1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
2. All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter.
3. All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
5. All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.
6. The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.
7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.

Highlighted for you, that is if you bother to read the UN charter

The Arab states entered Palestine to help the Palestinians.

What was illegal about that?

Trolling Stormfront for your history lessons?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are not listening.

OK, but that is not a 1948 map of Israel.

(COMMENT)

Israel declared independence on 15 May 1948. The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter. There are no maps because during the period 15 Map to 31 December 1948, the FEBA (Forward Edge of the Battle Area) was in motion, until the cease fire was establish and Armistice Agreements set. The Maps used to set the Demarcation Lines are much larger scale that the UN Map 103.1b Map, and they use 8-Digit Military Grid Reference System (MGRS).

From 1949, when the Armistice Lines were established, until the Armistice Lines were replaced with Internationally Recognized Boundaries by Treaty (Egypt and Jordan), the Annexations (Golan Heights and Jerusalem), and the resurrection of the Blue Line last published by the UN in June 2000; and based on the deployment of the IDF prior to 14 March 1978.

On 7 June 2007 the completed map showing the withdrawal line was formally transmitted by the Force Commander of UNIFIL to his Lebanese and Israeli counterparts.

Armistice Commissions routinely assess when the Armistice Line needs to be updated. In the case of the Blue Line, it has been updated in 2011 and 2015.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter.​

How so? What was the violation?

Article 2
The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.

1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
2. All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter.
3. All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
5. All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.
6. The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.
7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.

Highlighted for you, that is if you bother to read the UN charter

The Arab states entered Palestine to help the Palestinians.

What was illegal about that?

Trolling Stormfront for your history lessons?

What do you mean Stormfront?

The second contest began with the invasion of Palestine by regular Arab armies on May 15, 1948,...

Israel Studies An Anthology: War of 1948 | Jewish Virtual Library​

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are not listening.

(COMMENT)

Israel declared independence on 15 May 1948. The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter. There are no maps because during the period 15 Map to 31 December 1948, the FEBA (Forward Edge of the Battle Area) was in motion, until the cease fire was establish and Armistice Agreements set. The Maps used to set the Demarcation Lines are much larger scale that the UN Map 103.1b Map, and they use 8-Digit Military Grid Reference System (MGRS).

From 1949, when the Armistice Lines were established, until the Armistice Lines were replaced with Internationally Recognized Boundaries by Treaty (Egypt and Jordan), the Annexations (Golan Heights and Jerusalem), and the resurrection of the Blue Line last published by the UN in June 2000; and based on the deployment of the IDF prior to 14 March 1978.

On 7 June 2007 the completed map showing the withdrawal line was formally transmitted by the Force Commander of UNIFIL to his Lebanese and Israeli counterparts.

Armistice Commissions routinely assess when the Armistice Line needs to be updated. In the case of the Blue Line, it has been updated in 2011 and 2015.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter.​

How so? What was the violation?

Article 2
The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.

1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
2. All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter.
3. All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
5. All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.
6. The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.
7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.

Highlighted for you, that is if you bother to read the UN charter

The Arab states entered Palestine to help the Palestinians.

What was illegal about that?

Trolling Stormfront for your history lessons?

What do you mean Stormfront?

The second contest began with the invasion of Palestine by regular Arab armies on May 15, 1948,...

Israel Studies An Anthology: War of 1948 | Jewish Virtual Library​

What do I mean Stormfront?

What do you think I meant?

 

[independent minded]

And yes, legally, the Mandate did not have the authority to take land away from one group of people and give it to another group.

The Mandate did no such thing. The Mandate did not take land away from anyone. What the Mandate did was assign self-determination under national sovereignty of specific territories to those groups who lived in those territories.

The Mandate gave sovereignty over a portion of the land to the Syrians and formed the State of Syria. Jewish people lived in Syria. Did the Mandate "take land away" from the Jewish people in order to create Syria?

The Mandate gave sovereignty over a portion of the land to the Lebanese and formed the State of Lebanon. Jewish people lived in Lebanon. Did the Mandate "take land away" from the Jewish people in order to create Lebanon?

The Mandate gave sovereignty over a portion of the land to the Jordanian people and formed the State of Jordan. Jewish people lived in Jordan. Did the Mandate "take land away" from the Jewish people in order to create Jordan?

Just so, the Mandate gave sovereignty over a portion of the land to the Jewish people and formed the State of Israel, by right of the Jewish people's historical connection to the land. Arab Muslims lived in Israel.

Denial of the Jewish people to ALSO have rights to a national homeland, while giving those rights to others, is hypocritical.

Taking land from the native inhabitants and giving land in the Middle East to invading Europeans was the hypocrisy and in contravention of the Covenant of the League of Nations. Jews may or may not have a right to a national homeland, but if they do, but not at the expense of another group's home. Setting aside a part of Germany for the Jews may have been appropriate, for example.

I don't think that setting a part of Germany aside as a homeland for the Jews would've been appropriate, at all. The Jewish people, just as others, have the right to a country of their own, and so do the Palestinians. The only safe, sane, and sensible solution to the decades-old Israeli-Palestinian debacle is the two-state solution: Israel and Palestine ( which would be comprised of west Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem), alongside each other!

 

[montelatici]

And yes, legally, the Mandate did not have the authority to take land away from one group of people and give it to another group.

The Mandate did no such thing. The Mandate did not take land away from anyone. What the Mandate did was assign self-determination under national sovereignty of specific territories to those groups who lived in those territories.

The Mandate gave sovereignty over a portion of the land to the Syrians and formed the State of Syria. Jewish people lived in Syria. Did the Mandate "take land away" from the Jewish people in order to create Syria?

The Mandate gave sovereignty over a portion of the land to the Lebanese and formed the State of Lebanon. Jewish people lived in Lebanon. Did the Mandate "take land away" from the Jewish people in order to create Lebanon?

The Mandate gave sovereignty over a portion of the land to the Jordanian people and formed the State of Jordan. Jewish people lived in Jordan. Did the Mandate "take land away" from the Jewish people in order to create Jordan?

Just so, the Mandate gave sovereignty over a portion of the land to the Jewish people and formed the State of Israel, by right of the Jewish people's historical connection to the land. Arab Muslims lived in Israel.

Denial of the Jewish people to ALSO have rights to a national homeland, while giving those rights to others, is hypocritical.

Taking land from the native inhabitants and giving land in the Middle East to invading Europeans was the hypocrisy and in contravention of the Covenant of the League of Nations. Jews may or may not have a right to a national homeland, but if they do, but not at the expense of another group's home. Setting aside a part of Germany for the Jews may have been appropriate, for example.

I don't think that setting a part of Germany aside as a homeland for the Jews would've been appropriate, at all. The Jewish people, just as others, have the right to a country of their own, and so do the Palestinians. The only safe, sane, and sensible solution to the decades-old Israeli-Palestinian debacle is the two-state solution: Israel and Palestine ( which would be comprised of west Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem), alongside each other!

What was sane about taking land away from the native inhabitants and transferring European Jews to rule over the native inhabitants? I think such a plan dreamed up today would be rated as as a non-starter.

 

[montelatici]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are not listening.

P F Tinmore, montelatici, et al,

Well, given the sequence of events, and the timeline in the establishment, I'm not sure it is "funny" at all.

The thread was discussing maps of Palestine, get with the program. You need to look up the word "relevance" lying Hollie.

Speaking of maps. It is interesting that 1948 is the biggest year in Israel's. It was the foundation of the state.
Funny that nobody bothered to make a map. It seems that a 1948 map of Israel does not exist.

(COMMENT)

The successor government (UNPC), established in November 1947 (Part I, Section B - Steps Preparatory to Independence) Partition Plan, went to work beginning In the early days of January 1948. At that point, the modified UN Map No. 103.1 (b) Survey of Palestine, April 1946, was being used on the Regional Scale to capture the entire territory under the Mandate. The Survey of Palestine, prepared by the British Mandate for UN prior to proposing the 1947 partition plan was the last survey on which a UN Map was developed. The final boundaries, as described in Part II of the plan, that were to be modified and correcting the political subdivision for municipalities and villages, had not been reported; interrupted by the external interference and invasion by the Arab League lasting into the next year. The last of the Armistice Lines were established in April 1949.

The Basic UN Map 103.1b was one of the most common Maps used on which to plot data. It was used well into the late 1950's and early 1960's. In the future, we will probably see more satellite Imagery, Gas & Oil Surveys, Tradition Modified Archive Imagery, become more prevalent.

View attachment 73881​

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but that is not a 1948 map of Israel.

(COMMENT)

Israel declared independence on 15 May 1948. The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter. There are no maps because during the period 15 Map to 31 December 1948, the FEBA (Forward Edge of the Battle Area) was in motion, until the cease fire was establish and Armistice Agreements set. The Maps used to set the Demarcation Lines are much larger scale that the UN Map 103.1b Map, and they use 8-Digit Military Grid Reference System (MGRS).

From 1949, when the Armistice Lines were established, until the Armistice Lines were replaced with Internationally Recognized Boundaries by Treaty (Egypt and Jordan), the Annexations (Golan Heights and Jerusalem), and the resurrection of the Blue Line last published by the UN in June 2000; and based on the deployment of the IDF prior to 14 March 1978.

On 7 June 2007 the completed map showing the withdrawal line was formally transmitted by the Force Commander of UNIFIL to his Lebanese and Israeli counterparts.

Armistice Commissions routinely assess when the Armistice Line needs to be updated. In the case of the Blue Line, it has been updated in 2011 and 2015.

Most Respectfully,
R

The aggressors were the Jewish terrorists. The intervention of the Arab armies were the Palestinian's only hope to prevent the Jewish terrorist's plans to ethnically cleanse or otherwise eliminate the non-Jews.

Recently declassified British intelligence reports confirm these facts. Repeating Zionist propaganda does not make it true. Especially now that source material is available.

British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948
Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'

After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, British officials reported later in 1946: "Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any further Jewish provocation may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".

British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are not listening.

P F Tinmore, montelatici, et al,

Well, given the sequence of events, and the timeline in the establishment, I'm not sure it is "funny" at all.

The thread was discussing maps of Palestine, get with the program. You need to look up the word "relevance" lying Hollie.

Speaking of maps. It is interesting that 1948 is the biggest year in Israel's. It was the foundation of the state.
Funny that nobody bothered to make a map. It seems that a 1948 map of Israel does not exist.

(COMMENT)

The successor government (UNPC), established in November 1947 (Part I, Section B - Steps Preparatory to Independence) Partition Plan, went to work beginning In the early days of January 1948. At that point, the modified UN Map No. 103.1 (b) Survey of Palestine, April 1946, was being used on the Regional Scale to capture the entire territory under the Mandate. The Survey of Palestine, prepared by the British Mandate for UN prior to proposing the 1947 partition plan was the last survey on which a UN Map was developed. The final boundaries, as described in Part II of the plan, that were to be modified and correcting the political subdivision for municipalities and villages, had not been reported; interrupted by the external interference and invasion by the Arab League lasting into the next year. The last of the Armistice Lines were established in April 1949.

The Basic UN Map 103.1b was one of the most common Maps used on which to plot data. It was used well into the late 1950's and early 1960's. In the future, we will probably see more satellite Imagery, Gas & Oil Surveys, Tradition Modified Archive Imagery, become more prevalent.

View attachment 73881​

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but that is not a 1948 map of Israel.

(COMMENT)

Israel declared independence on 15 May 1948. The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter. There are no maps because during the period 15 Map to 31 December 1948, the FEBA (Forward Edge of the Battle Area) was in motion, until the cease fire was establish and Armistice Agreements set. The Maps used to set the Demarcation Lines are much larger scale that the UN Map 103.1b Map, and they use 8-Digit Military Grid Reference System (MGRS).

From 1949, when the Armistice Lines were established, until the Armistice Lines were replaced with Internationally Recognized Boundaries by Treaty (Egypt and Jordan), the Annexations (Golan Heights and Jerusalem), and the resurrection of the Blue Line last published by the UN in June 2000; and based on the deployment of the IDF prior to 14 March 1978.

On 7 June 2007 the completed map showing the withdrawal line was formally transmitted by the Force Commander of UNIFIL to his Lebanese and Israeli counterparts.

Armistice Commissions routinely assess when the Armistice Line needs to be updated. In the case of the Blue Line, it has been updated in 2011 and 2015.

Most Respectfully,
R

The aggressors were the Jewish terrorists. The intervention of the Arab armies were the Palestinian's only hope to prevent the Jewish terrorist's plans to ethnically cleanse or otherwise eliminate the non-Jews.

Recently declassified British intelligence reports confirm these facts. Repeating Zionist propaganda does not make it true. Especially now that source material is available.

British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948
Declassified UK reports document build-up of conflict, Jewish public's endorsement of their leaders' pro-terrorist stance and declare armies of Arab states were Palestinians' 'only hope'

After an increase in violent attacks by the militant Zionists of the Stern group and Irgun, British officials reported later in 1946: "Arab leaders appear to be still disposed to defer active opposition so long as a chance of a political decision acceptable to Arab interests exists." But they warned: "There is a real danger lest any further Jewish provocation may result in isolated acts of retaliation spreading inevitably to wider Arab-Jewish clashes".

British officials predicted war – and Arab defeat – in Palestine in 1948

The above is another cut and paste you cut and paste multiple times across multiple threads.

It does nothing to address the instigation of a hoped-for war of genocide waged by Arab-Moslem armies.

Spamming multiple threads with multiple cutting and pasting of your spam does nothing to address the salient points.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter.​

How so? What was the violation?

Article 2
The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.

1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
2. All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter.
3. All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
5. All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.
6. The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.
7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.

Highlighted for you, that is if you bother to read the UN charter

The Arab states entered Palestine to help the Palestinians.

What was illegal about that?

Trolling Stormfront for your history lessons?

What do you mean Stormfront?

The second contest began with the invasion of Palestine by regular Arab armies on May 15, 1948,...

Israel Studies An Anthology: War of 1948 | Jewish Virtual Library​

What do I mean Stormfront?

What do you think I meant?

I've never been to Stornfront. Why did you bring it up?

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are not listening.

P F Tinmore, montelatici, et al,

Well, given the sequence of events, and the timeline in the establishment, I'm not sure it is "funny" at all.

(COMMENT)

The successor government (UNPC), established in November 1947 (Part I, Section B - Steps Preparatory to Independence) Partition Plan, went to work beginning In the early days of January 1948. At that point, the modified UN Map No. 103.1 (b) Survey of Palestine, April 1946, was being used on the Regional Scale to capture the entire territory under the Mandate. The Survey of Palestine, prepared by the British Mandate for UN prior to proposing the 1947 partition plan was the last survey on which a UN Map was developed. The final boundaries, as described in Part II of the plan, that were to be modified and correcting the political subdivision for municipalities and villages, had not been reported; interrupted by the external interference and invasion by the Arab League lasting into the next year. The last of the Armistice Lines were established in April 1949.

The Basic UN Map 103.1b was one of the most common Maps used on which to plot data. It was used well into the late 1950's and early 1960's. In the future, we will probably see more satellite Imagery, Gas & Oil Surveys, Tradition Modified Archive Imagery, become more prevalent.

View attachment 73881​

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but that is not a 1948 map of Israel.

(COMMENT)

Israel declared independence on 15 May 1948. The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter. There are no maps because during the period 15 Map to 31 December 1948, the FEBA (Forward Edge of the Battle Area) was in motion, until the cease fire was establish and Armistice Agreements set. The Maps used to set the Demarcation Lines are much larger scale that the UN Map 103.1b Map, and they use 8-Digit Military Grid Reference System (MGRS).

From 1949, when the Armistice Lines were established, until the Armistice Lines were replaced with Internationally Recognized Boundaries by Treaty (Egypt and Jordan), the Annexations (Golan Heights and Jerusalem), and the resurrection of the Blue Line last published by the UN in June 2000; and based on the deployment of the IDF prior to 14 March 1978.

On 7 June 2007 the completed map showing the withdrawal line was formally transmitted by the Force Commander of UNIFIL to his Lebanese and Israeli counterparts.

Armistice Commissions routinely assess when the Armistice Line needs to be updated. In the case of the Blue Line, it has been updated in 2011 and 2015.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter.​

How so? What was the violation?

Article 2
The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.

1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
2. All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter.
3. All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
5. All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.
6. The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.
7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.

Highlighted for you, that is if you bother to read the UN charter

The Arab states entered Palestine to help the Palestinians.

What was illegal about that?

The fact that Palestinians did not exist in any nation made it illegal. And if you read the reports the arab league declared war on the Jews in 1947 with the intention of wiping them out and taking all the land.


Now read article 3 again

All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.

Clear enough for you now.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are not listening.

(COMMENT)

Israel declared independence on 15 May 1948. The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter. There are no maps because during the period 15 Map to 31 December 1948, the FEBA (Forward Edge of the Battle Area) was in motion, until the cease fire was establish and Armistice Agreements set. The Maps used to set the Demarcation Lines are much larger scale that the UN Map 103.1b Map, and they use 8-Digit Military Grid Reference System (MGRS).

From 1949, when the Armistice Lines were established, until the Armistice Lines were replaced with Internationally Recognized Boundaries by Treaty (Egypt and Jordan), the Annexations (Golan Heights and Jerusalem), and the resurrection of the Blue Line last published by the UN in June 2000; and based on the deployment of the IDF prior to 14 March 1978.

On 7 June 2007 the completed map showing the withdrawal line was formally transmitted by the Force Commander of UNIFIL to his Lebanese and Israeli counterparts.

Armistice Commissions routinely assess when the Armistice Line needs to be updated. In the case of the Blue Line, it has been updated in 2011 and 2015.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter.​

How so? What was the violation?

Article 2
The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.

1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
2. All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter.
3. All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
5. All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.
6. The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.
7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.

Highlighted for you, that is if you bother to read the UN charter

The Arab states entered Palestine to help the Palestinians.

What was illegal about that?

Trolling Stormfront for your history lessons?

What do you mean Stormfront?

The second contest began with the invasion of Palestine by regular Arab armies on May 15, 1948,...

Israel Studies An Anthology: War of 1948 | Jewish Virtual Library​

Which was illegal as the land was still under mandate at that time. So the UN should have had the US drop the third bomb on mecca to teach the arab muslims a lesson.

 

[Phoenall]

And yes, legally, the Mandate did not have the authority to take land away from one group of people and give it to another group.

The Mandate did no such thing. The Mandate did not take land away from anyone. What the Mandate did was assign self-determination under national sovereignty of specific territories to those groups who lived in those territories.

The Mandate gave sovereignty over a portion of the land to the Syrians and formed the State of Syria. Jewish people lived in Syria. Did the Mandate "take land away" from the Jewish people in order to create Syria?

The Mandate gave sovereignty over a portion of the land to the Lebanese and formed the State of Lebanon. Jewish people lived in Lebanon. Did the Mandate "take land away" from the Jewish people in order to create Lebanon?

The Mandate gave sovereignty over a portion of the land to the Jordanian people and formed the State of Jordan. Jewish people lived in Jordan. Did the Mandate "take land away" from the Jewish people in order to create Jordan?

Just so, the Mandate gave sovereignty over a portion of the land to the Jewish people and formed the State of Israel, by right of the Jewish people's historical connection to the land. Arab Muslims lived in Israel.

Denial of the Jewish people to ALSO have rights to a national homeland, while giving those rights to others, is hypocritical.

Taking land from the native inhabitants and giving land in the Middle East to invading Europeans was the hypocrisy and in contravention of the Covenant of the League of Nations. Jews may or may not have a right to a national homeland, but if they do, but not at the expense of another group's home. Setting aside a part of Germany for the Jews may have been appropriate, for example.

I don't think that setting a part of Germany aside as a homeland for the Jews would've been appropriate, at all. The Jewish people, just as others, have the right to a country of their own, and so do the Palestinians. The only safe, sane, and sensible solution to the decades-old Israeli-Palestinian debacle is the two-state solution: Israel and Palestine ( which would be comprised of west Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem), alongside each other!

What was sane about taking land away from the native inhabitants and transferring European Jews to rule over the native inhabitants? I think such a plan dreamed up today would be rated as as a non-starter.

Today we would see that the majority of arab muslims are illegal immigrants and would be telling them to go back home.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think that you are trying to question the Israeli "right of self-determination" as recommended by the General Assembly (Steps Preparatory to Independence) which the Arabs of Palestine rejected; as well as, the right of the Allied Powers to determine the future of the region (Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne).

The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter.

How so? What was the violation?

(ANSWER)

Israel, as a "Successor State" to the territory which was dependent (for the international relations diplomatic and legalities) to the "Predecessor State" (the appointed Mandatory: Britain). Israel became, through the coordination and execution of the Steps Preparatory to Independence, exercised its right of self-determination and became a “newly independent State” (a Successor State to the Mandatory).

Article 1(2) UN Charter

To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
​

Article 2(4) UN Charter

All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
​

Article 2(7) UN Charter

Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.
​

The Arab Palestinian never maintained effective control of --- or taken possession of --- the territory to which the Mandate Applied. It never followed through with the Article 22(4) of the League of Nations Covenant (until such time as they are able to stand alone) and subsequently lost their provisional recognized as an independent nation. At every stage of the Administration, right through to the 1948 Independence of Israel, Refused to take part or participate in any aspect of the Governance Process.

(COMMENT)

In this time frame 1940 thru 1950, countries like the various Mandates ultimately created followed a "Just War Doctrine" or Jus ad bellum. This was particularly true in the Middle East; indeed, much of the territory and sovereignty of Arabia, Europe, and the Americas follow from the Use of Armed Force. In the case of the Arab League attack on Israel on its Declaration of Independence, the Arab League uses the pretext of the attack as a Humanitarian intervention – where the Arab League may use force with Israel to protect the Arab Palestinian nationals of the "newly independent state."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think that you are trying to question the Israeli "right of self-determination" as recommended by the General Assembly (Steps Preparatory to Independence) which the Arabs of Palestine rejected; as well as, the right of the Allied Powers to determine the future of the region (Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne).

The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter.

How so? What was the violation?

(ANSWER)

Israel, as a "Successor State" to the territory which was dependent (for the international relations diplomatic and legalities) to the "Predecessor State" (the appointed Mandatory: Britain). Israel became, through the coordination and execution of the Steps Preparatory to Independence, exercised its right of self-determination and became a “newly independent State” (a Successor State to the Mandatory).

Article 1(2) UN Charter

To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
​

Article 2(4) UN Charter

All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
​

Article 2(7) UN Charter

Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.
​

The Arab Palestinian never maintained effective control of --- or taken possession of --- the territory to which the Mandate Applied. It never followed through with the Article 22(4) of the League of Nations Covenant (until such time as they are able to stand alone) and subsequently lost their provisional recognized as an independent nation. At every stage of the Administration, right through to the 1948 Independence of Israel, Refused to take part or participate in any aspect of the Governance Process.

(COMMENT)

In this time frame 1940 thru 1950, countries like the various Mandates ultimately created followed a "Just War Doctrine" or Jus ad bellum. This was particularly true in the Middle East; indeed, much of the territory and sovereignty of Arabia, Europe, and the Americas follow from the Use of Armed Force. In the case of the Arab League attack on Israel on its Declaration of Independence, the Arab League uses the pretext of the attack as a Humanitarian intervention – where the Arab League may use force with Israel to protect the Arab Palestinian nationals of the "newly independent state."

Most Respectfully,
R

I think that you are trying to question the Israeli "right of self-determination"...​

There are several UN resolutions stating that the Palestinians have the right to self determination, however, I have never seen one that says the same thing about Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think that you are trying to question the Israeli "right of self-determination" as recommended by the General Assembly (Steps Preparatory to Independence) which the Arabs of Palestine rejected; as well as, the right of the Allied Powers to determine the future of the region (Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne).

The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter.

How so? What was the violation?

(ANSWER)

Israel, as a "Successor State" to the territory which was dependent (for the international relations diplomatic and legalities) to the "Predecessor State" (the appointed Mandatory: Britain). Israel became, through the coordination and execution of the Steps Preparatory to Independence, exercised its right of self-determination and became a “newly independent State” (a Successor State to the Mandatory).

Article 1(2) UN Charter

To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
​

Article 2(4) UN Charter

All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
​

Article 2(7) UN Charter

Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.
​

The Arab Palestinian never maintained effective control of --- or taken possession of --- the territory to which the Mandate Applied. It never followed through with the Article 22(4) of the League of Nations Covenant (until such time as they are able to stand alone) and subsequently lost their provisional recognized as an independent nation. At every stage of the Administration, right through to the 1948 Independence of Israel, Refused to take part or participate in any aspect of the Governance Process.

(COMMENT)

In this time frame 1940 thru 1950, countries like the various Mandates ultimately created followed a "Just War Doctrine" or Jus ad bellum. This was particularly true in the Middle East; indeed, much of the territory and sovereignty of Arabia, Europe, and the Americas follow from the Use of Armed Force. In the case of the Arab League attack on Israel on its Declaration of Independence, the Arab League uses the pretext of the attack as a Humanitarian intervention – where the Arab League may use force with Israel to protect the Arab Palestinian nationals of the "newly independent state."

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel, as a "Successor State" to the territory which was dependent (for the international relations diplomatic and legalities) to the "Predecessor State" (the appointed Mandatory: Britain).​

The British Mandate was not a state. It was a temporarily appointed administration.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think that you are trying to question the Israeli "right of self-determination" as recommended by the General Assembly (Steps Preparatory to Independence) which the Arabs of Palestine rejected; as well as, the right of the Allied Powers to determine the future of the region (Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne).

The Aggressors of the Arab League attacked hours later in violation of Article 2 of the Charter.

How so? What was the violation?

(ANSWER)

Israel, as a "Successor State" to the territory which was dependent (for the international relations diplomatic and legalities) to the "Predecessor State" (the appointed Mandatory: Britain). Israel became, through the coordination and execution of the Steps Preparatory to Independence, exercised its right of self-determination and became a “newly independent State” (a Successor State to the Mandatory).

Article 1(2) UN Charter

To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
​

Article 2(4) UN Charter

All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
​

Article 2(7) UN Charter

Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.
​

The Arab Palestinian never maintained effective control of --- or taken possession of --- the territory to which the Mandate Applied. It never followed through with the Article 22(4) of the League of Nations Covenant (until such time as they are able to stand alone) and subsequently lost their provisional recognized as an independent nation. At every stage of the Administration, right through to the 1948 Independence of Israel, Refused to take part or participate in any aspect of the Governance Process.

(COMMENT)

In this time frame 1940 thru 1950, countries like the various Mandates ultimately created followed a "Just War Doctrine" or Jus ad bellum. This was particularly true in the Middle East; indeed, much of the territory and sovereignty of Arabia, Europe, and the Americas follow from the Use of Armed Force. In the case of the Arab League attack on Israel on its Declaration of Independence, the Arab League uses the pretext of the attack as a Humanitarian intervention – where the Arab League may use force with Israel to protect the Arab Palestinian nationals of the "newly independent state."

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel, as a "Successor State" to the territory which was dependent (for the international relations diplomatic and legalities) to the "Predecessor State" (the appointed Mandatory: Britain).​

Britain passed the torch to the UNPC not to Israel.

There are some other problems with your successor state thing.

One, there needs to be a treaty ceding territory to the successor state.

Another is a problem with citizenship.

Chapter 3: Citizenship, International Conventions and Financial Obligations
The Avalon Project : UN General Assembly Resolution 181

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think that you are trying to question the Israeli "right of self-determination"...

There are several UN resolutions stating that the Palestinians have the right to self determination, however, I have never seen one that says the same thing about Israel.

(REFERENCES)

* To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace; Article 1(2), UN Charter.

International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
PART I
Article 1
​

1. All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

2. All peoples may, for their own ends, freely dispose of their natural wealth and resources without prejudice to any obligations arising out of international economic co-operation, based upon the principle of mutual benefit, and international law. In no case may a people be deprived of its own means of subsistence.

3. The States Parties to the present Covenant, including those having responsibility for the administration of Non-Self-Governing and Trust Territories, shall promote the realization of the right of self-determination, and shall respect that right, in conformity with the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations.
​

(COMMENT)

Self-determination is applied to everyone. The International Law and the 1945 UN Charter, are in agreement: "All peoples have the right of self-determination."

Israel, as a "Successor State" to the territory which was dependent (for the international relations diplomatic and legalities) to the "Predecessor State" (the appointed Mandatory: Britain).

The British Mandate was not a state. It was a temporarily appointed administration.

(REFERENCE)

Vienna Convention on Succession of States in respect of Treaties
Done at Vienna on 23 August 1978

Article 2
Use of terms
​

1.For the purposes of the present Convention:

(b) “succession of States” means the replacement of one State by another in the responsibility for the international relations of territory;

(c) “predecessor State” means the State which has been replaced by another State on the occurrence of a succession of States;

(d) “successor State” means the State which has replaced another State on the occurrence of a succession of States;

(e) “date of the succession of States” means the date upon which the successor State replaced the predecessor State in the responsibility for the international relations of the territory to which the succession of States relates;

(f) “newly independent State” means a successor State the territory of which immediately before the date of the succession of States was a dependent territory for the international relations of which the predecessor State was responsible;
​

(COMMENT)

As you know, Israel was a "newly independent state" (declared 15 May 1948) when it was invaded by external forces. Notice that the international law (supra --- " f " ---) speaks about the "territory" and "dependent territory." The territory to which the Mandate applied was a "dependent territory" --- dependent on the Mandatory for Government; which then transferred to from the British to the UNPC.

(EPILOG)

What I find interesting is that the Arab Palestinians think they are unique in some manner. In this case, it is about the implication where the Arab Palestinians (who rejected participation in the Government Administration) have the unique right to self-determination; whereas the Jewish Immigrant establishing the Jewish National Home under the guidance of the Mandatory, and following the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" do not have the same right.

Most Respectfully,
R

​

 

[Shusha]

There are several UN resolutions stating that the Palestinians have the right to self determination, however, I have never seen one that says the same thing about Israel.

Wait. Wait. Weren't you the one so vehemently arguing not more than a few weeks ago that human rights aren't dependent on someone granting them -- but that they are inherent and inviolable? I'm certain that was you.

So - now you are saying that some people have no rights to self-determination as an inherent human right?

What gives?

 

[P F Tinmore]

There are several UN resolutions stating that the Palestinians have the right to self determination, however, I have never seen one that says the same thing about Israel.

Wait. Wait. Weren't you the one so vehemently arguing not more than a few weeks ago that human rights aren't dependent on someone granting them -- but that they are inherent and inviolable? I'm certain that was you.

So - now you are saying that some people have no rights to self-determination as an inherent human right?

What gives?

Your first statement is correct.

Your second statement shows that you are confused over the meaning of a people.

 

[Shusha]

Your second statement shows that you are confused over the meaning of a people.

Oh seriously? You are in the "Jews are not a people" camp? Groan.