The Poisoning of Flint, MI.

[sealybobo]

Cuomo is also looking at investigations in NY, but he's a democrat so you give him a pass.

No hypocrisy here, I just refuse to jump on the "blame them without actual evidence just because I don't like them" bandwagon.

Your side continues to equate political disagreement with warranting criminal prosecution, and you look for any little thing (or big thing early in the investigation) to attempt to latch some legitimacy to your blatant political grievances.

LOL, do you live in a cave? Darryl Issa ring a bell? Calling you a hypocrite is high praise.

No hypocrisy here. The only thing in this thread is your willful ignorance of any hint of funny business as long as there isn't an (R) after the politician's name.

It is funny...Mrs BJ commits high crimes with her emails and the left yawns. Michigan governor may have had little involvement, but to the left he must resign and face prosecution.

Their blatant partisanship is clear to all but themselves.

You've made an allegation that HRC committed high crimes with her e-mails, but missing from your allegation is any evidence. In fact no harm has ever been reported resultant from her use of a private server; certainly none which reaches to the high crime of poisoning a civilian population.

Your use of "Mrs BJ" is evidence that you're are a partisan jerk not smart enough to post anything of substance, and thus you need to echo other crazy right wingers. You're pitiful.

I am a partisan jerk...too funny coming from you.

It is clear she broke the law. Now...is she above the law or not?

Mrs. BJ is an apt name for her....too bad you are so foolish as to put lying thieving corrupt politicians above name calling. When will you learn that ALL politicians are scumbags until prove otherwise? Mrs. BJ is a proven scumbag, but your silly partisanship prevents you from accepting the truth.

Meanwhile GOP policies are killing us.

Any surprise we don't trust you scum on global warming?

 

[tinydancer]

I read most of the thread and would have to agree with the Snyder antagonists It sounds as though Snyder knew of the frightful problem and ignored it. He should be impeached. BTW, I only recwall one link in the entire thread. Links help determine the truth. I wouldn't agree the Maddow is an origin of truth.

Ah Jackson this issue in Flint is the perfect case example of that old addage...

"When we practice to deceive what a tangled web we weave".

Links more than available. I had this up in another thread. Maddow is NOT to be trusted.

You can start with the blame here.

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

December 21, 2015 Siddhartha Roy Articles
After missing warning signs of spiking childhood lead poisoning that occurred few months after switching to a corrosive river water source in 2014, outside pressure forced officials at the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) to closely scrutinize their data in July 2015. They discovered scientifically conclusive evidence of an anomalous increase in childhood lead poisoning in summer 2014 immediately after the switch in water sources, but stood by silently as Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (MDEQ) officials repeatedly and falsely stated that no spike in blood lead levels (BLL) of children had occurred. DHHS employees later stonewalled efforts by outside researchers who questioned MDEQ statements and withheld damning documents but released incomplete data suggesting that there were no problems — DHHS officials ultimately fessed up only after incidence of childhood lead poisoning skyrocketed above 10% in the two Flint zip codes with highest water lead risk during summer 2015!

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

 

[jon_berzerk]

oh tiny besides that

there is a long long line of democrats tangled in this mess

 

[tinydancer]

Now lets get some truth out here. Check out what happened when the woman who blew this wide open contacted the Health Department.

She was freaking told her child was are you freaking ready? That her son was barely led poisoned. I'm telling you I was spitting bullets when I read this.

Check it out.

"DHHS’ engagement in the Flint water crisis, started in early 2015 with two phone calls from Lee-Anne Walters to a state lead poisoning nurse in Lansing identified only as “Karen.” When asked about the phone call last night, Walters said she was at first expressing concern over high lead in water measurements in Flint, but on the second call she was in tears because her son’s blood lead had increased to 6.5 ug/dL.


According to Walters, “Karen” stated that “He is barely lead poisoned. If CDC had not changed their lead poisoning standard from 10 down to 5, we would not be having this conversation.” Angry, Walters protested that Karen was minimizing the problem, at which point “Karen” cut her off and said “I am working with kids in their 40’s and 50’s. It is just a few IQ points…it is not the end of the world.” FOIA e-mails do reveal a “Karen” at DHHS who acknowledged receiving phone calls on the dates Walters called (the caller’s name is redacted in the FOIA), but elsewhere this person reveals to colleagues that the last time she actually worked with a child who had blood lead above 45 ug/dL was in 2009."

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

 

[tinydancer]

oh tiny besides that

there is a long long line of democrats tangled in this mess

Oh yes there are.For true.

But what I am most pissed off about is right from the get go the first thing Dems do is turn this nightmare into a political circus instead of focusing on the real issue of the individuals involved in the system that were not just misleading the public they were out right lying.

Fudging data.

But noooooooooooooooooooo everything has to be the Republican Governor's fault. Just like they tried to blame Detroit's bankruptcy on Snyder too.

 

[jon_berzerk]

oh tiny besides that

there is a long long line of democrats tangled in this mess

Oh yes there are.For true.

But what I am most pissed off about is right from the get go the first thing Dems do is turn this nightmare into a political circus instead of focusing on the real issue of the individuals involved in the system that were not just misleading the public they were out right lying.

Fudging data.

But noooooooooooooooooooo everything has to be the Republican Governor's fault. Just like they tried to blame Detroit's bankruptcy on Snyder too.

they always do that is the nature of the democrat beast

party first the people second

 

[tinydancer]

Over the past few weeks, Rachel Maddow has been covering the water situation in Flint, MI.

Snyder admin allowed Flint to drink toxic water despite warnings

Rick Snyder administration in Michigan new about reports of the toxicity of Flint's water while the town continued to drink it, resulting in the lead poisoning of some residents, including children, and even rejected Flint's democratically elected council's vote to change water sources.

Yes, they are videos but I highly recommend watching them. What the governor's office did borders on criminal negligence. They intentionally ignored warnings and tried to discredit those that came forward.

Children of Flint will have permanent damage from the lead poisoning caused by his gross negligence.

No one in the Governor's office ignored any warnings. He was lied to as well by the Michigan Health Department. Just as the Flint City Council was lied to. Just as the people were lied to.

 

[jon_berzerk]

speaking of Detroit

can the city even bury its dead yet

 

[ClosedCaption]

Rachel Maddow should be charged with poisoning people with hate. Why anyone listens to that ugly dyke is beyond me.

What is the time for poisoning with hate and when do you turn yourself in?

 

[TooTall]

He did no such thing.

Well, there are many 'such things' listed in the post you were responding to, so which thing is the 'no such thing' of which you speak? Let's take them one by one, shall we?

1 - Poisoned the people of Flint

Many state legislators and Flint residents have blamed the state government, in particular Governor Rick Snyder, for the lead poisoning; a state-appointed emergency manager was running Flint when the call was made to save money by changing the water supply. Flint restored its connection to the Detroit water system in mid-October, but the damage is already done to thousands of children. Based on this, and the fact that the city's efforts to restore Detroit water were impeded by the Snyder administration (as explained in the video clip), this would qualify as a true statement.


2 - He knew it and didn't stop it

Through a public records request, Marc Edwards, a civil engineering professor at Virginia Tech, uncovered a July 2015 memo warning of elevated lead levels in Flint kids' blood.


3 - He lied about it, tried to discredit the people that warned him about it...and then had to admit it

Other emails obtained by Edwards indicate that the data had been sent to the director of the DHHS, as well as to the office of Gov. Rick Snyder (R), sometime between July and September.

Snyder may not have done so personally, but he is responsible for his administration, and his administration certainly seems to have done so.


Of course, you're free to disagree with all of this Rabbi. But seeing as there has been ample evidence presented at this point you're going to need to provide something a little more substantive than your standard bitch fit to support your position.

July 2015 and the EPA didn't do anything? They have the big hammer in cases like these.

 

[TooTall]

Did he force the residents to drink the tap water?

Pretty much, yeah.

Really? when and how did Rick Snyder go about doing this? Did he force the dumb fucks in flint to use lead plumbing too?

Are you even paying attention? Do you know anything about this? Or are you just talking for the sake of hearing your own voice?

WTF are you babbling about? Or didn't you realize that lead wasn't introduced into the water supply naturally?

There is lead in most water pipes. What happened was that the water source was switched from lake water to river water. River water is more corrosive due to the higher levels of salt and must be treated before it enters the pipes or it will corrode them, releasing lead into the water.

The state KNEW that the lead levels were going up. Instead of doing something about it when they first learned of it, they tried to discredit all the people that pointed the fact out to them.

Gross and willful negligence poisoned the people of Flint.

The state did not know the lead levels were going up since that could only be detected at a homeowners faucet that had lead pipes to the house.

 

[tinydancer]

oh tiny besides that

there is a long long line of democrats tangled in this mess

Oh yes there are.For true.

But what I am most pissed off about is right from the get go the first thing Dems do is turn this nightmare into a political circus instead of focusing on the real issue of the individuals involved in the system that were not just misleading the public they were out right lying.

Fudging data.

But noooooooooooooooooooo everything has to be the Republican Governor's fault. Just like they tried to blame Detroit's bankruptcy on Snyder too.

they always do that is the nature of the democrat beast

party first the people second

No guff. They never take responsibility for jack shit.

Take Bengazi for example. It wasn't a terror attack. It was a protest with mortars.

Because an anti muslim video made by a right wing yeah yeah that's the ticket. An anti muslim video made by a right wing tea partier caused the protest that ended in a riot. Yeah yeah that's the ticket!

It was a republican tea party anti muslim video yeah yeah that killed the Ambassador. That's the ticket.

See? Right wing Republicans are to blame for Benghazi.



They do it all the time.

 

[tinydancer]

speaking of Detroit

can the city even bury its dead yet

It's been hard for me to watch Detroit go down the tubes. I knew the glory days when there was a renaissance for a bit. It used to be an awesome city. Pity.

 

[tinydancer]

He did no such thing.

Well, there are many 'such things' listed in the post you were responding to, so which thing is the 'no such thing' of which you speak? Let's take them one by one, shall we?

1 - Poisoned the people of Flint

Many state legislators and Flint residents have blamed the state government, in particular Governor Rick Snyder, for the lead poisoning; a state-appointed emergency manager was running Flint when the call was made to save money by changing the water supply. Flint restored its connection to the Detroit water system in mid-October, but the damage is already done to thousands of children. Based on this, and the fact that the city's efforts to restore Detroit water were impeded by the Snyder administration (as explained in the video clip), this would qualify as a true statement.


2 - He knew it and didn't stop it

Through a public records request, Marc Edwards, a civil engineering professor at Virginia Tech, uncovered a July 2015 memo warning of elevated lead levels in Flint kids' blood.


3 - He lied about it, tried to discredit the people that warned him about it...and then had to admit it

Other emails obtained by Edwards indicate that the data had been sent to the director of the DHHS, as well as to the office of Gov. Rick Snyder (R), sometime between July and September.

Snyder may not have done so personally, but he is responsible for his administration, and his administration certainly seems to have done so.


Of course, you're free to disagree with all of this Rabbi. But seeing as there has been ample evidence presented at this point you're going to need to provide something a little more substantive than your standard bitch fit to support your position.

July 2015 and the EPA didn't do anything? They have the big hammer in cases like these.

Here's a good solid non political explaination of how this all went down Too Tall. Solid anatomy and worth the read. Snyder wasn't involved. He was lied to as well.

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

December 21, 2015 Siddhartha Roy Articles
After missing warning signs of spiking childhood lead poisoning that occurred few months after switching to a corrosive river water source in 2014, outside pressure forced officials at the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) to closely scrutinize their data in July 2015. They discovered scientifically conclusive evidence of an anomalous increase in childhood lead poisoning in summer 2014 immediately after the switch in water sources, but stood by silently as Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (MDEQ) officials repeatedly and falsely stated that no spike in blood lead levels (BLL) of children had occurred. DHHS employees later stonewalled efforts by outside researchers who questioned MDEQ statements and withheld damning documents but released incomplete data suggesting that there were no problems — DHHS officials ultimately fessed up only after incidence of childhood lead poisoning skyrocketed above 10% in the two Flint zip codes with highest water lead risk during summer 2015!

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

 

[TooTall]

Actually the charter for local rule (home rule) flows from the State Constitution, and thus depending on the constitution the State can suspend local rule depending on the rules of such suspension and the need.

Flint ran itself into the ground. The Governor appointed a Manager to fix it.

The Democratic process was not overruled, as people still had votes for their State officers and representatives.

Roger and Me ring a bell Marty?

For those who fall for ths lies of omission, herein is a summary:

Ex-journalist Michael Moore demands answers when General Motors suddenly closes the doors of all its auto plants in the Flint, Michigan, the city where he grew up. With over 30,000 people out of work, Flint is economically devastated, and Moore aims to track down General Motors CEO Roger Smith to make him answer for his actions. While on the search, Moore also chronicles the emotional effect the closings have had on his family and friends, while violent crimes begin to skyrocket in Flint.

To those jerks who make fun of this issue, point fingers at liberals and Democrats, the only thing proved by your attitude is you are each racist, bigots and fools. Deny it all you please, your words are evidence of the truth of this conclusion.

How many decades have they had to try and rectify the situation?

Non Sequitur ^^^, but in reply, how many years has Obama had to try to rectify the problems created by his predecessor.

Not at all. You are digging up a decades old movie about a decades old situation, and I replied.

and Obama's had 7 years now, and you still blame Boooooosh for everything, so at least you are consistent.

Simply stated, the decades old problem has been identified and yet remains a festering wound. Thus the problem remains one seeking a remedy. Penny wise and pound foolish while kicking the problem down the road is the conservative way.

Bush didn't create the problem, GM did. Bush created a more serious problem by sending our troops into harms way unprepared, telling the enemy bring it on which they did, and in the process put 4,500 of our troops in the ground.

And the result was Flint Michigan water had lead in it. Good catch!

 

[Jackson]

I read most of the thread and would have to agree with the Snyder antagonists It sounds as though Snyder knew of the frightful problem and ignored it. He should be impeached. BTW, I only recwall one link in the entire thread. Links help determine the truth. I wouldn't agree the Maddow is an origin of truth.

Ah Jackson this issue in Flint is the perfect case example of that old addage...

"When we practice to deceive what a tangled web we weave".

Links more than available. I had this up in another thread. Maddow is NOT to be trusted.

You can start with the blame here.

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

December 21, 2015 Siddhartha Roy Articles
After missing warning signs of spiking childhood lead poisoning that occurred few months after switching to a corrosive river water source in 2014, outside pressure forced officials at the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) to closely scrutinize their data in July 2015. They discovered scientifically conclusive evidence of an anomalous increase in childhood lead poisoning in summer 2014 immediately after the switch in water sources, but stood by silently as Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (MDEQ) officials repeatedly and falsely stated that no spike in blood lead levels (BLL) of children had occurred. DHHS employees later stonewalled efforts by outside researchers who questioned MDEQ statements and withheld damning documents but released incomplete data suggesting that there were no problems — DHHS officials ultimately fessed up only after incidence of childhood lead poisoning skyrocketed above 10% in the two Flint zip codes with highest water lead risk during summer 2015!

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

Why did MHD do that?

 

[peach174]

I read most of the thread and would have to agree with the Snyder antagonists It sounds as though Snyder knew of the frightful problem and ignored it. He should be impeached. BTW, I only recwall one link in the entire thread. Links help determine the truth. I wouldn't agree the Maddow is an origin of truth.

Ah Jackson this issue in Flint is the perfect case example of that old addage...

"When we practice to deceive what a tangled web we weave".

Links more than available. I had this up in another thread. Maddow is NOT to be trusted.

You can start with the blame here.

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

December 21, 2015 Siddhartha Roy Articles
After missing warning signs of spiking childhood lead poisoning that occurred few months after switching to a corrosive river water source in 2014, outside pressure forced officials at the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) to closely scrutinize their data in July 2015. They discovered scientifically conclusive evidence of an anomalous increase in childhood lead poisoning in summer 2014 immediately after the switch in water sources, but stood by silently as Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (MDEQ) officials repeatedly and falsely stated that no spike in blood lead levels (BLL) of children had occurred. DHHS employees later stonewalled efforts by outside researchers who questioned MDEQ statements and withheld damning documents but released incomplete data suggesting that there were no problems — DHHS officials ultimately fessed up only after incidence of childhood lead poisoning skyrocketed above 10% in the two Flint zip codes with highest water lead risk during summer 2015!

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

Why did MHD do that?

They didn't realize that because of all of the pollution and chemicals added in the water damaged the old pipes, which caused the lead leaking and they know it would be very costly if it came out.

 

[tinydancer]

I read most of the thread and would have to agree with the Snyder antagonists It sounds as though Snyder knew of the frightful problem and ignored it. He should be impeached. BTW, I only recwall one link in the entire thread. Links help determine the truth. I wouldn't agree the Maddow is an origin of truth.

Ah Jackson this issue in Flint is the perfect case example of that old addage...

"When we practice to deceive what a tangled web we weave".

Links more than available. I had this up in another thread. Maddow is NOT to be trusted.

You can start with the blame here.

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

December 21, 2015 Siddhartha Roy Articles
After missing warning signs of spiking childhood lead poisoning that occurred few months after switching to a corrosive river water source in 2014, outside pressure forced officials at the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) to closely scrutinize their data in July 2015. They discovered scientifically conclusive evidence of an anomalous increase in childhood lead poisoning in summer 2014 immediately after the switch in water sources, but stood by silently as Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (MDEQ) officials repeatedly and falsely stated that no spike in blood lead levels (BLL) of children had occurred. DHHS employees later stonewalled efforts by outside researchers who questioned MDEQ statements and withheld damning documents but released incomplete data suggesting that there were no problems — DHHS officials ultimately fessed up only after incidence of childhood lead poisoning skyrocketed above 10% in the two Flint zip codes with highest water lead risk during summer 2015!

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

Why did MHD do that?

Go figure. They lied. They misled. It was CYA on a mega industrial scale.

Grab this. Not sure if you've seen my other posts on this. This one had my head spinning because the Nurse told the mother that her son was "barely lead poisoned".

"DHHS’ engagement in the Flint water crisis, started in early 2015 with two phone calls from Lee-Anne Walters to a state lead poisoning nurse in Lansing identified only as “Karen.” When asked about the phone call last night, Walters said she was at first expressing concern over high lead in water measurements in Flint, but on the second call she was in tears because her son’s blood lead had increased to 6.5 ug/dL.


According to Walters, “Karen” stated that “He is barely lead poisoned. If CDC had not changed their lead poisoning standard from 10 down to 5, we would not be having this conversation.” Angry, Walters protested that Karen was minimizing the problem, at which point “Karen” cut her off and said “I am working with kids in their 40’s and 50’s. It is just a few IQ points…it is not the end of the world.” FOIA e-mails do reveal a “Karen” at DHHS who acknowledged receiving phone calls on the dates Walters called (the caller’s name is redacted in the FOIA), but elsewhere this person reveals to colleagues that the last time she actually worked with a child who had blood lead above 45 ug/dL was in 2009."

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

 

[tinydancer]

Now as far as this being a Republican scandal? Really? National Review does a great summation.

In sum: The Democratic government of a Democratic city destroys that city’s finances so thoroughly that it must go into state receivership;

a Democratic emergency manager signs off on a consensus plan to use a temporary water source;

the municipal authorities in that Democratic city responsible for treating and monitoring drinking water fail to do their job;

a state agency whose employees work under the tender attention of SEIU Local 517 fails to do its job overseeing the local authorities;

Barack Obama’s EPA, having been informed about the issue, keeps mum. Republican scandal.

Read more at: Flint Is Not a Republican Scandal

 

[TooTall]

He did no such thing.

Well, there are many 'such things' listed in the post you were responding to, so which thing is the 'no such thing' of which you speak? Let's take them one by one, shall we?

1 - Poisoned the people of Flint

Many state legislators and Flint residents have blamed the state government, in particular Governor Rick Snyder, for the lead poisoning; a state-appointed emergency manager was running Flint when the call was made to save money by changing the water supply. Flint restored its connection to the Detroit water system in mid-October, but the damage is already done to thousands of children. Based on this, and the fact that the city's efforts to restore Detroit water were impeded by the Snyder administration (as explained in the video clip), this would qualify as a true statement.


2 - He knew it and didn't stop it

Through a public records request, Marc Edwards, a civil engineering professor at Virginia Tech, uncovered a July 2015 memo warning of elevated lead levels in Flint kids' blood.


3 - He lied about it, tried to discredit the people that warned him about it...and then had to admit it

Other emails obtained by Edwards indicate that the data had been sent to the director of the DHHS, as well as to the office of Gov. Rick Snyder (R), sometime between July and September.

Snyder may not have done so personally, but he is responsible for his administration, and his administration certainly seems to have done so.


Of course, you're free to disagree with all of this Rabbi. But seeing as there has been ample evidence presented at this point you're going to need to provide something a little more substantive than your standard bitch fit to support your position.

July 2015 and the EPA didn't do anything? They have the big hammer in cases like these.

Here's a good solid non political explaination of how this all went down Too Tall. Solid anatomy and worth the read. Snyder wasn't involved. He was lied to as well.

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

December 21, 2015 Siddhartha Roy Articles
After missing warning signs of spiking childhood lead poisoning that occurred few months after switching to a corrosive river water source in 2014, outside pressure forced officials at the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) to closely scrutinize their data in July 2015. They discovered scientifically conclusive evidence of an anomalous increase in childhood lead poisoning in summer 2014 immediately after the switch in water sources, but stood by silently as Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (MDEQ) officials repeatedly and falsely stated that no spike in blood lead levels (BLL) of children had occurred. DHHS employees later stonewalled efforts by outside researchers who questioned MDEQ statements and withheld damning documents but released incomplete data suggesting that there were no problems — DHHS officials ultimately fessed up only after incidence of childhood lead poisoning skyrocketed above 10% in the two Flint zip codes with highest water lead risk during summer 2015!

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

Good article, but the only one on the board that explains what happened is martybegan.