Kevin_Kennedy
Defend Liberty
- Aug 27, 2008
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- #21
Well the same author is back with another piece on libertarians.
Libertarians: Still a cult - Salon.com
I'll address a few points.
It's not surprising that his last article upset many libertarians, given how dismissive it was of their political beliefs. People tend to get angry when they're insulted, regardless of their political ideology. As for the cult nonsense, I think Tom Woods once again has the best response.
"Right. Libertarianism is the cult. Not the state! There’s nothing cultish at all about allegiance to the state, with its flags, its songs, its mass murders, its little children saluting and paying homage to pictures of their dear leaders on the wall, etc."
Michael Lind Pretends I Don?t Exist | Tom Woods
Being anti-statist is not necessarily the same thing as being an anarchist, though there are anarchist libertarians as well, of course. But this is not a response to those critics at all. In fact, it is blatantly not a response at all. It's explicitly saying that any response to his original claims should be ignored completely. This is textbook deflection. "Don't listen to my critics, because they're crazy." The irony being that this is his second column on the subject.
This is false, as I can and did point to a period in the history of the United States that was very libertarian. The period under the Articles of Confederation, which could be considered libertarian in their construction of government. This is not, however, to say that the government was perfectly libertarian, which is the straw-man Lind is trying to create here. I'll go back to my original post where I made the point that no country is ever perfectly one ideology or another at any point in time. There has never been a perfectly liberal government, whatever that would be, or a perfectly conservative government. There has never been a perfectly socialist or communist government, and no, there has never been a perfectly libertarian government.
If that's his basis for rejecting libertarianism, however, then one suspects Lind must also reject his own political ideology, whatever that is.
Still waiting on my check from the Koch brothers for my original response to this nonsense.
Libertarians: Still a cult - Salon.com
I'll address a few points.
My previous Salon essay, in which I asked why there are not any libertarian countries, if libertarianism is a sound political philosophy, has infuriated members of the tiny but noisy libertarian sect, as criticisms of cults by outsiders usually do.
It's not surprising that his last article upset many libertarians, given how dismissive it was of their political beliefs. People tend to get angry when they're insulted, regardless of their political ideology. As for the cult nonsense, I think Tom Woods once again has the best response.
"Right. Libertarianism is the cult. Not the state! There’s nothing cultish at all about allegiance to the state, with its flags, its songs, its mass murders, its little children saluting and paying homage to pictures of their dear leaders on the wall, etc."
Michael Lind Pretends I Don?t Exist | Tom Woods
An unscientific survey of the blogosphere turns up a number of libertarians claiming in response to my essay that, because libertarianism is anti-statist, to ask for an example of a real-world libertarian state shows a failure to understand libertarianism. But if the libertarian ideal is a stateless society, then libertarianism is merely a different name for utopian anarchism and deserves to be similarly ignored.
Being anti-statist is not necessarily the same thing as being an anarchist, though there are anarchist libertarians as well, of course. But this is not a response to those critics at all. In fact, it is blatantly not a response at all. It's explicitly saying that any response to his original claims should be ignored completely. This is textbook deflection. "Don't listen to my critics, because they're crazy." The irony being that this is his second column on the subject.
Protectionist, nativist paleoconservatives of the Patrick Buchanan school might have reason to idealize the U.S. as it existed between 1865 and 1932. But libertarians who want to prove that a country based on libertarian ideology can exist in the real world cannot point to the United States at any period in its history from the Founding to the present.
This is false, as I can and did point to a period in the history of the United States that was very libertarian. The period under the Articles of Confederation, which could be considered libertarian in their construction of government. This is not, however, to say that the government was perfectly libertarian, which is the straw-man Lind is trying to create here. I'll go back to my original post where I made the point that no country is ever perfectly one ideology or another at any point in time. There has never been a perfectly liberal government, whatever that would be, or a perfectly conservative government. There has never been a perfectly socialist or communist government, and no, there has never been a perfectly libertarian government.
If that's his basis for rejecting libertarianism, however, then one suspects Lind must also reject his own political ideology, whatever that is.
The weak logic and bad scholarship that suffuse libertarian responses to my article tend to reinforce me in my view that, if they were not paid so well to churn out anti-government propaganda by plutocrats like the Koch brothers and various self-interested corporations, libertarians would play no greater role in public debate than do the followers of Lyndon LaRouche or L. Ron Hubbard.
Still waiting on my check from the Koch brothers for my original response to this nonsense.