The Republicans’ war on science and reason

[Erand7899]

Global Warming is just an excuse for liberals to tell the "little" people how to live. IF this is so bad, why dont liberals stop doing all the stuff they think causes it. They still drive cars, SUV, fly in planes including the evil private jets, they have HUGE mansions with heated pools, tons of electricity
Al Gore


The average bill for electricity and natural gas runs over $2,400 per month. In natural gas alone, this property consumes more than 20 times the national average for an American home.

And that is ONE of Gore's homes. HE's a hypocrit.

First evidence of a dolt posting on AGW is an attack on Al Gore. Vice President Gore is not a scientist. He put the words of scientists into laymans terms, and did a rather good job of it. He is now an extremely successful businessman.

The people providing the evidence for AGW are scientists, and the vast majority of them state that AGW has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

So, the "scientists" have reviewed their data and have confirmed that the world is getting warmer. Any 12 year old who paid attention is 8th grade science could have told them that was fairly certain. The world has been getting warmer since the apex of the last ice age, and will continue to get warmer until it shifts back toward the next ice age.

The argument has never been over whether the earth is getting warmer, but whether the actions of humans have accelerated the rate of warming. That has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and is still in question. Are we experiencing another spike in temperature, or do we really have a trend going. The midevil warm period and the mini-ice age have proven that those spikes happen, and they were not caused by humans.

 

[Vidi]

Global Warming is just an excuse for liberals to tell the "little" people how to live. IF this is so bad, why dont liberals stop doing all the stuff they think causes it. They still drive cars, SUV, fly in planes including the evil private jets, they have HUGE mansions with heated pools, tons of electricity
Al Gore


The average bill for electricity and natural gas runs over $2,400 per month. In natural gas alone, this property consumes more than 20 times the national average for an American home.

And that is ONE of Gore's homes. HE's a hypocrit.

First evidence of a dolt posting on AGW is an attack on Al Gore. Vice President Gore is not a scientist. He put the words of scientists into laymans terms, and did a rather good job of it. He is now an extremely successful businessman.

The people providing the evidence for AGW are scientists, and the vast majority of them state that AGW has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

whooooa he has his book an movie and liberals point to him as an expert. I agree he's a businessman/scammer pushing his global warming scheme while making money off carbon credits. Carbon credits just let rich people buy out their pollution, do they not? it's a scam. If any of these people seriously belived in the consequences they would change their behavior, yet they don't. So I can pick on any famous liberal that spouts this, none of them practice what they preach.

Letting rich people buy their right to pollution worked with sulfur dioxide emissions.

How we fix the global climate change issue isn't a problem. We've fixed it before. It's deciding IF there is an actual problem to fix that's the issue.

MY problem is that anytime there's a study saying it doesn't exist, it can be traced back to funding from a huge polluter.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Global Warming is just an excuse for liberals to tell the "little" people how to live. IF this is so bad, why dont liberals stop doing all the stuff they think causes it. They still drive cars, SUV, fly in planes including the evil private jets, they have HUGE mansions with heated pools, tons of electricity
Al Gore


The average bill for electricity and natural gas runs over $2,400 per month. In natural gas alone, this property consumes more than 20 times the national average for an American home.

And that is ONE of Gore's homes. HE's a hypocrit.

First evidence of a dolt posting on AGW is an attack on Al Gore. Vice President Gore is not a scientist. He put the words of scientists into laymans terms, and did a rather good job of it. He is now an extremely successful businessman.

The people providing the evidence for AGW are scientists, and the vast majority of them state that AGW has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

So, the "scientists" have reviewed their data and have confirmed that the world is getting warmer. Any 12 year old who paid attention is 8th grade science could have told them that was fairly certain. The world has been getting warmer since the apex of the last ice age, and will continue to get warmer until it shifts back toward the next ice age.

The argument has never been over whether the earth is getting warmer, but whether the actions of humans have accelerated the rate of warming. That has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and is still in question. Are we experiencing another spike in temperature, or do we really have a trend going. The midevil warm period and the mini-ice age have proven that those spikes happen, and they were not caused by humans.

I have peer reviewed this post and it is 100% accurate

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Water Vapor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CO2

See?

 

[Uncensored2008]

They destroyed personal e-mails, not data.

BULLSHIT.

You know damn well they deleted huge amounts of embarrassing data. CRU kept pleading that the data was "misplaced" or "damaged."

They did not have the orginal data, it is kept at the places that it is recorded. Muller used that data for his study.

They destroyed much of the backing for CRU findings that the IPCC based it's bullshit on.

The world is getting warmer,

No, actually it isn't. Because it isn't, the frauds have altered the terminology from "global warming" to "climate change." Global warming simply doesn't work at any level.

We were getting warmer, not "Dust Bowl" warmer, but there was a trend. But that collapsed over a decade ago.

countering the doubts of climate change sceptics about the validity of some of the scientific evidence, according to the most comprehensive independent review of historical temperature records to date.

The problem is that the fraud has been so rampant and overwhelming along with suppression of contrary data and well coordinated hits on any who offer contrary studies, that there is literally no credibility in the evidence. If James Hansen was the only one caught falsifying data, we could write it off as an overzealous and reactionary researcher. If Michael Mann was a rogue us created fraudulent models like the hockey stick, we could damn him.

But this isn't the case, there is a consistent pattern of fraud. Hanson isn't just a fraud, he launched a witch hunt to destroy the lives and careers of young scientists who dared utter any questions about AGW. Mann isn't just a fraud, he acted to block studies that impugned AGW from journals that offer peer review. Phil Jones isn't just a fraud, he criminally destroyed data to hide the extent of the the fraud at CRU.

Over and over, the fraud and sleaze of AGW are inescapable.

Scientists at the University of California, Berkeley, found several key issues that sceptics claim can skew global warming figures had no meaningful effect.

At this point, can we trust them? Isn't proven fraud Mann at Berkley now?

The Berkeley Earth project compiled more than a billion temperature records dating back to the 1800s from 15 sources around the world and found that the average global land temperature has risen by around 1C since the mid-1950s.

Yes, and failed to account for urban heat sinks and dozens of other obvious factors.

Berkeley took a conclusion and found or fabricated evidence to support it. That ain't science.

This figure agrees with the estimate arrived at by major groups that maintain official records on the world's climate, including Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (Noaa), and the Met Office's Hadley Centre, with the University of East Anglia, in the UK.

"My hope is that this will win over those people who are properly sceptical," Richard Muller, a physicist and head of the project, said.

"Some people lump the properly sceptical in with the deniers and that makes it easy to dismiss them, because the deniers pay no attention to science. But there have been people out there who have raised legitimate issues."

Muller sought to cool the debate over climate change by creating the largest open database of temperature records, with the aim of producing a transparent and independent assessment of global warming.

The initial reluctance of government groups to release all their methods and data, and the fiasco over emails from the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit in 2009, gave the project added impetus.

The team, which includes Saul Perlmutter, joint winner of this year's Nobel Prize in Physics for the discovery that the universe is expanding at an increasing rate, has submitted four papers to the journal Geophysical Research Letters that describe their work to date.

Until some level of integrity is returned to the scientific method in regard to climate studies, nothing in the field can be trusted.

Sorry, there is simply no credibility in the cesspool of fraud know as climatology.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

They destroyed personal e-mails, not data.

BULLSHIT.

You know damn well they deleted huge amounts of embarrassing data. CRU kept pleading that the data was "misplaced" or "damaged."

They did not have the orginal data, it is kept at the places that it is recorded. Muller used that data for his study.

They destroyed much of the backing for CRU findings that the IPCC based it's bullshit on.



No, actually it isn't. Because it isn't, the frauds have altered the terminology from "global warming" to "climate change." Global warming simply doesn't work at any level.

We were getting warmer, not "Dust Bowl" warmer, but there was a trend. But that collapsed over a decade ago.



The problem is that the fraud has been so rampant and overwhelming along with suppression of contrary data and well coordinated hits on any who offer contrary studies, that there is literally no credibility in the evidence. If James Hansen was the only one caught falsifying data, we could write it off as an overzealous and reactionary researcher. If Michael Mann was a rogue us created fraudulent models like the hockey stick, we could damn him.

But this isn't the case, there is a consistent pattern of fraud. Hanson isn't just a fraud, he launched a witch hunt to destroy the lives and careers of young scientists who dared utter any questions about AGW. Mann isn't just a fraud, he acted to block studies that impugned AGW from journals that offer peer review. Phil Jones isn't just a fraud, he criminally destroyed data to hide the extent of the the fraud at CRU.

Over and over, the fraud and sleaze of AGW are inescapable.



At this point, can we trust them? Isn't proven fraud Mann at Berkley now?

The Berkeley Earth project compiled more than a billion temperature records dating back to the 1800s from 15 sources around the world and found that the average global land temperature has risen by around 1C since the mid-1950s.

Yes, and failed to account for urban heat sinks and dozens of other obvious factors.

Berkeley took a conclusion and found or fabricated evidence to support it. That ain't science.

This figure agrees with the estimate arrived at by major groups that maintain official records on the world's climate, including Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (Noaa), and the Met Office's Hadley Centre, with the University of East Anglia, in the UK.

"My hope is that this will win over those people who are properly sceptical," Richard Muller, a physicist and head of the project, said.

"Some people lump the properly sceptical in with the deniers and that makes it easy to dismiss them, because the deniers pay no attention to science. But there have been people out there who have raised legitimate issues."

Muller sought to cool the debate over climate change by creating the largest open database of temperature records, with the aim of producing a transparent and independent assessment of global warming.

The initial reluctance of government groups to release all their methods and data, and the fiasco over emails from the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit in 2009, gave the project added impetus.

The team, which includes Saul Perlmutter, joint winner of this year's Nobel Prize in Physics for the discovery that the universe is expanding at an increasing rate, has submitted four papers to the journal Geophysical Research Letters that describe their work to date.

Until some level of integrity is returned to the scientific method in regard to climate studies, nothing in the field can be trusted.

Sorry, there is simply no credibility in the cesspool of fraud know as climatology.

That's a clinic!

It's their vision of an all powerful government running every aspect of everybody's life that sustains them. It's not science, it's not honor, it's not even common sense. They threw all that aside and work without question to take control of the US economy through the Faux "Science" of ManMade Global Warming Climate Change (or disruption)

 

[buckeye45_73]

Global Warming is just an excuse for liberals to tell the "little" people how to live. IF this is so bad, why dont liberals stop doing all the stuff they think causes it. They still drive cars, SUV, fly in planes including the evil private jets, they have HUGE mansions with heated pools, tons of electricity
Al Gore


The average bill for electricity and natural gas runs over $2,400 per month. In natural gas alone, this property consumes more than 20 times the national average for an American home.

And that is ONE of Gore's homes. HE's a hypocrit.

First evidence of a dolt posting on AGW is an attack on Al Gore. Vice President Gore is not a scientist. He put the words of scientists into laymans terms, and did a rather good job of it. He is now an extremely successful businessman.

The people providing the evidence for AGW are scientists, and the vast majority of them state that AGW has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

So, the "scientists" have reviewed their data and have confirmed that the world is getting warmer. Any 12 year old who paid attention is 8th grade science could have told them that was fairly certain. The world has been getting warmer since the apex of the last ice age, and will continue to get warmer until it shifts back toward the next ice age.

The argument has never been over whether the earth is getting warmer, but whether the actions of humans have accelerated the rate of warming. That has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and is still in question. Are we experiencing another spike in temperature, or do we really have a trend going. The midevil warm period and the mini-ice age have proven that those spikes happen, and they were not caused by humans.

Oh no humans caused the warming with campfires, lumbermills, and cattle! Those thing should all be banned immediately and only rich liberals should be able to have beef, the rest of us should have bark!!!!!!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Climate Change: Evidence


Observe, read and weep!

That's awful! What about millions of years ago?

Tens of millions? Hundreds of millions?

 

[Old Rocks]

Climate Change: Evidence


Observe, read and weep!

That's awful! What about millions of years ago?

Tens of millions? Hundreds of millions?

Which is supposed to mean what?

 

[Old Rocks]

Water Vapor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CO2

See?

Water vapor. Residence time of less than ten days in the atmosphere.

CO2. Residence time measured in centuries.

The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is a feedback from the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

Explaining how the water vapor greenhouse effect works


When skeptics use this argument, they are trying to imply that an increase in CO2 isn't a major problem. If CO2 isn't as powerful as water vapor, which there's already a lot of, adding a little more CO2 couldn't be that bad, right? What this argument misses is the fact that water vapor creates what scientists call a 'positive feedback loop' in the atmosphere — making any temperature changes larger than they would be otherwise.

How does this work? The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere exists in direct relation to the temperature. If you increase the temperature, more water evaporates and becomes vapor, and vice versa. So when something else causes a temperature increase (such as extra CO2 from fossil fuels), more water evaporates. Then, since water vapor is a greenhouse gas, this additional water vapor causes the temperature to go up even further—a positive feedback.

How much does water vapor amplify CO2 warming? Studies show that water vapor feedback roughly doubles the amount of warming caused by CO2. So if there is a 1°C change caused by CO2, the water vapor will cause the temperature to go up another 1°C. When other feedback loops are included, the total warming from a potential 1°C change caused by CO2 is, in reality, as much as 3°C.

The other factor to consider is that water is evaporated from the land and sea and falls as rain or snow all the time. Thus the amount held in the atmosphere as water vapour varies greatly in just hours and days as result of the prevailing weather in any location. So even though water vapour is the greatest greenhouse gas, it is relatively short-lived. On the other hand, CO2 is removed from the air by natural geological-scale processes and these take a long time to work. Consequently CO2 stays in our atmosphere for years and even centuries. A small additional amount has a much more long-term effect.


So skeptics are right in saying that water vapor is the dominant greenhouse gas. What they don't mention is that the water vapor feedback loop actually makes temperature changes caused by CO2 even bigger.

 

[Samson]

Climate Change: Evidence


Observe, read and weep!

All this because CO2 is 100 parts per million higher than its ever been in 650,000 years.

100 parts per million?

Guess what: There's also never been 7 billion people on the planet. All exhaling CO2!

I think there could be a relationship.

Obviously some of you must leave.

 

[Vidi]

Climate Change: Evidence


Observe, read and weep!

All this because CO2 is 100 parts per million higher than its ever been in 650,000 years.

100 parts per million?

Guess what: There's also never been 7 billion people on the planet. All exhaling CO2!

I think there could be a relationship.

Obviously some of you must leave.

Time to cull the herd?

I couldnt agree more.

 

[Old Rocks]

Dr. Richard Alley is one of the world's leading glaciologists, and an expert on paleo-climatology. Here is a presentation he gave at the 2009 American Geophysical Union Conferance. It is about the relationship of CO2 and temperature;

A23A

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This thread in a nutshell....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9vEcesi3H8&feature=youtube_gdata_player]How to do the Hokey Pokey - YouTube[/ame]

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Water Vapor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CO2

See?

Water vapor. Residence time of less than ten days in the atmosphere.

CO2. Residence time measured in centuries.

The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is a feedback from the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

Explaining how the water vapor greenhouse effect works


When skeptics use this argument, they are trying to imply that an increase in CO2 isn't a major problem. If CO2 isn't as powerful as water vapor, which there's already a lot of, adding a little more CO2 couldn't be that bad, right? What this argument misses is the fact that water vapor creates what scientists call a 'positive feedback loop' in the atmosphere — making any temperature changes larger than they would be otherwise.

How does this work? The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere exists in direct relation to the temperature. If you increase the temperature, more water evaporates and becomes vapor, and vice versa. So when something else causes a temperature increase (such as extra CO2 from fossil fuels), more water evaporates. Then, since water vapor is a greenhouse gas, this additional water vapor causes the temperature to go up even further—a positive feedback.

How much does water vapor amplify CO2 warming? Studies show that water vapor feedback roughly doubles the amount of warming caused by CO2. So if there is a 1°C change caused by CO2, the water vapor will cause the temperature to go up another 1°C. When other feedback loops are included, the total warming from a potential 1°C change caused by CO2 is, in reality, as much as 3°C.

The other factor to consider is that water is evaporated from the land and sea and falls as rain or snow all the time. Thus the amount held in the atmosphere as water vapour varies greatly in just hours and days as result of the prevailing weather in any location. So even though water vapour is the greatest greenhouse gas, it is relatively short-lived. On the other hand, CO2 is removed from the air by natural geological-scale processes and these take a long time to work. Consequently CO2 stays in our atmosphere for years and even centuries. A small additional amount has a much more long-term effect.

So skeptics are right in saying that water vapor is the dominant greenhouse gas. What they don't mention is that the water vapor feedback loop actually makes temperature changes caused by CO2 even bigger.

CO2 is a feedback from .01% change in atmosphere from more water vapor.

I can feel it

I have a computer model that shows it

I have consensus

We have settled science

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Climate Change: Evidence


Observe, read and weep!

That's awful! What about millions of years ago?

Tens of millions? Hundreds of millions?

Which is supposed to mean what?

Considering how old the Earth is, that data is a bit limited.

 

[starcraftzzz]

The argument has never been over whether the earth is getting warmer, but whether the actions of humans have accelerated the rate of warming. That has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and is still in question. Are we experiencing another spike in temperature, or do we really have a trend going. The midevil warm period and the mini-ice age have proven that those spikes happen, and they were not caused by humans.

Incorrect it has been proven It is basic 8th grade science. More greenhouse gasses means higher temperatures. Furthermore non human related things that effect temperature show that the earth should be cool (these incldes, volcanoes, sun activity, and dust concentrations)

 

[Mr.Nick]

Too many brilliant scientists on both sides of the argument for me to make a concrete stance on either side.


But also when researching this, research the scientists and find out who they work for and who's paying them.

Or you can just look at climategate and the numerous admissions by politicians and scientists that claim AGW is nothing more than a tool for more authoritarian government.

BTW, you know who is paying these scientists that spew this AGW nonsense??? the federal government er I mean the taxpayers via government grants....

They're nothing more than puppets or whores.... They'll say anything to keep the grant money flowing....

Fuck you too, you know nothing ignoramous.

You are accusing the scientists from all over the world. For every Scientific Society in the world, every National Academy of Science, and every major University states that AGW is a fact, and a clear and present danger.

From Fourier to present, scientists have been presenting the evidence for global warming. Because obese junkies on the radio think that is not the 'way things oughta be' doesn't change the evidence one whit. People like you are willfully ignorant, and proud of your stupidity.

I'm accusing "scientists" of babbling bullshit?.....

"I know nothing?"



Well I at least know how to tie my shoes - and type this message...

Maybe tomorrow I will pick up a newspaper.....

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The argument has never been over whether the earth is getting warmer, but whether the actions of humans have accelerated the rate of warming. That has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and is still in question. Are we experiencing another spike in temperature, or do we really have a trend going. The midevil warm period and the mini-ice age have proven that those spikes happen, and they were not caused by humans.

Incorrect it has been proven It is basic 8th grade science. More greenhouse gasses means higher temperatures. Furthermore non human related things that effect temperature show that the earth should be cool (these incldes, volcanoes, sun activity, and dust concentrations)

It is basic 8th grade science.

That's why the warmers have to keep lying about the data.

 

[Vidi]

Too many brilliant scientists on both sides of the argument for me to make a concrete stance on either side.


But also when researching this, research the scientists and find out who they work for and who's paying them.

Or you can just look at climategate and the numerous admissions by politicians and scientists that claim AGW is nothing more than a tool for more authoritarian government.

BTW, you know who is paying these scientists that spew this AGW nonsense??? the federal government er I mean the taxpayers via government grants....

They're nothing more than puppets or whores.... They'll say anything to keep the grant money flowing....

Yeah, Climategate

After investigating the furious controversy that became “Climategate,” a panel in Britain reported last week that the scientists at East Anglia University—the ones whose e-mails were hacked in late 2009—had not, as global-warming deniers charged, distorted scientific evidence to prove that the planet was heating up primarily because of human activity.

The Climategate hoax - Editorial - Opinions - July 22, 2010 - Sacramento News & Review

Debunked.

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