The Right To Bear Arms

[2aguy]

(Over)Bearing Arms in America

What was once the "tool" of law enforcement types, the military, and hunters is now the equivalent of an iPhone, a talisman of connection and social order. It's something that just about anyone can put in a pocket, a purse, or simply strap on in the full light of day in a land where all of us seem to be heading for the O.K. Corral.

Much More: Over Bearing Arms in America - Tom Engelhardt

I cherish my guns and have been a hunter all my life - but I have mixed emotions about this trend.

Except...we aren't.....more people own and carry guns for protection and the violent crime rate and the accidental gun death rate are going down, not up.....the only O.K. corrals are the inner city, gang infested neighborhoods and their small, multi block killing zones.......and that can be stopped with longer prison sentences for felons caught with guns, and for using a gun to commit a crime....until then, we won't get a handle on violence in those neighborhoods......

 

[Flash]

I have no problem with sane, law-abiding people having and/or carrying guns.

I have a problem with citizens having to get government permission to enjoy a right that is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights.

 

[2aguy]

I have no problem with sane, law-abiding people having and/or carrying guns.

I have a problem with citizens having to get government permission to enjoy a right that is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights.

exactly......

 

[M14 Shooter]

(Over)Bearing Arms in America

What was once the "tool" of law enforcement types, the military, and hunters is now the equivalent of an iPhone, a talisman of connection and social order. It's something that just about anyone can put in a pocket, a purse, or simply strap on in the full light of day in a land where all of us seem to be heading for the O.K. Corral.

Much More: Over Bearing Arms in America - Tom Engelhardt

I cherish my guns and have been a hunter all my life - but I have mixed emotions about this trend.

Obvious troll remains obvious.

 

[2aguy]

On Monday, Panera Bread became the latest U.S. company to ask customers to leave their guns at home.

The bakery-cafe chain joins Starbucks, Chipotle, Target and a handful of other restaurants and retailers in making such a request, which comes amid an increasingly heated debate over the role of guns in public places.

Panera Asks Customers Not To Bring Guns Into Its Restaurants

Good. More companies are wising up. I like Panera Bread.

Hmmmmm...they must be taking their policy advice from the Australian coffee shop, the Kosher Deli in France and any number of other gun free zones that were targets of armed criminals....

See, the thing is simply this....gun control does not work......only locking up criminals who commit crimes with guns works......France has strict gun control, especially of military rifles........and three terrorists, one of whom was a convicted criminal on a government watch list for terrrorism, still managed to get all the military style rifles and pistols they wanted.......who didn't have guns......the normal, law abiding innocent people at the magazine and at the Kosher Deli...gun control completely worked for them....they didn't have one gun among them....

Australia.....another terrorist was able to get a gun in allegedly, strictly gun controlled Australia.....and killed people at a coffee shop, and dittos Canada, where a guy got a gun and killed an unarmed soldier and attacked their parliament....

And then we have Puerto Rico......the strictest gun control in the United States and its territories....and the highest gun murder rate in the world........

So Panera.....they are following in the grand tradition of the gun free killing zones from around the world......

 

[Luddly Neddite]

On Monday, Panera Bread became the latest U.S. company to ask customers to leave their guns at home.

The bakery-cafe chain joins Starbucks, Chipotle, Target and a handful of other restaurants and retailers in making such a request, which comes amid an increasingly heated debate over the role of guns in public places.

Panera Asks Customers Not To Bring Guns Into Its Restaurants

Good. More companies are wising up. I like Panera Bread.

From the article -

The companies that have decided to ask customers to leave guns at home have framed the new policy as a request, saying that they do not want to put employees in the position of confronting an armed customer.
...

Supporters argue that the weapons are frightening, and that it is dangerous to ask shoppers and law enforcement officers to distinguish between people carrying guns peacefully and those intending to do harm.

Fine and good but unenforceable.

We've seen toy guns mistaken for the real thing, children killed and shoppers mistaken for shooters. There's no such thing as "carrying guns peacefully". If one carries a gun, they're looking for an opportunity to use it. That is the main reason to carry a gun.

Be that as it may, at the very least, scared nutters should be required to open carry but, as we've seen here, some would defy that law as well.

We have more guns and they have made us all less safe.

 

[Little-Acorn]

I have a problem with citizens having to get government permission to enjoy a right that is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights.

The purpose of the 2nd amendment was to make sure government had NO say in who can or can't own and carry a gun or other such weapon.

A store owner can ask that people not bring a gun into his store (just as a homeowner can ask that people not being a gun into his house if he wants to). They can forbid a person carrying a gun, entrance into the property. But they can't take the guy's gun away.

Parents can decide their child isn't mature enough to handle a gun.

But government can't.

 

[Little-Acorn]

We have more guns and they have made us all less safe.

I have been waiting a long time for the people who claim to believe this, to put a sign on their front lawn saying:

"Since I believe guns make us less safe, I have removed all guns from this house. Burglars and home invaders, please don't assault or hurt us, because we have made a law against it."

I'm still waiting.

These people don't actually believe it. They are just pretending, so they can further pretend they are somehow better than normal people.

Everything they do and say, is based on fakery, wishful thinking, and lies.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I have a problem with citizens having to get government permission to enjoy a right that is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights.

The purpose of the 2nd amendment was to make sure government had NO say in who can or can't own and carry a gun or other such weapon.

A store owner can ask that people not bring a gun into his store (just as a homeowner can ask that people not being a gun into his house if he wants to). They can forbid a person carrying a gun, entrance into the property. But they can't take the guy's gun away.

Parents can decide their child isn't mature enough to handle a gun.

But government can't.

The purpose of the 2nd amendment was to make sure government had NO say in who can or can't own and carry a gun or other such weapon.

That's incomplete and arguable but it does not take into consideration nutters working to make sure criminals, illegals, terrorists and the mentally ill have free access to any gun they want.

See Billc's revision above.

 

[Little-Acorn]

The purpose of the 2nd amendment was to make sure government had NO say in who can or can't own and carry a gun or other such weapon.

That's incomplete and arguable

TRANSLATION: I can't find any way to refute it.

but it does not take into consideration nutters working to make sure criminals, illegals, terrorists and the mentally ill have free access to any gun they want.

TRANSLATION: Time to change the subject, attack conservatives, call them names, and tell lies about what they are doing.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The purpose of the 2nd amendment was to make sure government had NO say in who can or can't own and carry a gun or other such weapon.

That's incomplete and arguable

TRANSLATION: I can't find any way to refute it.

but it does not take into consideration nutters working to make sure criminals, illegals, terrorists and the mentally ill have free access to any gun they want.

TRANSLATION: Time to change the subject, attack conservatives, call them names, and tell lies about what they are doing.

Don't forget his strawman argument.

 

[turtledude]

The federal government shall not make any law or regulation concerning firearms owned, possessed, used, bought sold or carried by citizens of the United States and the several states.

The commerce clause is limited to the United States of America, the several states and foreign nations. Nothing in the Commerce Clause shall be construed to allow the federal government to pass laws as to the actions of individual citizens

 

[Brain357]

When will the confusing, poorly worded Second Amendment be updated to reflect modern reality?

I have a suggestion for rewording the 2nd amendment.....to reflect modern reality.....

"The Right to Keep and Bear arms is absolute.....and cannot be stopped by either local or federal government, and just because there are people who pretended to not understand the first iteration of this Amendment......let us be clear......people can own, carry and defend themselves with pistols and rifles, especially those used by the current military, but not excluding any others......and no treaties with foreign nations will stop this right......oh......and for those gun grabbers who will try to be clever.....ammo and equipment needed to operate pistols and rifles are off limits as well.....they carry the same protection as the pistols and rifles.....oh.......and again......for those who pretended not to understand the first attempt at this.........this does not mean for a militia....it is an absolute individual right.....get it......."


There....that may need some work, since the gun grabbers will weasle around just about anything you try to do to stop them....but we'll start with this....

So you want people to have machine guns?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

When will the confusing, poorly worded Second Amendment be updated to reflect modern reality?

I have a suggestion for rewording the 2nd amendment.....to reflect modern reality.....

"The Right to Keep and Bear arms is absolute.....and cannot be stopped by either local or federal government, and just because there are people who pretended to not understand the first iteration of this Amendment......let us be clear......people can own, carry and defend themselves with pistols and rifles, especially those used by the current military, but not excluding any others......and no treaties with foreign nations will stop this right......oh......and for those gun grabbers who will try to be clever.....ammo and equipment needed to operate pistols and rifles are off limits as well.....they carry the same protection as the pistols and rifles.....oh.......and again......for those who pretended not to understand the first attempt at this.........this does not mean for a militia....it is an absolute individual right.....get it......."


There....that may need some work, since the gun grabbers will weasle around just about anything you try to do to stop them....but we'll start with this....

So you want people to have machine guns?

Machine Guns are not pistols or rifles. They are machine guns.

 

[Brain357]

When will the confusing, poorly worded Second Amendment be updated to reflect modern reality?

I have a suggestion for rewording the 2nd amendment.....to reflect modern reality.....

"The Right to Keep and Bear arms is absolute.....and cannot be stopped by either local or federal government, and just because there are people who pretended to not understand the first iteration of this Amendment......let us be clear......people can own, carry and defend themselves with pistols and rifles, especially those used by the current military, but not excluding any others......and no treaties with foreign nations will stop this right......oh......and for those gun grabbers who will try to be clever.....ammo and equipment needed to operate pistols and rifles are off limits as well.....they carry the same protection as the pistols and rifles.....oh.......and again......for those who pretended not to understand the first attempt at this.........this does not mean for a militia....it is an absolute individual right.....get it......."


There....that may need some work, since the gun grabbers will weasle around just about anything you try to do to stop them....but we'll start with this....

So you want people to have machine guns?

Machine Guns are not pistols or rifles. They are machine guns.

You are saying an m16 isn't a rifle?

 

[Flash]

I have a problem with citizens having to get government permission to enjoy a right that is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights.

The purpose of the 2nd amendment was to make sure government had NO say in who can or can't own and carry a gun or other such weapon.

A store owner can ask that people not bring a gun into his store (just as a homeowner can ask that people not being a gun into his house if he wants to). They can forbid a person carrying a gun, entrance into the property. But they can't take the guy's gun away.

Parents can decide their child isn't mature enough to handle a gun.

But government can't.

You are correct.

Since Florida is mostly a free state a business owner can post all the signs he wants to tell a customer not to bring in a weapon but that sign has no force of law.

I always ignore those signs and carry anyhow if I want.

I think most states are like that.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

When will the confusing, poorly worded Second Amendment be updated to reflect modern reality?

I have a suggestion for rewording the 2nd amendment.....to reflect modern reality.....

"The Right to Keep and Bear arms is absolute.....and cannot be stopped by either local or federal government, and just because there are people who pretended to not understand the first iteration of this Amendment......let us be clear......people can own, carry and defend themselves with pistols and rifles, especially those used by the current military, but not excluding any others......and no treaties with foreign nations will stop this right......oh......and for those gun grabbers who will try to be clever.....ammo and equipment needed to operate pistols and rifles are off limits as well.....they carry the same protection as the pistols and rifles.....oh.......and again......for those who pretended not to understand the first attempt at this.........this does not mean for a militia....it is an absolute individual right.....get it......."


There....that may need some work, since the gun grabbers will weasle around just about anything you try to do to stop them....but we'll start with this....

So you want people to have machine guns?

Machine Guns are not pistols or rifles. They are machine guns.

You are saying an m16 isn't a rifle?

The M16 is not full auto. Further if one makes a rifle fully auto it is now classified as a machine gun not a rifle. And Machine guns have been strictly limited since 1934. Did you know that you can legally buy a machine gun in 33 States? Only 17 ban them outright.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The M16 is not full auto.

The A1 is. The A2 and later are 3RB. 3RB is legally considered FA.

Further if one makes a rifle fully auto it is now classified as a machine gun not a rifle

Legally yes. In real terms, it is an assault rifle, which is a subset of rifles.

 

[2aguy]

If one carries a gun, they're looking for an opportunity to use it. That is the main reason to carry a gun.

The people who are looking for an opportunity to use a gun are already carrying a gun illegally.....law abiding, good people do not carry a gun to use it....they carry a gun on the remote chance that some liberal/criminal will attempt to rob, rape, stab, beat or murder them.......and until that happens the gun stays nice and snug in its holster.....

 

[2aguy]

That's incomplete and arguable but it does not take into consideration nutters working to make sure criminals, illegals, terrorists and the mentally ill have free access to any gun they want.

Actually, gun control ensured that the killers in France had guns....but the innocent magazine writers and patrons of the Kosher Deli had none.......