The Right To Bear Arms

[Rigby5]

[


Yeah, they won't like the other gun Rights groups....GOA and the 2nd Amendment foundation are more hard core than the NRA...

The NRA has become pussified. You can't count on them any more to look after our Constitutional right. With them nowadays it is all about not offending the Libtards.

I send my money to GOA now.

How exactly has the NRA become "pussified?"

It is not aggressive with the onslaught of attacks on our Constitutional right to keep and bear arms on the state level. They should be fighting these oppressive laws like we see in California and New York tooth and nail but I don't see them doing it. It has taken some pretty pussy positions on things like background checks. It was deplorable the way they gave in on bump stocks here in Florida and on the national level.

I can't trust them any more to protect my Constitutional rights.

Besides, they need to get the upper management in order. Some indications of corruption.

I'll give support to GOA.

Even though I am an extreme leftist, I tend to agree with you.
States also need to be restrained from infringing on individual rights.
But it is hard to call them "Constitutional" since the founders wrote the Bill of Rights badly, as just restrictions on federal abuse.
It is really more the Declaration of Independence that stresses individual rights.

Even though I could care less about bump stocks, you have a point about CA, NY, and FL violating their authority.

 

[Rigby5]

the ridiculous lie that the intent of the Bill of Rights is to make being liberal ‘illegal.’
.

Did you think our genius Republican Founders were worried about the Girl Scouts preventing free speech or about liberal big govt preventing it?

Do you think the 9 & 10 Amendments restricting govt to only the enumerated powers was because they feared ugly libcommies would emerge to concentrate all power in central govt???

See why we say liberalism is based in pure ignorance?

What we Conservatives are most concerned about is making this country a socialist shithole where the greedy welfare queens use the government to steal what they are unable to earn for themselves.

That is not very realistic.
The reality is that most of our tax money is being wasted on military spending.
We have thousands of expensive foreign deployments.
We spend as much on the military as the whole rest of the planet combined.

If you want a work requirement for welfare, that is fine.
But the reality is that welfare is a tiny portion of the budget, less than 10% for sure.
And a conservative should be against a budget deficit, what is stealing from future generations, to pay interest, except in rare emergencies.

And don't forget that socialism does not have to be done federally.
Socialism traditionally is best done locally and decentralized.

 

[Flash]

[

But it is hard to call them "Constitutional" since the founders wrote the Bill of Rights badly, .

For the security of a free state he right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed is very clear. Some people just interpret it badly.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The reality is that most of our tax money is being wasted on military spending.

Most of our tax money, by roughly a 2;1 margin, goes to entitlement spending.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Even though I am an extreme leftist, I tend to agree with you.

That is very interesting.

What I have found is that the horizontal political spectrum is not linear. It's circular. The farther left you go, the more right you become. It follows, and I am not surprised, that extreme the extreme left would agree with the extreme right on certain issues.

The vertical political spectrum, however, is linear, because that involves mutual duality. The more authoritarian one becomes, he necessarily becomes less libertarian, and vice versa.

States also need to be restrained from infringing on individual rights.
But it is hard to call them "Constitutional" since the founders wrote the Bill of Rights badly, as just restrictions on federal abuse.

I agree with this.

The 2nd Amendment was a limit on federal power and a reservation to the States.

States should also be restrained, but that would be via a different instrument, separate from the 2nd Amendment.

The 14th Amendment is also horribly written and unnecessarily broad. Because it is so horribly written, it actually has the textual effect of imposing the 2nd Amendment on States, even though the SCOTUS has never fully addressed that issue. At some point, I am sure they will be asked to do so.

.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

The reality is that most of our tax money is being wasted on military spending.

Most of our tax money, by roughly a 2;1 margin, goes to entitlement spending.

I agree that defense spending is not "most" but it is a very substantial portion, the burden to which we should not be obligated, given that a substantial portion of such defense spending is for the non-reimbursed security of other nations. If those nations would pay us for our services, we could afford a lot of the fancy "social" programs they enjoy at our expense. Maybe we could demand that those nations pay for a voluntary UHC system in America. Or, they could pay for and provide their own security. Either way.


.

 

[Flash]

The reality is that most of our tax money is being wasted on military spending.

Most of our tax money, by roughly a 2;1 margin, goes to entitlement spending.

I agree that defense spending is not "most" but it is a very substantial portion, the burden to which we should not be obligated, given that a substantial portion of such defense spending is for the non-reimbursed security of other nations. If those nations would pay us for our services, we could afford a lot of the fancy "social" programs they enjoy at our expense. Maybe we could demand that those nations pay for a voluntary UHC system in America. Or, they could pay for and provide their own security. Either way.


.

We have $4.8 trillion annual Federal budget The recent defense budget was less than $.8 trillion.

There a re a few things we should provide at a federal level. Defense, courts, care for our veterans, State Department etc. I don't even mind paying a Federal and state tax on fuel in order to fund the roads.

What is wrong is the trillions spent on various forms of welfare and wasted projects.

Welfare is more than just food stamps, Obamaphones and Obamacare subsidies. It is school lunches, subsidies, foreign aid, grants, bailouts and all those earmarks. It is bailing out GM to get the UAW support and giving money to Solyndra and subsidizing education to the states in order to get money to the greedy teacher's unions.

We don't need most of the cabinet Departments that we have now like Education and HUD.

We could have a great Federal government for about $1.5 trillion a year.

We sure as hell should not be giving one red cent to any Illegal especially providing schooling for their kids or free lunches.

 

[Rigby5]

[

But it is hard to call them "Constitutional" since the founders wrote the Bill of Rights badly, .

For the security of a free state he right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed is very clear. Some people just interpret it badly.

It is easy to interpret that as the right of a state to have its own armed militia.
I think the 4th and 5th amendment are more specific about individual rights needing arms.
But the problem with calling a right to be "constitutional" is that it then sounds like they are created and granted by the constitution, and that can not be.
Rights have to precede the constitution, and be the reason why writing a constitution is possible.
If they were granted by the constitution, then they would be arbitrary privileges that could just as easily be rescinded.
But rights are fundamental, and can not be rescinded legally, in a democratic republic.

 

[Rigby5]

The reality is that most of our tax money is being wasted on military spending.

Most of our tax money, by roughly a 2;1 margin, goes to entitlement spending.

Entitlement includes things like social security and unemployment, which is NOT supposed to be government money in the first place.
That is why entitlements are not supposed to even be part of the annual budget process.
It is not spending when you repay money put into things like social security or unemployment insurance.

And when you include interest on past military spending, that is more like 60% of discretionary spending.
Social services are less than 10%.

 

[Rigby5]

Even though I am an extreme leftist, I tend to agree with you.

That is very interesting.

What I have found is that the horizontal political spectrum is not linear. It's circular. The farther left you go, the more right you become. It follows, and I am not surprised, that extreme the extreme left would agree with the extreme right on certain issues.

The vertical political spectrum, however, is linear, because that involves mutual duality. The more authoritarian one becomes, he necessarily becomes less libertarian, and vice versa.

States also need to be restrained from infringing on individual rights.
But it is hard to call them "Constitutional" since the founders wrote the Bill of Rights badly, as just restrictions on federal abuse.

I agree with this.

The 2nd Amendment was a limit on federal power and a reservation to the States.

States should also be restrained, but that would be via a different instrument, separate from the 2nd Amendment.

The 14th Amendment is also horribly written and unnecessarily broad. Because it is so horribly written, it actually has the textual effect of imposing the 2nd Amendment on States, even though the SCOTUS has never fully addressed that issue. At some point, I am sure they will be asked to do so.

.

I tend to agree as well that the current interpretation of 14th amendment has caused the 2nd to be correctly incorporated as an individual right, even though mostly ignored.

With vertical political spectrum, the right wing Libertarians want minimal government coercion, just like the left wing anarchists. Both believe in human nature in an idealistic way. And I also tend to agree with them to a point.

The difference is I fear large capitalist corporations, and right wingers instead fear large corrupt central government.
My solution is local socialism, instead of large, distant, and centralized.

 

[Rigby5]

The reality is that most of our tax money is being wasted on military spending.

Most of our tax money, by roughly a 2;1 margin, goes to entitlement spending.

I agree that defense spending is not "most" but it is a very substantial portion, the burden to which we should not be obligated, given that a substantial portion of such defense spending is for the non-reimbursed security of other nations. If those nations would pay us for our services, we could afford a lot of the fancy "social" programs they enjoy at our expense. Maybe we could demand that those nations pay for a voluntary UHC system in America. Or, they could pay for and provide their own security. Either way.


.

We have $4.8 trillion annual Federal budget The recent defense budget was less than $.8 trillion.

There a re a few things we should provide at a federal level. Defense, courts, care for our veterans, State Department etc. I don't even mind paying a Federal and state tax on fuel in order to fund the roads.

What is wrong is the trillions spent on various forms of welfare and wasted projects.

Welfare is more than just food stamps, Obamaphones and Obamacare subsidies. It is school lunches, subsidies, foreign aid, grants, bailouts and all those earmarks. It is bailing out GM to get the UAW support and giving money to Solyndra and subsidizing education to the states in order to get money to the greedy teacher's unions.

We don't need most of the cabinet Departments that we have now like Education and HUD.

We could have a great Federal government for about $1.5 trillion a year.

We sure as hell should not be giving one red cent to any Illegal especially providing schooling for their kids or free lunches.

That is not correct.
It is wrong to include things like social security or unemployment insurance into the budget.
It is not federal money so it is not federal spending.
It is your personal money being paid back to you.
It is not discretiionary, so should never be included in budget considerations.
Here is the real budget.

 

[Rigby5]

The reality is that most of our tax money is being wasted on military spending.

Most of our tax money, by roughly a 2;1 margin, goes to entitlement spending.

I agree that defense spending is not "most" but it is a very substantial portion, the burden to which we should not be obligated, given that a substantial portion of such defense spending is for the non-reimbursed security of other nations. If those nations would pay us for our services, we could afford a lot of the fancy "social" programs they enjoy at our expense. Maybe we could demand that those nations pay for a voluntary UHC system in America. Or, they could pay for and provide their own security. Either way.


.

We have $4.8 trillion annual Federal budget The recent defense budget was less than $.8 trillion.

There a re a few things we should provide at a federal level. Defense, courts, care for our veterans, State Department etc. I don't even mind paying a Federal and state tax on fuel in order to fund the roads.

What is wrong is the trillions spent on various forms of welfare and wasted projects.

Welfare is more than just food stamps, Obamaphones and Obamacare subsidies. It is school lunches, subsidies, foreign aid, grants, bailouts and all those earmarks. It is bailing out GM to get the UAW support and giving money to Solyndra and subsidizing education to the states in order to get money to the greedy teacher's unions.

We don't need most of the cabinet Departments that we have now like Education and HUD.

We could have a great Federal government for about $1.5 trillion a year.

We sure as hell should not be giving one red cent to any Illegal especially providing schooling for their kids or free lunches.

It is totally wrong to include things like food stamps because people have to buy food stamps and are only getting a subsidy on 40% or less.
It is wrong to include foreign aid, since that actually is defense spending or for local US commercial interests.
It is wrong to include PELL grants since the universities are used for free federal research then.
It is wrong to include bailouts to auto industries or banks, because that was all paid back.
It was wrong to include Solyndra because we should not allow China to get a monopoly on strategic technology.
Teachers are way under paid.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Entitlement includes things like social security and unemployment, which is NOT supposed to be government money in the first place.
That is why entitlements are not supposed to even be part of the annual budget process.

Never-the-less, most of our tax money, by roughly a 2;1 margin, goes to entitlement spending

FY2018-2009 (10 years)
Total spending: $36,785.8B
Discretionary: $12,408.1B (33.7%)
Entitlement: $24377.7B (66.2%)
Defense: 6$,318.8B (17.1%)
www.cbo.gov/publication/55151

 

[Rigby5]

Entitlement includes things like social security and unemployment, which is NOT supposed to be government money in the first place.
That is why entitlements are not supposed to even be part of the annual budget process.

Never-the-less, most of our tax money, by roughly a 2;1 margin, goes to entitlement spending

FY2018-2009 (10 years)
Total spending: $36,785.8B
Discretionary: $12,408.1B (33.7%)
Entitlement: $24377.7B (66.2%)
Defense: 6$,318.8B (17.1%)
www.cbo.gov/publication/55151

But you still do not get the point.
Entitlement spending like Social Security does not cost anything at all!
The US treasury counts Social Security as INCOME, not debt because it constantly brings in MORE than it costs.
Entitlements are self funding.
They pay for themselves.
You do not pay for them through income taxes.
The only part of the federal budget that we have to pay for is the discretionary part, and that is almost all military.
Over the past 50 years, Social Security has been funding most of the federal projects, like wars, space exploration, etc., because it has been running a surplus.
It won't be for a few years yet that Social Security will be running a deficit and need addtionial money from the general fund to pay for its output.

Social security has always been an income so far. But it is projected to be a slight deficit from 2020 to 2040, for awhile.

 

[M14 Shooter]

But you still do not get the point.
Entitlement spending like Social Security does not cost anything at all!

The funding for entitlement spending derives directly from taxes, and thus, is "tax money" - YOUR term:

The reality is that most of our tax money is being wasted on military spending.

And so, your statement has no basis in fact.

The only part of the federal budget that we have to pay for is the discretionary part, and that is almost all military.

This statement is also false.

 

[Rigby5]

But you still do not get the point.
Entitlement spending like Social Security does not cost anything at all!

The funding for entitlement spending derives directly from taxes, and thus, is "tax money" - YOUR term:

The reality is that most of our tax money is being wasted on military spending.

And so, your statement has no basis in fact.

The only part of the federal budget that we have to pay for is the discretionary part, and that is almost all military.

This statement is also false.

No, entitlement programs like Social Security have their own funding source, so are self funding.
In effect you are just getting your own money back, with 3% interest, 30 years or so later.
The reality is that it is a pay as you go system, so that the money paid in by one person immediately gets paid out to someone else, but there has always been a surplus.
The whole federal government has been floated by borrowing from the Social Security surplus since it was invented, over half a century ago.

The other large nondiscretionary payment is for interest on the national debt, and that is entirely military spending.
Once you include the social services that are actually VA, GIBill, etc., it is clear the military actually costs way more than 50% of our national spending. It is really more like 75%.

 

[M14 Shooter]

No, entitlement programs like Social Security have their own funding source, so are self funding.

The programs are funded by taxes, and thus, their expenditures are tax money being spent.
The numbers simply do not lie: Your statement is false.

 

[Rigby5]

No, entitlement programs like Social Security have their own funding source, so are self funding.

The programs are funded by taxes, and thus, their expenditures are tax money being spent.
The numbers simply do not lie: Your statement is false.

Social Security and unemployment are funded by taxes, but FICA is not income tax.
Half is paid by the employer, and you get back more than you paid in.
And it runs a surplus.
So it is not a cost, but an income to government.

 

[M14 Shooter]

No, entitlement programs like Social Security have their own funding source, so are self funding.

The programs are funded by taxes, and thus, their expenditures are tax money being spent.
The numbers simply do not lie: Your statement is false.

Social Security and unemployment are funded by taxes...

Yes. That's what I said:
The programs are funded by taxes, and thus, their expenditures are tax money being spent.

Your statement has been demonstrated false

 

[Flash]

The reality is that most of our tax money is being wasted on military spending.

Most of our tax money, by roughly a 2;1 margin, goes to entitlement spending.

I agree that defense spending is not "most" but it is a very substantial portion, the burden to which we should not be obligated, given that a substantial portion of such defense spending is for the non-reimbursed security of other nations. If those nations would pay us for our services, we could afford a lot of the fancy "social" programs they enjoy at our expense. Maybe we could demand that those nations pay for a voluntary UHC system in America. Or, they could pay for and provide their own security. Either way.


.

We have $4.8 trillion annual Federal budget The recent defense budget was less than $.8 trillion.

There a re a few things we should provide at a federal level. Defense, courts, care for our veterans, State Department etc. I don't even mind paying a Federal and state tax on fuel in order to fund the roads.

What is wrong is the trillions spent on various forms of welfare and wasted projects.

Welfare is more than just food stamps, Obamaphones and Obamacare subsidies. It is school lunches, subsidies, foreign aid, grants, bailouts and all those earmarks. It is bailing out GM to get the UAW support and giving money to Solyndra and subsidizing education to the states in order to get money to the greedy teacher's unions.

We don't need most of the cabinet Departments that we have now like Education and HUD.

We could have a great Federal government for about $1.5 trillion a year.

We sure as hell should not be giving one red cent to any Illegal especially providing schooling for their kids or free lunches.

That is not correct.
It is wrong to include things like social security or unemployment insurance into the budget.
It is not federal money so it is not federal spending.
It is your personal money being paid back to you.
It is not discretiionary, so should never be included in budget considerations.
Here is the real budget.

You are confused Moon Bat.

"What the stupid Moon Bats call non discretionary" is just as wasteful as most discretionary.

We spend a ridiculous $4.8 trillion a year for this filthy ass Federal government. . More than the GDP of all but a few countries of the countries on earth. Disgusting, isn't it?

In 2014 Ron Paul came up with a simple plan to cut one trillion dollars a year. In that budget SS and Medicare were maintained, the defense budget grew and most of the filthy welfare programs were intact. The Libtards couldn't even do that.