The Russians want a Civil War in the US

It might take a civil war. Maybe it should. We have taken unity just about as far as it will go.
tree of liberty and all, right?
I really dont see any other way...the other side cant be reasoned with and refuses any compromise.
Look no disrespect but I'm from the South and believe me the last Civil War didn't solve much of anything.
it exacerbated things IMO
I personally think that slavery was on its way out anyway and that war was fought on behalf of other interests
 
They want there to be a deep divide among us. They want us not to listen to each other. They want the level of political discourse to be on a par with a banana republic. They want gridlock in Washington. They want us to think that our fellow Americans are evil and worth fighting.

What do you want? Want to fight back against what the Russians want? Who cares if there was collusion, these people WISH US HARM. Fight back. Don't give them what they want.

Your first paragraph described Trump&Co accurately! And we do need to hold both Putin and Trump accountable, the former for an act of aggression and the latter for treason.
Honestly treason is a massive overstatement. What we have here, when you take away the knee jerk reflexivity of the left in attacking him and the right in defending him, is someone who was unprepared for the office and so is making and has made the kind of mistakes that shoot himself in the foot. It isn't intentional I believe it is merely clumsiness. He will either learn or he won't be re elected because at a certain point even the Trump Worshippers will abandon him. The only thing I really fear is a centrist Democratic candidacy. Otherwise he gets re elected.

Thoughtful and thought provoking post. I agree 100% that Trump is unfit to be POTUS, and add to that he will not learn from his mistakes, when his mistakes are exposed he blames others.

Notice I did not name names, I stated Trump&Co engaged in treason; Trump because the buck stops with him, but as we all know, and Pols seem to forget, the cover up is the issue now.

From Pence on down the effort to deny any wrong doing is done to obstruct justice which is necessary to make the claim I did; the trier of fact will determine which each member of the Administration, and the inner circle did which is sufficient to sustain culpability.
I don't think he is unfit, just not yet tuned in to the way an administration has to jump over certain hurdles. He is trying to run right through the hurdles without jumping. That never gets you to the tape. He is not unfit, merely uninformed.

And I think you needlessly conflate "obstruction " with people just being political and not admitting mistakes. Politicians rarely admit mistakes. Clintons didnt. Dubya didn't.

The fact remains that the immaturity of this administration is threatening to create a culture of corruption that is being entirely overlooked. This might end up the most corrupt administration since Ulysseys Grant. I think President Trump equates self with with money and he appears hellbent on using his presidency to benefit his family. People --- good conservative people ---- in the government seem afraid to call him on some of the more egregious examples. And his sycophants have the attitude that "if it isn't illegal it isn't a problem".

Having said all that he could work out fine. I didn't support Rockefeller in 68 (I supported Nixon who was actually a good politician trapped in a man of questionable character) but President Trump is a lot (but not entirely) what Nelson would've been like as President. Hope they don't succumb to the same Siren.

A POTUS (should) speak for all citizens, Trump does not, and that is one reason I believe he is unfit.
It's tautological. A president speaks for all of us. Even if he's someone I wouldn't leave alone with my daughter. Same was true of Bill Clinton. I would keep my daughter a mile and a half away from them both. But he is our president. As they say in the service "respect the uniform if not the man."
 
They want there to be a deep divide among us. They want us not to listen to each other. They want the level of political discourse to be on a par with a banana republic. They want gridlock in Washington. They want us to think that our fellow Americans are evil and worth fighting.

What do you want? Want to fight back against what the Russians want? Who cares if there was collusion, these people WISH US HARM. Fight back. Don't give them what they want.

You meant to say the Democrats want a civil war, right?

No Frank, that's what your comrades told you, I write what I mean not what I'm told to write.

My Comrades...LOL

bc0a9-borisnatashatrumptower.jpg
 
It might take a civil war. Maybe it should. We have taken unity just about as far as it will go.
tree of liberty and all, right?
I really dont see any other way...the other side cant be reasoned with and refuses any compromise.
Look no disrespect but I'm from the South and believe me the last Civil War didn't solve much of anything.
it exacerbated things IMO
I personally think that slavery was on its way out anyway and that war was fought on behalf of other interests
Agree. It was an economic dispute that impacted culture. Southerners were and are convinced that it was solely a war against their lifestyle and culture. I hear the same thing out of people in the left/right divide today. And again today it is an economic battle of the haves versus the have nots and the haves are convincing the have nots that it's really about culture.
 
It might take a civil war. Maybe it should. We have taken unity just about as far as it will go.
tree of liberty and all, right?
I really dont see any other way...the other side cant be reasoned with and refuses any compromise.

You better think before you act, unless your goal is to be the next Timothy McVeigh. Hopefully you have more sense than that the drunk cat lover, and your response to that fool is sarcastic.
 
They want there to be a deep divide among us. They want us not to listen to each other. They want the level of political discourse to be on a par with a banana republic. They want gridlock in Washington. They want us to think that our fellow Americans are evil and worth fighting.

What do you want? Want to fight back against what the Russians want? Who cares if there was collusion, these people WISH US HARM. Fight back. Don't give them what they want.

You meant to say the Democrats want a civil war, right?

No Frank, that's what your comrades told you, I write what I mean not what I'm told to write.

My Comrades...LOL

bc0a9-borisnatashatrumptower.jpg

I'll pit Rocky and Bullwinkle against your kind any day.
 
It might take a civil war. Maybe it should. We have taken unity just about as far as it will go.
tree of liberty and all, right?
I really dont see any other way...the other side cant be reasoned with and refuses any compromise.

You better think before you act, unless your goal is to be the next Timothy McVeigh. Hopefully you have more sense than that the drunk cat lover, and your response to that fool is sarcastic.
Tim Mcveigh was a patsy...those bodies in OKC belong at the clinton admin's doorstep. Furthermore, that to the side, everyone should have a line in the sand that they wont let the powers that be cross. where that line is, is up to the individual, but there very well could be a time where the soap box, ballot box and jury box are impotent, and the cartridge box is the only answer.
 
They want there to be a deep divide among us. They want us not to listen to each other. They want the level of political discourse to be on a par with a banana republic. They want gridlock in Washington. They want us to think that our fellow Americans are evil and worth fighting.

What do you want? Want to fight back against what the Russians want? Who cares if there was collusion, these people WISH US HARM. Fight back. Don't give them what they want.


Yea, the left has been working on that for a long time. They are the ones who divide people into groups and then tell each one that the others are out to get them. They have divided classes. They have divided races. Dictators don't stand a chance when people are united. Tyrants need victims, anger, jealously, fear, hatred, and a lack of morality.

That is why they use the language they do. They've convinced minorities that all on the right and cops are out to get them. They've convinced the poor that the financially stable people want to see them starving in the streets. They've convinced the indoctrinated bleeding hearts that capitalists are out to destroy the planet. They've convinced many that only government can make their lives whole. They offer everything that some believe they need and all they have to do is give up liberty to make it happen.
 
They want there to be a deep divide among us. They want us not to listen to each other. They want the level of political discourse to be on a par with a banana republic. They want gridlock in Washington. They want us to think that our fellow Americans are evil and worth fighting.

What do you want? Want to fight back against what the Russians want? Who cares if there was collusion, these people WISH US HARM. Fight back. Don't give them what they want.

Dude, that must have been a good hit.
 
They want there to be a deep divide among us. They want us not to listen to each other. They want the level of political discourse to be on a par with a banana republic. They want gridlock in Washington. They want us to think that our fellow Americans are evil and worth fighting.

What do you want? Want to fight back against what the Russians want? Who cares if there was collusion, these people WISH US HARM. Fight back. Don't give them what they want.


Yea, the left has been working on that for a long time. They are the ones who divide people into groups and then tell each one that the others are out to get them. They have divided classes. They have divided races. Dictators don't stand a chance when people are united. Tyrants need victims, anger, jealously, fear, hatred, and a lack of morality.

That is why they use the language they do. They've convinced minorities that all on the right and cops are out to get them. They've convinced the poor that the financially stable people want to see them starving in the streets. They've convinced the indoctrinated bleeding hearts that capitalists are out to destroy the planet. They've convinced many that only government can make their lives whole. They offer everything that some believe they need and all they have to do is give up liberty to make it happen.
Sounds like you believe the only preachers of divisiveness are on one side. Happily they coincidentally are on the opposite side from you. Convenient way to keep the divisiveness going.
 
Your first paragraph described Trump&Co accurately! And we do need to hold both Putin and Trump accountable, the former for an act of aggression and the latter for treason.
Honestly treason is a massive overstatement. What we have here, when you take away the knee jerk reflexivity of the left in attacking him and the right in defending him, is someone who was unprepared for the office and so is making and has made the kind of mistakes that shoot himself in the foot. It isn't intentional I believe it is merely clumsiness. He will either learn or he won't be re elected because at a certain point even the Trump Worshippers will abandon him. The only thing I really fear is a centrist Democratic candidacy. Otherwise he gets re elected.

Thoughtful and thought provoking post. I agree 100% that Trump is unfit to be POTUS, and add to that he will not learn from his mistakes, when his mistakes are exposed he blames others.

Notice I did not name names, I stated Trump&Co engaged in treason; Trump because the buck stops with him, but as we all know, and Pols seem to forget, the cover up is the issue now.

From Pence on down the effort to deny any wrong doing is done to obstruct justice which is necessary to make the claim I did; the trier of fact will determine which each member of the Administration, and the inner circle did which is sufficient to sustain culpability.
I don't think he is unfit, just not yet tuned in to the way an administration has to jump over certain hurdles. He is trying to run right through the hurdles without jumping. That never gets you to the tape. He is not unfit, merely uninformed.

And I think you needlessly conflate "obstruction " with people just being political and not admitting mistakes. Politicians rarely admit mistakes. Clintons didnt. Dubya didn't.

The fact remains that the immaturity of this administration is threatening to create a culture of corruption that is being entirely overlooked. This might end up the most corrupt administration since Ulysseys Grant. I think President Trump equates self with with money and he appears hellbent on using his presidency to benefit his family. People --- good conservative people ---- in the government seem afraid to call him on some of the more egregious examples. And his sycophants have the attitude that "if it isn't illegal it isn't a problem".

Having said all that he could work out fine. I didn't support Rockefeller in 68 (I supported Nixon who was actually a good politician trapped in a man of questionable character) but President Trump is a lot (but not entirely) what Nelson would've been like as President. Hope they don't succumb to the same Siren.

A POTUS (should) speak for all citizens, Trump does not, and that is one reason I believe he is unfit.
It's tautological. A president speaks for all of us. Even if he's someone I wouldn't leave alone with my daughter. Same was true of Bill Clinton. I would keep my daughter a mile and a half away from them both. But he is our president. As they say in the service "respect the uniform if not the man."

Trump speaks for Trump, there is nothing he says, tweets or issues in EO's that are not first evaluated by him as to how they will benefit him.

I've said and written many times, a non leader considers, "how will this impact me?" before ever making a decision. In the abstract you are correct, in reality Trump speaks only for himself, the rest of us are burdensome inconveniences here to please and serve him.
 
Honestly treason is a massive overstatement. What we have here, when you take away the knee jerk reflexivity of the left in attacking him and the right in defending him, is someone who was unprepared for the office and so is making and has made the kind of mistakes that shoot himself in the foot. It isn't intentional I believe it is merely clumsiness. He will either learn or he won't be re elected because at a certain point even the Trump Worshippers will abandon him. The only thing I really fear is a centrist Democratic candidacy. Otherwise he gets re elected.

Thoughtful and thought provoking post. I agree 100% that Trump is unfit to be POTUS, and add to that he will not learn from his mistakes, when his mistakes are exposed he blames others.

Notice I did not name names, I stated Trump&Co engaged in treason; Trump because the buck stops with him, but as we all know, and Pols seem to forget, the cover up is the issue now.

From Pence on down the effort to deny any wrong doing is done to obstruct justice which is necessary to make the claim I did; the trier of fact will determine which each member of the Administration, and the inner circle did which is sufficient to sustain culpability.
I don't think he is unfit, just not yet tuned in to the way an administration has to jump over certain hurdles. He is trying to run right through the hurdles without jumping. That never gets you to the tape. He is not unfit, merely uninformed.

And I think you needlessly conflate "obstruction " with people just being political and not admitting mistakes. Politicians rarely admit mistakes. Clintons didnt. Dubya didn't.

The fact remains that the immaturity of this administration is threatening to create a culture of corruption that is being entirely overlooked. This might end up the most corrupt administration since Ulysseys Grant. I think President Trump equates self with with money and he appears hellbent on using his presidency to benefit his family. People --- good conservative people ---- in the government seem afraid to call him on some of the more egregious examples. And his sycophants have the attitude that "if it isn't illegal it isn't a problem".

Having said all that he could work out fine. I didn't support Rockefeller in 68 (I supported Nixon who was actually a good politician trapped in a man of questionable character) but President Trump is a lot (but not entirely) what Nelson would've been like as President. Hope they don't succumb to the same Siren.

A POTUS (should) speak for all citizens, Trump does not, and that is one reason I believe he is unfit.
It's tautological. A president speaks for all of us. Even if he's someone I wouldn't leave alone with my daughter. Same was true of Bill Clinton. I would keep my daughter a mile and a half away from them both. But he is our president. As they say in the service "respect the uniform if not the man."

Trump speaks for Trump, there is nothing he says, tweets or issues in EO's that are not first evaluated by him as to how they will benefit him.

I've said and written many times, a non leader considers, "how will this impact me?" before ever making a decision. In the abstract you are correct, in reality Trump speaks only for himself, the rest of us are burdensome inconveniences here to please and serve him.
At the end of the day he's our guy. If he is taking positions I do t agree with or acting in ways I don't relish then I can criticize him but in the face of foreign enemies I will always take his side.
 
They want there to be a deep divide among us. They want us not to listen to each other. They want the level of political discourse to be on a par with a banana republic. They want gridlock in Washington. They want us to think that our fellow Americans are evil and worth fighting.

What do you want? Want to fight back against what the Russians want? Who cares if there was collusion, these people WISH US HARM. Fight back. Don't give them what they want.

Your first paragraph described Trump&Co accurately! And we do need to hold both Putin and Trump accountable, the former for an act of aggression and the latter for treason.

What act of aggression? What treason?

Why can't you show your cards when called?

a. The matter that is under investigation by Mueller
b. Providing aid and comfort to Russian's in their act(s) of aggression

Cool, show us your proof, if not you're one more fucking leftwing liar.
 
Honestly treason is a massive overstatement. What we have here, when you take away the knee jerk reflexivity of the left in attacking him and the right in defending him, is someone who was unprepared for the office and so is making and has made the kind of mistakes that shoot himself in the foot. It isn't intentional I believe it is merely clumsiness. He will either learn or he won't be re elected because at a certain point even the Trump Worshippers will abandon him. The only thing I really fear is a centrist Democratic candidacy. Otherwise he gets re elected.

Thoughtful and thought provoking post. I agree 100% that Trump is unfit to be POTUS, and add to that he will not learn from his mistakes, when his mistakes are exposed he blames others.

Notice I did not name names, I stated Trump&Co engaged in treason; Trump because the buck stops with him, but as we all know, and Pols seem to forget, the cover up is the issue now.

From Pence on down the effort to deny any wrong doing is done to obstruct justice which is necessary to make the claim I did; the trier of fact will determine which each member of the Administration, and the inner circle did which is sufficient to sustain culpability.
I don't think he is unfit, just not yet tuned in to the way an administration has to jump over certain hurdles. He is trying to run right through the hurdles without jumping. That never gets you to the tape. He is not unfit, merely uninformed.

And I think you needlessly conflate "obstruction " with people just being political and not admitting mistakes. Politicians rarely admit mistakes. Clintons didnt. Dubya didn't.

The fact remains that the immaturity of this administration is threatening to create a culture of corruption that is being entirely overlooked. This might end up the most corrupt administration since Ulysseys Grant. I think President Trump equates self with with money and he appears hellbent on using his presidency to benefit his family. People --- good conservative people ---- in the government seem afraid to call him on some of the more egregious examples. And his sycophants have the attitude that "if it isn't illegal it isn't a problem".

Having said all that he could work out fine. I didn't support Rockefeller in 68 (I supported Nixon who was actually a good politician trapped in a man of questionable character) but President Trump is a lot (but not entirely) what Nelson would've been like as President. Hope they don't succumb to the same Siren.

A POTUS (should) speak for all citizens, Trump does not, and that is one reason I believe he is unfit.
It's tautological. A president speaks for all of us. Even if he's someone I wouldn't leave alone with my daughter. Same was true of Bill Clinton. I would keep my daughter a mile and a half away from them both. But he is our president. As they say in the service "respect the uniform if not the man."

Trump speaks for Trump, there is nothing he says, tweets or issues in EO's that are not first evaluated by him as to how they will benefit him.

I've said and written many times, a non leader considers, "how will this impact me?" before ever making a decision. In the abstract you are correct, in reality Trump speaks only for himself, the rest of us are burdensome inconveniences here to please and serve him.

You poor pompous know it all, it must be very lonely for you....you know basking in your own greatness and yet being so depressed knowing that if only the world would listen to you it would be such a better place. You pompous half wit.
 
They want there to be a deep divide among us. They want us not to listen to each other. They want the level of political discourse to be on a par with a banana republic. They want gridlock in Washington. They want us to think that our fellow Americans are evil and worth fighting.

What do you want? Want to fight back against what the Russians want? Who cares if there was collusion, these people WISH US HARM. Fight back. Don't give them what they want.

Your first paragraph described Trump&Co accurately! And we do need to hold both Putin and Trump accountable, the former for an act of aggression and the latter for treason.

What act of aggression? What treason?

Why can't you show your cards when called?

a. The matter that is under investigation by Mueller
b. Providing aid and comfort to Russian's in their act(s) of aggression

Cool, show us your proof, if not you're one more fucking leftwing liar.

We (both of us) are in the dark, proof requires an investigation which will either find criminal activity or exculpate criminal activity. If the former and indictment and in the latter a close of the investigation; then a pretrial and if held to answer a full trial before a judge or jury. Only then will my claim be decided as true or false.

Of course if the investigation rises to the level of the Office of President, it will be decided by the House and the Senate will be the trier of facts.

Given my background and experience I was trained to make no judgment until all interviews were conducted, twice, and all documents were obtained by subpoena or discovery.

I'm not bound by perjury, nor was my comment made under oath. That said, the comments made by Trump&Co before they secured legal counsel allowed me to be less circumspect that if I were still employed.

Speaking of damn liars, have you considered this:

While in Moscow for the Miss Universe pageant in November 2013, Donald Trump entered into a formal business deal with Aras Agalarov, a Russian oligarch close to Vladimir Putin, to construct a Trump Tower in the Russian capital. He later assigned his son, Donald Trump Jr., to oversee the project, according to Rob Goldstone, the British publicist who arranged the controversial 2016 meeting between the younger Trump and a Kremlin-linked lawyer.

Trump has dismissed the idea he had any business deals in Russia, saying at one point last October, “I have nothing to do with Russia.”
New details emerge on Moscow real estate deal that led to the Trump-Kremlin alliance

And this,

More evidence shows Obamacare is getting healthier, but will that stop the GOP wrecking crew?

Study: ObamaCare market 'stabilizing,' not collapsing
 
They want there to be a deep divide among us. They want us not to listen to each other. They want the level of political discourse to be on a par with a banana republic. They want gridlock in Washington. They want us to think that our fellow Americans are evil and worth fighting.

What do you want? Want to fight back against what the Russians want? Who cares if there was collusion, these people WISH US HARM. Fight back. Don't give them what they want.

Your first paragraph described Trump&Co accurately! And we do need to hold both Putin and Trump accountable, the former for an act of aggression and the latter for treason.

What act of aggression? What treason?

Why can't you show your cards when called?

a. The matter that is under investigation by Mueller
b. Providing aid and comfort to Russian's in their act(s) of aggression

Cool, show us your proof, if not you're one more fucking leftwing liar.

We (both of us) are in the dark, proof requires an investigation which will either find criminal activity or exculpate criminal activity. If the former and indictment and in the latter a close of the investigation; then a pretrial and if held to answer a full trial before a judge or jury. Only then will my claim be decided as true or false.

Of course if the investigation rises to the level of the Office of President, it will be decided by the House and the Senate will be the trier of facts.

Given my background and experience I was trained to make no judgment until all interviews were conducted, twice, and all documents were obtained by subpoena or discovery.

I'm not bound by perjury, nor was my comment made under oath. That said, the comments made by Trump&Co before they secured legal counsel allowed me to be less circumspect that if I were still employed.

Speaking of damn liars, have you considered this:

While in Moscow for the Miss Universe pageant in November 2013, Donald Trump entered into a formal business deal with Aras Agalarov, a Russian oligarch close to Vladimir Putin, to construct a Trump Tower in the Russian capital. He later assigned his son, Donald Trump Jr., to oversee the project, according to Rob Goldstone, the British publicist who arranged the controversial 2016 meeting between the younger Trump and a Kremlin-linked lawyer.

Trump has dismissed the idea he had any business deals in Russia, saying at one point last October, “I have nothing to do with Russia.”
New details emerge on Moscow real estate deal that led to the Trump-Kremlin alliance

And this,

More evidence shows Obamacare is getting healthier, but will that stop the GOP wrecking crew?

Study: ObamaCare market 'stabilizing,' not collapsing

Here let me help you, you and Trump are both liars. All politicians and partisans lie, that includes you.
 
Civil war is inevitable unless we humble ourselves and repent of our sins. We need to return to the Lord.

We will destroy each other otherwise.

Liberals do not believe in God. They are atheists.
A dear friend of mine is on our Church Council. He is a liberal. He is not an atheist. Ditto his family. They are fellow Americans in my eyes, worthy of my love (and my attempts to sway them from their beliefs!)

That begs the question: what Church Council supports a party that also supports abortion which is against all Christian values?
Mine doesn't. My friend does. Both things can be true at the same time. The world isn't as two dimensional as some would like.

I was raised Catholic. Even went to an all Catholic school and I served as an alter boy.

To say your friend belongs to a party that's directly against Christian values is like saying your friend was a professional hit man or thief and also serves as a Church Council. Or is that too two dimensional for you?
 
Civil war is inevitable unless we humble ourselves and repent of our sins. We need to return to the Lord.

We will destroy each other otherwise.

Liberals do not believe in God. They are atheists.
A dear friend of mine is on our Church Council. He is a liberal. He is not an atheist. Ditto his family. They are fellow Americans in my eyes, worthy of my love (and my attempts to sway them from their beliefs!)

That begs the question: what Church Council supports a party that also supports abortion which is against all Christian values?
Mine doesn't. My friend does. Both things can be true at the same time. The world isn't as two dimensional as some would like.

I was raised Catholic. Even went to an all Catholic school and I served as an alter boy.

To say your friend belongs to a party that's directly against Christian values is like saying your friend was a professional hit man or thief and also serves as a Church Council. Or is that too two dimensional for you?

Lighten up, Pope Francis. I believe in freedom of religion, like the Constitution says. And I judge not, as the Bible teaches me. My friend has a good heart and is misguided in some of his policy beliefs. It is my job to help him see, not to condemn him and disassociate from him. Or is that too nuanced for you?

By the way, it's "altar."
 
Liberals do not believe in God. They are atheists.
A dear friend of mine is on our Church Council. He is a liberal. He is not an atheist. Ditto his family. They are fellow Americans in my eyes, worthy of my love (and my attempts to sway them from their beliefs!)

That begs the question: what Church Council supports a party that also supports abortion which is against all Christian values?
Mine doesn't. My friend does. Both things can be true at the same time. The world isn't as two dimensional as some would like.

I was raised Catholic. Even went to an all Catholic school and I served as an alter boy.

To say your friend belongs to a party that's directly against Christian values is like saying your friend was a professional hit man or thief and also serves as a Church Council. Or is that too two dimensional for you?

Lighten up, Pope Francis. I believe in freedom of religion, like the Constitution says. And I judge not, as the Bible teaches me. My friend has a good heart and is misguided in some of his policy beliefs. It is my job to help him see, not to condemn him and disassociate from him. Or is that too nuanced for you?

By the way, it's "altar."

That's fine and dandy. If you think your friend has a good heart, good for you. But that doesn't negate he supports a party that has opposing values to his religion, and that's hypocritical. And it has nothing to do with freedom of religion.
 

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